Kelvin Miyahira: pro or con

[ej002]

[quote name='Mcaesq' timestamp='1412261946' post='10223821']
Please lock this abortion of a thread.
[/quote]

You can stop reading it instead - it is very interesting and entertaining. Best thread in a long time if you can follow it.

[ej002]

Okay honest questions here about kelvins article.

The right side bend happening so early gets guys like sadlowski way under. As we know from other sciencitst - underplane create excessive (gamma?) torque. From there his left hip spins out and he has no choice but to chicken wing it to hold the face from rolling over.

That to me sounds COMPLETELY INEFFICIENT. Band aids and gauze to cover up a the initial flaw that allegedly powers the swing.

Am I wrong?

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412262485' post='10223883']
Okay honest questions here about kelvins article.

The right side bend happening so early gets guys like sadlowski way under. As we know from other sciencitst - underplane create excessive (gamma?) torque. From there his left hip spins out and he has no choice but to chicken wing it to hold the face from rolling over.

That to me sounds COMPLETELY INEFFICIENT. Band aids and gauze to cover up a the initial flaw that allegedly powers the swing.

[b]Am I wrong?[/b]
[/quote]

More or less completely. Sadlwoski isn't anywhere near "under":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPx74zqaXBw


Two more examples of how coupled movement of the lumbar spine influences elite golf swings. These two have significant APT, or lumbar lordosis (belt buckle tilting down) and side bend during the downswing, and have really open hips at impact; they also have a similar "reverse" of the hips just after impact when they go into PPT, or lumbar flexion (belt buckle rises) and the counter-clockwise axial torque of the pelvis is released. Since they still have significant right side lateral bend post-impact, moving to PPT could even induce a clockwise torque of the pelvis, contributing to the "reverse".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuEATi-0HMM

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1412258724' post='10223505']
[quote name='RichieHunt' timestamp='1412258137' post='10223433']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412254472' post='10223101']
Again second Fire is Ogrady rip off.
[/quote]

The big picture is that it doesn't matter to me in the end because teachers and researchers often come up with the same conclusions or take it and go with it.

But, I've never been taught anything close to the 'second fire' in MORAD. So I wonder where you get the idea that the second fire theory was ripped off from MORAD?





RH
[/quote]

[b]Mac does it , calls it ramping up the pivot , but only shows it to a select few[/b]
[/quote]


Oh, I see, Kelvin ripped off something only a select few are shown by Mac, who he's never met. Got it.

[Mcaesq]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412262175' post='10223853']
[quote name='Mcaesq' timestamp='1412261946' post='10223821']
Please lock this abortion of a thread.
[/quote]

You can stop reading it instead - it is very interesting and entertaining. Best thread in a long time if you can follow it.
[/quote]

The vast bulk of this thread has nothing to do with the questions raised by the OP. Instead, it spun out into some bizarre cross-forums drama I have no interest in participating in or understanding and some metaphysical nonsense about how proficient an instructor needs to be before engaging with the substance of their ideas. I'd love to continue reading and participating in this thread if it could stay on topic.

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412262485' post='10223883']
Okay honest questions here about kelvins article.

The right side bend happening so early gets guys like sadlowski way under. As we know from other sciencitst - underplane create excessive (gamma?) torque. From there his left hip spins out and he has no choice but to chicken wing it to hold the face from rolling over.

That to me sounds COMPLETELY INEFFICIENT. Band aids and gauze to cover up a the initial flaw that allegedly powers the swing.

Am I wrong?
[/quote]

As I read it, the right side bend helps create space for the arms to clear the right hips. It helps in that a lateral slide will keep the arms in the same position while moving the lower body forward, which makes it more difficult to clear the right side.

edit: the move helps the hands get in line with the chest. I think it's saying the same thing as Monte's "lead with the right elbow" thought in a different way.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1412256500' post='10223269']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412184348' post='10218453']
Mann based much of his critique on this interview with Gracovetsky:

[url="http://www.somatics.de/Gracevetsky_Interview.pdf"]http://www.somatics....y_Interview.pdf[/url]


This is how Gracovetsky describes the role of the spine in locomotion:

ASN: What, then,is the role of the
spine in the locomotion?

SG:[b] I consider the spine to be the
"primary" engine, in the etymological
sense of the word.[/b] This primary engine,
so obvious in our ancestors the fish, has
not travelled towards the lower limbs
over time, although its role has become
more obscure and may appear to be
secondary to the role of the lower limbs.
However, this logic is faulty, as we are
able to "walk" on our knees with
relatively little adaptation, which
demonstrates that our legs are not truly
essential to human locomotion. A
wooden leg is just as effective. It would
be conceivable to cut the femur one
centimeter above the knee without
significantly affecting walking. This
therefore raises the question: how far
can we cut the femur before affecting
human locomotion. The answer is that
the lower extremity can be completely
removed without interfering with the
primary movement of the pelvis. This
statement may appear somewhat
excessive, but it is supported by the
facts.


Note that in the first sentence Gracovetsky says he uses "primary" in the "eytmological sense of the word", i.e., the meaning it had at its origin. Here is the eytomology of "primary":

"[color=#000000]early 15c., 'of the first order,' from Latin [/color][color=#000000][i]primarius '[/i][/color][color=#000000]of the first rank, chief, principal, excellent,' from [/color][color=#000000][i]primus[/i][/color][color=#000000] 'first' (see [/color][url="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=prime&allowed_in_frame=0"]prime[/url][color=#000000] (adj.)). Meaning 'first in order' is from 1802."[/color]

[url="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=primary&searchmode=none"]http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none[/url]

So, either Mann was ignorant of how Gracovetsky was using "primary", or he
[/quote]

Getting back to SG theory . From this information it seems like he is basing the theory on the idea that the spine engine was the " first " engine available for locomotion and subsequent engines became available to man due to evolution .
[b]Surely he would have to prove the theory of evolution to even use it as a platform for the spine engine theory and locomotion[/b]
[/quote]

You're exactly right! Why didn't Jeff Mann think of that? Also, the spine engine theory relies upon the existence of gravity! Surely, Gracovetsky would have to prove gravity exists! Where does he do that??? You've blown the spine engine theory sky high!

[ej002]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412263871' post='10224025']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412262485' post='10223883']
Okay honest questions here about kelvins article.

The right side bend happening so early gets guys like sadlowski way under. As we know from other sciencitst - underplane create excessive (gamma?) torque. From there his left hip spins out and he has no choice but to chicken wing it to hold the face from rolling over.

That to me sounds COMPLETELY INEFFICIENT. Band aids and gauze to cover up a the initial flaw that allegedly powers the swing.

[b]Am I wrong?[/b]
[/quote]

More or less completely. Sadlwoski isn't anywhere near "under":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPx74zqaXBw


Two more examples of how coupled movement of the lumbar spine influences elite golf swings. These two have significant APT, or lumbar lordosis (belt buckle tilting down) and side bend during the downswing, and have really open hips at impact; they also have a similar "reverse" of the hips just after impact when they go into PPT, or lumbar flexion (belt buckle rises) and the counter-clockwise axial torque of the pelvis is released. Since they still have significant right side lateral bend post-impact, moving to PPT could even induce a clockwise torque of the pelvis, contributing to the "reverse".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuEATi-0HMM
[/quote]

The very nature of long drive requires it. He is trying to hit a 48 incher as high as possible. Not completely wrong at all. Doesnt translate well to normal length clubs - so he chicken wings it to "drive hold it".

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1412260585' post='10223655']
I am a fan of Kelvin as I mentioned when I started this topic.
But there are number of questions which all but those completely mesmerized by Kelvin will have
Below are are 2 accomplished Students of Kelvin's
First John Oda ,Hawaiian State high school champion and then Kelvin' penultimate example of his teaching ,Lucas Wald(new swing on the right).I am going to highlight only three points of difference,that is obvious to any observer.Go to their positions at the top.Lucas Wald has a longer backswing,so lets stop his video when he is parallel to the ground(1:41).Look at the angle of their right legs at the top .[b]While both have their their right hip in ER at the top ,Lucas has his right leg much more angled,much closer to Kelvin's model ,Sam Snead.[/b][/quote]

I assume you mean right hip IR.

[quote]Such an angle means more weight into the inside of the right foot at the top.Second look at the left knee.Lucas's is much more bent indicative of more hip turn .Third Lucas Wald's left heel is already coming off of the ground.
Now i understand that Lucas Wald's swing is much more of a finished product and that individual golfers will vary,but a number of golfers who try to follow Kelvin;s instructions.screw up their backswing position.in trying to have get their right hip in ER and their left heel off of the ground.If you watch some of Jeffy's online lessons ,he is clearly having problems getting the right hip in the proper position..

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NetjCk8Y_w0[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBI3Yisz0s[/media]
[/quote]

I've talked to Kelvin about why some of his teenage students have relatively restricted hip turns and he says it is because they are so flexible they are better off without a larger turn. Lucas is in his mid-30s.

Also, as I've mentioned a couple times already in this thread, Lucas very strictly follows the Sadlowski model and Kelvin teaches more individuality. As someone earlier posted, Kelvin made it clear in his most recent article that he doesn't teach to specific models.

Also, check out jeffy's most recent sequence in his swing journal. I think he has right hip IR and the left heel lift covered now.

[url="http://jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?214-jeffy&p=11190#post11190"]http://jeffygolf.com...11190#post11190[/url]

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412264953' post='10224121']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412263871' post='10224025']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412262485' post='10223883']
Okay honest questions here about kelvins article.

The right side bend happening so early gets guys like sadlowski way under. As we know from other sciencitst - underplane create excessive (gamma?) torque. From there his left hip spins out and he has no choice but to chicken wing it to hold the face from rolling over.

That to me sounds COMPLETELY INEFFICIENT. Band aids and gauze to cover up a the initial flaw that allegedly powers the swing.

[b]Am I wrong?[/b]
[/quote]

More or less completely. Sadlwoski isn't anywhere near "under":

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPx74zqaXBw"]https://www.youtube....h?v=yPx74zqaXBw[/url]


Two more examples of how coupled movement of the lumbar spine influences elite golf swings. These two have significant APT, or lumbar lordosis (belt buckle tilting down) and side bend during the downswing, and have really open hips at impact; they also have a similar "reverse" of the hips just after impact when they go into PPT, or lumbar flexion (belt buckle rises) and the counter-clockwise axial torque of the pelvis is released. Since they still have significant right side lateral bend post-impact, moving to PPT could even induce a clockwise torque of the pelvis, contributing to the "reverse".


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuEATi-0HMM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=YuEATi-0HMM[/url]
[/quote]

[b]The very nature of long drive requires it. He is trying to hit a 48 incher as high as possible. Not completely wrong at all. Doesnt translate well to normal length clubs - so he chicken wings it to "drive hold it".[/b]
[/quote]


I have no idea what you are talking about.

[eightiron]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412264160' post='10224049']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1412256500' post='10223269']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412184348' post='10218453']
Mann based much of his critique on this interview with Gracovetsky:

[url="http://www.somatics.de/Gracevetsky_Interview.pdf"]http://www.somatics....y_Interview.pdf[/url]


This is how Gracovetsky describes the role of the spine in locomotion:

ASN: What, then,is the role of the
spine in the locomotion?

SG:[b] I consider the spine to be the
"primary" engine, in the etymological
sense of the word.[/b] This primary engine,
so obvious in our ancestors the fish, has
not travelled towards the lower limbs
over time, although its role has become
more obscure and may appear to be
secondary to the role of the lower limbs.
However, this logic is faulty, as we are
able to "walk" on our knees with
relatively little adaptation, which
demonstrates that our legs are not truly
essential to human locomotion. A
wooden leg is just as effective. It would
be conceivable to cut the femur one
centimeter above the knee without
significantly affecting walking. This
therefore raises the question: how far
can we cut the femur before affecting
human locomotion. The answer is that
the lower extremity can be completely
removed without interfering with the
primary movement of the pelvis. This
statement may appear somewhat
excessive, but it is supported by the
facts.


Note that in the first sentence Gracovetsky says he uses "primary" in the "eytmological sense of the word", i.e., the meaning it had at its origin. Here is the eytomology of "primary":

"[color=#000000]early 15c., 'of the first order,' from Latin [/color][color=#000000][i]primarius '[/i][/color][color=#000000]of the first rank, chief, principal, excellent,' from [/color][color=#000000][i]primus[/i][/color][color=#000000] 'first' (see [/color][url="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=prime&allowed_in_frame=0"]prime[/url][color=#000000] (adj.)). Meaning 'first in order' is from 1802."[/color]

[url="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=primary&searchmode=none"]http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none[/url]

So, either Mann was ignorant of how Gracovetsky was using "primary", or he
[/quote]

Getting back to SG theory . From this information it seems like he is basing the theory on the idea that the spine engine was the " first " engine available for locomotion and subsequent engines became available to man due to evolution .
[b]Surely he would have to prove the theory of evolution to even use it as a platform for the spine engine theory and locomotion[/b]
[/quote]

You're exactly right! Why didn't Jeff Mann think of that? Also, the spine engine theory relies upon the existence of gravity! Surely, Gracovetsky would have to prove gravity exists! Where does he do that??? You've blown the spine engine theory sky high!
[/quote]

Yes , I don't understand Mann's reasoning on this . SG is not saying that the spine engine is the first to fire , he's saying it's the first engine our ancestors had , and that's why he used the word primary in the etymological sense . So SG is definitely using evolution as a platform for his theory . I would not put gravity in the same bracket as evolution . I might be guessing here but surely gravity is a more proven theory

[ej002]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412265734' post='10224201']

I have no idea what you are talking about.
[/quote]

Clearly.

My point is the nature of long drive requires kind of being under b/c they are hitting an extended driver as high as possible. The angle on the swing you posted sucks, but the head is still inside the hand plane = under. And he spins like a top and controls the face with a left bent arm... why chicken wing it? Maybe if he had better control of his left arm, he would be more consistent on his driver.


Not the best angle, but totally different hip action, I can see the extension, no hip spin out crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-OFYFJ3Sc

My point is if Sads attacked from better angles he could fully extend that left arm and be even longer at least more consistent. And not hit one 320 and then 380. That is my opinion, feel free to disagree. But I question the whole spinny left hip and chicken wing on the "drive hold" stuff. Just seem like a medicine cabinet of bandages ... I guess in Sadlowski's situation the bandages and unfolding deck chair are held together with duct tape.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412266594' post='10224293']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412265734' post='10224201']
I have no idea what you are talking about.
[/quote]

Clearly.

My point is the nature of long drive requires kind of being under b/c they are hitting an extended driver as high as possible. The angle on the swing you posted sucks, but the head is still inside the hand plane = under. And he spins like a top and controls the face with a left bent arm... why chicken wing it? Maybe if he had better control of his left arm, he would be more consistent on his driver.


Not the best angle, but totally different hip action, I can see the extension, no hip spin out crap.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-OFYFJ3Sc[/media]

My point is if Sads attacked from better angles he could fully extend that left arm and be even longer at least more consistent. And not hit one 320 and then 380. That is my opinion, feel free to disagree. But I question the whole spinny left hip and chicken wing on the "drive hold" stuff. Just seem like a medicine cabinet of bandages ... I guess in Sadlowski's situation the bandages and unfolding deck chair are held together with duct tape.
[/quote]


Sadlowski would hit it longer and be more accurate if he swung like Tim Burke? I'm feeling very free to disagree with you. Burke is 6' 6" and weighs 245 pounds. Do you think there is a chance he is roided??? Sadlowski, at 5' 10" and 165 pounds, has generated the same CHS and ballspeed as Burke in past competitions.

Biomechanically, Sadlowski's release is more stable than Burke's, so my money would be on Sadlowski as far as hitting fairways go. In a long drive contest against three tour pros, Bubba, DJ and Garrigus, you could have thrown a blanket over Jamie's three drives in the final, right in the center of the fairway at 400 yards. Each of those other guys had at least four inches and 20 pounds on him and they couldn't sniff him. Too bad that tape has been deleted from Youtube.

[ej002]

Dude is a freak, now doubt. But he still chicken wings it to keep it stable. Better mechanics means no squeezing it and a full release. IMO the unfolding deck chair is a power drain.

[Mcaesq]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412266594' post='10224293']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412265734' post='10224201']
I have no idea what you are talking about.
[/quote]

Clearly.

My point is the nature of long drive requires kind of being under b/c they are hitting an extended driver as high as possible. The angle on the swing you posted sucks, but the head is still inside the hand plane = under. And he spins like a top and controls the face with a left bent arm... why chicken wing it? Maybe if he had better control of his left arm, he would be more consistent on his driver.


Not the best angle, but totally different hip action, I can see the extension, no hip spin out crap.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-OFYFJ3Sc[/media]

My point is if Sads attacked from better angles he could fully extend that left arm and be even longer at least more consistent. And not hit one 320 and then 380. That is my opinion, feel free to disagree. But I question the whole spinny left hip and chicken wing on the "drive hold" stuff. Just seem like a medicine cabinet of bandages ... I guess in Sadlowski's situation the bandages and unfolding deck chair are held together with duct tape.
[/quote]

JS using a long drive driver isn't held up as the pinnacle of how you ought to swing; he's used to demonstrate exaggerated versions of what golfers should be doing. His positions aren't as subtle, so it's easier to see the differences.

If you don't begin the backswing by increasing that right side bend (ie, bringing your hands more in line with your chest while not sliding your hips forward), how do you avoid getting your right arm stuck behind your hip? Seems to me that anything else would require very precise arm acceleration to get synced up.

If you disagree with what I said, are concepts/feels like "lead with the right elbow" or "right shoulder down and out" also incorrect? Do you agree that right side bend is supposed to happen? If it happens "too early" in KM's analysis, where do you want to see it occur?

[Noke]

I am fully prepared after this thread to never trust another Jeff in my life.

[eightiron]

Might be useful for punchy elbow type but for pitch elbow may get them inside out

[ej002]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412268078' post='10224437']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412266594' post='10224293']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412265734' post='10224201']
I have no idea what you are talking about.
[/quote]

Clearly.

My point is the nature of long drive requires kind of being under b/c they are hitting an extended driver as high as possible. The angle on the swing you posted sucks, but the head is still inside the hand plane = under. And he spins like a top and controls the face with a left bent arm... why chicken wing it? Maybe if he had better control of his left arm, he would be more consistent on his driver.


Not the best angle, but totally different hip action, I can see the extension, no hip spin out crap.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-OFYFJ3Sc[/media]

My point is if Sads attacked from better angles he could fully extend that left arm and be even longer at least more consistent. And not hit one 320 and then 380. That is my opinion, feel free to disagree. But I question the whole spinny left hip and chicken wing on the "drive hold" stuff. Just seem like a medicine cabinet of bandages ... I guess in Sadlowski's situation the bandages and unfolding deck chair are held together with duct tape.
[/quote]


Sadlowski would hit it longer and be more accurate if he swung like Tim Burke? I'm feeling very free to disagree with you. Burke is 6' 6" and weighs 245 pounds. Do you think there is a chance he is roided??? Sadlowski, at 5' 10" and 165 pounds, has generated the same CHS and ballspeed as Burke in past competitions.

Biomechanically, Sadlowski's release is more stable than Burke's, so my money would be on Sadlowski as far as hitting fairways go. In a long drive contest against three tour pros, Bubba, DJ and Garrigus, you could have thrown a blanket over Jamie's three drives in the final, right in the center of the fairway at 400 yards. Each of those other guys had at least four inches and 20 pounds on him and they couldn't sniff him. Too bad that tape has been deleted from Youtube.
[/quote]

Besides - what does roids do of the swing is powered by the spine? Is this Burke guy sticking needles in his spine? Lol. Right

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412268751' post='10224489']
Dude is a freak, now doubt. But he still chicken wings it to keep it stable. [b]Better mechanics means no squeezing it and a full release.[/b] IMO the unfolding deck chair is a power drain.
[/quote]


He doesn't squeeze it and he has a full release. I guess you just don't understand how he does it. Fair enough. Babe Zaharias released the same way with a bent left arm (in fact, her swing is very similar to Jamie's in a lot of respects) and her distance was legendary; she also won a bunch of majors:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H16o3uudCbo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=H16o3uudCbo[/url]


Home run hitters do something similar with the lead arm:


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo86okpSHoM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Fo86okpSHoM[/url]

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412270273' post='10224629']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412268078' post='10224437']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412266594' post='10224293']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412265734' post='10224201']
I have no idea what you are talking about.
[/quote]

Clearly.

My point is the nature of long drive requires kind of being under b/c they are hitting an extended driver as high as possible. The angle on the swing you posted sucks, but the head is still inside the hand plane = under. And he spins like a top and controls the face with a left bent arm... why chicken wing it? Maybe if he had better control of his left arm, he would be more consistent on his driver.


Not the best angle, but totally different hip action, I can see the extension, no hip spin out crap.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-OFYFJ3Sc[/media]

My point is if Sads attacked from better angles he could fully extend that left arm and be even longer at least more consistent. And not hit one 320 and then 380. That is my opinion, feel free to disagree. But I question the whole spinny left hip and chicken wing on the "drive hold" stuff. Just seem like a medicine cabinet of bandages ... I guess in Sadlowski's situation the bandages and unfolding deck chair are held together with duct tape.
[/quote]


Sadlowski would hit it longer and be more accurate if he swung like Tim Burke? I'm feeling very free to disagree with you. Burke is 6' 6" and weighs 245 pounds. Do you think there is a chance he is roided??? Sadlowski, at 5' 10" and 165 pounds, has generated the same CHS and ballspeed as Burke in past competitions.

Biomechanically, Sadlowski's release is more stable than Burke's, so my money would be on Sadlowski as far as hitting fairways go. In a long drive contest against three tour pros, Bubba, DJ and Garrigus, you could have thrown a blanket over Jamie's three drives in the final, right in the center of the fairway at 400 yards. Each of those other guys had at least four inches and 20 pounds on him and they couldn't sniff him. Too bad that tape has been deleted from Youtube.
[/quote]

[b]Besides - what does roids do of the swing is powered by the spine? Is this Burke guy sticking needles in his spine? [/b] Lol. Right
[/quote]

Don't forget the "fearsome foursome" and the "second fire". You're starting to act like Jeff Mann.

[ej002]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412270274' post='10224631']
He doesn't squeeze it and he has a full release. I guess you just don't understand how he does it. Fair enough. Babe Zaharias released the same way with a bent left arm (in fact, her swing is very similar to Jamie's in a lot of respects) and her distance was legendary; she also won a bunch of majors:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H16o3uudCbo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=H16o3uudCbo[/url]


Home run hitters do something similar with the lead arm:


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo86okpSHoM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Fo86okpSHoM[/url]
[/quote]

Please tell me that is a joke right?

Home run hitter need to compensate for inside/oustide pitches. And just because a homerun hit with a bent elbow doesn't mean that is the longest capable homerun either. It just means that a guy hit a ball over an arbitrary line. Like sadlowski can hit it over a 300 yard line with probably a 45* bent left elbow. If it was straight maybe 420... More logic tricks, but I don't fall for that stuff.

[scotee]

Quote:
[color=#282828]Also, check out jeffy's most recent sequence in his swing journal. I think he has right hip IR and the left heel lift covered now.[/color]

[url="http://jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?214-jeffy&p=11190#post11190"]http://jeffygolf.com...11190#post11190[/url]

.....and I thought I had a strong grip!

[attachment=2442109:Screen Shot 2014-10-02 at 10.05.42 AM.png]

[tembolo1284]

So now we got a guy that wants a chicken wing?

Time to go balls deep on him EJ.

[ej002]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412270441' post='10224643']

Don't forget the "fearsome foursome" and the "second fire". You're starting to act like Jeff Mann.
[/quote]

So you talk roids and all of a sudden the spine is not that important?

Why don't you just admit that the spine engine stuff accounts for like less than 5% of any power so we can all go home on this thread.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412270635' post='10224663']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412270274' post='10224631']
He doesn't squeeze it and he has a full release. I guess you just don't understand how he does it. Fair enough. Babe Zaharias released the same way with a bent left arm (in fact, her swing is very similar to Jamie's in a lot of respects) and her distance was legendary; she also won a bunch of majors:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H16o3uudCbo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=H16o3uudCbo[/url]


Home run hitters do something similar with the lead arm:


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo86okpSHoM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Fo86okpSHoM[/url]
[/quote]

[b]Please tell me that is a joke right? [/b][/quote]

No, it's not. Lot of similarities between the baseball swing and the golf swing.

[quote]Home run hitter need to compensate for inside/oustide pitches. And just because a homerun hit with a bent elbow doesn't mean that is the longest capable homerun either. It just means that a guy hit a ball over an arbitrary line. Like sadlowski can hit it over a 300 yard line with probably a 45* bent left elbow. If it was straight maybe 420... [b] More logic tricks, but I don't fall for that stuff.[/b]
[/quote]


I'm not using any logic tricks, I'm passing along things that Lucas has told me that he's learned while studying elite athletes in a variety of sports. You should be grateful: I have to pay him for that information!

John Novosel has told Lucas that straightening the left arm at impact (which Lucas and Rory both do) adds clubhead speed, but he's skeptical. He'd rather do it like Jamie, but can't at full speed.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412270914' post='10224689']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412270441' post='10224643']
Don't forget the "fearsome foursome" and the "second fire". You're starting to act like Jeff Mann.
[/quote]

[b]So you talk roids and all of a sudden the spine is not that important?[/b]

Why don't you just admit that the spine engine stuff accounts for like less than 5% of any power so we can all go home on this thread.
[/quote]

Where did I say the spine engine wasn't important? Don't try to pull your "logic tricks" on me!!!

Maybe you missed it, but I posted yesterday in one of my exchanges with eightiron that the big muscles of the legs and hips amplify the power generated by the spine engine, and that the spine engine is obviously a secondary source of power. Of course, some roided up guy with massive back muscles will juice the spine engine's contributions, just like it will juice the power of the arms, legs, hips, etc.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412271675' post='10224747']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1412270635' post='10224663']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412270274' post='10224631']
He doesn't squeeze it and he has a full release. I guess you just don't understand how he does it. Fair enough. Babe Zaharias released the same way with a bent left arm (in fact, her swing is very similar to Jamie's in a lot of respects) and her distance was legendary; she also won a bunch of majors:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H16o3uudCbo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=H16o3uudCbo[/url]


Home run hitters do something similar with the lead arm:


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo86okpSHoM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Fo86okpSHoM[/url]
[/quote]

[b]Please tell me that is a joke right? [/b][/quote]

[u][b]No, it's not. Lot of similarities between the baseball swing and the golf swing.[/b][/u]

[quote]Home run hitter need to compensate for inside/oustide pitches. And just because a homerun hit with a bent elbow doesn't mean that is the longest capable homerun either. It just means that a guy hit a ball over an arbitrary line. Like sadlowski can hit it over a 300 yard line with probably a 45* bent left elbow. If it was straight maybe 420... [b] More logic tricks, but I don't fall for that stuff.[/b]
[/quote]


I'm not using any logic tricks, I'm passing along things that Lucas has told me that he's learned while studying elite athletes in a variety of sports. You should be grateful: I have to pay him for that information!

John Novosel has told Lucas that straightening the left arm at impact (which Lucas and Rory both do) adds clubhead speed, but he's skeptical. He'd rather do it like Jamie, but can't at full speed.
[/quote]

yet that doesn't mean each piece is viable for golf... A baseball player is trying to hit a ball located at a changing position. A golfer is not.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='scotee' timestamp='1412270742' post='10224673']
Quote:
[color=#282828]Also, check out jeffy's most recent sequence in his swing journal. I think he has right hip IR and the left heel lift covered now.[/color]

[url="http://jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?214-jeffy&p=11190#post11190"]http://jeffygolf.com...11190#post11190[/url]

.....and I thought I had a strong grip!

[attachment=2442109:Screen Shot 2014-10-02 at 10.05.42 AM.png]
[/quote]


I love it.

[eightiron]

How much power does the spine engine add to walking . I doing the treadmill right and all the work or nearly all is being done by my hips and legs

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1412272397' post='10224821']
How much power does the spine engine add to walking . I doing the treadmill right and all the work or nearly all is being done by my hips and legs
[/quote]

Gracovetsky does some calculations in the book. Basically it generate's what's needed to axially rotate the spine and the pelvis. Lot's of interesting things about energy conservation, using the earth's gravitational field and the elastic nature of tendons, ligaments and fascia. Human walking is a very energy efficient means of locomotion.

[vinax]

Kelvin Miyahira should coach tiger woods.

Tiger Woods could use his speed chain to gain back his explosiveness.

He could take 64000 frames per second videos of tigers TRAJ.

They would get along so well together because they both love technology so much.

[u][b]But seriously - Kelvin Miyahiras articles are freaking awesome... just awesome. [NO PUN INTENDED][/b][/u]