Getting to scratch with your balls..........

Whoa, whoa whoa, the title is not what you think, you weirdo! Okay, maybe a bit of double entendre on my part, but just read along and you will see what I really mean!

First off, a little background on my game:

I'm a 4 'cap and I would say that is pretty representative of my game. I am decent all around, with my strengths being distance (270 yds +) & short putting (make most of them) while my weakness are accuracy (8-ish GIR) & lag putting (over 45 feet, I'm screwed!). My bunker and short game play is fairly consistent with my 'cap. Also, I'm in Florida, where it's sea level, humid, & soft turf, so that affects the following as well.

So, I've been making a push with my game to get to scratch. I truly believe I can get there, and am trying to look at each and every opportunity to improve. As some of you may be aware, I have given up the "poseur, look like I am sponsored" bag, in favor of the "easier to use, shoot the best score I can" bag. Out with the long irons, in with the hybrids, out with the matching wedges, in with the old, ugly, reliable as heck Eye 2 wedges, etc., etc., etc.

The last piece of equipment to look at was the ball. Now, a perk of my job is free ProV's, so I am not motivated by price. And due to my recent "non-poseur" crusade, I am also not motivated by how I look playing a particular ball. There are no plus 'caps at my club. My sole motivation is to be the first.

So I decided to look at the pros and see how they played the game and what they required of their balls. The pros hit the ball far, so I wanted that. They hit it straight, so I wanted that to. They don't suck wedges off the front of greens, so I want that as well. In fact, I noticed that the pros tend to play way more front yardages than I do. A lot more of letting the ball release. Hmmm......

The pros also choose the easiest and most predictable short game shot, rarely going with too much loft or too much spin, unless absolutely necessary. Hmmm again......

The pros also tend to get putts to the hole. Hmmmm x 3...............

So what ball was it that fit these criteria? Well I want to hit it long, so a distance ball would be best, obviously. But I'm working towards scratch. I can't play one of those. I also need to hit it straight. Lots of balls claim this, so any ball will do here, hooray! But I have noticed, that the closer I get to a tour ball, the less straight they go. I want the ball to spin less into the greens. I can play more front yardages on the softer greens and let the ball release a bit. Again, sounds like not a tour ball, but a distance rock.

Okay, okay, okay, but what about short game spin!?!?! Well, you may remember that the pros are able to consistently control spin on these shots. I am not! I do have the spinny, slightly skulled, checking tour pitch shot in the bag. It checks just right 30% of the time. 40% it is a 40 footer coming back the other way. The other 30% spin to much and leave me a 15 footer left to the hole. So, what if I used height to slow the ball and played a ball that checked up exactly 0% of the time. Sounds weird until you rephrase it to "use a ball that spun predictably 100% of the time." No fear. No confusion over which shot to play. You land it there and roll it to the hole. Every time! Eureka! A distance ball could actually force me to use better course management! (For full disclosure, I should also note that the "use the bounce sorta-lob" is a much easier shot for me than the "use the bounce, spinny, checking, tour pitch.")

And then there is putting. A slightly harder ball, which some understandably don't like, can be easier to get to the hole. And if the feel is too bad, I can change to a putter with a softer insert.

So there you have it. I'm gonna play a Pinnacle Gold for the next month and see what happens. I'll update this post with my round reviews and see what shots I lack, and what shots become easier. Mainly, I will update my 'cap and see what the effect is. I have a feeling the results will be veddy, veddy in-ter-es-ting (Dracula accent).

You raise a point I've always wondered.

I have no trouble holding greens with any ball because I normally play a high trajectory ball flight.

Is it worth it to upgrade to pro v1s and try to make it soon more when I won't feel confident to know how it will react most shots.

[quote name='arnold palmtree' timestamp='1394733723' post='8863965']
You raise a point I've always wondered.

I have no trouble holding greens with any ball because I normally play a high trajectory ball flight.

Is it worth it to upgrade to pro v1s and try to make it soon more when I won't feel confident to know how it will react most shots.
[/quote]

I didn't put that in my OP, but I also hit the ball plenty high to hold the greens where I play. It's a big part of the puzzle for me, I believe.

[color=#800080]How does a harder ball make putting easier ? I will use different balls in a round or tournaments. I haves hit basically every ball ands never seen a ball curve more that was nots due to a bad swings. The spin rate maybe , which woulds be abouts height. The swing path makes the ball curve , nots the ball itself. At least that is what i haves understood things to be likes.[/color]

What ball you play is not nearly as important as how you play your shots. If your current ball hits and sits with a full short/mid iron, then shoot for hole high. If you ball releases a bit on mid/long irons, play those a little short of the hole. Your downfall is proximity to the hole on approaches. You need to know the exact yardage to the front, middle and back on every approach so you can plan the shot more accurately. Fix that and the cap will fall.

I've seen many good players get sloppy with their yardages and suffer for it. Be precise!!

BT

You make some good points OP, and I wish you luck on your trek to a + handicap. I'm currently a 2.8 and am striving to do the same, so I will check in to see your progress.

Regarding ball choice, I have found the ProV1 to be my favorite due to a consistent spin pattern with all of my irons. I know exactly how my ball will react if it lands on the green from a well struck 4 iron, 7 iron, PW, 56*, all of them. Every club, I know if I do my part and hit it how I'm supposed to that it will respond like I expect it to.

With that said, if you look in my bag right now, or any time for that matter, there are two brands of balls. I have a majority of ProV1's, but I have two sleeves of Pinnacle Golds. I honestly feel that it is an underrated ball. It is a distance ball and does not achieve as much spin as the ProV's do, but I've found it to also be very predictable. I have a little bit of control over how much I spin the ball, but certainly not like the pros do. On hard greens where stopping the ball is sometimes a challenge, I really want to be playing my ProV1's. However, if the greens are soft and I'm overspinning ProV's at times, I won't hesitate to pull a Pinnacle Gold out and see how it responds.

There was a time when "+" was my goal, but that's no longer the case, due to other priorities. Still, my lowest rd was 68 and in your handi vicinity, but older. I've tried a number of balls including Prov, if for no other reason than to say I did. But always come back to either hex black tour or ProV1X - with the later getting more play lately. By choice, I am not a high ball hitter and spin the ball plenty so taking it in medium to low and stopping is not an issue.

With irons, I naturally impact the ball in such a manner, I get plenty of spin with any ball. Two areas are of the utmost importance regarding ball behavior; low spin off driver and spin off my wedges on fast greens. Both the aforementioned balls provide that for me. But my major concern of the two is how the ball behaves with short pitches and chips around fast greens. The ProV1x spins more with less run out, meaning I have to throw the ball much closer to the pin. Whereas Hex checks but tends to run out extra 3', so landing area needs to be adjusted back. That said, I tried Pee knuckle gold, its a rock that's good for best ball or scramble events where mid-high caps participate.

Good luck with your goal...I switched to a harder cover ball, the Duo from a ProV for one of the reasons you mentioned, if I caught the pitch just right with a ProV I got great spin, catch it a little heavy it ran more , a little thin and it just ground to stop...too difficult to get a consistent roll out on the chips and pitches. After switching to a Surlyn covered ball, more consistent roll out and like you said, you can stop a pitch with height.

Now mind you, I'm not advocating that everyone who wants to play scratch level golf switch to a Pinnacle Gold. I'm simply advocating thinking a bit outside the box and not pigeonholing yourself to one ball, one brand, or one type of ball. Be willing to consider something different. You may just surprise yourself!

Sounds like you've described a Z Star XV to me.

- long
- straight
- less spin on approaches

Not to argue, but pigeonholing??? Honestly, anyone that's good enough to be a low single digit or better to some degree, thinks outside the box. Typically when better golfers find a piece of equipment that works, we don't change it just because someone else hasn't found the answer. We're past the stage of buying a stroke, least I am. I just don't see it as practical for "+" or scratch level play. I won't even go into the percentage of pros that have played one brand of ball, for all their touring career; and none, that I am aware of, play rocks. And that's the level skill you're talking about, are you not?

As a side thought. As a business owner, when anyone prefaces their idea or advice, with "keep an open mind", it typically means they haven't proven their theory; and would like to at the expense of someone else. That is when I pass, as do the "Sharks". Don't get me wrong, its not bad idea, just not new.

[quote name='duckjr78' timestamp='1394731713' post='8863717']
So I decided to look at the pros and see how they played the game and what they required of their balls. The pros hit the ball far, so I wanted that. They hit it straight, so I wanted that to. They don't suck wedges off the front of greens, so I want that as well. In fact, I noticed that the pros tend to play way more front yardages than I do. A lot more of letting the ball release. Hmmm......

The pros also choose the easiest and most predictable short game shot, rarely going with too much loft or too much spin, unless absolutely necessary. Hmmm again......

The pros also tend to get putts to the hole. Hmmmm x 3...............
[/quote]

I'm not sure any of these deserve a 'hmmmm'.

For the first one, pros play on totally different courses than we do, and often the greens are much more firm (even hard) and unbelievably fast by comparison. They play front yardages because they have to since the greens are hard enough in some cases that they can't hold the greens with anything longer than a short iron. As an example, in grad school I played the U of Florida course quite a bit. One day I went out to practice chipping and putting in the afternoon after a USGA amateur qualifier. I went to my usual chipping warm up spot on the green (closest to the parking lot cause I'm lazy). On the first chip I hit, the ball rolled about 15 yards past the hole and off the green because they had sped up the greens so much more than what was normal for the course.

Second, they all play the shot they feel most comfortable with given the lie and pin position. Again, in many cases the greens they play are so hard lightning fast that, even with lost of spin on a chip shot, the ball is going to run out. Regardless, the shot might be a low bump or a high lob, it just depends on the situation and I think all pros want the option of being able to spin the ball when they need to.

Third, the only reason a golf ball would putt differently from another is if you really don't like the feel/sound of the ball and it causes you mental anguish to have to putt with it. Or, conversely, you find one that you love the sound/feel of and it makes you want nothing more than to play with your balls all day. Aside from something like that, you don't need to change balls in an effort to get your putts to the hole. You just need to practice more.

All in all, I don't see how switching to a pinnacle gold is going to help you unless the reason you only hit 8 greens is because you're getting too much side spin on your irons. In that case, the pinnacle gold might help you hit more greens. However, I think if you force yourself to have to land the ball on the front of every green and play for the roll out you essentially make the green much smaller and harder to hold. Plus, you're going to lose the option of controlling your shots with spin. Any time you need to stop it (say, if you short-side yourself) then you're giving up the possibility of having a short putt for par.

Ball go far but ball no stop. Good luck with your experiment...

I'm getting a little push back, and that is what I expected. But I also see a couple of guys who agree with me!

Pepper, I am planning on proving my theory at my own expense. And the pidgeonholing comment was because I see 99% of low 'caps playing tour balls. I'm thinking that playing a different ball may be beneficial for 10% or so, and I want them to give the ugly girl a chance. She may surprise them!

grochol, I went to UF as well and played that course after tournaments as well. I'm not talking about playing front yardages when the pin is in the back and I have a wedge in hand. I'm taking about not sucking a wedge back 15 feet off the green and stopping a 4 iron 2 feet from its pitch mark. Also, not being able to spin it around the greens forces me to not short side myself. My course management is better.

Fade to Black, the XV is my favorite tour ball, right on!

Last year one of our 2-cap players shot a 68 in competition with a pink lady's ball on a dare. It was his lowest round of the year.

[quote name='duckjr78' timestamp='1394761957' post='8867247']
grochol, I went to UF as well and played that course after tournaments as well. I'm not talking about playing front yardages when the pin is in the back and I have a wedge in hand. I'm taking about not sucking a wedge back 15 feet off the green and stopping a 4 iron 2 feet from its pitch mark. Also, not being able to spin it around the greens forces me to not short side myself. My course management is better.
[/quote]

When were you there? I started in 2000 and finished in 2007.

If you're backing up wedges that much then you're having basically the same problem I was describing with the roll out, just in reverse. Since balatas went out of style I haven't played with anyone that backed the ball up much more than a couple of feet, so I wasn't considering that to be an issue. Either way, a lot of roll on the ball effectively makes the green smaller since you can't land it deep if the ball rolls out and you can't land it on the front if the ball backs up a lot.

I've always picked a ball based on how it feels/performs *for me* from short putts on back. So how it feels on:

short putts
long puts
chipping/pitching
short wedge shots
iron shots
off the tee

If I found a ball that was great with the driver but it felt like crap on the greens, thats no good for me since I hit 5x more putts than I do drivers during a round. And I say "for me" because my swing characteristics will be different from everyone elses. I already put a lot of spin on my wedge shots so I would rather play a ball that stops and drops vs one I'd back up too far. But whats good for me will be different for most everyone else.

I started playing the Duo in Jan '13 and haven't looked back. On a list of things preventing me from getting to scratch, my choice of ball is not on the list.

I too am a 4 'capper. Talked a pro about getting to scratch. He said PRACTISE is the only way to get there. Since you get Provs for free, go with the X. Less spin off the driver. Also try NXT Tour and Tour S. Less spin vs ProV but a little more around the green than a Pinnacle.

[quote name='grochol17' timestamp='1394774300' post='8868353']
[quote name='duckjr78' timestamp='1394761957' post='8867247']
grochol, I went to UF as well and played that course after tournaments as well. I'm not talking about playing front yardages when the pin is in the back and I have a wedge in hand. I'm taking about not sucking a wedge back 15 feet off the green and stopping a 4 iron 2 feet from its pitch mark. Also, not being able to spin it around the greens forces me to not short side myself. My course management is better.
[/quote]

When were you there? I started in 2000 and finished in 2007.

If you're backing up wedges that much then you're having basically the same problem I was describing with the roll out, just in reverse. Since balatas went out of style I haven't played with anyone that backed the ball up much more than a couple of feet, so I wasn't considering that to be an issue. Either way, a lot of roll on the ball effectively makes the green smaller since you can't land it deep if the ball rolls out and you can't land it on the front if the ball backs up a lot.
[/quote]

Hehe, I was there from the Fall of '96 through the Spring of '98. I was asked to leave due to what was described as a "lack of commitment to my education." Basically, I tried to smoke all the beer and drink all the w*** in Gainseville!

As far as backing the ball up, the greens I play on have a good bit of slope, and like most greens, it is back to front. A ball that bounces a few feet forward typically isn't going to go to far, where as one that is coming back towards me might just catch a ridge and come back 40'.

We all are preaching the same thing here. Find a ball that fits what you like to do, feels good, and that is predictable. I'm just saying that ball might be at the other end of the spectrum than you think.

Man, I wish I had read Monte's thread about the Lady IQ back when they were still being made!

Why not just play any distance premium ball? Prov1X, B330, Z-Star XV, etc?

[quote name='Go_Blue!' timestamp='1394821834' post='8871765']
Why not just play any distance premium ball? Prov1X, B330, Z-Star XV, etc?
[/quote]

I have. I like the XV the most out of the premium balls. The B330 was not as good for me, and the ProV1x just doesn't cut the mustard either.

I promise, I wouldn't have started this thread if I hadn't done my due diligence.

I do support the theory that there is no such thing as a good players ball im in golf college in the UK and play the Pro V1x we are all good players to get in the Golf college and there are a few lads that have done experiments with lower spinning balls and quite a few me included for about 2 weeks switched to the NXT Tour some are continuing to play it now though many are switching back to there normal ball me included as I have played the Pro V1x for ages now and no exactly what it will do I didn't really like the switch as it didn't suit me but for you I would suggest you take a look at the NXT Tour or One RZN X I think that'll be perfect for you

I dont know about the two of you playing with your balls... but I did catch this

Go Gators.....

that is all

[quote name='grochol17' timestamp='1394760824' post='8867081']
[quote name='duckjr78' timestamp='1394731713' post='8863717']
So I decided to look at the pros and see how they played the game and what they required of their balls. The pros hit the ball far, so I wanted that. They hit it straight, so I wanted that to. They don't suck wedges off the front of greens, so I want that as well. In fact, I noticed that the pros tend to play way more front yardages than I do. A lot more of letting the ball release. Hmmm......

The pros also choose the easiest and most predictable short game shot, rarely going with too much loft or too much spin, unless absolutely necessary. Hmmm again......

The pros also tend to get putts to the hole. Hmmmm x 3...............
[/quote]

I'm not sure any of these deserve a 'hmmmm'.

For the first one, pros play on totally different courses than we do, and often the greens are much more firm (even hard) and unbelievably fast by comparison. They play front yardages because they have to since the greens are hard enough in some cases that they can't hold the greens with anything longer than a short iron. As an example, in grad school I played the U of Florida course quite a bit. One day I went out to practice chipping and putting in the afternoon after a USGA amateur qualifier. I went to my usual chipping warm up spot on the green (closest to the parking lot cause I'm lazy). On the first chip I hit, the ball rolled about 15 yards past the hole and off the green because they had sped up the greens so much more than what was normal for the course.

Second, they all play the shot they feel most comfortable with given the lie and pin position. Again, in many cases the greens they play are so hard lightning fast that, even with lost of spin on a chip shot, the ball is going to run out. Regardless, the shot might be a low bump or a high lob, it just depends on the situation and I think all pros want the option of being able to spin the ball when they need to.

Third, the only reason a golf ball would putt differently from another is if you really don't like the feel/sound of the ball and it causes you mental anguish to have to putt with it. Or, conversely, you find one that you love the sound/feel of and it makes you want nothing more than to play with your balls all day. Aside from something like that, you don't need to change balls in an effort to get your putts to the hole. You just need to practice more.

All in all, I don't see how switching to a pinnacle gold is going to help you unless the reason you only hit 8 greens is because you're getting too much side spin on your irons. In that case, the pinnacle gold might help you hit more greens. However, I think if you force yourself to have to land the ball on the front of every green and play for the roll out you essentially make the green much smaller and harder to hold. Plus, you're going to lose the option of controlling your shots with spin. Any time you need to stop it (say, if you short-side yourself) then you're giving up the possibility of having a short putt for par.
[/quote]

Have to agree with all the points on here, except for the putting with different balls. Sometimes those surlyn balls jump like a mother off the putter, and inconsistently at that, much like they can off of irons.

That said, play what helps you score best, OP. Nothing wrong with trial and error!

If it does not balloon, I'd take the free PV1 balls. Far more versatile than distance balls.

- Distance is never a big difference ball to ball.

- Greenside control and putting can be improved by ball choice.

Okay, so 1st round in the books with the non-premium ball. (I've decided to quite saying Pinnacle gold because people seemed to get hung up on that. I'm just starting with Pinnacles in my journey to find my ball.)

Shot a 75 from the #2 tees. 6500+ in NW Florida, sea level, thick air, soft ground. 71.8 rating, 136 slope.

2 doubles, 1 bogey, 1 birdie. 13 GIR, 10 FIR. Both doubles were completely due to lack of commitment on a shot, causing a lost ball and penalty stroke. The bogey was from a "hot shot" that flew a green by 20 yards, but I might have accidentally lasered the tree behind the pin!

Up & down: 3/5 Pitches that land on the fringe instead of a pace onto the green are forgiven and roll out close to the hole. Short game shots that land on down slopes do not stop though, as you might expect.

Impressions so far: Wind is much less of a factor (into, cross, & down). Average distance is up. Lack of short game spin forces me to rethink approach shots & short game shots. We'll see how this turns out.

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1394757890' post='8866679']
Not to argue, but pigeonholing??? Honestly, anyone that's good enough to be a low single digit or better to some degree, thinks outside the box. Typically when better golfers find a piece of equipment that works, we don't change it just because someone else hasn't found the answer. We're past the stage of buying a stroke, least I am. I just don't see it as practical for "+" or scratch level play. I won't even go into the percentage of pros that have played one brand of ball, for all their touring career; and none, that I am aware of, play rocks. And that's the level skill you're talking about, are you not?

As a side thought. As a business owner, when anyone prefaces their idea or advice, with "keep an open mind", it typically means they haven't proven their theory; and would like to at the expense of someone else. That is when I pass, as do the "Sharks". Don't get me wrong, its not bad idea, just not new.
[/quote]
Although I pretty much agree with what you said, I think you may be over simplifying a bit. Pros stick with tour balls, but you need to factor in tour greens. Ams don't play hard, fast greens every week so may not always need the amount of spin a tour ball gives. A PG on slow greens might perform exactly the same way as a tour ball on fast greens, but provide better performance tee to green. Personally I always play a tour ball, but I've been drinking the tour ball kool aid for too long and can't help myself. There have been more times than not that all my pitches and chipsfinish well short of the hole all day on slow greemns, on those days I probably would be better off with rocks with a bit of roll out.

Horses for courses.

[quote name='playa' timestamp='1395345306' post='8912675']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1394757890' post='8866679']
Not to argue, but pigeonholing??? Honestly, anyone that's good enough to be a low single digit or better to some degree, thinks outside the box. Typically when better golfers find a piece of equipment that works, we don't change it just because someone else hasn't found the answer. We're past the stage of buying a stroke, least I am. I just don't see it as practical for "+" or scratch level play. I won't even go into the percentage of pros that have played one brand of ball, for all their touring career; and none, that I am aware of, play rocks. And that's the level skill you're talking about, are you not?

As a side thought. As a business owner, when anyone prefaces their idea or advice, with "keep an open mind", it typically means they haven't proven their theory; and would like to at the expense of someone else. That is when I pass, as do the "Sharks". Don't get me wrong, its not bad idea, just not new.
[/quote]
Although I pretty much agree with what you said, I think you may be over simplifying a bit. Pros stick with tour balls, but you need to factor in tour greens. Ams don't play hard, fast greens every week so may not always need the amount of spin a tour ball gives. A PG on slow greens might perform exactly the same way as a tour ball on fast greens, but provide better performance tee to green. Personally I always play a tour ball, but I've been drinking the tour ball kool aid for too long and can't help myself. There have been more times than not that all my pitches and chipsfinish well short of the hole all day on slow greemns, on those days I probably would be better off with rocks with a bit of roll out.

Horses for courses.
[/quote]

Green condition depends on where you're located. Over the last twenty years of playing golf, I have traveled extensively, always with my clubs. In CA, AZ, HI and TX where I regularly play, greens can run fast, and in many cases are firm to hard. I've even encountered fast greens in the Midwest and south east.

Whether rock or not has a great deal to do with skill and game intent. But to simplify my life I adhere to my grandpa's belief; there has to be an honest to goodness reason for changing 'anything' that works. If you think you can't control that ball, by all means check out those rocks. Fast or slow, all I do is adjust where I land the ball in relationship to undulations and pin.

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1395348883' post='8913029']
[quote name='playa' timestamp='1395345306' post='8912675']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1394757890' post='8866679']
Not to argue, but pigeonholing??? Honestly, anyone that's good enough to be a low single digit or better to some degree, thinks outside the box. Typically when better golfers find a piece of equipment that works, we don't change it just because someone else hasn't found the answer. We're past the stage of buying a stroke, least I am. I just don't see it as practical for "+" or scratch level play. I won't even go into the percentage of pros that have played one brand of ball, for all their touring career; and none, that I am aware of, play rocks. And that's the level skill you're talking about, are you not?

As a side thought. As a business owner, when anyone prefaces their idea or advice, with "keep an open mind", it typically means they haven't proven their theory; and would like to at the expense of someone else. That is when I pass, as do the "Sharks". Don't get me wrong, its not bad idea, just not new.
[/quote]
Although I pretty much agree with what you said, I think you may be over simplifying a bit. Pros stick with tour balls, but you need to factor in tour greens. Ams don't play hard, fast greens every week so may not always need the amount of spin a tour ball gives. A PG on slow greens might perform exactly the same way as a tour ball on fast greens, but provide better performance tee to green. Personally I always play a tour ball, but I've been drinking the tour ball kool aid for too long and can't help myself. There have been more times than not that all my pitches and chipsfinish well short of the hole all day on slow greemns, on those days I probably would be better off with rocks with a bit of roll out.

Horses for courses.
[/quote]

Green condition depends on where you're located. Over the last twenty years of playing golf, I have traveled extensively, always with my clubs. In CA, AZ, HI and TX where I regularly play, greens can run fast, and in many cases are firm to hard. I've even encountered fast greens in the Midwest and south east.

Whether rock or not has a great deal to do with skill and game intent. But to simplify my life I adhere to my grandpa's belief; there has to be an honest to goodness reason for changing 'anything' that works. If you think you can't control that ball, by all means check out those rocks. Fast or slow, all I do is adjust where I land the ball in relationship to undulations and pin.
[/quote]
Im from Australia, and I play mostly low end courses so rarely play fast greens and as stated often struggle with shots around the green stopping well short of the hole. But I get where you're coming from and adopt the same strategy myself. This thread has just got me thinking, although I have used cheaper balls in the past and never really felt comfortable. I guess my view is it might be possible to play to scratch with a non tour ball if that tickles your fancy, but it's not for everyone.

[quote name='playa' timestamp='1395353214' post='8913515']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1395348883' post='8913029']
[quote name='playa' timestamp='1395345306' post='8912675']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1394757890' post='8866679']
Not to argue, but pigeonholing??? Honestly, anyone that's good enough to be a low single digit or better to some degree, thinks outside the box. Typically when better golfers find a piece of equipment that works, we don't change it just because someone else hasn't found the answer. We're past the stage of buying a stroke, least I am. I just don't see it as practical for "+" or scratch level play. I won't even go into the percentage of pros that have played one brand of ball, for all their touring career; and none, that I am aware of, play rocks. And that's the level skill you're talking about, are you not?

As a side thought. As a business owner, when anyone prefaces their idea or advice, with "keep an open mind", it typically means they haven't proven their theory; and would like to at the expense of someone else. That is when I pass, as do the "Sharks". Don't get me wrong, its not bad idea, just not new.
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Although I pretty much agree with what you said, I think you may be over simplifying a bit. Pros stick with tour balls, but you need to factor in tour greens. Ams don't play hard, fast greens every week so may not always need the amount of spin a tour ball gives. A PG on slow greens might perform exactly the same way as a tour ball on fast greens, but provide better performance tee to green. Personally I always play a tour ball, but I've been drinking the tour ball kool aid for too long and can't help myself. There have been more times than not that all my pitches and chipsfinish well short of the hole all day on slow greemns, on those days I probably would be better off with rocks with a bit of roll out.

Horses for courses.
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Green condition depends on where you're located. Over the last twenty years of playing golf, I have traveled extensively, always with my clubs. In CA, AZ, HI and TX where I regularly play, greens can run fast, and in many cases are firm to hard. I've even encountered fast greens in the Midwest and south east.

Whether rock or not has a great deal to do with skill and game intent. But to simplify my life I adhere to my grandpa's belief; there has to be an honest to goodness reason for changing 'anything' that works. If you think you can't control that ball, by all means check out those rocks. Fast or slow, all I do is adjust where I land the ball in relationship to undulations and pin.
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Im from Australia, and I play mostly low end courses so rarely play fast greens and as stated often struggle with shots around the green stopping well short of the hole. But I get where you're coming from and adopt the same strategy myself. This thread has just got me thinking, although I have used cheaper balls in the past and never really felt comfortable. I guess my view is it might be possible to play to scratch with a non tour ball if that tickles your fancy, but it's not for everyone.
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I use to have business dealing in Australia and sold a company to an Aussie. Never met an Aussie I didn't like. Never played golf down under either, so surprised the greens are slow. Is that normal? I don't doubt its possible scratch golf is attainable using a rock, just not convinced its a worth while endeavor.