Jump to content

Lets build a Hogan Spec club...


Recommended Posts

Don't know hogans specs and this is slightly ot, but most blades from that era were butt oogly clubs. Was in a pawn shop recently and saw some macgregors and other brands that i wouldn't even want to make practice swings with. Reminded me of extra parts from WWII fighter planes or something.
No point to wax nostalgic, Equipment today is soooooooo much better.

TM Stealth Plus 10.5 Ventus TR Velocore Red 5

Ping G425 Max 5 FW 17.5 Ventus Velocore Red 7

Srixon ZX MKII 3UT MMT 95

Callaway X Forged CB 21' 4-PW Modus 120

Yururi Tataki 52.5, 56.5 and 60.5 DG S200
Ping Anser 2
MCC +4 Grips
Kirkland Performance+ Ball

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name=''53 Precision' timestamp='1317238600' post='3599163']
[quote name='moehogan' timestamp='1317126808' post='3594052']
Mr. H played MacGregor gear for most of his competitive years ... first Hogan Co. clubs appeared in 1954. I'll check with my club repair guy to see if any of the old time Mac guys are still with us. Most of the Mac talent stayed in town when the company moved to GA in the early sixties. One of them was Howard Delaney who started Cincinnati Golf ... bought much of the Mac equipment and materials that the company did not move to their new digs. Unfortunately, Howard passed away several years ago but there might be somebody who worked for him who might know something. Btw, Howard used to adjust lofts/lies with a rawhide hammer, not a bending bar ... blew me away the first time I saw him do it.
[/quote]

A little off topic but I have a set of Howard Delaney, Cincinatti Golf woods, some of the most gorgeous persimmon heads I have ever seen with sweep back soles and red inserts. I showed them to a former MacGregor staff player and his opinion is they are from old MacGregor stock which Mr. Delaney built and placed his company information on the sole plates.
[/quote]
Howard bought a lot of Macs old stock and equipment when they split ... if you paid for it, I guess it's yours! LOL.

In the 80's, he built a driver for a friend of mine to replace his Toney Penna that had cracked in the neck. It looked identical to the TP with the most beautiful gloss black finish I had ever seen. A piece of art!

53???? Precision ... you don't exist! LOL ... very clever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='golfbulldog1' timestamp='1317070419' post='3592593']
OK - so it is always going to involve a number of assumptions, guesses etc...any one of which might be open to 30 forum pages of debate... so please keep crtitique short and pithy! :)

I will rank the quality of evidence for each assumption (in the style of "evidence based medicine" ranking of data) eg:

Level 1 = Known major winning set of Hogan clubs which has been blueprinted, measured etc by a global clubfitting guru with the results being confirmed by at least one other global clubfitting guru

Level 2 = Hogan's own hand written club specs on paper but without any club data to confirm (would accept Gene Sheeley's hand written notes too)

Level 3 = A notable pro or clubfitter who has handled definite Hogan clubs and made subjective assessment (but not objective measurements)

Level 4 = A non-pro who has commented on Hogan clubs but not made measurements

etc (or something like that...you get the drift ...)

You can see that most of the comments on Hogan's iron specs are in the Level 3/4 category... anecdotal evidence at best...so hard to prove one way or another...

I would love to get level 1 evidence of what he was really playing because it sounds so different from the style of clubs most people are fitted for nowadays...

So here goes

[u]Assumptions[/u]:

1. Hogan clubs had a high dead-weight (evidence level 3 and 4)
2. Hogan clubs head a relatively "normal swing weight" (level 2-3 here... I am taking Jody Vasquez specs - in Afternoons with Mr Hogan - as real)
3. Iron head weights were similar to those of irons you could buy from his company (mega assumption (level 99) but you see some Powerthrust irons in photos with Ben playing occasionally (without excess lead tape) and Jody say that Hogan played '62 Powerthrust irons.
4. Shaft weight was heavy ( at least an X300 raw weight) (level 3)
5. Counterbalanced as required to get the relatively normal swing weights (level 4)
6. The swing weight calculator from (see bottom right corner of webpage) :
[url="http://www.myostrichgolf.com/"]http://www.myostrichgolf.com/[/url]
is reasonably accurate... it is the only one I have...
7.This swing weight estimator works...
[url="http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWEIGHT"]http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWEIGHT[/url]


So:

- the weight of the 5 iron 1962 Powertrhust iron I have is 268 grams
- X300 raw shaft weight is 134 grams (taper tip as per website):
[url="http://www.truetemper.com/golf/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=2"]http://www.truetempe...1&products_id=2[/url]
- Grip weight about 50 grams (big guess as I have no idea what leather grip weighs)
- 5 iron shaft length 38 inches (from Jody Vasquez book) (SEE EDIT AT BOTTOM)

feed that into that swing weight calculator from assumption 6. (without tip or butt weight) and it gives you SW = D7.4

This is the sort of SW that Lag Erickson is playing and advocates for his teaching... certainly fits with the sense of heaviness most people describe...but doesn't fit with Jody Vasquez comments or with reports about Knudson (who was heavily influenced by Hogan) using heavy but normal swing weight clubs....see Norm Moote interview with Ralph Perez (around 12 minutes ...he accidently muddles swingweight and dead weight but he is quite specific):

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f16YKrYYeJg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]http://www.youtube.c...n_order&list=UL[/url]

If you add 32 grams in the butt ...then you have a D1 swing weight, a dead weight of 468 grams.... it feels really heavy and yet seems to have a "normal SW"....

I have not built it yet ...when I do I may have to setttle for X100 sinc e not sure if I have seen X300 around....

I have done an experiment with an old Hogan Precision 4 iron (rings on Hosel, True temper rocket shaft and old leather grip)

With 30 grams added to butt....it comes out as D0 and dead weight 467g. not hit it yet in this form....but feels heavy!

Interesting that by adding between 25 -30 grams butt weight to standard Hogan spec irons you get very close to Vasquez version of Hogan specs....

Comments??

Remember I am not club-builder...I can rip off heads and grips ...refit and glue etc... but no swingweight scale... my butt weighting amounts to strapping 20 pence pieces to the butt end of club...

Hope that some of the real clubbuilders can take over. Thanks.

EDIT :Sorry Hogan 5 iron was 37.5 inches.....

Maybe an expert can add some accuracy??
[/quote]

I haven't read all the post so maybe someone already said this but the raw weight of the shaft will decrease when it is trimmed. I believe that is the raw weight of the uncut shaft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='sajohnson' timestamp='1317090282' post='3593397']
Interesting topic. I think you're on the right track with the heavier forgings. The leather grips might weigh a little more than 50g, not sure though. Don't forget flat lies!

You can get X300s at the link below. They have .355 and .370 versions.

http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_DGI

I got one to test in a 6 iron and found it to be quite a nice shaft and basically the heaviest you can get. Weren't there X500s back in the day?
[/quote]


There were X500's in the day. Don't think the DG shafts of today are the same as the past. Why? Old DG shafts were X100, X200, X300, X400, & X500 but they were based on a shaft length that was (I think) 1" shorter than today's model. Also, there was a different Dynamic shaft the was considered a NDIS (I think New Dynamic Iron Shaft) which was a predecessor to todays Dynamic Gold shaft and is not the same shaft. Nicklaus uses the NDIS in his day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1317180525' post='3596343']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1317179779' post='3596275']
Just as a side discussion,does anyone know why Hogan never wore a glove?With all that practice it must rip his hands up.Fred Couple doesn't wear a glove but you never see him on the practice tee.

It's quite interesting that Moe didn't wear a glove either.Could the reason be economics?
[/quote]


Toney penna never wore a glove neither did Hogan. I think Couples was the last major winner, possibly Faldo ,without a glove. The prevailing theory at that time was no glove equals more feel, tactile senses. Also, small hands meant big grips. toney used 1 /16 oversize I think Hogan was the same. Charley penna wore a cadet medium glove and 1/32 oversize grips
[/quote]
Can someone explain the smaller hands mean bigger grips?
Thanks.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1317261676' post='3600897']
Don't know hogans specs and this is slightly ot, but most blades from that era were butt oogly clubs. Was in a pawn shop recently and saw some macgregors and other brands that i wouldn't even want to make practice swings with. Reminded me of extra parts from WWII fighter planes or something.
No point to wax nostalgic, [i][u]Equipment today is soooooooo much better[/u][/i].
[/quote]


Agreed... the equipment made today is better....

But your description fits the limited LH equipment from this period....

Their response?

"...ugly is better than none....."

Think there were ever any LH Hogan Precision irons made?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1317963658' post='3637751']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1317088494' post='3593310']
Interesting that the two best ballstrikers used very heavy clubs.Moe's driver was even heavier at 16 ounces.That is almost double the weight of todays drivers.
[/quote]

Yes. Moe and I would practice together fairly often in Orlando. We both had E1 to E5 S weight w/drivers mine often being a shade heavier than his. He enjoyed hitting my club and I liked his also. Those were wooden drivers. A lot of players used high SW.

We always went very stiff shafts (less droop) and the extra SW helped unstiff the shafts a notch or two.

Equipment is far more sophisticated now.
[/quote]
That must have been something.Hitting balls with Moe.

Elkington wrote in his book that he preferred heavy equipment as well.He felt it improved his rhythm and Steve certainly has that in spades.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='jgonz69' timestamp='1317962562' post='3637697']
[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1317180525' post='3596343']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1317179779' post='3596275']
Just as a side discussion,does anyone know why Hogan never wore a glove?With all that practice it must rip his hands up.Fred Couple doesn't wear a glove but you never see him on the practice tee.

It's quite interesting that Moe didn't wear a glove either.Could the reason be economics?
[/quote]


Toney penna never wore a glove neither did Hogan. I think Couples was the last major winner, possibly Faldo ,without a glove. The prevailing theory at that time was no glove equals more feel, tactile senses. Also, small hands meant big grips. toney used 1 /16 oversize I think Hogan was the same. Charley penna wore a cadet medium glove and 1/32 oversize grips
[/quote]
Can someone explain the smaller hands mean bigger grips?
Thanks.
[/quote]



I have clubs which were used by Tommy Armour circa 1935. He had very large fingers. There is a minimum of under listing, one wrap
His rationale was to grip the club in the fingers. IE-hold a club over your head and put your hands on it as if you were going to do a pull
To chin yourself. The thumb of his right hand applied no pressure. No matter how effective, anyone who faded the ball was a hacker in his opinion. Bear in mind he won every major of his day with only 40% sight in one eye and 60% in the other eye. He also was an alcoholic. He began the day with a bromoseltzer followed by a water glass filled with half milk and half scotch whiskey

Charley Penna

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1318011640' post='3640085']
[quote name='jgonz69' timestamp='1317962562' post='3637697']
[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1317180525' post='3596343']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1317179779' post='3596275']
Just as a side discussion,does anyone know why Hogan never wore a glove?With all that practice it must rip his hands up.Fred Couple doesn't wear a glove but you never see him on the practice tee.

It's quite interesting that Moe didn't wear a glove either.Could the reason be economics?
[/quote]


Toney penna never wore a glove neither did Hogan. I think Couples was the last major winner, possibly Faldo ,without a glove. The prevailing theory at that time was no glove equals more feel, tactile senses. Also, small hands meant big grips. toney used 1 /16 oversize I think Hogan was the same. Charley penna wore a cadet medium glove and 1/32 oversize grips
[/quote]
Can someone explain the smaller hands mean bigger grips?
Thanks.
[/quote]



I have clubs which were used by Tommy Armour circa 1935. He had very large fingers. There is a minimum of under listing, one wrap
His rationale was to grip the club in the fingers. IE-hold a club over your head and put your hands on it as if you were going to do a pull
To chin yourself. The thumb of his right hand applied no pressure. No matter how effective, anyone who faded the ball was a hacker in his opinion. Bear in mind he won every major of his day with only 40% sight in one eye and 60% in the other eye. He also was an alcoholic. He began the day with a bromoseltzer followed by a water glass filled with half milk and half scotch whiskey

Charley Penna
[/quote]

Thanks for your input, Charley. Great to have someone with your experience and family connections on the forum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about that grip? Was there a slight reverse taper? That thing looks like a cat tail
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-zIgD76VLDI4/S1qvhIgADzI/AAAAAAAAADw/v-97yGLdxto/Ben%252520Hogan%252520Grip%252520Close%252520Up%252520Photo.jpg

TM Stealth Plus 10.5 Ventus TR Velocore Red 5

Ping G425 Max 5 FW 17.5 Ventus Velocore Red 7

Srixon ZX MKII 3UT MMT 95

Callaway X Forged CB 21' 4-PW Modus 120

Yururi Tataki 52.5, 56.5 and 60.5 DG S200
Ping Anser 2
MCC +4 Grips
Kirkland Performance+ Ball

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1318132353' post='3646337']
What about that grip? Was there a slight reverse taper? That thing looks like a cat tail
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-zIgD76VLDI4/S1qvhIgADzI/AAAAAAAAADw/v-97yGLdxto/Ben%252520Hogan%252520Grip%252520Close%252520Up%252520Photo.jpg
[/quote]




The picture is early Hogan it shows a Burke Par grip with the seam installed on the side instead of down (under the hands facing the ground when gripped)

Charley Penna

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...

I knew George Knudsen quite well back in the 80's.I was one of his pupils. I used GK19 Mizuno irons which were built to George's specs. Talking to George about clubs I remember him telling me that he used the specs the Hogan used. The irons were counter balanced and the swing weight was c-8. Used precision 8.0 shafts. This appears to be in line with what is being discussed here. George did have sets made after the GK19. He had a set and I can't remember what heads but had X-500 dynamic golf and he didn't like them. His last set of irons that were being built for him were Titleist forgings with 8.0 precison shafts.

 

The GK19 Mizuno iron was quite easy to hit. Didn't feel excessively heavy or stiff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Discussion and links to Photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Thorbjorn Olesen - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ben Silverman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jesse Droemer - SoTX PGA Section POY - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      David Lipsky - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Martin Trainer - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Zac Blair - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jacob Bridgeman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB(very mini) - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Callum McNeill - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Rhein Gibson - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 7 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

×
×
  • Create New...