A scratch player against Phil Mickelson with a 700 yard advantage....

[Forged4ever]

Not remotely close, A USGA scratch is like a 2 or 3 over here bc of the way the systems work and i play plenty with players of that level from 6400-6500. The scratch player would be lucky to win 5% of the time.

 

Some of us across the pond have indexes that don't change. I'm between a one and a plus one both here and if I was in the UK. My competition scores are actually a bit lower than my every day scores. And unless I am getting things wrong, that's really the only difference between the UK and the US: in the UK, only scores shot in competition count toward one's handicap. Is that correct?

Ditto......

 

I only submitted Tourney and swat scores for cap purposes-

 

Have a nice week Obes :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend,

RP

[PowderedToastMan]

A scratch player would be lucky to be close with a 1500 yard advantage, let alone 700. A scratch off the member tees at Augusta vs Phil off the tourney tees in a casual round, for example, would be a crushing win for Phil. Can a scratch shoot 63 on a 6,000 yard course? Pros do it all the time from 7,500 yards.

[Chief Illiniwek]

A scratch player would be lucky to be close with a 1500 yard advantage, let alone 700. A scratch off the member tees at Augusta vs Phil off the tourney tees in a casual round, for example, would be a crushing win for Phil. Can a scratch shoot 63 on a 6,000 yard course? Pros do it all the time from 7,500 yards.

The pro who shoots a 63 from 7500 yards in the first round is probably leading the tournament against the other hundred and some odd pros in the field.

[DON SVO]

Rickie definitely told him the basics, but he certainly didn't read his putts for him or tell him where not to miss. LOL

 

Precisely :)

[golferdrmjr]

A scratch player would be lucky to be close with a 1500 yard advantage, let alone 700. A scratch off the member tees at Augusta vs Phil off the tourney tees in a casual round, for example, would be a crushing win for Phil. Can a scratch shoot 63 on a 6,000 yard course? Pros do it all the time from 7,500 yards.

Did you bother to read the whole thread? The answer to the question is in there and it's much different than you think!

[Forged4ever]

Obee your thread is keeping entertainment value based solely on the posters who read the OP and then don't bother with the rest. This thread gives in so many ways!

Great point Chiefsfer!!

 

LMAO, now I don't feel so bad, lol

 

Stay Well My Friend :)

 

Golfingly Yours,

RP

[WayRight]

Wow.

Can't imagine what it was like to play with them and to see your round coming to an end...

I was sad to see I was already at the 18th hole of the recap of your round.

 

Good work on the 72 under some pressure!

[golf1931]

I'm confused by this. Does Phil not hold a handicap? I mean you say scratch which means 0 or even right? I never heard of these guys carrying a negative handicap which would make them the same "level". Maybe I'm wrong

 

He has a handicap: http://widgets.ghin.com/HandicapLookupResults.aspx?entry=1&dynamic=&small=0&css=default&ghinnokey=ZgD%2bAUz3c4g%3d&hidename=0&showmsg=0&showheader=1&showtabheader=0&combinehieff=0&showheadertext=1&showfootertext=1&mode=&tab=1&st=AZ

[RICKYBOBBY]

Not remotely close, A USGA scratch is like a 2 or 3 over here bc of the way the systems work and i play plenty with players of that level from 6400-6500. The scratch player would be lucky to win 5% of the time.

 

 

I :wub: this thread

 

9 and 7.

9 and 7.

 

Anything else Tiger?

 

9 and 7.

 

Phil drills the scratch all day every day.

 

 

I :heart: this thread

 

A scratch player would be lucky to be close with a 1500 yard advantage, let alone 700. A scratch off the member tees at Augusta vs Phil off the tourney tees in a casual round, for example, would be a crushing win for Phil. Can a scratch shoot 63 on a 6,000 yard course? Pros do it all the time from 7,500 yards.

 

 

I :heart: this thread

[Rweaves6]

Great read, thanks for sharing. I'm curious, do you think they were mildly impressed with an AM holding his own (albeit from different tees) and shooting par? Or does the appreciation genuinely not even register in their minds?

[Obee]

Not even remotely. These guys play with amateurs at the clubs they belong to and travel to quite frequently. Most of the clubs the pros belong to usually have a few solid competitive amateurs, and most are younger and fitter than I am, so they are capable of taking into the 60s (some deep into the 60's) on any given day.

 

If you want to impress them, you have to beat them straight up from the same tees. And even then, all you are likely to get is a "nice round." LOL

 

 

[PapaJohick]

Well I guarantee the reason being is they are around good golf week in and week out. They also know that even if they get beat straight up by a nonprofessional, they know that everybody has bad rounds and everybody can have that very awesome good round. I wouldn't expect anything more from them. I mean could you honestly see Phil or Ricky giving you a whole bunch of praise just because you stuck around with them? Haha would be pretty cool and make you feel really good but it's not gonna happen they are out there to enjoy and win some dough

 

But also I keep checking in on here just to see responses, and I still just am so jealous that you had the chance to play with these guys.

[CDLgolf]

Obee, just curious, whats in your bag ? I saw a 4 wood and 6 hybrid were used.

[messtoph]

Obee great thread. Congrats on nice round under some pressure. I think I would have had to change my shorts after nine!

[Tcann32]

Great read Obee, and what an incredible experience that must have been!

 

Not much of a chance of this stuff ever happening in these parts (Rocco showed up at the range on a slow day and hit balls and chit chatted for a bit once), so I am truly envious!

 

I'm not one to get star struck, but I'd always be interested to spend some time with these guys to truly meet them!

[MacMia]

That 700 yard advantage spread over 18 holes way pretty quickly in my opinion. It's 39 yards a hole.

 

Phil is going to out drive this guy by 15-20 yards at least and pick up all of what's left up with his irons.

 

Worst case scenario, he has issues on the par 3s but Phil hits a 230yd carry distance 4 iron (golf digest witb).

 

Factor in the professional v amateur thing and Phil's competitive nature and it's over. Phil eats him up with his short game and putting.

 

It's not a match and it could be 9 and 8 (forgive my earlier mistake)...

 

...but then again if ifs and buts were candies and nuts, everyday would be Christmas. Strong playing obi wan.

[The Pearl]

Let's cut the crap.

 

How does Phil's hair look? I love when he grows it just long enough so it curls outside of his golf cap, respectful, yet whimsical. Pure Phil.

[straightshot7]

Not even close, Phil smokes him.

 

Unless it was a really tricky course and the scratch played a career round.

 

On average, I'd say Phil needs to give him 4 strokes a side to make it fair.

 

And do we count the pressure of playing with Phil that the scratch may feel?

 

I'm not saying the pros are unbeatable. But 700 yards is not a big deal.

[Obee]

Let's cut the crap.

 

How does Phil's hair look? I love when he grows it just long enough so it curls outside of his golf cap, respectful, yet whimsical. Pure Phil.

 

It was lustrous and flecked with eagle dust! :swoon:

[golferdrmjr]

Let's cut the crap.

 

How does Phil's hair look? I love when he grows it just long enough so it curls outside of his golf cap, respectful, yet whimsical. Pure Phil.

 

It was lustrous and flecked with eagle dust! :swoon:

You should have rubbed his belly for good luck. :-)

[bscinstnct]

Any stock tips?

[Obee]

Obee, just curious, whats in your bag ? I saw a 4 wood and 6 hybrid were used.

 

Driver: Callaway 816 DBD 9 degree with Rogue Silver 110 msi 60 3.4

4-wood: Callaway X-Hot Pro 17* 4-wood with Project X 6.0

3H: Titleist 816 H1 21 degree with Diamana Blue Board in S-flex

4H: Titleist 816 H1 23 degree with Diamana Blue Board in S-flex

5H: Adams V4 Tech with Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue in X-flex

6H: Adams V4 Tech with Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue in X-flex

7i: Ping S57 with KBS Tour stiff

8i: Ping S57 with KBS Tour stiff

9i: Ping S57 with KBS tour stiff

PW: 47* FGO custom grind (High bounce, radial sole front to back and side to side to prevent digging)

GW: 51* FGO custom grind (High bounce, radial sole front to back and side to side to prevent digging)

SW: 56* Cleveland CG10 3-dot (high bounce)

LW: 60* Cleveland RTX 588 2.0 3-dot (high bounce)

Putter: TaylorMade Spider Blade (counter balanced)

Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

[Peanut191]

So...... You hate matching clubs throughout the set?

 

Just kidding. But, wow you have a lot of different stuff going on there.(hey, I understand, just play what works best)

[bravedave]

Back in the day quarterback Chris Chandler beat Lee Janzen straight up 72-73. I believe this happened in the 90's.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Obee, just curious, whats in your bag ? I saw a 4 wood and 6 hybrid were used.

 

Driver: Callaway 816 DBD 9 degree with Rogue Silver 110 msi 60 3.4

4-wood: Callaway X-Hot Pro 17* 4-wood with Project X 6.0

3H: Titleist 816 H1 21 degree with Diamana Blue Board in S-flex

4H: Titleist 816 H1 23 degree with Diamana Blue Board in S-flex

5H: Adams V4 Tech with Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue in X-flex

6H: Adams V4 Tech with Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue in X-flex

7i: Ping S57 with KBS Tour stiff

8i: Ping S57 with KBS Tour stiff

9i: Ping S57 with KBS tour stiff

PW: 47* FGI custom grind (High bounce, radial sole front to back and side to side to prevent digging)

GW: 51* FGI custom grind (High bounce, radial sole front to back and side to side to prevent digging)

SW: 56* Cleveland CG10 3-dot (high bounce)

LW: 60* Cleveland RTX 588 2.0 3-dot (high bounce)

Putter: TaylorMade Spider Blade (counter balanced)

Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

 

First thing I'd probably think when I saw that bag with all the hybrids and few irons is "must be an old bloke's bag." Then I'd see* the Graffalloy ProLaunch Blue in X flex and be really confused. Then I would bury my wallet in my pocket and run.

 

*Actually, if the clubs were still in the bag, I wouldn't see the shafts at all, but for the purpose of this post I am imagining you have a bag made out of Saran Wrap

[Chief Illiniwek]

Ya, the first thing you'd notice when seeing that bag is all the hybrids and you might think he's not going to be a great player. But then you see the non matching hybrids, the non matching pw, the 4w and the 9* driver (all assuming the clubs are in the bag and you can't see the shafts) and you know you've got a player on your hands who has picked out his tools with care.

[TheCityGame]

Ya, the first thing you'd notice when seeing that bag is all the hybrids and you might think he's not going to be a great player. But then you see the non matching hybrids, the non matching pw, the 4w and the 9* driver (all assuming the clubs are in the bag and you can't see the shafts) and you know you've got a player on your hands who has picked out his tools with care.

Yeah, but Phil beat him and Phil has Callaways all the way through the bag that were picked out for him by someone else.

 

Who to copy. . .who to copy. . .

 

I'm really interested in what the hole scores MacMia thinks would happen for Phil to beat this guy 9&8. Phil playing 7000, say, and scratch playing 6300. Even if Phil shoots 29, they're going to halve 3 or 4 holes on the front 9. I'm only a 4 index and I feel like something went wrong if I don't par a side that plays 3150.

[driveandputtmachine]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

What if I told you the scratch came within one stroke of Phil, and Phil picked up on one hole? Would you think I was CRAAAAZY!!!!!

 

 

I would say the scratch fits into the category of someone who doesn't have to play or practice multiple times a week to maintain his handicap. I would also say that a scratch played to about the top of his abilities(a scratch doesn't average even par) and that Phil played probably a bad round shooting somewhere between 3 under and even. I would guess the course rating is rough from the tips and the 700 yards makes a ton of difference as to how hard the course is. Some courses it being your home course and someone only having played it once or not at all makes a HUGE difference.

 

I would also say that is a hell of an accomplishment, to only lose by one to FIGJAM! I mean he isn't as good as he once was, but he is still Phil Freaking MIckelson. I have never had the stars align to play against/with such a big star and great player, I carry a plus handicap and haven't gotten within 3 of a guy who used to play on tour.

 

In all honesty, I did say 90 times out of 100. The player did come within 6, which is awesome.

 

 

Did you read Obee's post and the story of what actually happened in this real life scenario?

Here is a link:

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry12807362

 

I have now. I have never played with Phil or any other big name like him. I am going off what I saw from two up and coming players(Brown and Kisner) and one player that is over 50 and never won on the PGA tour but can still flat out play. I am a + handicap(right around scratch) and do not work at it. Every once in awhile I can throw up a 68 or so, but the chances are that most PGA Tour pros easily put that up as well.

 

Of course I have seen them play bad, and on a long course that is an average course in America they play bad on it and still shoot a couple under par. It sounds like the course in question is not such a course. It sounds a lot like Echelon north of Atlanta with a 74.9/150 rating and almost 7100 yards from one set of tees up from the tips. At the tips Echelon plays 77.8/154 at 7550 yards. Until you have played it 5 or 6 times it can jump and bite anyone very easily.

 

 

 

But you said there wasn't even a debate. So.....there is a debate?

 

I guess there is a debate. A small one. Which kind of scratch are you talking about, is the main issue. The guy who grinds all his life to be a scratch and never shoots more than one under on his home course, but shoots three or four over most away courses. The other kind of scratch is the guy who played a ton of amateur golf, maybe played in college, and has posted some low numbers. Now he doesn't practice a ton and shoots scores at any course anywhere from 4 under to 6 over.

 

The second scratch I know very well, I have played numerous rounds with them over the years, they are bracket busters in handicap tournaments quite often. Those guys on their home track stand a better chance of beating Phil. There are fewer of these than there are the "home scratch" or "try hard" scratch players so there is some debate as you said.

[TheCityGame]

Just for the record. . .you've got your quotes all mixed up. Half of what you quoted to me is stuff you said, or someone else said.

 

Also, as a guy who doesn't belong to a private club (my "club" is a men's club at a public course). . .I don't know many of these "club scratches" you guys seem to know about. All the low guys I know have played forever, played in state golf association events, maybe sometime in the past tried an open qualifier, played in club championships. Not on a mini-tour, maybe not in college, but I just don't know many scratches who have spent their lives only playing for $5 nassaus.

[b.helts]

what is a "FGI Custom Grind"?

 

I feel like I should know this but I just don't. I understand the custom grind part, but what kind of wedge is FGI?

 

I guess the question is what is a FGI wedge?