Best way to learn Hogan style

[Hoganstriker]

Of all methods/teachers is there any better way than his book Five Lessons? Remember his words in the book about not copying him. The fundamentals as described in the book allow for personal variation.

The book is the source far as I am concerned. The online methods I have seen that use Hogan as an example usually do things that contradict the book. What method teacher comes closest to Hogan fundies?

If one follows what's in that book they can build a good swing IMO. It wouldn't be easy but using that book and that book alone I believe one can build a repeating swing and break 80. Other sources of info used in conjunction with the book would be a mess though.

[dairic]

I'm not sure that a book would be sufficient to break 80 for the vast majority of people. Better to get a good instructor. A book doesnt tell you what issues you have, and what to do to fix them.

I've read five lessons a bunch of time, but can't say that its helped a lot. Its similiar to reading online forums and hoping to improve that way.

[Hoganstriker]

Imagine you liked golf and had the book and that was it. No lessons no internet no help. You'd have to study the book anytime you were having a problem.
It's not a book you read and then succeed. You have to also practice what it says and when you have a problem you'd study it deeply.
The information in it is very solid.
When you say most people wouldn't be able to do this I think you mean most have a short attention span and want a quick fix instead of quality.

[Pinsplitter59]

The problem i have always had is noone , including Hogan, have described the take-away in a way i can understand and then do.
In fact i think almost noone understands it. e.g. i posted here ages ago a pic of Hogan early in his backswing with his hands already deep in line with his right hip and his shoulders turned almost 90*, and asked how does he do that, noone could give me an answer.
As of yesterday, i believe if you can't do that you can't do a Hogan style swing. i was playing our club championship 2nd qualifying round yesterday, playing so bad, short hits, weak blocks, fats, missing 2' putts, and as usually happens getting very swing confused by the 14th hole.
Fooling around with backswing turns on the 16th tee, no this is not an epiphany/miracle!, i did make a shoulder turn and arm move that felt completely different.
I used that for the next 3 holes, didn't really hit a good shot, anyhow this is the interesting thing.
when i got home later i thought i would video that backswing to see if it was different and it was. the club was going away on the shaft plane, my hands were almost at my right hip early, shoulders turned a lot early and hands much deeper behind my right shoulder at the top, and in the downswing the shaft was much flatter than my usual swing, almost on my right arm when its usually very steep, and the follow through was much more around to the left, all the good things happen because of the initial very first move, no other manipulations needed.
if i can get my legs and hips working properly, usually they do nothing, and get my right arm under a bit more because i do have a shut face take-away, then i think it would get even better. This thing feels really weird and kind of difficult to hit the ball because all my body parts are in places they've never been before.
I have a week to try to see if its real or not before the quarter final on next saturday, and learn how to not choke on 2' putts.

i think golf instruction from good players is like reading philosophy, they describe it in a way they can understand it but to you it doesn't make sense when you try it, maybe its just dumb me i don't know. last week i read a lot of Abe Mitchell's Down to Scratch and tried to do some of it, i got nowhere even close to what he did, is the problem me or his description?

[LaggingBehind]

The book has improved my swing dramatically, but thats it. It hasn't helped me to play better golf but it has given me a repeatable swing that I'm confident in. The next part is to work more on the short game and putting, but I think I need to learn it on the course since I can chip and putt well on the practice greens.

Concerning the takeaway, I've actually adopted Sergio's takeaway. I don't think I do it just like him but I try to feel the same move he talks about. The move is trying to keep the club face pointing towards the ball as long as possible in the backswing. Its helped me get width and keep my arms from getting stuck behind me. I haven't filmed myself since but I think I'm also laying off the club because I see it in the mirror when doing practice swings. It was actually a shocking moment, since it doesn't feel like i'm doing a layoff move at all.

[dairic]

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1425235861' post='11054395']
The problem i have always had is noone , including Hogan, have described the take-away in a way i can understand and then do.
In fact i think almost noone understands it. e.g. i posted here ages ago a pic of Hogan early in his backswing with his hands already deep in line with his right hip and his shoulders turned almost 90*, and asked how does he do that, noone could give me an answer.
As of yesterday, i believe if you can't do that you can't do a Hogan style swing. i was playing our club championship 2nd qualifying round yesterday, playing so bad, short hits, weak blocks, fats, missing 2' putts, and as usually happens getting very swing confused by the 14th hole.
Fooling around with backswing turns on the 16th tee, no this is not an epiphany/miracle!, i did make a shoulder turn and arm move that felt completely different.
I used that for the next 3 holes, didn't really hit a good shot, anyhow this is the interesting thing.
when i got home later i thought i would video that backswing to see if it was different and it was. the club was going away on the shaft plane, my hands were almost at my right hip early, shoulders turned a lot early and hands much deeper behind my right shoulder at the top, and in the downswing the shaft was much flatter than my usual swing, almost on my right arm when its usually very steep, and the follow through was much more around to the left, all the good things happen because of the initial very first move, no other manipulations needed.
if i can get my legs and hips working properly, usually they do nothing, and get my right arm under a bit more because i do have a shut face take-away, then i think it would get even better. This thing feels really weird and kind of difficult to hit the ball because all my body parts are in places they've never been before.
I have a week to try to see if its real or not before the quarter final on next saturday, and learn how to not choke on 2' putts.

i think golf instruction from good players is like reading philosophy, they describe it in a way they can understand it but to you it doesn't make sense when you try it, maybe its just dumb me i don't know. last week i read a lot of Abe Mitchell's Down to Scratch and tried to do some of it, i got nowhere even close to what he did, is the problem me or his description?
[/quote]

If hands are going to shift out in transition it makes sense that they should work inside in the backswing.

[Silky]

Many people were enticed by the most beautiful golf swing of Ben Hogan and tried to pursue that beauty by following his books. I belong to that group of people. It took me decades playing golf on and off to really appreciate and implement some of the actions as advocated by the book - 5 lessons. Now after retirement and with more time to tinker around with various swing methods, I wish I had follow the book with more faith from the beginning of the learning phase. Yes, I read the book a long long time ago, but I did not pay attention to the details such as Hogan's hip diagram until recently. I wish someone could write a accompany book to explain 5 lessons.

It is the whole solution package that you can implement to your swing, but you need to follow the details, almost religiously.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1425235861' post='11054395']
The problem i have always had is noone , including Hogan, have described the take-away in a way i can understand and then do.
In fact i think almost noone understands it. e.g. i posted here ages ago a pic of Hogan early in his backswing with his hands already deep in line with his right hip and his shoulders turned almost 90*, and asked how does he do that, noone could give me an answer.
As of yesterday, i believe if you can't do that you can't do a Hogan style swing. i was playing our club championship 2nd qualifying round yesterday, playing so bad, short hits, weak blocks, fats, missing 2' putts, and as usually happens getting very swing confused by the 14th hole.
Fooling around with backswing turns on the 16th tee, no this is not an epiphany/miracle!, i did make a shoulder turn and arm move that felt completely different.
I used that for the next 3 holes, didn't really hit a good shot, anyhow this is the interesting thing.
when i got home later i thought i would video that backswing to see if it was different and it was. the club was going away on the shaft plane, my hands were almost at my right hip early, shoulders turned a lot early and hands much deeper behind my right shoulder at the top, and in the downswing the shaft was much flatter than my usual swing, almost on my right arm when its usually very steep, and the follow through was much more around to the left, all the good things happen because of the initial very first move, no other manipulations needed.
if i can get my legs and hips working properly, usually they do nothing, and get my right arm under a bit more because i do have a shut face take-away, then i think it would get even better. This thing feels really weird and kind of difficult to hit the ball because all my body parts are in places they've never been before.
I have a week to try to see if its real or not before the quarter final on next saturday, and learn how to not choke on 2' putts.

i think golf instruction from good players is like reading philosophy, they describe it in a way they can understand it but to you it doesn't make sense when you try it, maybe its just dumb me i don't know. last week i read a lot of Abe Mitchell's Down to Scratch and tried to do some of it, i got nowhere even close to what he did, is the problem me or his description?
[/quote]

Hey pin,

Turn the sound off and go to 3:00 to see for yourself how Hogan takes it back -

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhUgWJNmEh8"]https://www.youtube....h?v=NhUgWJNmEh8[/url]

[Pinsplitter59]

Thanks for that Joe. Yeah my new thing didn't work last night, ha ahaa another one!
So i went back to basics, the underarm basketball throw, to get both arms working together.
"my arms don't work" has been my own analysis of my swing for ages.
setting the right forearm at the right "angle" is so important i think.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1425235861' post='11054395']
The problem i have always had is noone , including Hogan, have described the take-away in a way i can understand and then do.
In fact i think almost noone understands it. e.g. i posted here ages ago a pic of Hogan early in his backswing with his hands already deep in line with his right hip and his shoulders turned almost 90*, and asked how does he do that, noone could give me an answer.
As of yesterday, i believe if you can't do that you can't do a Hogan style swing. i was playing our club championship 2nd qualifying round yesterday, playing so bad, short hits, weak blocks, fats, missing 2' putts, and as usually happens getting very swing confused by the 14th hole.
Fooling around with backswing turns on the 16th tee, no this is not an epiphany/miracle!, i did make a shoulder turn and arm move that felt completely different.
I used that for the next 3 holes, didn't really hit a good shot, anyhow this is the interesting thing.
when i got home later i thought i would video that backswing to see if it was different and it was. the club was going away on the shaft plane, my hands were almost at my right hip early, shoulders turned a lot early and hands much deeper behind my right shoulder at the top, and in the downswing the shaft was much flatter than my usual swing, almost on my right arm when its usually very steep, and the follow through was much more around to the left, all the good things happen because of the initial very first move, no other manipulations needed.
if i can get my legs and hips working properly, usually they do nothing, and get my right arm under a bit more because i do have a shut face take-away, then i think it would get even better. This thing feels really weird and kind of difficult to hit the ball because all my body parts are in places they've never been before.
I have a week to try to see if its real or not before the quarter final on next saturday, and learn how to not choke on 2' putts.

i think golf instruction from good players is like reading philosophy, they describe it in a way they can understand it but to you it doesn't make sense when you try it, maybe its just dumb me i don't know. last week i read a lot of Abe Mitchell's Down to Scratch and tried to do some of it, i got nowhere even close to what he did, is the problem me or his description?
[/quote]

how are the ladyboys my friend?

[Pinsplitter59]

Tembolo you are a deeply disturbed young man.
I have learned to keep my eye on the ball, nothing can distract me
If i accidentally glimpse a well-toned calf in high heels it has no efect on me, such is my trancendental concentration.
Soulders turn on the shaft plane - that's the key.

[lonestar48]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1425176571' post='11050683']
Of all methods/teachers is there any better way than his book Five Lessons? Remember his words in the book about not copying him. The fundamentals as described in the book allow for personal variation.
The book is the source far as I am concerned. The online methods I have seen that use Hogan as an example usually do things that contradict the book. What method teacher comes closest to Hogan fundies?
If one follows what's in that book they can build a good swing IMO. It wouldn't be easy but using that book and that book alone I believe one can build a repeating swing and break 80. Other sources of info used in conjunction with the book would be a mess though.
[/quote]

I agree. I believe the book to be exactly what the title implies it is, the fundamentals of a sound golf swing based on his efforts and experimentation. He implies that there is and should be room for individual adjustment but to get the most out of the instruction requires a great deal of practice and experimentation. In other words, read the book, dig it out of the dirt for a while, read the book some more, dig it out of the dirt, read, dig, read, dig...

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1426632493' post='11162581']
Tembolo you are a deeply disturbed young man.
I have learned to keep my eye on the ball, nothing can distract me
If i accidentally glimpse a well-toned calf in high heels it has no efect on me, such is my trancendental concentration.
Soulders turn on the shaft plane - that's the key.
[/quote]

So you think Aus is going all the way in the cricket WC or what?

[Pinsplitter59]

Cricket!! Lordy, lordy tembolo, who cares? the only good thing about cricket is that they occassionally beat England. Beating England in anything is always very satisfying. i wouldn't mind say if NZ beat Aus, those New Zealanders are a simple people but kinda cute and they like their sheep more than we do.
Ex cricket captain Ricky Ponting saw the light and now plays off about +2 I think at Royal Melbourne.
Back on topic, you know I think Hogan did not really explain himself very well, you know some stuff seems contradictory.
Where he shows the right forearm sideways throw in a standing up position is nothing like his real swing or his Coleman slow motion demo for example.
Anyhow, doing that correctly i think is the secret key to a Hogan swing.

[tembolo1284]

congrats Pin on the aussie victory!

[Denny71]

A lot of ways to do Hogan