How to switch putting stroke from SBST to arc?

[jfann1]

I recently view this video on practicing putting by trying to get the ball to roll end over end on the line drawn around the equator of the ball:

 

I've been a SBST putter for the whole 8 years I've been playing golf. It's always felt more natural for me to manipulate the head to try to keep it on a straight line than to allow it to arc. Something about allow the putter to arc makes me feel uneasy about my prospects of getting it back to square at the moment of impact.

 

As it turns out, after hitting 30 putts with my trusty SBST stroke, I only recorded a handful that rolled truly end over end! Nearly all the rest of them wobbled to some degree. I experimented with ball placement and that did nothing. Finally, I tried putting with an arc stroke and, lo and behold, true end over end roll! I was getting true roll over 50% of the time and the rest of the time, the line wobble was greatly diminished.

 

This was all done on my carpet in my living room two days ago. I tried taking this out onto the course today with disastrous results. Not only did I start pushing and pulling putts, but I had lost my sense of distance control on anything over 8 feet. Has anyone switched from SBST to arc and had success (which I would define as an improvement in putting, not just a similar level of putting ability)? Any tips? For those arc putters out there- Is there a best place to position the ball in relation to stance/head/spine? What about grip?

[Hstead]

Take this for what it is worth, but I have worked on my putting for years and finally found David Orr and he fixed me up. Basically it was real easy. Forget SBST or Arc. If you focus on your stroke, you will successfully make the stroke you want but the lack of focus on the ball going in the hole will mean you often miss. I focused on mechanics for years and it made me worse. Orr taught me to quit thinking about my stroke, completely quit. Only think about rolling your ball in the hole and whether it is going to hit the back of the rim of the cup liner, barely trickle over the front edge, or swish straight down the middle without touching any part of the cup. I am willing to bet if you just get setup, look at the hole and then look back at the ball and just try to roll your ball in the hole within 3 seconds of looking back at it your brain will do what it needs to do with your stroke and you will roll the ball better and make more putts. So make it a sport and use your athletic ability by looking and reacting, instead of making it an exercise in making a "perfect" stroke and then the ball doesn't go in.

This changed my putting world completely. I never think about my stroke at all now. I only think about the ball entering the hole at the speed I want it to. I rarely three putt now and make more than my share. Give it a shot and forget SBST and Arc etc.

[ChipDriver]

You can do it naturally and still feel like you're putting it "straight" by doing the following:

1) Stand up like a soldier and hold your putter straight out - with your arms straight and level with the shoulders. Now break your elbows and and pull them in to your pecs - keeping the putter perpendicular to you. Rotate your torso. This proves the putter works on an arc relative to the ground.
2) With your arms still slightly pulled in - bend over until the putter is grounded - you should be about 45* or so bent at the waist.
3) Rotate the torso by rocking your shoulders, not your hands or arms. The arc is smaller than before - but it's still there. The putter will be straight about 6 inches before and after the ball. About 6" past the ball on either side the putter will gradually pull inward.

To prove this - find a wall and line up (as above) with upper arms slightly anchored to the chest and sides; and rotating with the shoulders - at address - make sure the putter toe is touching the baseboard of the wall. Rock your shoulders - and you will see that it will graze the wall through the hitting area and be "straight" and it will come off of the wall after about 6" on the back swing and through swing.

[Badgergolfer2]

Try having the feel of the face opening going back and closing coming through the ball. All putting strokes have some degree of an arc, even SBST. The difference is try to or not trying to manipulate the face.

[jfann1]

For those who have fiddled with the arc before, is there an optimal place in the stance to place the ball (center, closer to front or back foot) so that the club returns back to square at the moment of impact or does it not matter because the idea is just that itll be square wherever it started since you are returning it to its address position?

I'm trying my best not to think about mechanics as Hstead suggested but I can't help but let the thoughts creep into my head mostly because of the unknowns. Things like, am I gripping the putter correctly? Is the ball in the correct place in my stance? I did do something though that seemed to help near the end of my round: I stared at the hole for a good 3 seconds before finally hitting my putt with the only thing in my mind being me visualizing the ball going in. Then I'd look down at the ball and hit it without thinking. That did help a bit. I just want to be sure I'm mechanically sound so that I don't have to worry about that on the course.

[Dave D]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1411016480' post='10138363']
Take this for what it is worth, but I have worked on my putting for years and finally found David Orr and he fixed me up. Basically it was real easy. Forget SBST or Arc. If you focus on your stroke, you will successfully make the stroke you want but the lack of focus on the ball going in the hole will mean you often miss. I focused on mechanics for years and it made me worse. Orr taught me to quit thinking about my stroke, completely quit. Only think about rolling your ball in the hole and whether it is going to hit the back of the rim of the cup liner, barely trickle over the front edge, or swish straight down the middle without touching any part of the cup. I am willing to bet if you just get setup, look at the hole and then look back at the ball and just try to roll your ball in the hole within 3 seconds of looking back at it your brain will do what it needs to do with your stroke and you will roll the ball better and make more putts. So make it a sport and use your athletic ability by looking and reacting, instead of making it an exercise in making a "perfect" stroke and then the ball doesn't go in.

This changed my putting world completely. I never think about my stroke at all now. I only think about the ball entering the hole at the speed I want it to. I rarely three putt now and make more than my share. Give it a shot and forget SBST and Arc etc.
[/quote]
I like this A LOT!

[vman]

Getting rid of thoughts of technique can be very difficult with putting.Bob Rotella has made a career out of helping people with this.You need to find a technique that is comfortable to you and a putter that fits.The intention then should be to roll the ball along an intended line and there are numerous aids to help with aim and line(lasers,chalk line drill,putting rails,mirrors etc.)Confidence comes from your ability to repeat a technique that achieves this.Once this is in place follow what Hstead wrote and never waiver.

[jfann1]

Yeah at this point it's really about confidence in the new arc stroke. I can execute just fine when practicing at home on my carpet or even on the practice putting green but once I'm out on the course and I'm dealing with unknown breaks, speeds and a scorecard, it's a different story. I do want to get to a point where I can just forget the mechanics, visualize and execute. Only problem is, as of now, the SBST stroke *feels* right to me even though it doesn't produce a putt that reliably stays on line. The arc stroke gives me truer roll on my intended line but every time I putt the ball it's as if my body is freaking out as I take the club back telling me I'm way inside and I'm going to end up pushing it. Stiffens my muscles up and I lose sense of speed.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='jfann1' timestamp='1411085730' post='10143777']
Yeah at this point it's really about confidence in the new arc stroke. I can execute just fine when practicing at home on my carpet or even on the practice putting green but once I'm out on the course and I'm dealing with unknown breaks, speeds and a scorecard, it's a different story. I do want to get to a point where I can just forget the mechanics, visualize and execute. Only problem is, as of now, the SBST stroke *feels* right to me even though it doesn't produce a putt that reliably stays on line. The arc stroke gives me truer roll on my intended line but every time I putt the ball it's as if my body is freaking out as I take the club back telling me I'm way inside and I'm going to end up pushing it. Stiffens my muscles up and I lose sense of speed.
[/quote]

If you need to putt with tension - then pull your elbows in, keep the "triangle" of your arms and chest as a unit - and rock your shoulders to swing the putter...will improve your feel.

[jfann1]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1411087070' post='10143933']
[quote name='jfann1' timestamp='1411085730' post='10143777']
Yeah at this point it's really about confidence in the new arc stroke. I can execute just fine when practicing at home on my carpet or even on the practice putting green but once I'm out on the course and I'm dealing with unknown breaks, speeds and a scorecard, it's a different story. I do want to get to a point where I can just forget the mechanics, visualize and execute. Only problem is, as of now, the SBST stroke *feels* right to me even though it doesn't produce a putt that reliably stays on line. The arc stroke gives me truer roll on my intended line but every time I putt the ball it's as if my body is freaking out as I take the club back telling me I'm way inside and I'm going to end up pushing it. Stiffens my muscles up and I lose sense of speed.
[/quote]

If you need to putt with tension - then pull your elbows in, keep the "triangle" of your arms and chest as a unit - and rock your shoulders to swing the putter...will improve your feel.
[/quote]

will give that a shot the next time i'm out

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='jfann1' timestamp='1411095232' post='10144837']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1411087070' post='10143933']
[quote name='jfann1' timestamp='1411085730' post='10143777']
Yeah at this point it's really about confidence in the new arc stroke. I can execute just fine when practicing at home on my carpet or even on the practice putting green but once I'm out on the course and I'm dealing with unknown breaks, speeds and a scorecard, it's a different story. I do want to get to a point where I can just forget the mechanics, visualize and execute. Only problem is, as of now, the SBST stroke *feels* right to me even though it doesn't produce a putt that reliably stays on line. The arc stroke gives me truer roll on my intended line but every time I putt the ball it's as if my body is freaking out as I take the club back telling me I'm way inside and I'm going to end up pushing it. Stiffens my muscles up and I lose sense of speed.
[/quote]

If you need to putt with tension - then pull your elbows in, keep the "triangle" of your arms and chest as a unit - and rock your shoulders to swing the putter...will improve your feel.
[/quote]

will give that a shot the next time i'm out
[/quote]

The putter IS for all purposes going straight in about a 12" area of your stroke. As long as the face is square to target and the ball is placed optimally, it WILL roll straight. The key is to have constant ball position,....so that it matches the straight part of the stroke. Once you find it and once you become used to the putting stroke - then you should be a more reliable putter.

To give an example: Mike Shannon studied putting and determined that if the ball position varies by 1" too far back (from optimal) it will result in a 1 foot miss to the right at 10 feet. He also said something like most amateurs vary their ball position 1-3" on each putt.

Constant setup; ball position and rock the shoulders - should get you more consistently rolling putts on your line. Then you just have to worry about reading the green and speed. "Just".

But knowing that you are rolling it where you want it to go helps tremendously.

Good luck.

[jfann1]

Regarding ball position, last night I tried hitting putts from a number of ball positions and found that having the ball directly in the center of my stance, right under my eyes resulted in the highest likelihood of me getting the ball to roll end over end on the line repeatedly. I've read in some places before that it's best to keep the ball slightly forward in your stance though. Any thoughts on this?

[dbleag]

[quote name='davekzg' timestamp='1411055619' post='10140589']
[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1411016480' post='10138363']
Take this for what it is worth, but I have worked on my putting for years and finally found David Orr and he fixed me up. Basically it was real easy. Forget SBST or Arc. If you focus on your stroke, you will successfully make the stroke you want but the lack of focus on the ball going in the hole will mean you often miss. I focused on mechanics for years and it made me worse. Orr taught me to quit thinking about my stroke, completely quit. Only think about rolling your ball in the hole and whether it is going to hit the back of the rim of the cup liner, barely trickle over the front edge, or swish straight down the middle without touching any part of the cup. I am willing to bet if you just get setup, look at the hole and then look back at the ball and just try to roll your ball in the hole within 3 seconds of looking back at it your brain will do what it needs to do with your stroke and you will roll the ball better and make more putts. So make it a sport and use your athletic ability by looking and reacting, instead of making it an exercise in making a "perfect" stroke and then the ball doesn't go in.

This changed my putting world completely. I never think about my stroke at all now. I only think about the ball entering the hole at the speed I want it to. I rarely three putt now and make more than my share. Give it a shot and forget SBST and Arc etc.
[/quote]
I like this A LOT!
[/quote]

I like this for any and every shot, not just putting.

Focusing on mechanics inhibits my scoring capabilities severely.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='jfann1' timestamp='1411134602' post='10146709']
Regarding ball position, last night I tried hitting putts from a number of ball positions and found that having the ball directly in the center of my stance, right under my eyes resulted in the highest likelihood of me getting the ball to roll end over end on the line repeatedly. I've read in some places before that it's best to keep the ball slightly forward in your stance though. Any thoughts on this?
[/quote]

It differs from person to person. If that is the place where it works best then measure it. Literally. Set up again and have your wife measure where the ball position is in relation to your left toe tip of your shoe. 2 measurements: "How far back" (west to east) and "How far away" (south to north). Convert that distance to putter heads (b/c on the course that's the fastest way to measure it) and THAT becomes your constant ball position (at least for now). Once you practice it a couple times it will become easier and faster to set up. For me the "constant ball position" helped to transform me almost overnight into a decent putter. Handicap dropped appreciably in 20 rounds and continued.

Now before I go play - I take 5 minutes on the practice green to:

1) i find a flat 4 foot putt.
2) check my setup, alignment and ball position
3) try to roll in 10 putts.
4) if I have more time I move back to 6 feet and then 10 feet.

If I pull or push putts it HAS to be stroke or weight distribution/width of stance.

Good luck.

[GoHeels]

Not necessarily arc/SBST related, but I had the biggest breakthrough putting I've ever had simply by implementing a routine (also updated to a Sabertooth, which felt like cheating in terms of keeping the ball online).

Used to be a terrible putter, even from 10 feet. If I hit the hole from that distance I thought I hit a decent putt. Realized I had absolutely no putting routine. On the putting green the other night I started reading the putt, addressing my putt and taking one concerted practice swing as if I was making a real stroke. If I was comfortable with it, I'd step up to the ball, look at the hole, look down at the ball, and make the same stroke.

By the time I left the green, I was upset at myself if I was missing up hill 10 footers by more than a lip out. Side hill/down hill/it was all the same. I was scaring the hole on just about anything inside 20 feet.

To me, the 'focused' practice stroke basically just allowed natural athleticism to take over when I actually hit the real putt.

[Hstead]

David Orr had me put the ball in the direct center of my setup, under my throat. Going off of the feet can be deceiving since your stance width can vary from day to day, but your sternum and throat aren't going to move lol from day to day. He likes the ball in the center because that is the low point for the most part and where he wanted the ball to be contacted as the putter then rises slightly after impact. David might not be the end all be all, just trying to pass along what I was taught by a very good putting coach that is teaching the likes of Rose, Wie, and Mahan among other Tour players. He may teach them something different I do not know, but what he taught me was ball in the middle of stance right under my sternum, throat etc. That is pretty much dead center of my feet as well since it is center.

The best drill he gave me was to get a 4 to 5 foot putt, and then try to make it at three different speeds, trickling over the edge, swishing it, and then banking it off of the back of the rim. Forget mechanics, get setup with the ball in the middle, look at the hole and make it at different speeds. You will be amazed at how everything else (meaning mechanics) will automatically improve when you concentrate on nothing but making the putt. Your path will fix itself most of the time. You do not need to think about it. Let your brain take care of the unconscious stuff, concentrate on making it.

[GolfGuy508]

[quote name='jfann1' timestamp='1411053872' post='10140351']
For those who have fiddled with the arc before, is there an optimal place in the stance to place the ball (center, closer to front or back foot) so that the club returns back to square at the moment of impact or does it not matter because the idea is just that itll be square wherever it started since you are returning it to its address position?

I'm trying my best not to think about mechanics as Hstead suggested but I can't help but let the thoughts creep into my head mostly because of the unknowns. Things like, am I gripping the putter correctly? Is the ball in the correct place in my stance? I did do something though that seemed to help near the end of my round: I stared at the hole for a good 3 seconds before finally hitting my putt with the only thing in my mind being me visualizing the ball going in. Then I'd look down at the ball and hit it without thinking. That did help a bit. I just want to be sure I'm mechanically sound so that I don't have to worry about that on the course.
[/quote]
Here's why those thoughts shouldnt creep into your head.......... [u][b]there is no "correct" way to grip the putter, or "correct" ball position when putting[/b][/u]... what is correct is what works best for you! take your putter to a practice green and experiment just like you did in your first post. find something that works and stick with it. takes guys YEARS to become better putters... we are no different takes practice and a lot of it