Myth Busters or your very own WRX Snopes

Admittedly, I have too much time on my hands this morning, but after reading a couple of posts in one of the ubiquitous "blades vs CB/GI" threads, I can't resist.

The Big Lies on WRX (& other boards).

1. Forged clubs are softer and feel better.

Back in the early 90's, the Ben Hogan golf company made the Edge GCD club in a forged model and a cast model. They were virtually identical (the cast model had about 1* more offset in the longer clubs). There were numerous tests done and I personally conducted a random, non-scientific test, as I owned both models. No one could consistently pick out the forged vs cast club.

There is nothing inherent in the construction process of forged vs cast, that makes forged clubs feel any softer than cast clubs. Anyone who's hit PING Ansers and PING I20's side by side can confirm that forged doesn't equal 'softer feel". It is all about head design, center of gravity, weight distribution, MOI, sound and a raft of other factors unrelated to the manufacturing process.

2. Blades are perfectly acceptable clubs for higher handicappers.

Of course they are, but only if you're more concerned about your ego and how you're perceived by other players. (Or don't care about your scores, you just love the feel.)

In general, CB/GI/SGI clubs are much more forgiving than traditional blades. How anyone can argue this truism, is beyond my comprehension.

3. Shaft stiffness is a critical and important club fitting parameter for the average golfer.

Maybe in a driver or perhaps even in fairway woods, but when it comes to irons, shaft stiffness just isn't very important.

http://www.golfwrx.c...o-help-you-all/

4. There are plenty of "good ball strikers" who have high handicaps because they can't chip or putt. (Or have "poor course management skills". How much management do you need if you're a good ball striker?)

The above has always been one of my favorites on WRX and other golf boards. This mystical person doesn't exist. It's illogical and a product of one's ego, attempting to alter reality.

If you're a "good ball striker", you should be hitting 70% of your fairways and have 60%-70% GIR. If you're good enough to do that, you're good enough to get the golfball in the hole in less than 80 strokes.

5. Putting and Short Game is the key to lower scores.

That old wive's tale has been perpetuated for years and I'll give Dave Pelz credit for being the evangelist in the forefront. It's nonsense and most any statistician can quote a zillion numbers to show it's not as important as we're lead to believe. WRX's own Richie Hunt has posted numerous times on the subject. That's not to say that "great putting" doesn't make a difference, but within the "normal range" for putting, it's not so important. For now, here are a few references:

http://www.golfchann...mps-short-game/

http://www.strikergo...your-golf-game/

http://www.geoffshac...short-game.html

http://www.golfmanna...icle.aspx?Id=54

6. Everyone needs to have custom fit clubs to play decent golf.

Hmmmm .... maybe I should stick with the BIG 5 Myths and leave 6-10 for another day.

Interesting post...definitely on track...just not sure where to...

Your right, you do have too much time on your hands, Sign of an old guy is getting up at 5:00 or earlier, having a mind full of stuff, then spending all the neccassary effort to put it down because there is nothing better to do.

Well written article, I happen to agree with everything you have said. I regularly get up before 5:00 am

[quote name='Gbyeball' timestamp='1391948046' post='8628219']
Your right, you do have too much time on your hands, Sign of an old guy is getting up at 5:00 or earlier, having a mind full of stuff, then spending gall the neccassary effort to put it down because there is nothing better to do.

Well written article, I happen to agree with everything you have said. I regularly get up before 5:00 am
[/quote]

I love when other old guys agree with me

I agree with you, too, and I'm not even that old! That being said, this thread is going to explode as all well-meaning skill level vs. level of club threads do.

Reverend!

[quote name='toc' timestamp='1391949827' post='8628279']
I agree with you, too, and I'm not even that old! That being said, this thread is going to explode as all well-meaning skill level vs. level of club threads do.
[/quote]

I have not a bit of doubt you're correct! Thanks for the support, it's nice to see the younger crowd awake so early in the morning

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1391950076' post='8628293']
[quote name='toc' timestamp='1391949827' post='8628279']
I agree with you, too, and I'm not even that old! That being said, this thread is going to explode as all well-meaning skill level vs. level of club threads do.
[/quote]

I have not a bit of doubt you're correct! Thanks for the support, it's nice to see the younger crowd awake so early in the morning
[/quote]

Hah well I'm not that young either (thirties). One of my kids had trouble sleeping last night so that's my excuse for my current consciousness. Well, that and I can cheer on our Olympians in sports in which we seem to have zero chance.

Hi Brian,

I get up early as well. Too bad it's so damn cold with too much snow on the ground, or I'd be at the course practicing/playing, or doing something. :-)

1. To me, a well struck golf shot with either one feels the same.

2. I have played three different sets of SGI clubs and failed abysmally with them. Couldn't hit them worth a damn. As to GI's vs. Blades, my scores are about the same. I hit the blades a bit shorter as the lofts are weaker. I also hit the blades out of the rough a bit better. Perhaps it's just me. As a 9.8 though I don't know if you would classify me as a higher handicapper. That said, I still feel like one. :-)

3. I believe stiffness in irons can make a difference, especially as you get to the lower lofted irons. And, the weight of the shafts is important as well.

4. I agree with this. A good ball striker would hit a lot of greens and find a lot of fairways. No high handicapper could possibly be a good ball striker.

5. I agree with this as well. While a good short game is important, if you're putting for a triple (because you hit two drives OB), it really doesn't help all that much. I always thought that old saw, "drive for show, and putt for dough", was a bit of a canard. Again, if you are trying to get up and down for a double or triple (because you can't keep your driver in play, or what have you), a good short game won't be that much of a help.

6. For me, a fitting is important. I can't play clubs off the rack. For example: +1-inch and 3º upright (give or take depending on the OEM).

Im up because I just got home from prison. I too agree with everything you said.

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1391950518' post='8628319']
Hi Brian,

I get up early as well. Too bad it's so damn cold with too much snow on the ground, or I'd be at the course practicing/playing, or doing something. :-)


6. For me, a fitting is important. I can't play clubs off the rack. For example: +1-inch and 3º upright (give or take depending on the OEM).
[/quote]

I'm the first to admit that a person with "unusual body dimensions" can benefit from custom specifications. Longer irons, more upright lies, larger pouch ... the usual stuff.

As to your preference for more traditional irons, I think it's all in your head ;-)

In general, agree with your posting. Not so much with #5, personally leave to many strokes on the course with suspect pitching/chipping skills. Agree wholeheartedly with # 6. After spending too much time reading the WRX, its a wonder I can even strike a golf ball without being fitted.

There is a direct correlation with one's age and time of awakening. The older you are, the earlier you get up. Also, 3 a.m. is a good time to post on the interwebs unimpeded by the mrs.

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1391951181' post='8628359']

Also, 3 a.m. is a good time to post on the interwebs unimpeded by the mrs.

[/quote]

I find that the earlier I post, the less I'm impeded by conventional wisdom and/or fear of attack by the masses

Im going to disagree with 3 and 6... the rest I agree (for the most part).

I was a self proclaimed "trial and error" guy with shafts for years... Had a real QUALITY fitting by a guy who really knew his stuff and took his time... just swapping out shafts in the same iron heads last season was NIGHT and DAY. No joke. The flight, weight, stiffness, bendprofile all make a difference for ANYONE (scratch to 20)

Last season I had my father (60 years old, 17 HCP) fitted driver to wedges- He was sooooo much more consistent. lie angles, length, shaft choice.. it all made a real difference


That said, I really like the thread.

I cant wait to see the responses.

[quote name='ladahl' timestamp='1391951434' post='8628373']

The flight, weight, stiffness, bendprofile all make a difference for ANYONE


That said, I really like the thread.

I cant wait to see the responses.

[/quote]

I agree with "flight, weight, bend profile (& as stiffness is applicable to the bend profile)". I don't think it's generally a make or break thing with irons, but I think it can have implications.

The natives will be waking up soon and I'll get pummeled by the "buy a new arrow" guys

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1391951723' post='8628385']
[quote name='ladahl' timestamp='1391951434' post='8628373']
The flight, weight, stiffness, bendprofile all make a difference for ANYONE


That said, I really like the thread.

I cant wait to see the responses.

[/quote]

I agree with "flight, weight, bend profile (& as stiffness is applicable to the bend profile)". I don't think it's generally a make or break thing with irons, but I think it can have implications.

The natives will be waking up soon and I'll get pummeled by the "buy a new arrow" guys
[/quote]

It'll be good... You're gonna get flamed! LOL

No, I like the thread... A good topic, for sure.

But, I think getting fit into the general correct shaft in the irons is HUGE.. at least it was for me... I've been much more accurate with my irons after getting PROPERLY fit into a shaft. #3 and #6 are staying on my list as "must do's" for anyone spending the $, why not get the shaft/lie/length correct for the same cost as off the rack standard?

[quote name='BrianL99']
If you're a "good ball striker", you should be hitting 70% of your fairways and have 60%-70% GIR.  If you're good enough to do that, you're good enough to get the golfball in the hole in less than 80 strokes.  
[/quote]
I was 47% fairways, and 40% GIR last year. Ugh, I've got a long way to go. Good news is maybe my short game isn't as crappy as I thought.

[quote name='Roody' timestamp='1391953194' post='8628473']
[quote name='BrianL99']
If you're a "good ball striker", you should be hitting 70% of your fairways and have 60%-70% GIR. If you're good enough to do that, you're good enough to get the golfball in the hole in less than 80 strokes.
[/quote]
I was 47% fairways, and 40% GIR last year. Ugh, I've got a long way to go. Good news is maybe my short game isn't as crappy as I thought.
[/quote]

I've been 70% fairways over the last 5 years & still only manage 33% GIR. Goes to prove that hitting fairways isn't always that important.

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1391950952' post='8628343']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1391950518' post='8628319']
Hi Brian,

I get up early as well. Too bad it's so damn cold with too much snow on the ground, or I'd be at the course practicing/playing, or doing something. :-)


6. For me, a fitting is important. I can't play clubs off the rack. For example: +1-inch and 3º upright (give or take depending on the OEM).
[/quote]

I'm the first to admit that a person with "unusual body dimensions" can benefit from custom specifications. Longer irons, more upright lies, larger pouch ... the usual stuff.

As to your preference for more traditional irons, I think it's all in your head ;-)
[/quote]

Golf is entirely in your head for most people who play with any regularity. If you don't believe something will work (clubs, swing, ball) it won't.

A little anecdotal evidence-

My buddy and I used to be about the same handicap (mid single digits).

For some reason, his driving ability has diminished significantly over the last few years despite lessons, new equipment, using 3 wood/5 wood/hybrids off the tee. He just can't consistently hit it as straight or as long as he once did. His approach game has stayed the same. He has a great short game and his short game and putting remain around scratch level.

I drive the ball pretty well. Our approach games are about the same. My short game and putting is mediocre, nowhere near as good as his.

His handicap is now about 10 strokes higher than mine.

It is clear to me that the current difference in our driving ability has led to a dramatic difference in our handicaps even those he maintains a much better short game than me. It is just too hard to make up strokes lost driving by getting up and down and sinking putts.

[list=1]
[*]love it. I actually prefer the feel of my i20s to a set of Mizuno MP59 (i think it was 59, whatever the current players cb is)
[*]Yes, SGI are more forgiving but the extent is often overrated. No club makes a terrible swing good, they just might keep you a bit more on line or only lose 5 yards on a bad strike instead of 10
[*]Yes and no.... depends on how you swing the club. Says so right in the article
[*]Always makes me laugh. They always throw away a lot of shots off the tee and green right? And they usually play blades and are told by everyone how pretty their swing is.
[*]Be careful with the source of the data. Your articles use PGA tour data, not normal amateurs. For tour players, their short games are already so advanced that other areas do become more important. Their short game is also hard to improve on when they're that good. Plus, every player has a weakness in their game that can be improved for a max benefit to score. Constantly targeting these will make them a better player. Like if you can't drive the ball, learn that, but once your decent maybe it'll be putting holding you back. Constantly re-evaluate your game to determine and work on the weakest area vs charging towards perfection in one.
[*]A proper fitting can help, but you can also learn to use what you got. Lot of pros out there from the older days who just learned from a club they picked up from somewhere vs today's extreme use of science. Also a big difference between going to Golfsmith to have a guy fit your whole set based off a 6 or 7 iron on a cart vs going to someone qualified to do a total dynamic fitting for every club
[/list]

Going to be an interesting thread.

Putting it in or near the fairway is a must for lower scores but so is chipping and putting. I lose more strokes around the green than I do from other areas.

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1391953881' post='8628521']
[quote name='Roody' timestamp='1391953194' post='8628473']
[quote name='BrianL99']
If you're a "good ball striker", you should be hitting 70% of your fairways and have 60%-70% GIR. If you're good enough to do that, you're good enough to get the golfball in the hole in less than 80 strokes.
[/quote]
I was 47% fairways, and 40% GIR last year. Ugh, I've got a long way to go. Good news is maybe my short game isn't as crappy as I thought.
[/quote]

I've been 70% fairways over the last 5 years & still only manage 33% GIR. Goes to prove that hitting fairways isn't always that important.
[/quote]

If you weren't in the fairway, you might have only been 20% gir...

Is no one going to address the ex con? Haha

But nice post, I agree with a lot of it!

I think in general the problem is that there are degrees of everything. Someone might say "blades are easier to hit then people think, i'm a 12 and i can hit them fine". Yes of course they are not impossible to hit. This is something that people don't know until they hit them. They can look pretty intimidating....i remember when i was younger people would tell me "hey you can't hit blades unless you're a pro!" and then make it sound like if you are a millimeter off the sweet spot the ball would just go 12 yards and die.

But then i hit them and it's like "oh, a well hit shot does the same as with any other club". Any golfer can hit blades and experience good shots. Of course it's also easy to struggle with them and keep saying "it's my swing, same thing would have happened with GI's". There are degrees of everything, GI's are going to be easier to hit then blades, by degrees. Those degrees are more important to some then others...those degrees are [i]unknown [/i]to some

I agree the "great ballstriker who is a 13" or whatever is just a really really rare, mythical creature. I have never met one in real life. Again it comes down to degrees, maybe that person thinks they are a great ballstriker, but they almost certainly are not. They likely don't know what a great ballstriker is. Maybe they hit 4 GIR's but narrowly miss 7 others, and think that's "great". I mean to me a really good ballstriker is someone who's hitting 10+ GIR's and i don't see guys like that shooting 86-89 too often, without full blown chipping yips. I think some people just don't know what a great ballstriker is. I mean there's a lot of guys who might be a 10 handicap or something, and be the best player in their regular group. It's quite possible some guys just haven't played regularly with a 0-2 index

I agree with 5 and 6 too. I think every shot is equally important. Easy to lose shots off the tee. I always say "you can't make birdie with your tee ball, but you sure can make a double bogey". And while i think fitting is important, it's not as important as some will say. I've played rounds with rental clubs very well, ive given up on "custom shafts" for the most part. If you swing 112+ fine i get it....For someone in the 105 range with a normal ball flight. I have a hard time thinking you can't play off the rack clubs and be fine....unless you are 7 feet tall

Brian, i agree with a lot of what you post for the most part.....you are sometimes just a bit more ummmm, assertive then me in saying so LOL

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1391950952' post='8628343']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1391950518' post='8628319']
Hi Brian,

I get up early as well. Too bad it's so damn cold with too much snow on the ground, or I'd be at the course practicing/playing, or doing something. :-)


6. For me, a fitting is important. I can't play clubs off the rack. For example: +1-inch and 3º upright (give or take depending on the OEM).
[/quote]

I'm the first to admit that a person with "unusual body dimensions" can benefit from custom specifications. Longer irons, more upright lies, larger pouch ... the usual stuff.

As to your preference for more traditional irons, I think it's all in your head ;-)
[/quote]

That's the problem...what's in my head. :-)

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1391968373' post='8629657']

Brian, i agree with a lot of what you post for the most part.....you are sometimes just a bit more ummmm, assertive then me in saying so LOL

[/quote]

Gee, I've never heard that before, but thanks ;-)

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1391953881' post='8628521']
[quote name='Roody' timestamp='1391953194' post='8628473']
[quote name='BrianL99']
If you're a "good ball striker", you should be hitting 70% of your fairways and have 60%-70% GIR. If you're good enough to do that, you're good enough to get the golfball in the hole in less than 80 strokes.
[/quote]
I was 47% fairways, and 40% GIR last year. Ugh, I've got a long way to go. Good news is maybe my short game isn't as crappy as I thought.
[/quote]

I've been 70% fairways over the last 5 years & still only manage 33% GIR. Goes to prove that hitting fairways isn't always that important.
[/quote]

Eh?
It doesn't [b]prove[/b] anything of the sort.

It's a potential indicator that your iron and wedge play is relatively poor
or
that you play golf courses that are too long for you and you are hitting hybrids and woods into too many greens
or
that you regularly play courses with massive fairways and tiny, well protected greens
or
you tee off with a 6I all the time to keep your fairway stats up

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1391970470' post='8629891']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1391968373' post='8629657']
Brian, i agree with a lot of what you post for the most part.....you are sometimes just a bit more ummmm, assertive then me in saying so LOL

[/quote]

Gee, I've never heard that before, but thanks ;-)
[/quote]

I meant it as a compliment, you are just more direct then me in these threads haha....i'm too nice....stupid Sean rubbing off on me!

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1391971463' post='8630001']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1391970470' post='8629891']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1391968373' post='8629657']
Brian, i agree with a lot of what you post for the most part.....you are sometimes just a bit more ummmm, assertive then me in saying so LOL

[/quote]

Gee, I've never heard that before, but thanks ;-)
[/quote]

I meant it as a compliment, you are just more direct then me in these threads haha....i'm too nice....stupid Sean rubbing off on me!
[/quote]

And Jeff, I'll take that as a compliment. :-)