Hogan's "weak" grip

Hi all

Hogan mentions in his book that he "weaken" the grip to fight of the hook

But is that really "weak grip"compared to the modern grips of today ?

When he "weaken" his grip did he go from strong to neutral grip?

From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).

i got a copy of five lesson, in it Hogan says he wants his left hand V to aim at his right eye and right V to aim at his chin, but he cautions that simply doing this will not give the proper grip. I suspect once he got his grip on, thats how he felt it was.

When you look at Hogan on face on view, his left hand is perfectly square or parallel with the clubface. For people with higher plane, no pronation going back, and no 3 right hands, that would be a disaster IMO.

When I went through my Hogan phase,about 1975, I could hit it miles right with that grip. If you don't have the release pattern of Hogan, it is a disaster.

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1392784390' post='8699625']
When I went through my Hogan phase,about 1975, I could hit it miles right with that grip. If you don't have the release pattern of Hogan, it is a disaster.
[/quote]

It doesn't work if you don't use your right hand.

I been finding that I not conscious of where my V's are, as I use a wrap around thumb hold in my swing.

I seem be more aware of the V's pointing when Im putting.
However Im notice that where I hinge the club shaft up my wrist it does meet with right eye(when im fading) or chin(when im hooking)

[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1392840590' post='8703465']
I been finding that I not conscious of where my V's are, as I use a wrap around thumb hold in my swing.

I seem be more aware of the V's pointing when Im putting.
However Im notice that where I hinge the club shaft up my wrist it does meet with right eye(when im fading) or chin(when im hooking)
[/quote]

I think a better checkpoint is the relation of your left palm to the club face, instead of the "V".

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392863943' post='8705987']
[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1392840590' post='8703465']
I been finding that I not conscious of where my V's are, as I use a wrap around thumb hold in my swing.

I seem be more aware of the V's pointing when Im putting.
However Im notice that where I hinge the club shaft up my wrist it does meet with right eye(when im fading) or chin(when im hooking)
[/quote]

I think a better checkpoint is the relation of your left palm to the club face, instead of the "V".
[/quote]

Yes I agree. My bad habit is to grip too much into the fingers. I like to do that with the flatter face clubs

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392803767' post='8700295']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1392784390' post='8699625']
When I went through my Hogan phase,about 1975, I could hit it miles right with that grip. If you don't have the release pattern of Hogan, it is a disaster.
[/quote]

It doesn't work if you don't use your right hand.
[/quote]
Agreed. Remember the practice drill he described where he swung with his right fore finger and thumb off the grip? He made sure he applied pressure with the part of the fore finger still in contact with the club. That is [i]very [/i]important...kinda like a steering wheel. Watch the full version of the Coleman video on YouTube and you will see him demonstrate this.

Yes, just going forward that pressure point.

[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1392758705' post='8696365']
From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).
[/quote]

Yes, on the top. What fools prople is he bent his left wrist backwards at address which created an inward curve to the left hand/wrist and THEN it looked normal neutral when in fact it was actually in a weak position. I suspect he did tricky things like this to irritate and confuse people like us.

[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1392758705' post='8696365']
From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).
[/quote]

I just read that part in five lessons about the left thumb It states he modified his left thumb and turn his hand slightly to the right so his left thumb was along the middle of the shaft. This is odd to me when I turn my hand my left thumb is more toward 1oclock on the handle

[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1393082292' post='8721774']
[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1392758705' post='8696365']
From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).
[/quote]

I just read that part in five lessons about the left thumb It states he modified his left thumb and turn his hand slightly to the right so his left thumb was along the middle of the shaft. This is odd to me when I turn my hand my left thumb is more toward 1oclock on the handle
[/quote]

Hogan said in 5L that he moved his left hand a good half inch to the LEFT, not right. He said that moved his left thumb directly in top of the shaft.

This is one fundamental of Hogan that IMO people trying to follow his teachings mostly take for granted.

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1393082914' post='8721820']
[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1393082292' post='8721774']
[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1392758705' post='8696365']
From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).
[/quote]

I just read that part in five lessons about the left thumb It states he modified his left thumb and turn his hand slightly to the right so his left thumb was along the middle of the shaft. This is odd to me when I turn my hand my left thumb is more toward 1oclock on the handle
[/quote]

Hogan said in 5L that he moved his left hand a good half inch to the LEFT, not right. He said that moved his left thumb directly in top of the shaft.

This is one fundamental of Hogan that IMO people trying to follow his teachings mostly take for granted.
[/quote]
Yes I'm wrong you are right it was to the left. That makes sense to me now. Thumb down the middle

Thumb dead on top. Then at address he centered his hands which make the unwary see a more neutral grip (right of top) The best example on the tour right now is Speith. At impact back of Left hand is perfect Hogan parallel line to target and face is dead on target. Game is easier now with equipment and ball. Keep it simple and let these clubs handle the rest. #FUN

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1393187849' post='8729130']
Thumb dead on top. Then at address he centered his hands which make the unwary see a more neutral grip (right of top) The best example on the tour right now is Speith. At impact back of Left hand is perfect Hogan parallel line to target and face is dead on target. Game is easier now with equipment and ball. Keep it simple and let these clubs handle the rest. #FUN
[/quote]

fats sir nice to have you back and posting.

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1392959903' post='8713828']
[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1392758705' post='8696365']
From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).
[/quote]

Yes, on the top. What fools prople is he bent his left wrist backwards at address which created an inward curve to the left hand/wrist and THEN it looked normal neutral when in fact it was actually in a weak position. I suspect he did tricky things like this to irritate and confuse people like us.
[/quote]
And to throw off the hordes of other pros trying to watch him! What really sucks is that all the downswing footage of him is too blurry and you can't really see what he's doing with those hands and wrists from the top down. (If somebody has come across something otherwise, please share!)

[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1392409892' post='8669139']
Hi all
Hogan mentions in his book that he "weaken" the grip to fight of the hook
But is that really "weak grip"compared to the modern grips of today ?
When he "weaken" his grip did he go from strong to neutral grip?
[/quote]

[i]INCOMING!!![/i]

Seriously, though. What answer you get, is entirely dependant upon who you ask. Some will say it was weak, and that he needed that to help resist hitting a snap-hook. Other will say it was technically weak...but not FUNCTIONALLY weak given how he swung the club. Others still will say that it was neutral and not weak as the grip in the famous drawings would seem to indicate.

Bottom line. Unless you have a snap-hook so vicious that you literally strike mute-terror into the hearts of everything on four legs on the left side of the tee, you realy just need to IGNORE Hogan's recommendations on the grip. ESPECIALLY if you want a body-rotation swing like he had. The VAST majority of players who swing this way require a neutral-to-strong grip. I would start there, and would consider weakening it ONLY if you have an incontrollable HOOK, and flaring out your front foot doesn't help it.

If you bow the left wrist you will need a weaker grip

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1393082914' post='8721820']
[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1393082292' post='8721774']
[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1392758705' post='8696365']
From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).
[/quote]

I just read that part in five lessons about the left thumb It states he modified his left thumb and turn his hand slightly to the right so his left thumb was along the middle of the shaft. This is odd to me when I turn my hand my left thumb is more toward 1oclock on the handle
[/quote]


Hogan said in 5L that he moved his left hand a good half inch to the LEFT, not right. He said that moved his left thumb directly in top of the shaft.

This is one fundamental of Hogan that IMO people trying to follow his teachings mostly take for granted.
[/quote]

Okay. I'm starting to understand my left thumb position
I think directly down the top or middle. Not right or left is what I considered neutral.
This strong and weak is dependent on who you talk to.
I like to define it as the left thumb relates to the top of the club face

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392863943' post='8705987']
[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1392840590' post='8703465']
I been finding that I not conscious of where my V's are, as I use a wrap around thumb hold in my swing.

I seem be more aware of the V's pointing when Im putting.
However Im notice that where I hinge the club shaft up my wrist it does meet with right eye(when im fading) or chin(when im hooking)
[/quote]

I think a better checkpoint is the relation of your left palm to the club face, instead of the "V".
[/quote]

Yes I have been confused with the "V" s. I been finding that if the "V" just point to their respective shoulders then my whole arm can rotate along one axial So this is what I define as "neutral"
The "V"s pointing to the right eye and chin doesn't work for me

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1394566693' post='8849345']
[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1392409892' post='8669139']
Hi all
Hogan mentions in his book that he "weaken" the grip to fight of the hook
But is that really "weak grip"compared to the modern grips of today ?
When he "weaken" his grip did he go from strong to neutral grip?
[/quote]

[i]INCOMING!!![/i]

Seriously, though. What answer you get, is entirely dependant upon who you ask. Some will say it was weak, and that he needed that to help resist hitting a snap-hook. Other will say it was technically weak...but not FUNCTIONALLY weak given how he swung the club. Others still will say that it was neutral and not weak as the grip in the famous drawings would seem to indicate.

Bottom line. Unless you have a snap-hook so vicious that you literally strike mute-terror into the hearts of everything on four legs on the left side of the tee, you realy just need to IGNORE Hogan's recommendations on the grip. ESPECIALLY if you want a body-rotation swing like he had. The VAST majority of players who swing this way require a neutral-to-strong grip. I would start there, and would consider weakening it ONLY if you have an incontrollable HOOK, and flaring out your front foot doesn't help it.
[/quote]

I think it was technically weak but not functionally weak. I have been hooking and find that when I "weaken " but not actually have a weak left hand grip then I can keep the ball on the fairway
Call it a "weak-strong " grip?
But this grip would not be considered "neutral"

Did his right hand shift more left on top of the club also?

I was watching Tiger grip the club while hitting wedges and I noticed he grips his left thumb on top the club but then he turns it right/strong. Then he puts his right hand directly on top. I've been trying this and it works really well for me.

[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1416923841' post='10500779']
Did his right hand shift more left on top of the club also?

I was watching Tiger grip the club while hitting wedges and I noticed he grips his left thumb on top the club but then he turns it right/strong. Then he puts his right hand directly on top. I've been trying this and it works really well for me.
[/quote]

The left hand strong grip with a matching right hand position so both wrist hinge together.
I like the feeling of my left thumb resting inside the pocket of my right palm, this ensures that my hands hinge together.
I think "weaken" the left hand from a strong position keeps left ESR and left forearm supination in synch, so there is less timing issues.

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392863943' post='8705987']
[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1392840590' post='8703465']
I been finding that I not conscious of where my V's are, as I use a wrap around thumb hold in my swing.

I seem be more aware of the V's pointing when Im putting.
However Im notice that where I hinge the club shaft up my wrist it does meet with right eye(when im fading) or chin(when im hooking)
[/quote]

I think a better checkpoint is the relation of your left palm to the club face, instead of the "V".
[/quote]

I been finding that my right hand I'm more conscious of Vs pointing to right armpit for "neutral " right hand grip
The left hand I dont worry about where the Vs as I like strong grip with back of my hand pointing upwards ( more knuckles ) I find the left forearm lines up with the clubface rather than the back of the left hand at address
At impact I will bow my left hand so the back of my left hand is align with my forearm

[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1393096369' post='8722952']
[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1393082914' post='8721820']
[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1393082292' post='8721774']
[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1392758705' post='8696365']
From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).
[/quote]

I just read that part in five lessons about the left thumb It states he modified his left thumb and turn his hand slightly to the right so his left thumb was along the middle of the shaft. This is odd to me when I turn my hand my left thumb is more toward 1oclock on the handle
[/quote]

Hogan said in 5L that he moved his left hand a good half inch to the LEFT, not right. He said that moved his left thumb directly in top of the shaft.

This is one fundamental of Hogan that IMO people trying to follow his teachings mostly take for granted.
[/quote]
Yes I'm wrong you are right it was to the left. That makes sense to me now. Thumb down the middle
[/quote]


Okay , from all this I figure Hogan ":weak grip" really was not the average joe's 'weak grip"
The high handicapper's weak grip is really a "flip" type grip.

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1394566693' post='8849345']
[quote name='dlam' timestamp='1392409892' post='8669139']
Hi all
Hogan mentions in his book that he "weaken" the grip to fight of the hook
But is that really "weak grip"compared to the modern grips of today ?
When he "weaken" his grip did he go from strong to neutral grip?
[/quote]

[i]INCOMING!!![/i]

Seriously, though. What answer you get, is entirely dependant upon who you ask. Some will say it was weak, and that he needed that to help resist hitting a snap-hook. Other will say it was technically weak...but not FUNCTIONALLY weak given how he swung the club. Others still will say that it was neutral and not weak as the grip in the famous drawings would seem to indicate.

Bottom line. Unless you have a snap-hook so vicious that you literally strike mute-terror into the hearts of everything on four legs on the left side of the tee, you realy just need to IGNORE Hogan's recommendations on the grip. ESPECIALLY if you want a body-rotation swing like he had. The VAST majority of players who swing this way require a neutral-to-strong grip. I would start there, and would consider weakening it ONLY if you have an incontrollable HOOK, and flaring out your front foot doesn't help it.
[/quote]

Flaring the front foot does help reduce the hook.
Sometimes changing the grip to more neutral isnt neccesary, the strong grip does help keep the grip in the palm of my left hand which I like.
However sometime when I have the snap hook suddenly , flaring out the foot and turning my left hand to the left and neutralizing the grip helps too.
I think starting the left hand strong then making it "neutral" keep the pressure along the palm
If I have a "weak " left hand grip and turn my hand to the right then I might have the same appearence of "neutral" but the grip pressure are too much in my fingers which I dont like and cause more flipping for me.

https://youtu.be/gRQ6W_a0Ppc

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1392959903' post='8713828']
[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1392758705' post='8696365']
From what I've read, his grip was somewhat strong prior to the "secret", then he weakened it so the "left thumb is almost on top of the shaft" (not a direct quote from 5 Lessons but pretty close if memory serves).
[/quote]

Yes, on the top. What fools prople is he bent his left wrist backwards at address which created an inward curve to the left hand/wrist and THEN it looked normal neutral when in fact it was actually in a weak position. I suspect he did tricky things like this to irritate and confuse people like us.
[/quote]

Is Hogan still the man fats?