Poppy Hills Review 8/30/14

[poppyhillsguy]

I played Poppy Hills this Saturday, August 30 for the first time since the redesign. There are some things I like about the new design and some things that made me feel "Robert Trent Jones messed it up again". One playing partner commented that Robert Trent Jones has a great racket; screw-up the original design so to can get another job trying to fix your original screw-up.

 

The driving range is improved. No more mats; nothing but hitting off grass. The putting green has a lot of slope in it which I've never been a fan of regarding a practice putting green

 

Tee'd off at 1pm and finish at 6:45pm. 5 hours and 45 minutes. There are a couple of factors here: 1. It was a Saturday on a Holiday weekend, 2. The course is cart path only, so there is a lot of walking back and forth. One of the members in my group had played the redesign approx. 15 times and said that even during the week, his fast round has been 5 hours 15 minutes. I believe the new design is harder than the original design and that is a possible cause for the slow play.

 

Poppy Hills has increased the level of service. Range balls are now included in your green fee. There is a person at the bag drop and a starter which wasn't the case with the old Poppy Hills.

 

The green construction is still Poppy Hills biggest issue. A lot of the greens fall off on all sides and the greens (since they are new) are incredibly firm. My playing partners watched shot after shot land on the green or in front of the green and roll all the way off the back side. Since there is no rough, the ball would roll down hillsides some 10-30 yards from the green. If the greens don't soften-up in time, I see possible changes reducing the slopes which can be severe. The greens do roll beautifully.

 

How firm were the greens? You could not get a tee in the ground to fix your ball mark.

 

There are holes like number 1 where they reduced mounding and 3 where the hill on the left is fairway which allows the ball to roll toward the middle of the fairway.

 

My favorite hole on the course before the redesign was number 10. A good drive would tempt you into hitting a shot over water to the green. The green has been moved back 20-30 yards and is elevated, so it's a boring 3 shot hole now.

 

The new 12th hole is another example of Jones making the course too hard for the average golfer. It is a very tight driving hole with fairway bunkers lining both sides of the fairway. The hole looks pretty if you took a picture, but the driving area is probably 15 yards wide with OB down the right side (the same side with the cart path).

 

9 and 18 is another example of doing to much with the design. Both par 5's feature bunkers in the middle of the landing areas. I'm not a fan of bunkers or trees in the middle of fairways. If the average golfer hits it down the middle they should be rewarded.

 

Unfortunately, Poppy Hills no longer offers twilight rates.

 

My overall impression is that the NCGA wanted to redesign Poppy Hills, so it is back in the elite list of courses on the Monterey Peninsula, and they spared no expense. 1 of the 3 guys playing, the one who played it 15 times, said he is done with it and will not play Poppy Hills for a long time. The other two players enjoyed themselves, but were very frustrated by the greens.

 

I'm glad I played the redesigned Poppy Hills, but I don't think I'll be back for a long time.

[poppyhillsguy]

(I had a few more photo's, but I'm getting the WRX error message about file sizes. Those pic.'s are posted on Yelp if you'd like to see them.)

[oregongolf]

Nice review. I used to enjoy Poppy 10 years ago at the NCGA rate, but I'm not sure I would pay nearly $100 for a 6 hour weekend round there.

It definitely looks prettier though.

[poppyhillsguy]

[quote name='oregongolf' timestamp='1409596405' post='10045279']
Nice review. I used to enjoy Poppy 10 years ago at the NCGA rate, but I'm not sure I would pay nearly $100 for a 6 hour weekend round there.

It definitely looks prettier though.
[/quote]

Poppy use to have a Sunset Rate of $25 starting at 5pm. You could tee off in the summer months at 5pm and be off the course by 7:45pm-8:15pm. I'm afraid those days are gone.

[GWD]

Thanks for the review.

Such efforts provide valuable information for fellow golfers that intend on making a trip to the area.

As such, I'll give it a few years before playing. If I survive that long!

[2putttom]

How the hell did they get room to move #10 30 yards back? So; ya gonna change your name from Poppy hills guy to Monterey peninsula guy?

[callawayjay]

Hard greens aren't a real issue considering you are supposed to have options, ie keeping the ball on the ground. Expecting lush soft greens when they worked so hard making the course "fast" is probably not a real good expectation.

I do expect they will get softer over time. Most young greens are firm

I'll be there a week from today so I can post my thoughts too

[poppyhillsguy]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1409606935' post='10046035']
Hard greens aren't a real issue considering you are supposed to have options, ie keeping the ball on the ground. Expecting lush soft greens when they worked so hard making the course "fast" is probably not a real good expectation.

I do expect they will get softer over time. Most young greens are firm

I'll be there a week from today so I can post my thoughts too
[/quote]

How are you suppose to keep the ball on the ground to an elevated green or a green that has a bunker in front? You have no other option then to send it in high.

Elevated greens: 3 (elevated), 4 (elevated and bunker in front), 7 (elevated with bunker protecting the front, left side), 10 (elevated and bunker in front), 11 (surrounded by bunkers), 13 (elevated and bunker protected on the front right), 14 (elevated), 16 (bunker in front), 18 (elevated and bunkers in front).

That is 9 holes that you can not land short of and expect it to release on the green.

I'm looking forward to your impression and other peoples impression of the course. Please post in this thread.

[poppyhillsguy]

10th green has been moved back and to the right. It is one of the smallest greens on the course with a bunker in the front that will see a lot of action. The lake comes into play for the layup shot, but not the shot into the green.

(It's a shame I can't load these pictures to show people.)

[oregongolf]

10th green has been moved back and to the right. It is one of the smallest greens on the course with a bunker in the front that will see a lot of action. The lake comes into play for the layup shot, but not the shot into the green.

 

(It's a shame I can't load these pictures to show people.)

 

Sounds like an abomination to me... I never thought Poppy was terrible as it was, just that the conditioning and drainage needed to be updated. If you could physically pick it up and move the whole site off of the Pebble Beach property, it wouldn't be such a stepchild.

 

 

 

Upload them to an image host like imgur or photobucket, then use the tag to post them here.

[2putttom]

Damn I really enjoyed the inticing approach off the tee...smack a three wood clean and catch the back slope or a smooth five fade to the front and a two putt. Now a bunker and a small left to right target for me...hmmm, with a lay up in mind too much thinking.

[puttnforthe8]

ugh....5:45 round...that sux...i'm playing in 2 weeks and will be pretty peeved at 545!!!! With the increased level of service, are they not doing anything about POP??? Did you say something after your round PPG?

[poppyhillsguy]

[quote name='puttnforthe8' timestamp='1409629750' post='10048079']
ugh....5:45 round...that sux...i'm playing in 2 weeks and will be pretty peeved at 545!!!! With the increased level of service, are they not doing anything about POP??? Did you say something after your round PPG?
[/quote]

They have Marshals on the course, but the guy in the cart with me joked that every time he drove by he made a point not to make eye contact. The guy I was playing with called the shop to complain, but I didn't bother to ask what the shop said.

I didn't have time to say anything after the round. My wife and two boys were standing on the deck watching me play up 18. They might have been holding signs saying "IT'S DINNERTIME" and "WHILE WE'RE YOUNG".

Puttnforthe 8; I'll look forward to hearing your feedback to the course changes and pace of play.

[poppyhillsguy]

[quote name='2putttom' timestamp='1409627258' post='10047935']
Damn I really enjoyed the inticing approach off the tee...smack a three wood clean and catch the back slope or a smooth five fade to the front and a two putt. Now a bunker and a small left to right target for me...hmmm, with a lay up in mind too much thinking.
[/quote]

The landing area on the tee shot on 10 plays much tighter because of the firm conditions. 2 of the 4 players in the group hit little draws that rolled 100 yards and we found them OB on the left. The miss is still to the right side.

[duffer987]

Firstly, excellent overview of all the changes here from the folks that worked on it:
[url="http://renovation.poppyhillsgolf.com/2014/03/07/done-every-hole-poppy-hills/"]http://renovation.po...le-poppy-hills/[/url]

Now I'll throw in a few POVs based on what I've quoted below

[quote name='poppyhillsguy' timestamp='1409594576' post='10045159']
Tee'd off at 1pm and finish at 6:45pm. 5 hours and 45 minutes. There are a couple of factors here: 1. It was a Saturday on a Holiday weekend, 2. The course is cart path only, so there is a lot of walking back and forth. One of the members in my group had played the redesign approx. 15 times and said that even during the week, his fast round has been 5 hours 15 minutes. I believe the new design is harder than the original design and that is a possible cause for the slow play.

The green construction is still Poppy Hills biggest issue. A lot of the greens fall off on all sides and the greens (since they are new) are incredibly firm. My playing partners watched shot after shot land on the green or in front of the green and roll all the way off the back side. Since there is no rough, the ball would roll down hillsides some 10-30 yards from the green. If the greens don't soften-up in time, I see possible changes reducing the slopes which can be severe. The greens do roll beautifully.

How firm were the greens? You could not get a tee in the ground to fix your ball mark.

There are holes like number 1 where they reduced mounding and 3 where the hill on the left is fairway which allows the ball to roll toward the middle of the fairway.

My favorite hole on the course before the redesign was number 10. A good drive would tempt you into hitting a shot over water to the green. The green has been moved back 20-30 yards and is elevated, so it's a boring 3 shot hole now.

The new 12th hole is another example of Jones making the course too hard for the average golfer. It is a very tight driving hole with fairway bunkers lining both sides of the fairway. The hole looks pretty if you took a picture, but the driving area is probably 15 yards wide with OB down the right side (the same side with the cart path).

9 and 18 is another example of doing to much with the design. Both par 5's feature bunkers in the middle of the landing areas. I'm not a fan of bunkers or trees in the middle of fairways. If the average golfer hits it down the middle they should be rewarded.

Unfortunately, Poppy Hills no longer offers twilight rates.

I'm glad I played the redesigned Poppy Hills, but I don't think I'll be back for a long time.
[/quote]

Cart path only is a necessary evil I suppose of the reopening and protecting the course. Of course it's walkable (which we did) and the game is better enjoyed that way, so if it encouraged more people to that, that would be great.
We tee'd off on the July 4th weekend at 7:50am and we we're putting our gear in the car by 12:30pm.

Greens will hopefully always be firm - although yes right now as they bed in they may be too firm. That said, it sounds like either your playing partners are hitting from the wrong tees and/or cannot elevate the ball. Do they have the same issues on the back 9 at Pacific Grove? Would assume they do. If you cannot get the ball in the air, or conversely know how to play a ground game, then yes you are going to struggle.
BTW, use a divot tool, not a tee

OK. #10 is a boring three-shotter for you. At 514/489/458yds, with the option to sling a draw in there, it won't be for many many others.

#12 is great. Reminds me a bit of Bayonet, in that you require a good teeshot. Not an OK one, but a good or gooderer one. Draw it over the first bunker and short of the third or play a cut off the second bunker, depending on you shot shape.

#18's bunkers are in the crook of the dogleg and then framing the far side of it.
#9 is a massively wide fairway. Without that bunker to add some pressure to the swing, I don't know how you would miss. There is a ton of room to go right and if you are not going to go for the green in two. Simply land it short.

[quote name='poppyhillsguy' timestamp='1409614775' post='10046727']
[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1409606935' post='10046035']
Hard greens aren't a real issue considering you are supposed to have options, ie keeping the ball on the ground. Expecting lush soft greens when they worked so hard making the course "fast" is probably not a real good expectation.

I do expect they will get softer over time. Most young greens are firm

I'll be there a week from today so I can post my thoughts too
[/quote]

How are you suppose to keep the ball on the ground to an elevated green or a green that has a bunker in front? You have no other option then to send it in high.

Elevated greens: 3 (elevated), 4 (elevated and bunker in front), 7 (elevated with bunker protecting the front, left side), 10 (elevated and bunker in front), 11 (surrounded by bunkers), 13 (elevated and bunker protected on the front right), 14 (elevated), 16 (bunker in front), 18 (elevated and bunkers in front).

That is 9 holes that you can not land short of and expect it to release on the green.

I'm looking forward to your impression and other peoples impression of the course. Please post in this thread.
[/quote]

You don't know what an elevated green is. Some are crowned yes. But 'elevated'? No. #2 at Spyglass. Now that's elevated.
7 would be a tricky one to run one on, but that's because the opening is not that big.

11 is a short par 3 surrounded by bunkers. 14, yes that's not really accessible via the ground. I'd actually say 17 - another par 3 - needs to be approached via the air. Surprised you missed that one, give the amazingly loose criteria. 18 being a par 5, you can have a very short 3rd to still hit it in regulation.

So that is 3 maybe 4 by my count

Fortunately I am not encumbered by the baggage of the old version, only having played it once before it closed for renos.
Hopefully you give it another shot later in the year and maybe it will grow on you!

[poppyhillsguy]

I hope it does grow on me. I'm sure I'll play it again much further down the road.

Regarding your comment about the back nine at Pacific Grove, PG is a very short course. A single digit hdcp. player will probably hit wedge into every green except 15 and 17.

[duffer987]

^Sure you're not wrong there; it certainly is. I was thinking more just from knowing how to shape a shot in there.
On Saturday, with the exception of 14 and 17, I played knock down and rolls into all the greens even with 9s and PWs.

Be interesting to see how the old fellas get on later this month. Yes I know they are just a touch better than us, but will be interestingly nonetheless

[callawayjay]

The greens are hard. No doubt. Once I adjusted to them it was ok. Very good to putt on. The only green I had an issue with was 15. All 3 of us hit shots to a back left pin and landed mid front right and all of us rolled off the back.

Great redesign. Fantastic fun. 4 hour and 30 minute round teeing off at 110

[falken19150]

Played it right after the grand opening. Couple of things I noted:

1) Greens are rock hard. Almost ridiculous.
2) Have to land approach shots on most holes 20-30 yards short and let them roll onto the green
3) There are a lot more sand traps on the course.
4) My round was 6 hours 10 mins on a Saturday.

I don't know what it is about that course but the round times are completely ridiculous. There's too many people that are there to "bucket list" it and end up playing really slow. Its just not worth the 2 hour drive from SF to go down there. I would rather deal with Harding Park.

[callawayjay]

I completely agree that the greens are hard. Borderline unfair. But after knowing that info I ended up playing short and using the angles around the greens to play the shot on the putting surface. It was obvious that landing them directly was futile.

[questfor80sf]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1409606935' post='10046035']
Hard greens aren't a real issue considering you are supposed to have options, ie keeping the ball on the ground. Expecting lush soft greens when they worked so hard making the course "fast" is probably not a real good expectation.

I do expect they will get softer over time. Most young greens are firm

I'll be there a week from today so I can post my thoughts too
[/quote]

I strongly disagree with this. I played a couple months back pretty much every hole followed the same formula.

Bunker blocking one side of the front of the green. Pin tucked right behind that bunker. I can think of 2-3 shots all day where we had an option to run it up and the ball wouldn't be 100ft from the pin. Almost every pin location required a high, quick stopping shot. This was absolutely impossible on the greens with how firm they were, and almost every shot ended up over the back of the green. Was super lame.

[callawayjay]

I didn't run them all up. I used the angles to the green sides.

They were too hard. No doubt. Still a great time and a whole lotta fun.

[vwgolfer]

HUH? The only elevated greens that I remember were 10 and 13. I thought the course was great. And I kinda disagree with most of what the OP said. This course is pretty fair for the average golfer. no rough fairways wide. You are kinda way off. What kind of course do you think is fair? Cart path only slows things down. Pace of play was good for us but we teed off at 740.

[kekoa]

Are the greens supposed to play so hard or will they soften up with time? If its the latter, I'll likely wait to play the new Poppy.


Btw, thanks for the rewview PoppyHillsguy.

[vwgolfer]

Its called firm and fast. The greens were slow in compared to the run out that pitiches took. the course may take time to mature. But it was in fabulous shape and a very very fair course. The greens were softened in the renovation so I have no idea How anyone could say they were better before. The guy who said he is not going back is ignorant and frankly must be blind. A very very good course.

[mneumann]

I like the new version better with a couple exceptions.

Played in June yes the greens were hard, hopefully they soften up a little over time but didn't find them unplayable.

I think 1 is a better hole now with a softened dogleg and less mounding. However we had one guy in our group hit a great drive nice cut down the center that kicked right and rolled into the hazard due to lack of rough. Kinda unfair.

I like the redesign of 5 without the water up the right side. Always thought that hole was too tight.

9 is a nice change without the down and then back up of the long 2nd or layup. Also doesn't seem to penalize a draw into the green as much with the tree on the right of the fairway on the approach.

12 is stupid and the right side of the hole needs to be changed to lateral hazard instead of ob given the width and firmness of the fairway. We had 2 similar so so drives on this hole hit the fairway and kick right, mine luckily caught the curb of the cart path and rolled all the way around behind the back of the green (first 400 yd drive ever woo boo). Another on the same line and trajectory jumped the curb ob. Tough to have to retee when you hit the fairway.

I don't like the par 3s at all. Feel like they lost a lot of character especially 6 with the removal of the mound in front of the green and 11 being completely hacked up. Besides #2 the rest of the par 3s feel very simplified and forgetable.

Definitely feel it's overall easier and I think I bested my previous best score there by 10 strokes. I've never played the course well in the past due to running out of fairway into the forest on a lot of holes which has been bettered for me at least. I think playing it again will be even easier now that I know some things better.

If you are only going to play it once, would definitely wait another year or two to see if it softens some around the greens

[poppyhillsguy]

[quote name='mneumann' timestamp='1413921775' post='10327851']
I like the new version better with a couple exceptions.

Played in June yes the greens were hard, hopefully they soften up a little over time but didn't find them unplayable.

I think 1 is a better hole now with a softened dogleg and less mounding. However we had one guy in our group hit a great drive nice cut down the center that kicked right and rolled into the hazard due to lack of rough. Kinda unfair.

I like the redesign of 5 without the water up the right side. Always thought that hole was too tight.

9 is a nice change without the down and then back up of the long 2nd or layup. Also doesn't seem to penalize a draw into the green as much with the tree on the right of the fairway on the approach.

12 is stupid and the right side of the hole needs to be changed to lateral hazard instead of ob given the width and firmness of the fairway. We had 2 similar so so drives on this hole hit the fairway and kick right, mine luckily caught the curb of the cart path and rolled all the way around behind the back of the green (first 400 yd drive ever woo boo). Another on the same line and trajectory jumped the curb ob. Tough to have to retee when you hit the fairway.

I don't like the par 3s at all. Feel like they lost a lot of character especially 6 with the removal of the mound in front of the green and 11 being completely hacked up. Besides #2 the rest of the par 3s feel very simplified and forgetable.

Definitely feel it's overall easier and I think I bested my previous best score there by 10 strokes. I've never played the course well in the past due to running out of fairway into the forest on a lot of holes which has been bettered for me at least. I think playing it again will be even easier now that I know some things better.

If you are only going to play it once, would definitely wait another year or two to see if it softens some around the greens
[/quote]

I remember when the NCGA showed the blue print design of 12 on Facebook. I posted that a cart path should never be next to the OB like that and the cart path should be moved to the left side of the hole. Oh well. That hole is way too tight.