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Why swinging over the top is good and how is shallows the swing.
Jonnybagadonuts ·
Jonnybagadonuts
Members Posted: WRX Points: 35Handicap: 3Posts: 1,089 Bunkers
So many of us are under the impression that swinging "over the top" is the worst thing that you can do. Also we get caught up in trying to shallow the swing
by dropping the club behind us or trying to turn the left arm clockwise while in transition ( Hogan,) .
i dont know if you have ever tried turning your arms clockwise in transition but its extremely difficult motion and requires a tremendous amount of timing.
We are looking at the transition of the great players and misinterpreting what is going on . What actually is happening is that they are swinging " OVER THE TOP " of the initial plane . Which in turn
is squaring the club face. I like to call it swinging over the top from the inside. There is no conscious twisting or chain pulling or side arm throwing. Its simply getting to a backswing position where the club is in sync with the body and on a neutral plane to slightly underneath . From there its simply rotating what feels like over the top. The pieces of the puzzle fall in place the club drops behind the player slighty which shallows out the swing path and the shoulders have more then enough room to rotate freely .
A perfect example is Robert Rock.
https://www.youtube....h?v=FopnOW_-UCw
by dropping the club behind us or trying to turn the left arm clockwise while in transition ( Hogan,) .
i dont know if you have ever tried turning your arms clockwise in transition but its extremely difficult motion and requires a tremendous amount of timing.
We are looking at the transition of the great players and misinterpreting what is going on . What actually is happening is that they are swinging " OVER THE TOP " of the initial plane . Which in turn
is squaring the club face. I like to call it swinging over the top from the inside. There is no conscious twisting or chain pulling or side arm throwing. Its simply getting to a backswing position where the club is in sync with the body and on a neutral plane to slightly underneath . From there its simply rotating what feels like over the top. The pieces of the puzzle fall in place the club drops behind the player slighty which shallows out the swing path and the shoulders have more then enough room to rotate freely .
A perfect example is Robert Rock.
https://www.youtube....h?v=FopnOW_-UCw
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I was hitting some pretty powerful push draws with ease, almost automatic . I think it all stems from your original tip to me of the karate chop move.
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Awesome mate. The karate chop move (iteach taught it to me) is great for people who are overly connected. Helps get lead arm off the chest coming down. For you, your backswing might have gotten a bit too deep, so the shift out helped get you back on plane.
Overall you are right, most of the WRX crowd hates seeing any downswing that's steeper than the backswing.
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Manassero is a good example of what I'm talking about. He gets his arms a bit deep in the backswing (pause when left arm is parallel to ground and then again at same spot in downswing) and thus has to kick out on the downswing.
With Lee, I'd argue that was pretty much inline. Hands maybe kicked out an inch at most. Camera angle wasn't the best.
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Kuchar is more "standard" over the top, IMO.
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How do you know his path was leftward? You can still come over the top of your BS plane and hit it from the inside, which is what I think he's advocating
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Takaway is "inside" and then the club path moves "over" that path in transition... but still attacks the ball from the inside.
Google: OTT from the inside
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Did his post say anything about a leftward path
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Exactly, and with many of the really good ones who swing this way the shaft actually shallows in transition...even though the overall path is OTT
WITB:
Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
Ping G410 LST - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73
Kasco K2K 33 - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73
Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
Taylormade TP5X Ball
2866
2
Taylormade SLDR Mini 14* - Fujikura Motore Speeder 77X
Callaway Apex UT 18° - Project X 6.5
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Agree
WITB:
Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
Ping G410 LST - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73
Kasco K2K 33 - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73
Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
Taylormade TP5X Ball
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Neil
Xhot 3 deep 14.5
SLDR 17 deg hybrid
Ping g15 20 deg hybrid
Callaway XR pro 5 - pw
callaway X forged 48
Callway X tour 52 & 58
Nike Method Mod 90
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Precisely , I am surprised so many people are familiar with what I am talking about .
It's a great way to move the club and feels very natural once you get the motion down .
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When I started I was a jerk it back inside and swing OTT. I eventually learned to take the club back on a better plane (a little outside) and soon began to struggle with coming too far from the inside, trying the drop the club in the slot and shallow out.
Now I take it back on the same plane but feel as though I'm swinging OTT (not drastically). Ball striking is much more consistent.
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Hands start working out from the top in most good swings.
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Callaway Epic 15* - Diamana S+ 70X
Titleist 718 T-MB 3 iron DG S300
PXG 0311T 4-P - DGTI AMT S400
Titleist SM7 50, 56, 60 - DGTI S400
Scotty Cameron Studio Custom Newport 2
Snell Black
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Johnny, perhaps you could explain a little bit more about what you are seeing. . . nothing about Rock's swing looks OTT to me.
You do indicate "what feels" like OTT, and I could never argue anyone's feels, however, I do not see OTT with Rock.
I am familiar with McLean's planes and, if memory serves me, Floyd is a good example of someone who goes back under plane and re-routes up and onto a higher plane, if you will. I do not know what he 'feels', but pretty sure that is not what most would consider an OTT move.
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And I don't shallow the shaft in transition, just can't happen... will never happen, not in my dna.
What do I do? I setup with my shaft on the turned shoulder plane, take it back inside, lift my hands back up the the TSP, and bring my hands and the club back down the TSP to impact. It looks "cleaner" on video because I have higher hands at setup and impact is on the same plane, but I always swing down the TSP so if I set up with low hands the OTT move is exaggerated.
It be what it be.
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Yes, they will work 'out', or towards the target line but still on the correct plane, not over the top of it.
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If you will read the other posts, lv_2_hack explains very clearly in post #8 what 'OTT' means in this context and it does not preclude a rightward path.
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Agree 100%. The 'hands' (forearms and wrists more specifically) are the problem, not necessarily the shoulder. For example, the hands can drop, as with Rock, and right shoulder moves 'out' and there is no OTT pathology.
Mikah gets a lot of heat on this forum. However, one of his stock comments is very insightful and applicable here. Namely, keeping the right hand on an arc inside the left during the transition and early downswing. Another way of looking at is the right elbow leads the hand. This relationship is lost if one pronates their right forearm during the transition/early downswing. . . OTT city with the hands, and the shoulder typically comes along for the ride in the prototypic out-to-in swing. Nothing about Rock's swing is out-to-in.
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I thought it was the club head path in relation to the ball.