Pasatiempo review.... please read if considering making the trip

[youngun87]

Just finished up a pebble trip. We played Poppy Hills, Spyglass, Bayonet, Pebble, Spanish Bay and Pasatiempo. These courses have been discussed in detail but I feel the need to put my two cents in on my experience at Pasatimepo. The course is fantastic but people should know about the current condition of the course. As you all may know Santa Cruz has cut the courses water consumption by 50%. This is a major problem. This has taken a major toll on the quality of the course. The greens and tee boxes are fine but everything else on the course is absolutely dead. There have been some threads on here discussing this. The course is definitively not in the condition it should be. There is a huge difference in the experience of playing with the current course conditions. Some have claimed that this is the way Mckenzie intended it to play but that is, without question, false. The grass is dead and it takes a lot away from the experience. There are some portions of the course that are well watered and it provides a stark contrast with the rest the course which is in TERRIBLE condition. Most of the grass is dead and brown. The 18th hole clearly receives more water than the rest and is completely green. The visual difference in the beauty is painfully clear. One can clearly see how this is one of the best courses in the country but my problem is how the management of Pasatiempo have handled this. They charge a full green fee but offer a $50 coupon for playing the course within the next year due to the condition. In my opinion this in no way compensates for the condition of the course. The voucher is non transferable and it is of absolutely no value to someone like me who makes the trip across the country to play. DO NOT PLAY AT THE CURRENT RATE. Period. Don't do it. I understand the arguement of hard and fast but the condition of the course is unacceptable for the full rate. Brown, dead and ugly. I grew up in the Texas hill country and I know that courses do not have to be brown to play hard and fast. I would recommend the course if they were giving a $100 discount on green fee, but in the current condition I would stay far far far away.

[GWD]

Thanks for sharing this information.

The drought here in CA and the resulting regulations are certainly not golf-friendly.

Much of the Northern CA water is shipped to Southern CA. Apparently, golf courses down there are nice and green!

[sharkiesj]

Thanks for sharing.

One question. Why do you say the 18th hole receives the most water and is completely green when the entire hole consists of a tee and a green cuz it's a par 3. If the rest of the hole is dead grass and the green lies in front of a gorge, who cares what the rest of the hole looks like? No?

[youngun87]

[quote name='sharkiesj' timestamp='1409503973' post='10040427']
Thanks for sharing.

One question. Why do you say the 18th hole receives the most water and is completely green when the entire hole consists of a tee and a green cuz it's a par 3. If the rest of the hole is dead grass and the green lies in front of a gorge, who cares what the rest of the hole looks like? No?
[/quote]

Even the rough around the green is in great condition compared to the rest of the course. The vegetation around the gorge is also kept alive. I suspect this is to leave players with a good impression when they leave. Being a par 3 and having a gorge between the tee box and the green just shows you how the rest of the course is supposed to look like. Having dead brown grass just takes something away from the visual appeal. Many areas of the course are just dirt. Not even dead grass but just plain dirt. Imagine Augusta being brown save for the greens and tee boxes..... The beauty is just not there. I also have to add that many of the "landing areas" which are advertised as good condition and playable, are in terrible condition as well. For every square foot of land there might be 10% that is actually grass. It is such a shame. The real issue is how management is handling it. It is ridiculous. We actually considered going back to the club house and asking for a refund after the first two holes. I wanted to say something after the round and talk a little more with management but the club house was closed at 7:30pm with people still on the course. I can not see how they can justify charging people the full rate.

[johnnylongball]

Younggun, thanks for this condition update. We are supposed to be in the area next month for what will very likely be a once in a lifetime trip. We are scheduled to play the same courses that you are, with the exception that we are scheduled for Blackhorse instead of Poppy.

Given Pasatiempo's reputation (top 10 public) I am hesitant to cancel that tee time because I want to play the course and if don't play it on this trip, I probably never will. But your review definitely gives me pause. I don't want to play on dirt. Maybe I should call them and try to negotiate a lower rate. Like you, the $50 voucher is worthless to me.

Anyone have any thoughts on this topic? If you were only going to have a chance to play Pasa once, would you go ahead and do so regardless of condition, or cancel and play elsewhere if it's in truly terrible condition?

[youngun87]

[quote name='johnnylongball' timestamp='1409683141' post='10050913']
Younggun, thanks for this condition update. We are supposed to be in the area next month for what will very likely be a once in a lifetime trip. We are scheduled to play the same courses that you are, with the exception that we are scheduled for Blackhorse instead of Poppy.

Given Pasatiempo's reputation (top 10 public) I am hesitant to cancel that tee time because I want to play the course and if don't play it on this trip, I probably never will. But your review definitely gives me pause. I don't want to play on dirt. Maybe I should call them and try to negotiate a lower rate. Like you, the $50 voucher is worthless to me.

Anyone have any thoughts on this topic? If you were only going to have a chance to play Pasa once, would you go ahead and do so regardless of condition, or cancel and play elsewhere if it's in truly terrible condition?
[/quote]

If you think you will never be back and are comfortable with what you are getting in to than by all means play it. We still had a lot of fun even though we were disappointed with the conditions. It is still a great golf course jut dead grass everywhere.


Even though we didn't play Black horse I have to highly recommend Poppy Hills over it. It is an awesome golf course. All things considered beauty, uniqueness etc I would rank it slightly ahead of even Bayonet (and I have heard that Bayonet is a much better course than Blackhorse). Bayonet may be the better golf course in terms of test of golf but Poppy Hills is a really unique treat that I wouldn't miss on a trip out there

[duffer987]

[quote name='johnnylongball' timestamp='1409683141' post='10050913']
Younggun, thanks for this condition update. We are supposed to be in the area next month for what will very likely be a once in a lifetime trip. We are scheduled to play the same courses that you are, with the exception that we are scheduled for Blackhorse instead of Poppy.

Given Pasatiempo's reputation (top 10 public) I am hesitant to cancel that tee time because I want to play the course and if don't play it on this trip, I probably never will. But your review definitely gives me pause. I don't want to play on dirt. Maybe I should call them and try to negotiate a lower rate. Like you, the $50 voucher is worthless to me.

Anyone have any thoughts on this topic? If you were only going to have a chance to play Pasa once, would you go ahead and do so regardless of condition, or cancel and play elsewhere if it's in truly terrible condition?
[/quote]

Play Pasa.
Play Poppy

If you like a proper pint, stop at [url="http://englishalesbrewery.com/featured-brews/"]English Ales[/url] in Marina, which is just off the highway a couple miles north of Bayonet/Blackhorse

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='johnnylongball' timestamp='1409683141' post='10050913']
Anyone have any thoughts on this topic? If you were only going to have a chance to play Pasa once, would you go ahead and do so regardless of condition, or cancel and play elsewhere if it's in truly terrible condition?
[/quote]

Here are my thoughts... I've never played Pasa but it is on my bucket list. I can offer no input about the current conditions.

But I did notice that the OP's "review" of the course was focused entirely on the visual aesthetic. His experience seems diminished primarily by the lack of the green presentation. No comment on how the brown look affected playability, only that is was visually unappealing. Augusta National was mentioned several times (apparently the reference standard). No other comments about the course design or strategy although in subsequent posts, did admit it's a great golf course and they had fun.

From my perspective, conditioning is but a component of the golf experience but far from the most important one. I'm not terribly squeamish about conditions but I know many people do consider it important. I recognize that visual aesthetics do not necessarily affect playability, in fact, overlush, and soft (but very green) conditions can negatively impact playability.

They do charge a premium fee so it's a personal matter how one perceives the value with less than ideal conditions and I can't minimize the OP's experience. He obviously feels he didn't get his money's worth.

But the language of the review leads me to believe that the importance of conditioning may have been over emphasized, which in my mind may translate to the course not necessarily being in "terrible" shape. There is a drought. The grass is brown. It's still one of the few Alister Mackenzie designs (recently restored by Tom Doak) that is open to the public. Despite the review, I would probably play it tomorrow if offered the chance.

[youngun87]

[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1409781604' post='10059175']
[quote name='johnnylongball' timestamp='1409683141' post='10050913']
Anyone have any thoughts on this topic? If you were only going to have a chance to play Pasa once, would you go ahead and do so regardless of condition, or cancel and play elsewhere if it's in truly terrible condition?
[/quote]

Here are my thoughts... I've never played Pasa but it is on my bucket list. I can offer no input about the current conditions.

But I did notice that the OP's "review" of the course was focused entirely on the visual aesthetic. His experience seems diminished primarily by the lack of the green presentation. No comment on how the brown look affected playability, only that is was visually unappealing. Augusta National was mentioned several times (apparently the reference standard). No other comments about the course design or strategy although in subsequent posts, did admit it's a great golf course and they had fun.

From my perspective, conditioning is but a component of the golf experience but far from the most important one. I'm not terribly squeamish about conditions but I know many people do consider it important. I recognize that visual aesthetics do not necessarily affect playability, in fact, overlush, and soft (but very green) conditions can negatively impact playability.

They do charge a premium fee so it's a personal matter how one perceives the value with less than ideal conditions and I can't minimize the OP's experience. He obviously feels he didn't get his money's worth.

But the language of the review leads me to believe that the importance of conditioning may have been over emphasized, which in my mind may translate to the course not necessarily being in "terrible" shape. There is a drought. The grass is brown. It's still one of the few Alister Mackenzie designs (recently restored by Tom Doak) that is open to the public. Despite the review, I would probably play it tomorrow if offered the chance.
[/quote]


The conditions are terrible by any measure. Playability is affected. Unless you are willing to pick up your ball in the "fairway" and place it on one of the very few patches of actual grass then you will be hitting off of dirt. The rough is dead grass as well and is actually mostly dirt. I mentioned Augusta one time and it was to provide a thinking exercise on how happy one would be if they got to play Augusta when it was dead and mostly dirt compared to when it is lush green. As I stated in the review, I grew up in Texas and courses can be completely green while playing firm. Firm conditions are actually not a product of the grass itself but the underlying soil. I grew up playing courses in the summer months that were completely green but played as firm as a parking lot. I am glad you responded to my "review" though. Visual aesthetics play a huge part to myself and most golfers I know especially when paying a major premium. You may want to pay the full fee to play a course that is shell of what it was meant to be but I would not.

[youngun87]

[quote name='youngun87' timestamp='1409798300' post='10060921']
[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1409781604' post='10059175']
[quote name='johnnylongball' timestamp='1409683141' post='10050913']
Anyone have any thoughts on this topic? If you were only going to have a chance to play Pasa once, would you go ahead and do so regardless of condition, or cancel and play elsewhere if it's in truly terrible condition?
[/quote]

Here are my thoughts... I've never played Pasa but it is on my bucket list. I can offer no input about the current conditions.

But I did notice that the OP's "review" of the course was focused entirely on the visual aesthetic. His experience seems diminished primarily by the lack of the green presentation. No comment on how the brown look affected playability, only that is was visually unappealing. Augusta National was mentioned several times (apparently the reference standard). No other comments about the course design or strategy although in subsequent posts, did admit it's a great golf course and they had fun.

From my perspective, conditioning is but a component of the golf experience but far from the most important one. I'm not terribly squeamish about conditions but I know many people do consider it important. I recognize that visual aesthetics do not necessarily affect playability, in fact, overlush, and soft (but very green) conditions can negatively impact playability.

They do charge a premium fee so it's a personal matter how one perceives the value with less than ideal conditions and I can't minimize the OP's experience. He obviously feels he didn't get his money's worth.

But the language of the review leads me to believe that the importance of conditioning may have been over emphasized, which in my mind may translate to the course not necessarily being in "terrible" shape. There is a drought. The grass is brown. It's still one of the few Alister Mackenzie designs (recently restored by Tom Doak) that is open to the public. Despite the review, I would probably play it tomorrow if offered the chance.
[/quote]


The conditions are terrible by any measure. Playability is affected. Unless you are willing to pick up your ball in the "fairway" and place it on one of the very few patches of actual grass then you will be hitting off of dirt. The rough is dead grass as well and is actually mostly dirt. I mentioned Augusta one time and it was to provide a thinking exercise on how happy one would be if they got to play Augusta when it was dead and mostly dirt compared to when it is lush green. As I stated in the review, I grew up in Texas and courses can be completely green while playing firm. Firm conditions are actually not a product of the grass itself but the underlying soil. I grew up playing courses in the summer months that were completely green but played as firm as a parking lot. I am glad you responded to my "review" though. Visual aesthetics play a huge part to myself and most golfers I know especially when paying a major premium. You may want to pay the full fee to play a course that is shell of what it was meant to be but I would not.


All that said if you think this is a once in a life time opportunity and you will never be back I would play it. The course itself is absolutely fantastic and is a class gem. Plays hard and fast. You just get some very very questionable lies in the "fairways" and rough. My group actually let each other place the ball on the closest living grass when we were on the fairway. We were not plaint in a tournament or anything and did not feel like hitting off of literal dirt when we smoked one down the middle. Greens hold well and, for the most part, the rough around the greens is in good shape
[/quote]

[jptruck]

TeeJayWhy: This course is charging $250 a round to play, or something like that. For that type of money, the experience should be a bit more than just a classic design. Grass is usually called for.

Pasa is a solid course, but it's a bit overrated and absolutely not worth the money in it's current condition. If they get some rain, and are able to re-establish turf, I'd say go and play it once. I'm with the OP on this one, though.