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Waving up on par 3. Seriously, what's the point?


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This past weekend I played a round at a local municipal course where the par 3's are decently long but not overly challenging - 134yrds, 193yrds, 207yrds and 189yrds. All are straight with maybe a bunker protecting the front and no water in play. The pace of play is generally slow on weekends here in SoCal and the group ahead of us weren't getting away from us anytime soon.

 

This is my 5th year golfing and it's the first time I've ever heard of "waving up". I think it's insane and I refuse to do it. I understand it has to do with trying to keep pace of play but I believe it brings more danger to the game. On both the 193yrd and 207yrd holes, I smoked my 5 and 4 iron, respectively, and the shots landed near the back of the green where the people were waiting and I had to yell fore twice. I only conceded to tee off on these holes because (1) the group waved us up and (2) the two people my friend and I got paired with didn't mind. I was truly confused when it happened the first time and annoyed the second time.

 

Our group didn't wave up the group after us because I didn't care for it so we putted out on all the par 3's. The group behind us didn't say anything to us but one of their shots did land at the front of the green while I was lining up my putt which pissed me off. If a ball would have hit me, I honestly don't know what would have happened. The John McEnroe of golf might have shown up! :aggressive:

 

Am I wrong on this? Again, it's the first time I've heard of it and I've played a decent amount of golf. If I am wrong, then next time I'll abide by the rule and wave people up.

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IMHO, you're in the wrong. If those are the course rules then abide by them. If you don't want to then you shouldn't play the course. There are some local rules I'm not a fan of so I don't play the course.

That being said the guy behind you shouldn't have hit since you didn't wave him up. In essence he's your "bizarro magix".

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Fair point joey. I wasn't sure if it was a rule or etiquette related. Since it's a rule, I was wrong and next time I'll do so accordingly.

Thanks!

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I hear ya. Its tough. I'm not a fan of waving up. Especially for the safety reason you mentioned. The way i see it allowing a group to play through is etiquette ... Waving up is a course rule.

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wave up -

it keeps flow of course moving - especially with groups of walkers

by the time you walk up to the green - the group ahead will have putted out and headed to next tee

just think - there is a reason "waving up" was started in the 1st place

and it started long before you picked up a club

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it can be dangerous if the group on the green isn't diligently watching where the tee shots are heading though...

i once hit a guy on the head when he wasn't watching my tee shot and it was a bloody mess.

i ran to him and he was holding his head on the spot where he was hit and when he took his hand off the blood came spurting out and even hit my glasses!!

he didn't blame me at all cuz i also knew him and he was the one who actually waved us up...my shot was just too strong and they were at the back of the green..

luckily medical attention came swiftly but he had to have 9 stitches...

i got so rattled i couldn't continue my round..

i had such a phobia after that it took me quite a while to hit up on par-3s and i try to make sure everyone is really out of range but still no guarrantees there..

i agree with the rule though but do it only when the course is really full.

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One of the courses I grew up playing has a huge apple-shaped island green for their signature 17th hole. When the course is crowded, everyone waves the group behind up when they reach the back of the green. I think this is one of the few instances where this actually saves time. It takes about 5-7 minutes to walk from the tee down to the putting surface, which is perfect for the group ahead to putt out. There is also a bridge at the back of the green where the first group can stand relatively safely.

Other than that, I think it's pretty pointless to wave a group up on a short, straightforward par 3. Doesn't speed up play in most instances.

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[quote name='tmfool ' timestamp='1395877460' post='8958335']
wave up -

it keeps flow of course moving - especially with groups of walkers

by the time you walk up to the green - the group ahead will have putted out and headed to next tee

just think - there is a reason "waving up" was started in the 1st place

and it started long before you picked up a club
[/quote]

I've been playing golf for around 25 yrs. now. Waving up was something I experienced when I first started playing. It was common practice back then and it was something I've seen done on a lot of the courses I played in my younger days. I don't see it done much anymore. I might have run across a handful of groups in recent yrs. that have gave me the wave up. My group is usually waved off when we have offered the group behind us to hit up so we don't do it any more. I don't see the sense in it anymore. I think it helped some when you had a lot of walkers out there but now days riding seems to be the norm for most.

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Exactly as stated above it is to help relieve the "log jam effect" that happens on par 3s on busy days. When you only have a short trip up to the green in a cart then it can be fairly silly, but if it is a long walk or long ride to the green it can absolutely help alleviate the wait a group has on the tee box and keep you from getting "iced" waiting for the green to clear.

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Like mentioned above, "waving up" is only going to save time if there's a significant amount of time/distance it will take a group to get from the tee box to the green/hitting area. Most par 3s there isn't enough time/distance to make a difference, especially if all players are using carts.

I've been involved in "waving up" situations in the past, but its always been with walkers and holes where you're going way out of the way to get back to green or landing zone. Usually involves a large forced carry over water, marsh, or hazard area.

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Waving up is only for tough par 3's where 3 of the 4 in the group behind are likely to miss the green.

And it really only makes sense when all the groups are walking. Like in a tournament. If it's normal play and there are carts in some groups, it doesn't make sense at all. The guys in the carts are going to be sitting there watching you putt out waiting to chip.

The guy hitting into a group putting out on a PAR 3 was an absolute tool.

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Yeah, all the par 3's on the course were easily reachable and the group in front and back were in golf carts. It literally made no sense to me how waving anyone up was going to save time. It only made me nervous while playing cause I almost hit two people with my tee shots.

I would totally understand with the situation described above by drewtaylor21 (beatiful course btw!). It would take some time to reach the green after teeing off.

Rules are rules I guess...c'est la vie.

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[quote name='drewtaylor21' timestamp='1395879027' post='8958519']
One of the courses I grew up playing has a huge apple-shaped island green for their signature 17th hole. When the course is crowded, everyone waves the group behind up when they reach the back of the green. I think this is one of the few instances where this actually saves time. It takes about 5-7 minutes to walk from the tee down to the putting surface, which is perfect for the group ahead to putt out. There is also a bridge at the back of the green where the first group can stand relatively safely.

Other than that, I think it's pretty pointless to wave a group up on a short, straightforward par 3. Doesn't speed up play in most instances.

[/quote]

Played that course a number of times! I have a buddy that is from Naches. Been dry every time so far I played it. Guess I just jinxed myself.....

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[quote name='mukster' timestamp='1395884457' post='8959115']
[quote name='drewtaylor21' timestamp='1395879027' post='8958519']
One of the courses I grew up playing has a huge apple-shaped island green for their signature 17th hole. When the course is crowded, everyone waves the group behind up when they reach the back of the green. I think this is one of the few instances where this actually saves time. It takes about 5-7 minutes to walk from the tee down to the putting surface, which is perfect for the group ahead to putt out. There is also a bridge at the back of the green where the first group can stand relatively safely.

Other than that, I think it's pretty pointless to wave a group up on a short, straightforward par 3. Doesn't speed up play in most instances.

[/quote]

Played that course a number of times! I have a buddy that is from Naches. Been dry every time so far I played it. Guess I just jinxed myself.....
[/quote]

Haha yeah it's a huge green, but as soon as you start taking it for granted it's easy to brain fart one into the drink! Apple Tree is a fun course though - finding that pic made me really miss playing there. Hoping to get back up to visit family in May though, so hopefully I'll be able to get out for a round.

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[quote name='Greenie' timestamp='1395879505' post='8958567']
[quote name='tmfool ' timestamp='1395877460' post='8958335']
wave up -

it keeps flow of course moving - especially with groups of walkers

by the time you walk up to the green - the group ahead will have putted out and headed to next tee

just think - there is a reason "waving up" was started in the 1st place

and it started long before you picked up a club
[/quote]

I've been playing golf for around 25 yrs. now. Waving up was something I experienced when I first started playing. It was common practice back then and it was something I've seen done on a lot of the courses I played in my younger days. I don't see it done much anymore. I might have run across a handful of groups in recent yrs. that have gave me the wave up. My group is usually waved off when we have offered the group behind us to hit up so we don't do it any more. I don't see the sense in it anymore. I think it helped some when you had a lot of walkers out there but now days riding seems to be the norm for most.
[/quote]

Waving the group up was the norm 40-50 years a go when I started playing as a kid. Seems to have faded over the last 20 years
to the point nobody does it any more it seems.

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[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1395906649' post='8960201']
It only saves time on that hole. It does nothing for the holes ahead.
The idea is now discredited because of the number of accidents and the resulting litigation.
The course management need to talk to their insurance company as they will have a liability if they have a notice up.
[/quote]

Well now, there's an eye opener! Maybe I shouldn't have opened my big mouth so quickly [now fixed with the edit function!) I'll need to look into this further! :read:
Thanks for the alert.

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[quote name='Colin L' timestamp='1395909765' post='8960245']
[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1395906649' post='8960201']
It only saves time on that hole. It does nothing for the holes ahead.
The idea is now discredited because of the number of accidents and the resulting litigation.
The course management need to talk to their insurance company as they will have a liability if they have a notice up.
[/quote]

Well now, there's an eye opener! Maybe I shouldn't have opened my big mouth so quickly about the OP's dreadful attitude. I'll need to look into this further! :read:

Thanks for the alert.
[/quote]

I have this vague picture in my head having read something about timing this practice by an instance. In this 'study' it was acknowledged (as Newby already pointed out) that for the overall turnaround time on the course this practice had no effect. That is because the time people saved on that par3 they lost waiting for the group ahead on the next hole. So in essence, the blockage is merely shifted to another place.

Call hole is fine on long/difficult par3's, as already mentioned. A fair rule of thumb is that if it takes more that the time difference between starting groups to play that hole it may pay off.

I know only one call hole here and that is a 200 m par3 (men's club tee) downhill. The difference in altitude is so big that for this 200 m shot you need to take a club for 170 m and you reach the center of the green. Great looking hole. EDIT: Oh, almost forgot: there is a safety net behind which the preceding group takes cover for the next group to tee off, and you are not allowed to tee off until the entire group is behind the net. No accidents that way.

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[quote name='Mr. Bean' timestamp='1395911013' post='8960267']

I have this vague picture in my head having read something about timing this practice by an instance. In this 'study' it was acknowledged (as Newby already pointed out) that for the overall turnaround time on the course this practice had no effect. That is because the time people saved on that par3 they lost waiting for the group ahead on the next hole. So in essence, the blockage is merely shifted to another place.

[/quote]

A statistician colleague of mine, an expert in queuing theory, showed that that is exactly what happens.

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[quote name='Mr. Bean' timestamp='1395911013' post='8960267']
I know only one call hole here and that is a 200 m par3 (men's club tee) downhill. The difference in altitude is so big that for this 200 m shot you need to take a club for 170 m and you reach the center of the green. Great looking hole. EDIT: Oh, almost forgot: there is a safety net behind which the preceding group takes cover for the next group to tee off, and you are not allowed to tee off until the entire group is behind the net. No accidents that way.
[/quote]

The drop is about 100 feet, it's a nice hole to view and interesting one in the sense one might need anything from a 3 wood to a 7 iron depending on the winds but one big bugger playing it regularly due to the log jam it creates.

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That photo of the apple green doesn't do the elevation change justice. That is a fun golf course.

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they used this in the us open last year on the 300-yard par 3. i remember seeing Justin Rose ducked behind a bush for his safety. everyone was missing the green on that hole, though, and i still don't know if it helped. maybe walking 300 yards is enough time for two pros to putt out, but walking 190 yards will never be enough time for 4 weekend warriors to even start putting.

i hate this rule and usually ignore it. so do most people i see on the course.

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Generally I agree with others; waving up doesn't do much, but we have almost a perfect storm on my course where it might, if it were policy.

We have an easy par-4 7th, followed by a tough par 3 8th followed by a somewhat open par-5 9th. The cart path on the 3 winds around the water, and there's not a great place to park. There's hazard on 3 sides, trees on the 4th, sand in front, and it's a 2-tiered green that leads to many 3-putts.

90% of the time, you spend a bunch of time on the 3, and get to the 5 and the group in front is gone, gone gone. You might not wait on them again the rest of the day, or you might catch them on one of the 3's on the back. On weekends, often there is a group on the green, a group on the tee, and another group sitting there. I usually wait to light my stogie until that hole.

So basically everyone goes onto the back-side with almost an open hole in front of them.

[size=4]This highlights an issue with "slow play" in general. We always want to blame one "slow group", but you can have several groups in a row that are all playing at a normal pace, but because of the easy-4, hard-3, easy-5, the course itself creates stops and gaps. Even with 10 minute intervals on the 1st tee, by 9 O'clock on a Saturday morning, you're going to have a delay built into your round because of the sequence of average hole times.[/size]

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[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1395906649' post='8960201']
It only saves time on that hole. It does nothing for the holes ahead.
The idea is now discredited because of the number of accidents and the resulting litigation.
The course management need to talk to their insurance company as they will have a liability if they have a notice up.
[/quote]

..i shudder at the thought of the mess it would have created for me if the guy i hit sued me!!

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We have a wave up policy at our 17th hole. It's about 210, slightly downhill, but with OB left and long. The 18th tee is just to the right of the green(from the 17th tee). It's a safety issue for us, frankly.

Now why they did so on our 6th hole, I have no idea. It either backs up on that hole, or on the next tee, but it backs up.

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      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
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