Why swinging over the top is good and how is shallows the swing.

[FatReed]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1423944709' post='10953181']
[quote name='FatReed' timestamp='1423944258' post='10953155']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1423943733' post='10953123']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1423942809' post='10953041']
[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1423907046' post='10951015']
[color=#800080]It is how i learned to play. I haves a video last year proving to some PGA teacher that i can come *over the top* with a very inside backswing ands have a path from the insides. The only time i get steep coming down is when i gets steep on the backswing going up.[/color]
[/quote]

So how do you get steep on the downswing if you get steep on the backswing ? Most decent players shallow it from a steep backswing ala nick price , nick Faldo etc
[/quote]

Its not always the case that you will shallow from steep even if you are a decent player, its all the tendencies of the player. I think you have to be taught to shallow from steep. Some players need to keep the shaft more on plane to not come down steep
[/quote]

I THINK what Eight is wondering - and me too - is how you go from being steep --> transition OTT --> and come out shallow??
[/quote]

where did you come up with that?
[/quote]

Might have misread . . . all the plurals distract my comprehension

[lv_2_hack]

Can anyone name a good player that has a very vertical backswing AND steepens it on the way down? Cuz I cant think of one.

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423948626' post='10953577']
Can anyone name a good player that has a very vertical backswing AND steepens it on the way down? Cuz I cant think of one.
[/quote]

Not any I can think of, in matt kuchar practice swinging left drill I think he does but doesn't in real swing.

All tour pros I've seen they get on plane from whatever backswing position they prefer. Am's I've seen many take it back steep and come down steep with EE.

[ALIF]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423948626' post='10953577']
Can anyone name a good player that has a very vertical backswing AND steepens it on the way down? Cuz I cant think of one.
[/quote]

Furyk??

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1423969985' post='10955385']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423948626' post='10953577']
Can anyone name a good player that has a very vertical backswing AND steepens it on the way down? Cuz I cant think of one.
[/quote]

Furyk??
[/quote]

Nope...

[attachment=2618247:image.jpg]
[attachment=2618249:image.jpg]

[ALIF]

Uncle! Who is it?

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1423972210' post='10955573']
Uncle! Who is it?
[/quote]

Haha. I don't know. Someone above stated that good players could still steepen from a vertical backswing. I'm waiting to see one.

[ALIF]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423972525' post='10955593']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1423972210' post='10955573']
Uncle! Who is it?
[/quote]

Haha. I don't know. Someone above stated that good players could still steepen from a vertical backswing. I'm waiting to see one.
[/quote]

Ok good. I was thinking that there was some secret swing key I didn't know about. I couldn't think of anyone who was vertical and then steepened. Furyk was just a straw grasp. Gosh, if someone did that they would fall over and land on the ball with their nose.

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423972525' post='10955593']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1423972210' post='10955573']
Uncle! Who is it?
[/quote]

Haha. I don't know. Someone above stated that good players could still steepen from a vertical backswing. I'm waiting to see one.
[/quote]

You can, I can easily do it unless I purposely shallow the shaft, I can also go back flat and steepin onto plane. It's prefereable to go back steeper because it makes the club lighter, I'm just saying it's not automatic that the club will shallow. All pros don't take it back steep to shallow, some back it back on same plane etc

Jim furyk goes back extremely steep and EE sometimes to help him shallow

[lv_2_hack]

Best I can come up with is Craig Perry.

[Hstead]

I looked at Eamon Darcy but even he shallows and gets it on plane.

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1423973260' post='10955651']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423972525' post='10955593']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1423972210' post='10955573']
Uncle! Who is it?
[/quote]

Haha. I don't know. Someone above stated that good players could still steepen from a vertical backswing. I'm waiting to see one.
[/quote]

You can, I can easily do it unless I purposely shallow the shaft, I can also go back flat and steepin onto plane. It's prefereable to go back steeper because it makes the club lighter, I'm just saying it's not automatic that the club will shallow. All pros don't take it back steep to shallow, some back it back on same plane etc

Jim furyk goes back extremely steep and EE sometimes to help him shallow
[/quote]

Please show me a vid of Furyk losing tush line. He's lays it down about as good as anyone does.

[lv_2_hack]

And also show me a vid of a good player who plays golf from a vertical backswing and steepens it on the way down.
I'm not doubting that you can't do it and make contact, I'm saying you can't break an egg with that move.

[ALIF]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423973812' post='10955685']
And also show me a vid of a good player who plays golf from a vertical backswing and steepens it on the way down.
I'm not doubting that you can't do it and make contact, I'm saying you can't break an egg with that move.
[/quote]

You might break a leg though!!!

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423973637' post='10955673']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1423973260' post='10955651']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423972525' post='10955593']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1423972210' post='10955573']
Uncle! Who is it?
[/quote]

Haha. I don't know. Someone above stated that good players could still steepen from a vertical backswing. I'm waiting to see one.
[/quote]

You can, I can easily do it unless I purposely shallow the shaft, I can also go back flat and steepin onto plane. It's prefereable to go back steeper because it makes the club lighter, I'm just saying it's not automatic that the club will shallow. All pros don't take it back steep to shallow, some back it back on same plane etc

Jim furyk goes back extremely steep and EE sometimes to help him shallow
[/quote]

Please show me a vid of Furyk losing tush line. He's lays it down about as good as anyone does.
[/quote]

here you go, first one that came up of jim swing in google.
[attachment=2618299:furyk_EE.png]

Im just saying just because you have a vertical shaft its not automatic that it will shallow right away. You wont be playing on tour if it doesnt or you swing a different way but I do think a vertical position is the best way to shallow.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

All I can visualize is Lumberjack Bill splitting wet oak with his axe..., vertical to more vertical.

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1423975164' post='10955749']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423973637' post='10955673']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1423973260' post='10955651']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423972525' post='10955593']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1423972210' post='10955573']
Uncle! Who is it?
[/quote]

Haha. I don't know. Someone above stated that good players could still steepen from a vertical backswing. I'm waiting to see one.
[/quote]

You can, I can easily do it unless I purposely shallow the shaft, I can also go back flat and steepin onto plane. It's prefereable to go back steeper because it makes the club lighter, I'm just saying it's not automatic that the club will shallow. All pros don't take it back steep to shallow, some back it back on same plane etc

Jim furyk goes back extremely steep and EE sometimes to help him shallow
[/quote]

Please show me a vid of Furyk losing tush line. He's lays it down about as good as anyone does.
[/quote]

here you go, first one that came up of jim swing in google.
[attachment=2618299:furyk_EE.png]

Im just saying just because you have a vertical shaft its not automatic that it will shallow right away. You wont be playing on tour if it doesnt or you swing a different way but I do think a vertical position is the best way to shallow.
[/quote]

Go find that vid and watch it. He loses tush line in the backswing due to arm swing being so goofy/vertical. Not due to EE'ing on the downswing.

[MK7Golf21]

I did lv, I know Jim's swing, lol. I talked with instructors about it, I didnt know he EE until I asked them who does on tour. He EE a bit on backswing and a little bit more on downswing when he shallows shaft, then turns really hard and left hip gets closer to tush line later in swing.

[Andrew McGee II]

Easy way to play just work on range of motion in forearms. Dan Iteach is spot on

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1423976273' post='10955819']
I did lv, I know Jim's swing, lol. I talked with instructors about it, I didnt know he EE until I asked them who does on tour. He EE a bit on backswing and a little bit more on downswing when he shallows shaft, then turns really hard and left hip gets closer to tush line later in swing.
[/quote]

Sorry Mate. He's not a goat humper. EE is not defined in the backswing, it's defined as losing spine/coming out of posture in the downswing.

Furyk loses tush line in the backswing because his left arm works straight up (almost away from him) from p2-p3.5 (club parallel to ground to almost top of backswing). It's almost impossible for him not to lose some of his tush line with his arm swing the way it is. He comes off of tush line about 2-3 inches in the backswing and then almost returns back to original tush line at impact. No one in the history of goat violators has ever had their hips as open as Furyk does or maintained spine angle like Furyk does at impact.

Now back to my original gripe with your statement. You said "It's not always the case that you will shallow from steep even if you are a decent player." My definition of 'decent' is scratch or better. I'm still waiting to see a swing of someone decent that doesn't shallow from a steep backswing position or p5ish position.

I agree you can't fix all OTTer's by just getting their backswings more vertical, but for a very large group of them, it'll help.

[TB07]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1423972525' post='10955593']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1423972210' post='10955573']
Uncle! Who is it?
[/quote]

Haha. I don't know. Someone above stated that good players could still steepen from a vertical backswing. I'm waiting to see one.
[/quote]

Nope. Seen good players with steepish (relative) downswings but none that steepen more from a vertical backswing.

[MK7Golf21]

lv, he EE a tiny bit on backswing, starting downswing and shallowing of shaft he EE a little bit more by the time he gets to impact he is so open that his left hip has gotten back to the tush line. Point is, he does EE a little when he tries to shallow.
end of backswing
[attachment=2618465:Jim_furk_end.png]

start of downswing and shallow of shaft,

[attachment=2618469:furyk_2.png]


Regarding steeper helping to shallow. I agree 100%, but it still needs to be taught to shallow properly from such a position. You arent going to see guys on the tour go from steep to steeper because its not ideal to play good golf from that position, they wont be playing tour golf with it. I didnt say you could play good golf from going steep to steep but its possible to do if the player is use to coming down steep.

[MK7Golf21]

btw, are there any players on tour that go from a flat shaft at top of swing to steeper on plane?

[TB07]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1424012177' post='10956849']
btw, are there any players on tour that go from a flat shaft at top of swing to steeper on plane?
[/quote]

Yes

[dpb5031]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1424012177' post='10956849']
btw, are there any players on tour that go from a flat shaft at top of swing to steeper on plane?
[/quote]

Jimenez?

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1424011979' post='10956839']
lv, he EE a tiny bit on backswing, starting downswing and shallowing of shaft he EE a little bit more by the time he gets to impact he is so open that his left hip has gotten back to the tush line. Point is, he does EE a little when he tries to shallow.
end of backswing
[attachment=2618465:Jim_furk_end.png]

start of downswing and shallow of shaft,

[attachment=2618469:furyk_2.png]


Regarding steeper helping to shallow. I agree 100%, but it still needs to be taught to shallow properly from such a position. You arent going to see guys on the tour go from steep to steeper because its not ideal to play good golf from that position, they wont be playing tour golf with it. I didnt say you could play good golf from going steep to steep but its possible to do if the player is use to coming down steep.
[/quote]

You said decent player. Maybe we have different definitions of 'decent player.'

Regards to Fuyrk, I still think you are looking at this all wrong. He doesn't EE from p5 to impact. He loses tush line from p3-p4.5. This is all due to the goofy arm swing. He's not a goat humper. Not even close....

[attachment=2618687:Fuyrk p1.JPG]
[attachment=2618689:fuyrk p4.JPG]
[attachment=2618685:furyk p7.JPG]

If you think you can goat hump AND get to an impact position that open, then we'll just have to agree to disagree because IMO it's not possible. You were right, he does lose tush line in the backswing, but EE isn't a backswing issue, it's a downswing issue. But the fact of the matter is he comes really close to returning to his set up tush line after coming off of it 2-3 inches in the backswing and very early in the downswing.

[MK7Golf21]

Not sure how else to show you that he EE more when he starts to shallow on downswing, pictures I posted prove it. He does get his left hip back on tush line by impact from turning and opening really hard.

[lv_2_hack]

This is goat humping.... Furyk is still a PETA member.

[attachment=2618713:TP B4.JPG]
[attachment=2618711:TP b4 impact.JPG]

[MK7Golf21]

Ok so you definition of early extension is only at impact? If so, yes he turns his left hip, opens a ton and gets left hip back on tush line. To say there is no EE in the start of downswing is just false

[MK7Golf21]

Btw, your right it is caused by his vertical backswing, all EE is caused by something