Mesquite/St George

[Par Fore]

Good report. I agree with everything that you said. It seems like Conestoga has some overbearing marshalls/starters. I have had a few unfriendly conversations with one or two in the past. I think that they are very busy at times and are heavy handed on speeding up play, even if play is not slow. If I were to add a suggestion it wold be to play the Ledges. That course has been in the best shape that I have seen it in this fall.

Glad that you had fun.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='Par Fore' timestamp='1416187817' post='10457967']
Good report. I agree with everything that you said. It seems like Conestoga has some overbearing marshalls/starters. I have had a few unfriendly conversations with one or two in the past. I think that they are very busy at times and are heavy handed on speeding up play, even if play is not slow. If I were to add a suggestion it wold be to play the Ledges. That course has been in the best shape that I have seen it in this fall.

Glad that you had fun.
[/quote]

Thanks Par,

The starter was pretty decent until we moved back a teebox from the one he recommended. You could tell it pissed him off. Most of our group is under 15 handicap, and the two higher ones always moved up. But I watched his reaction, he didn't like it.

I know they've played the Ledges in the past but I don't if it is in the regular rotation. I know the Oasis courses do get played and Wold Creek is only in about every third or fourth year. Seems like you could base your trip out of St George, there are enough good courses there (since I don't gamble much I don't need the casino).

[The Pearl]

[quote name='Par Fore' timestamp='1416187817' post='10457967']
Good report. I agree with everything that you said. It seems like Conestoga has some overbearing marshalls/starters. I have had a few unfriendly conversations with one or two in the past. I think that they are very busy at times and are heavy handed on speeding up play, even if play is not slow. If I were to add a suggestion it wold be to play the Ledges. That course has been in the best shape that I have seen it in this fall.

Glad that you had fun.
[/quote]

I am not sure what their issue is, but we had the same experience last year. We played in January on a pretty chilly day. We had 3 foursome's and went off about 9:00am. There was nobody in front of our first group. I was in the last group. There was a 3some behind us of one gentlemen and 2 gals. They never got closer to us than 1 hole and they never waited a shot. We also never waited for our pals in front of us. We were on a 4 hour pace which is not running around, but playing at a nice, relaxed tempo.

About hole 13 the marshal drove up to our first group and flipped out. It was totally uncalled for and unjustifiable. The first group took it in stride and kind of blew it off, but he came back 2 holes later and as you can imagine it got ugly.

[mlesser]

Heading this way over Thanksgiving thanks for all the latest updates. I really thought about playing Wolf Creek again, but if it isn't in the best shape I might have to pass and do not know if I am in the mood for another 5+ hour round.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='mlesser' timestamp='1416325368' post='10466371']
Heading this way over Thanksgiving thanks for all the latest updates. I really thought about playing Wolf Creek again, but if it isn't in the best shape I might have to pass and do not know if I am in the mood for another 5+ hour round.
[/quote]

There was no problem with the conditioning at Wolf Creek, the course was great.

I think we were the second group out so it wasn't 5 1/2 for us. We were done in just a touch over four, waited for our other two groups, settled bets, had lunch and then went out for a replay. We did get held up on our second round, didn't get to play number 18.

If you haven't played it, you should at least once. Then you can decide if it is for you or not.

[deadsolid...shank]

Something else I noticed down there was a lot of fairway bunkers sitting in the 240-270 yard range. On a good swing and strike, my typical driver carry is in the 260 range. I'm not used to this at all, it really had an impact for me. I ended up hitting a lot of three woods. I have to admit it's kind of fun and different to actually have to stop and think and not just grab driver every hole.

Our courses are pretty simple, why our handicaps don't travel real well.

[dmblanch]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1416182707' post='10457481']
We had a terrific trip. I guess I'm not an overly picky or discriminating person (I liked my burger at Red Robin better than my ribeye at the restaraunt in the Casablanca), I liked all seven courses we played. I didn't find anything wrong with conditions on any of them other than the shaggy fairways at Casa Blanca (which really surprised me as they just played the Nevada Open there the three days prior).

It's really, really hard to beats the greens at Coral Canyon and Sand Hollow, they just roll so pure. And such great views. I am pleased to report I managed to NOT hit my ball over the cliff on #12 at Sand Hollow.

Casa Blanca really gave me the feel of the old phoenix courses I used to play, almost a nostalgic feeling. Although I can certainly make do without the Bermuda, I had forgotten how the ball just disappears.

Falcon Ridge, I can actually remember several of the holes, and it was the first one we played. I just liked that course.

Coyote Springs was probably my favorite. I really liked the options a lot of the holes presented. An aggressive line off the tee was rewarded with a really good look at the pin, or take the safe play off the tee and have work to do to get the ball close. Greens are definitely a challenge.

Oddly enough, the two at the bottom of my list would,be Wolf Creek and Conestoga. We just got the vibe at Conestoga that we really weren't welcome there, tolerated at best. I struggled there with the bunkers, no sand and I struggled to be able to get the club down and through.
Wolf Creek just seemed so severe. Anyone shooting under par there from the tips has my admiration.

My order to play next year (and green fee is a factor) would be: Coyote Springs, Coral Canyon, Sand Hollow, Casa Blanca, falcon Ridge, WC, and Conestoga

But I wouldn't turn any of them down. Especially with the 75-80 degree weather. Our car recorded temps down to 21 below on our drive home.
[/quote]

Thanks for the very good report from somebody who has ACTUALLY played at the courses. (I got the feeling that a few reviewers hadn't really been there.)

You highlight a very good point -- that NONE of the courses in the M/SG area are actually bad. All are visually stimulating and can be fun. I'd even go so far as to say the same thing about the Palms. It has a couple of tricky holes that make me itch to go back and whup 'em the next time.

You could easily do another trip and play the SG courses you missed this time and not duplicate: Sky Harbor, Green Springs, Valderra, Sunbrook, Oasis etc. and you wouldn't regret it.

What seems to be the determining factor in our enjoyment of the course are the people running the show. Which jives with why I don't like Coral Canyon. Played there 3 times and had miserable staff experiences all three times.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='dmblanch' timestamp='1416349298' post='10468815']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1416182707' post='10457481']
We had a terrific trip. I guess I'm not an overly picky or discriminating person (I liked my burger at Red Robin better than my ribeye at the restaraunt in the Casablanca), I liked all seven courses we played. I didn't find anything wrong with conditions on any of them other than the shaggy fairways at Casa Blanca (which really surprised me as they just played the Nevada Open there the three days prior).

It's really, really hard to beats the greens at Coral Canyon and Sand Hollow, they just roll so pure. And such great views. I am pleased to report I managed to NOT hit my ball over the cliff on #12 at Sand Hollow.

Casa Blanca really gave me the feel of the old phoenix courses I used to play, almost a nostalgic feeling. Although I can certainly make do without the Bermuda, I had forgotten how the ball just disappears.

Falcon Ridge, I can actually remember several of the holes, and it was the first one we played. I just liked that course.

Coyote Springs was probably my favorite. I really liked the options a lot of the holes presented. An aggressive line off the tee was rewarded with a really good look at the pin, or take the safe play off the tee and have work to do to get the ball close. Greens are definitely a challenge.

Oddly enough, the two at the bottom of my list would,be Wolf Creek and Conestoga. We just got the vibe at Conestoga that we really weren't welcome there, tolerated at best. I struggled there with the bunkers, no sand and I struggled to be able to get the club down and through.
Wolf Creek just seemed so severe. Anyone shooting under par there from the tips has my admiration.

My order to play next year (and green fee is a factor) would be: Coyote Springs, Coral Canyon, Sand Hollow, Casa Blanca, falcon Ridge, WC, and Conestoga

But I wouldn't turn any of them down. Especially with the 75-80 degree weather. Our car recorded temps down to 21 below on our drive home.
[/quote]

Thanks for the very good report from somebody who has ACTUALLY played at the courses. (I got the feeling that a few reviewers hadn't really been there.)

You highlight a very good point -- that NONE of the courses in the M/SG area are actually bad. All are visually stimulating and can be fun. I'd even go so far as to say the same thing about the Palms. It has a couple of tricky holes that make me itch to go back and whup 'em the next time.

You could easily do another trip and play the SG courses you missed this time and not duplicate: Sky Harbor, Green Springs, Valderra, Sunbrook, Oasis etc. and you wouldn't regret it.

[b]What seems to be the determining factor in our enjoyment of the course are the people running the show. Which jives with why I don't like Coral Canyon. Played there 3 times and had miserable staff experiences all three times.[/b]
[/quote]

That's too bad. Our experience there was pretty good. The young gal that brought the cart out to the car was extremely pleasant, both before and after the round, the guy in the proshop likewise. And the starter was just gave us the pin placement and said to "course is in great shape, have fun", no tee box talk at all. I think we saw a couple of marshals on the course and they didn't say much at all.

I guess everyone can have a bad day out there, it's too bad that often times that bad day can spoil the round for an entire group.

[cdnrockies]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1416348972' post='10468789']
[b]Something else I noticed down there was a lot of fairway bunkers sitting in the 240-270 yard range. [/b] On a good swing and strike, my typical driver carry is in the 260 range. I'm not used to this at all, it really had an impact for me. I ended up hitting a lot of three woods. I have to admit it's kind of fun and different to actually have to stop and think and not just grab driver every hole.

Our courses are pretty simple, why our handicaps don't travel real well.
[/quote]

That's the sign that you're playing the right tee boxes and the course was designed properly. They're [b]supposed[/b] to be where you [b]could[/b] hit into them.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='cdnrockies' timestamp='1416359766' post='10469747']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1416348972' post='10468789']
[b]Something else I noticed down there was a lot of fairway bunkers sitting in the 240-270 yard range. [/b] On a good swing and strike, my typical driver carry is in the 260 range. I'm not used to this at all, it really had an impact for me. I ended up hitting a lot of three woods. I have to admit it's kind of fun and different to actually have to stop and think and not just grab driver every hole.

Our courses are pretty simple, why our handicaps don't travel real well.
[/quote]

That's the sign that you're playing the right tee boxes and the course was designed properly. They're [b]supposed[/b] to be where you [b]could[/b] hit into them.
[/quote]



Hey! You have no business bringing a logical statement into this!

I actually never thought of it that way but it makes a lot of sense.

[kg92lefty]

[quote name='dmblanch' timestamp='1416349298' post='10468815']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1416182707' post='10457481']
We had a terrific trip. I guess I'm not an overly picky or discriminating person (I liked my burger at Red Robin better than my ribeye at the restaraunt in the Casablanca), I liked all seven courses we played. I didn't find anything wrong with conditions on any of them other than the shaggy fairways at Casa Blanca (which really surprised me as they just played the Nevada Open there the three days prior).

It's really, really hard to beats the greens at Coral Canyon and Sand Hollow, they just roll so pure. And such great views. I am pleased to report I managed to NOT hit my ball over the cliff on #12 at Sand Hollow.

Casa Blanca really gave me the feel of the old phoenix courses I used to play, almost a nostalgic feeling. Although I can certainly make do without the Bermuda, I had forgotten how the ball just disappears.

Falcon Ridge, I can actually remember several of the holes, and it was the first one we played. I just liked that course.

Coyote Springs was probably my favorite. I really liked the options a lot of the holes presented. An aggressive line off the tee was rewarded with a really good look at the pin, or take the safe play off the tee and have work to do to get the ball close. Greens are definitely a challenge.

Oddly enough, the two at the bottom of my list would,be Wolf Creek and Conestoga. We just got the vibe at Conestoga that we really weren't welcome there, tolerated at best. I struggled there with the bunkers, no sand and I struggled to be able to get the club down and through.
Wolf Creek just seemed so severe. Anyone shooting under par there from the tips has my admiration.

My order to play next year (and green fee is a factor) would be: Coyote Springs, Coral Canyon, Sand Hollow, Casa Blanca, falcon Ridge, WC, and Conestoga

But I wouldn't turn any of them down. Especially with the 75-80 degree weather. Our car recorded temps down to 21 below on our drive home.
[/quote]

Thanks for the very good report from somebody who has ACTUALLY played at the courses. (I got the feeling that a few reviewers hadn't really been there.)

[/quote]

Dont be sore because people are better golfers than you. Played all of them.

[dmblanch]

[quote name='kg92lefty' timestamp='1416428004' post='10473753']


Dont be sore because people are better golfers than you. [b]Played all of them[/b].
[/quote]

Except when you haven't played them or very recently.

You said you only "heard good things" about Coral Canyon and Sand Hollow. And that Falcon Ridge was a dump 85% of the time and the Wolf Creek had lost its greens. I guess not this year.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='dmblanch' timestamp='1416428544' post='10473809']
[quote name='kg92lefty' timestamp='1416428004' post='10473753']
Dont be sore because people are better golfers than you. [b]Played all of them[/b].
[/quote]

Except when you haven't played them or very recently.

You said you only "heard good things" about Coral Canyon and Sand Hollow. And that Falcon Ridge was a dump 85% of the time and the Wolf Creek had lost its greens. I guess not this year.
[/quote]

I guess everyone has a different opinion of a course. I really liked Falcon Ridge, but everyone is different on that.

But Wolf Creek's greens were definitely not lost, although I have seen pictures and heard of problems from a few years past.

[Par Fore]

Not that this matters, but 9 months ago Wolf creek's greens were more dirt than grass. That's not a exaggeration, and they were better than both falcon ridge and coyote spring's. I'm fairly surprised they recovered so well. So anyone who played these courses, even earlier this year, probably have a hard time believing they are in good shape. I'm glad they have recovered. The late season rains have helped all the courses in the area going into the winter months. Dmblanch has it right, other than it being sky mountain, not sky harbor. You could make a great trip playing the courses you missed on this trip. It's to bad kokopeli closed, it had the potential to be the best course in the area.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='Par Fore' timestamp='1416459167' post='10476549']
Not that this matters, but 9 months ago Wolf creek's greens were more dirt than grass. That's not a exaggeration, and they were better than both falcon ridge and coyote spring's. I'm fairly surprised they recovered so well. So anyone who played these courses, even earlier this year, probably have a hard time believing they are in good shape. I'm glad they have recovered. The late season rains have helped all the courses in the area going into the winter months. Dmblanch has it right, other than it being sky mountain, not sky harbor. You could make a great trip playing the courses you missed on this trip. It's to bad kokopeli closed, it had the potential to be the best course in the area.
[/quote]

That's pretty amazing. I can remember a couple of iffy spots on the first green at Falcon Ridge but that's about all. WC's were very good and Coyote Springs greens were the best of the bunch outside of the two St George courses. You never would thought there had been any recent problems.

[dmblanch]

Kokopelli was a phenomenal course. I was lucky to play there once during its brief year of life. But the time I played there highlighted why it had no chance in hell of surviving. I played it in late March in a combo trip to other St. George courses. This is a peak season time for Mes/SG with all the snowbirds in town and busy. But Kokopelli sat at 4800 feet in elevation, Sand Hollow and the others sit at 3000 or less. Many greens were still frozen and unplayable for us. Then when summer hit, Kokopelli got nice, but all the snowbirds went home and the tourists stopped coming. The locals didn't want to drive a 1/2 hour out of town when they could just keep looping on their city passes.