Too Shallow = No spin Monte Help

[lawrencedc1]

So...Here it goes!

 

First let me disclose I am a mid-cap hack who as of recent is a ardent follower of Monte on here.

 

I am on a quest to get spin. I went to a trackman fitting today and posted these averages:

 

BS: 118.9 CSpeed: 84.5 Launch ang. 16.2 Spin rate: 4810 Carry 179.7 Total: 193.5 Attack Ang: -1.1 club path 4.1

 

Dynamic loft: 20.2 land ang: 41.1 Smash: 1.41

 

All of this with the mizuno optimizer which was fairly mundane at 4-5 except my release factor which was an 8! Very Early! Am I a dreaded Flipper?

 

So the fitter tells me after numerous shafts, I am too shallow and do not create enough spin on the ball, and proceeds to tell me to get steep! :nono:

I can say this "Monte if your listening" my only feel or intent from the columbus clinic is "right shoulder at ball in a secondary tilt" Now I miss Fat and miss left frequently. Should I have another "intent" or am I just gonna have to live with low spin and an early release. Help

[MadGolfer76]

If you are making good contact, you should be getting good spin, all things being equal.

 

Unless that is where the "mid-cap hack" part comes in...?

[jut111]

what club are you hitting with those numbers?

[lawrencedc1]

6 iron. Smash in the high 140s still produces same Results

[Kuuuch]

How long have you worked on the new intent?

[lawrencedc1]

How long have you worked on the new intent?

 

His Columbus 2014 clinic. So roughly 18 months

[Schnee]

How long have you worked on the new intent?

 

His Columbus 2014 clinic. So roughly 18 months

 

Could be time for a new intent. 18 Months is plenty of time for changes to set in. You probably just have to find a happy medium. I'd take some video for Monte.

[GaryRead]

You can have a steep swing, Cast and still be shallow!! Be careful what you deduce from that fit and the fitters advice to be steeper.

 

And if you a mid to high capper chances are... You are all the above, especially considering the mizuno thing indicated and early release.

 

Need video to determine.

[lawrencedc1]

I'll see if I can drudge Montes video of my swing up. I will say if he thought I was steep then I would have got a comment regarding that, but who knows

[starsail85]

Regardless of what you could or should be doing swing wise , try the project a taylormade ball, perfect for your numbers

[MonteScheinblum]

This is what happens when someone with a launch monitor and tour averages ruins someone. Just because the tour average is 6000, doesn't mean 4800 is something that needs changing. It's also very possible if you changed your swing to get steeper you could spin it less.

 

Most people would kill for down 1 and 20* of dymanic loft on a 6 iron that goes 180 with a 4 right path. A 6 iron has roughly 30-32 loft, so 20 dynamic loft is not flipped. Could make an augment that's not enough loft and hitting down more would decrease that number.

 

I am not hacking on you Lawrence, I am hacking on the guy who told you this nonsense.

[starsail85]

That would equate to 11-13 degrees of shaft lean at impact , weakening lofts could help here ?

[lawrencedc1]

Always a breath of fresh air. Thank you Monte, you are appreciated

[Kuuuch]

Always a breath of fresh air. Thank you Monte, you are appreciated

 

If you did want more spin, starsail was right in that the project a balls do spin a lot. Hard not to let peoples suggestions get to you sometimes especially at fittings. I was barely taking divots for a month during the summer although I was playing my best I ever have, a friend of mine noticed it and said man you must be doing something wrong if you're not taking divots hardly at all. Ended up torching my AOA. And that's why I've made a deal with myself to only implement what my instructor says.

[iteachgolf]

I'd still say -1.1 is way too shallow with a 6 iron and is why you tend to hit it fat. At that angle of attack the bounce will often hit before the leading edge moving low point behind the ball. Not to mention when you get to longer clubs low point won't be far enough forward resulting in dropkicks and fat shots

 

To me it has nothing to do with the low spin number. It's about making solid contact with low point far enough in front of the ball.

[MonteScheinblum]

^That is the point.

 

What do the numbers say in relation to your miss, not against a chart of arbitrary correctness.

[iteachgolf]

^That is the point.

 

What do the numbers say in relation to your miss, not against a chart of arbitrary correctness.

 

But you said most would kill for 1 down on a 6 iron. I'm saying that if most got to -1 on a 6 iron they'd hit as many fat shots and solid ones and would be far too shallow.

 

Your post makes it seem like his aoa is fine and there is no issue.

[MonteScheinblum]

^That is the point.

 

What do the numbers say in relation to your miss, not against a chart of arbitrary correctness.

 

But you said most would kill for 1 down on a 6 iron. I'm saying that if most got to -1 on a 6 iron they'd hit as many fat shots and solid ones and would be far too shallow.

 

Your post makes it seem like his aoa is fine and there is no issue.

 

I was making a point it wasn't about AoA and spin. If you can deliver down 1 and 20* and a 6 iron and hit it, spin of 4800 isn't a problem.

 

I was refuting getting steeper for spin just because was a joke.

 

Getting his right shoulder out more and less down will move the swing bottom forward. He shouldn't be trying to swing down more to get more spin.

[lawrencedc1]

Is there something I should be doing extra to stop the fat shots, or continue to perfect the right shoulder out?

[GaryRead]

Get a decent video up!!!!!

[PJ1120]

^That is the point.

 

What do the numbers say in relation to your miss, not against a chart of arbitrary correctness.

 

But you said most would kill for 1 down on a 6 iron. I'm saying that if most got to -1 on a 6 iron they'd hit as many fat shots and solid ones and would be far too shallow.

 

Your post makes it seem like his aoa is fine and there is no issue.

 

I was making a point it wasn't about AoA and spin. If you can deliver down 1 and 20* and a 6 iron and hit it, spin of 4800 isn't a problem.

 

I was refuting getting steeper for spin just because was a joke.

 

Getting his right shoulder out more and less down will move the swing bottom forward. He shouldn't be trying to swing down more to get more spin.

 

I'm a little confused. Dropping right shoulder down in DS is a shallowing move right? So more out and less down would increase AoA (steepen) wouldn't it. I know if I swing too shallow I it fat shots.

[MonteScheinblum]

^That is the point.

 

What do the numbers say in relation to your miss, not against a chart of arbitrary correctness.

 

But you said most would kill for 1 down on a 6 iron. I'm saying that if most got to -1 on a 6 iron they'd hit as many fat shots and solid ones and would be far too shallow.

 

Your post makes it seem like his aoa is fine and there is no issue.

 

I was making a point it wasn't about AoA and spin. If you can deliver down 1 and 20* and a 6 iron and hit it, spin of 4800 isn't a problem.

 

I was refuting getting steeper for spin just because was a joke.

 

Getting his right shoulder out more and less down will move the swing bottom forward. He shouldn't be trying to swing down more to get more spin.

 

I'm a little confused. Dropping right shoulder down in DS is a shallowing move right? So more out and less down would increase AoA (steepen) wouldn't it. I know if I swing too shallow I it fat shots.

 

Correct. My original point was not to chase numbers...and hitting down more is a result, not something you chase.

[iteachgolf]

^That is the point.

 

What do the numbers say in relation to your miss, not against a chart of arbitrary correctness.

 

But you said most would kill for 1 down on a 6 iron. I'm saying that if most got to -1 on a 6 iron they'd hit as many fat shots and solid ones and would be far too shallow.

 

Your post makes it seem like his aoa is fine and there is no issue.

 

I was making a point it wasn't about AoA and spin. If you can deliver down 1 and 20* and a 6 iron and hit it, spin of 4800 isn't a problem.

 

I was refuting getting steeper for spin just because was a joke.

 

Getting his right shoulder out more and less down will move the swing bottom forward. He shouldn't be trying to swing down more to get more spin.

 

Except that moving the should more out will get him hitting more down on it and being steeper. So by trying to get his shoulder out he is trying to hit more down on it. Your post is confusing to me.

 

Getting steeper wasn't just because, he is too shallow. He needs to get steeper. It will likely also help him spin it more which would almost certainly help his longer clubs as I'm guessing he has issues keeping long irons in the air and hit them at all due to both spin and AOA.

[MonteScheinblum]

Is there something I should be doing extra to stop the fat shots, or continue to perfect the right shoulder out?

 

Would have to see it. Right shoulder out more moves swing bottom forward, but there could be another issue (s).

[starsail85]

Someone explain to me how getting steeper increases spin? I was under the impression that when attack angle goes down so does dynamic loft?

[Cape]

Can someone provide what the ideal range is for a 6i AoA and spin numbers based on 95MPH swingspeed? just so I have a reference point. I never knew coming in too shallow can result in fat shots...

[starsail85]

Can someone provide what the ideal range is for a 6i AoA and spin numbers based on 95MPH swingspeed? just so I have a reference point. I never knew coming in too shallow can result in fat shots...

 

I know that mine is 87mph and they were fitting me to 6000 spin 18 degree launch angle

 

I'm guessing yours wouldn't be that different to that .

[GaryRead]

Someone explain to me how getting steeper increases spin? I was under the impression that when attack angle goes down so does dynamic loft?

 

If attack angle steepens more than the dynamic loft lowers then the face and path are further away from one another so it would in that case increase spin.

 

 

[starsail85]

Someone explain to me how getting steeper increases spin? I was under the impression that when attack angle goes down so does dynamic loft?

 

If attack angle steepens more than the dynamic loft lowers then the face and path are further away from one another so it would in that case increase spin.

 

Yes that makes sense

 

I was under the impression that that attack and dynamic loft tend to lower by the same amount when you steepen the attack ?

[GaryRead]

Perhaps in some cases but in others steep could be caused or is accompanied by an open face. An open face is more lofted relatively speaking so before you know it you've got a recipe for a spinny go no where where slice!