Nearest Point of relief - club used

 mwmgolfx ·  
mwmgolfxmwmgolfx Members  459WRX Points: 63Handicap: 6Posts: 459 Greens
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In another thread, the USGA definition of the Nearest point of relief was mentioned and various descriptions of it were elaborated on. I understood mostly what was going on but some of it I didn't totally understand. I play at times with some players that are super rule sticklers, down to the decimal level, if my meaning is understood.



Generally I try to play by the rules but some rounds I dont exactly because of practice or conditions.



My question concerns the NPR is measured by the club that would be used for the shot at the time. Does that mean the shot that finally would be used or a club that might be used. For example, its very gusty and the wind speed is seriously changing = 2-3 clubs worth. Its entirely possible that just before I hit the wind starts up seriously and I would then go right back to my back and get a bit more club (i've gotten as much as 2-3 clubs more or even more at times). Would I measure with the last club or the normal club. Or another scenario, I might decide to try for the green with a wood or layup with a wedge and the wind would be a major factor in this. Which club would I use to measure. Both are very viable options depending upon the exact moments I would hit the ball.



It was my understanding that we could use any club in the bag for the measurement (which could be a putter if so desired) but most people use the driver or long putter). So being required to use a wedge is new to me.



So a more detailed description is why I'm asking. I freely admit to not knowing the rules as well as perhaps I should, but I'm a senior and claim alsheimers or senior memory.
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  • rogolfrogolf Members  4353WRX Points: 602Posts: 4,353 Titanium Tees
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    Taking relief from an immovable obstruction (example, cart path) or ground under repair is a multi-step process -

    1. find the nearest point of relief using the club that you would use for the next stroke if the immovable obstruction or ground under repair was not there

    2. Measure one club length from that point, using any club that you wish to use.

    3. Drop the ball within the one club length of the nearest point of relief.
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  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 610Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
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    rogolf wrote:


    Taking relief from an immovable obstruction (example, cart path) or ground under repair is a multi-step process -

    1. find the nearest point of relief using the club that you would use for the next stroke if the immovable obstruction or ground under repair was not there

    2. Measure one club length from that point, using any club that you wish to use.

    3. Drop the ball within the one club length of the nearest point of relief.




    I would add one thing:



    4. Because of the new condition, you may now make your stroke with a different club than the club used in #1.
    Posted:
  • NewbyNewby Members  7764WRX Points: 627Posts: 7,764 Titanium Tees
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    A very significant addition.
    Posted:
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25085WRX Points: 1,647Posts: 25,085 Titanium Tees
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    When it comes time to find the NPR, just make your best call at what you would have done and then stick with it. You don't have to agonize over the decision and don't worry about if the conditions change between when you make that choice and when you actually drop the ball.
    Posted:
  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    The USGA says the player "should" use the measurement with the club intended for the shot. "Should" does not mean "Must", you can use any club in the bag for the measurement, this would include the Driver or one of the Extra Long Putters.
    Posted:
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 610Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
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    Guia wrote:


    The USGA says the player "should" use the measurement with the club intended for the shot. "Should" does not mean "Must", you can use any club in the bag for the measurement, this would include the Driver or one of the Extra Long Putters.




    Locating nearest point of relief is NOT a measurement.



    If you take your stance with a driver or extra-long-putter-standing-far-from-the-ball when you intend to hit a wedge, you will be in breach of the rules.
    Posted:
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  • QEightQEight FinlandMembers  3521WRX Points: 189Handicap: 11,0Posts: 3,521 Titanium Tees
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    HitEmTrue wrote:

    rogolf wrote:


    Taking relief from an immovable obstruction (example, cart path) or ground under repair is a multi-step process -

    1. find the nearest point of relief using the club that you would use for the next stroke if the immovable obstruction or ground under repair was not there

    2. Measure one club length from that point, using any club that you wish to use.

    3. Drop the ball within the one club length of the nearest point of relief.




    I would add one thing:



    4. Because of the new condition, you may now make your stroke with a different club than the club used in #1.




    But then if you get interference from same condition because of the different club, you would not get another relief.
    Posted:
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  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    This is on the USGA Web page. Watch the video, any club in the bag can be used for measurement for relief.



    Also, I searched through the rules and the part about "using the club that should be used for the shot" has been taken out.



    http://www.usga-rules.com/Unplayable/
    Posted:
  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12933WRX Points: 480Posts: 12,933 ClubWRX
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    Guia wrote:


    This is on the USGA Web page. Watch the video, any club in the bag can be used for measurement for relief.



    Also, I searched through the rules and the part about "using the club that should be used for the shot" has been taken out.



    http://www.usga-rules.com/Unplayable/




    Where does measuring for Nearest Point of Relief come into play for an Unplayable Lie?
    Posted:
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  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    The OP question was what club to use:

    Nearest Point of relief - club used





    1. If your ball is next to an unlovable object.

    2. relief from cart path

    3. ball came to rest in a bush, against a tree, and deemed unplayable

    4. etc
    Posted:
  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12933WRX Points: 480Posts: 12,933 ClubWRX
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    Guia wrote:


    The OP question was what club to use:

    Nearest Point of relief - club used





    1. If your ball is next to an unlovable object.

    2. relief from cart path

    3. ball came to rest in a bush, against a tree, and deemed unplayable

    4. etc




    I'm sorry, I must be using a different rule book than you...
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  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    What is your question, you have lost me on what your point is. The post asked about what club to use when measuring.



    Did you watch the USGA film?
    Posted:
  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12933WRX Points: 480Posts: 12,933 ClubWRX
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    Guia wrote:


    What is your question, you have lost me on what your point is. The post asked about what club to use when measuring.



    Did you watch the USGA film?




    There are 2 separate issues:



    1) Finding the nearest point of relief

    2) Measuring FROM the nearest point of relief



    The original question was about #1, your answer and video covers #2, except when taking relief from an unplayable lie, as in the video you posted, there is no nearest point of relief that comes into play, so #1, the original question, is ignored.
    Posted:
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  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 610Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
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    Guia wrote:


    What is your question, you have lost me on what your point is. The post asked about what club to use when measuring.



    Did you watch the USGA film?




    Guia, that video is about an unplayable lie. Nearest point of relief does not apply there. One of the relief options for unplayable lie involves measuring 2-club lengths (with any club) from where the ball CURRENTLY lies.
    Posted:
  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    The video addresses determining the nearest point of relief for a drop when using a club for measurement.



    This is what the OP wrote in his question: My question concerns the NPR is measured by the club that would be used for the shot at the time. Does that mean the shot that finally would be used or a club that might be used. For example, its very gusty and the wind speed is seriously changing = 2-3 clubs worth. Its entirely possible that just before I hit the wind starts up seriously and I would then go right back to my back and get a bit more club (i've gotten as much as 2-3 clubs more or even more at times). Would I measure with the last club or the normal club. Or another scenario, I might decide to try for the green with a wood or layup with a wedge and the wind would be a major factor in this. Which club would I use to measure. Both are very viable options depending upon the exact moments I would hit the ball.
    Posted:
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 610Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
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    Guia wrote:


    What is your question, you have lost me on what your point is. The post asked about what club to use when measuring.



    Did you watch the USGA film?




    I'm trying to find a video about obstructions on USGA website...that subject certainly deserves one.



    Can any of you get this page to open?



    http://www.usga-rules.com/Rule24-2.html



    Searching on USGA site for different subjects yields results called "Rules Explained", but I can't get any of them to open in Chrome or IE.



    http://www.usga.org/USGASearch.aspx?q=obstruction
    Posted:
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  • NewbyNewby Members  7764WRX Points: 627Posts: 7,764 Titanium Tees
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    Guia wrote:


    What is your question, you have lost me on what your point is. The post asked about what club to use when measuring.



    Did you watch the USGA film?


    The film is about Rule 28. Unplayable ball

    This is the relevant part

    c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.



    This is a link to the full Rule.

    http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-28/





    Perhaps you can point out where it mentions nearest point of relief
    Posted:
  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    The nearest point of relief would be within the 2 club measurement for the drop, no nearer the hole.



    This portion of the rule would not apply if taking a drop from casual water, or some other circumstances. But the OP asked about what club to use and that is what I addressed.
    Posted:
  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12933WRX Points: 480Posts: 12,933 ClubWRX
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    Guia wrote:


    The video addresses determining the nearest point of relief for a drop when using a club for measurement.



    This is what the OP wrote in his question: My question concerns the NPR is measured by the club that would be used for the shot at the time. Does that mean the shot that finally would be used or a club that might be used. For example, its very gusty and the wind speed is seriously changing = 2-3 clubs worth. Its entirely possible that just before I hit the wind starts up seriously and I would then go right back to my back and get a bit more club (i've gotten as much as 2-3 clubs more or even more at times). Would I measure with the last club or the normal club. Or another scenario, I might decide to try for the green with a wood or layup with a wedge and the wind would be a major factor in this. Which club would I use to measure. Both are very viable options depending upon the exact moments I would hit the ball.




    WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO LISTEN???



    Done beating my head against the wall. Good luck to you Guia.
    Posted:
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  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 610Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
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    Guia wrote:


    The video addresses determining the nearest point of relief for a drop when using a club for measurement.




    That video is talking about finding the POINT of relief for unplayable, under one of the three relief options for unplayable lie. The words "Nearest point of relief" are not used in the video.



    Nearest point of relief is used for obstructions, not an unplayable lie.
    Posted:
  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12933WRX Points: 480Posts: 12,933 ClubWRX
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    Nearest point of relief is the reference point for taking relief without penalty from interference by an immovable obstruction (Rule 24-2), an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1) or a wrong putting green (Rule 25-3).



    It is the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies:



    (i) that is not nearer the hole, and



    (ii) where, if the ball were so positioned, no interference by the condition from which relief is sought would exist for the stroke the player would have made from the original position if the condition were not there.



    Note: In order to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke.
    Posted:
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  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    My reply was to the OPs question about what club was allowable for use when taking measurement for a drop. Nothing else, no and ifs or butts.



    Why am I getting hammered????????????



    It was a simple question and a simple answer. ANY FRIGGIN CLUB IN THE BAG.
    Posted:
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 610Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
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    Nearest Point Of Relief



    The “nearest point of relief” is the reference point for taking relief without penalty from interference by an immovable obstruction (Rule 24-2), an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1) or a wrong putting green (Rule 25-3).



    It is the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies:



    (i) that is not nearer the hole, and



    (ii) where, if the ball were so positioned, no interference by the condition from which relief is sought would exist for the stroke the player would have made from the original position if the condition were not there.



    Note: In order to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke.
    Posted:
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25085WRX Points: 1,647Posts: 25,085 Titanium Tees
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    Guia wrote:


    The video addresses determining the nearest point of relief for a drop when using a club for measurement.




    no it doesn't. Determining the area in which the player can take relief is NOT the same as the term "nearest point of relief" in the ROG. I suggest you read the defination for that term.



    http://www.usga.org/...Point-Of-Relief



    This is the USGA vid for immovable obstructions (there is also another one for abnormal ground conditions). Note the specific use of the term.



    http://www.usga-rule...leObstructions/






    Guia wrote:


    My reply was to the OPs question about what club was allowable for use when taking measurement for a drop. Nothing else, no and ifs or butts.




    No, the OP's question was specifically about what club to use to find the NPR.
    Posted:
  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    snapback.pngGuia, on 04 December 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:
    [background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]



    My reply was to the OPs question about what club was allowable for use when taking measurement for a drop. Nothing else, no and ifs or butts.[/background]




    No, the OP's question was specifically about what club to use to find the NPR.



    And the answer is "you can use any club in the bag, no restriction as which club". That is the question I answered and the only question I addressed.
    Posted:
  • josephs_79josephs_79 Members  419WRX Points: 0Handicap: 15.9Posts: 419
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    Guia wrote:
    My reply was to the OPs question about what club was allowable for use when taking measurement for a drop. Nothing else, no and ifs or butts. Why am I getting hammered???????????? It was a simple question and a simple answer. ANY FRIGGIN CLUB IN THE BAG.




    From what I read his question was asking what club do I use to measure the NPR not to measure the drop.



    From what I can gather :



    To measure the NPR you should measure this with the club you intend to use (SW or 9I etc) -> OP's question



    Once the NPR is measured you can then use any club to measure the distance for the drop (IE Driver etc) -> Your answer
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  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    Nothing says "must" it said "should".



    Have you ever watched a tournament where a player used a putter to take a measurement. I have never seen anything but a driver used.
    Posted:
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 610Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
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    Guia, hopefully you will discover that taking relief from an obstruction is a multi-step process. Rogolf outlined them in post #2.



    "Nearest point of relief" is a very specific point. It is not an area. After locating NPR, you can measure (using any club) to determine your allowable drop area.



    By contrast, if you choose to measure when taking an unplayable, you must drop CLOSER than two-club lengths. You don't find that spot (two club-lengths away), and then measure again.
    Posted:
  • NewbyNewby Members  7764WRX Points: 627Posts: 7,764 Titanium Tees
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    NPR is not measured. It is not a distance, it is a point. It is determined.



    Within X club lengths is a distance. Distances are measured.
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  • GuiaGuia Members  8696WRX Points: 167Posts: 8,696 Titanium Tees
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    Someone show me the rule where it says "must" use the club that the shot will be taken with. It does not exist.
    Posted:
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