Ping lie angles and shaft length

[Ref-oreg]

I have read that Ping bends the lie angle flat one color code for each 1/2" of added length when clubs are ordered. Doesn't that mess up results from their fitting cart. In a fitting from a highly rated fitter last year my best results were hitting a green dot head (+2.25%) with a shaft 1 1/2" extra long. That would be based on an absolute lie from the demo club/shaft combo. If I were to order a set with those specs, and if Ping were to go flat three color codes, I would receive the equivalent lie if black dot (0%) standard length. Do I have to order a more upright lie if I also order extra long shafts?

[Nessism]

Yes, I believe you would have to order maroon at + 1.5" in order to have the heads at +2.25 upright. Those clubs will play extremely upright.

 

BTW, how tall are you?

[jj9000]

What am I missing here?

 

You hit a Green Dot +1.5" and saw great results.

 

Why would you not order Green Dot +1.5"?

[Ref-oreg]

6' 4". Wrist to floor is 38". The Ping chart says silver dot, plus 1/2". My irons miss tends to be hitting thin. The fitter had me try longer shafts with white or green dot. The best results were green dot, plus 1 1/2" length.

[Ref-oreg]

My understanding is if I were to custom order green dot, plus 1 1/2" I would get the equivalent of black dot off the fitting cart. Any thoughts on why fitters don't factor this in?

[Nessism]

My understanding is if I were to custom order green dot, plus 1 1/2" I would get the equivalent of black dot off the fitting cart. Any thoughts on why fitters don't factor this in?

 

I think you need a Ping Fitting Cart expert to answer this question. I believe there is already some compensation built into the heads in the cart. We are second guessing the fitter and that's always dangerous assuming he knows what he was doing.

 

BTW, I believe those clubs are too long for you. An 18 handicapper hitting the ball thin is part and parcial to learning how to play the game. I've be very cautious with going more than 1/2" longer than the static fitting suggests.

[Ref-oreg]

Nessism, thanks for the input. I plan to do another fitting this spring.

[Ref-oreg]

If my iron shafts are too long, would choking up when I grip create the same effect as shortening the shafts?

[Ref-oreg]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

[Milfordlefty]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

 

At the latest demo day, were you hitting green dots when you tried the Ping's. My understanding Ping fits for lie first, then length, while the other mfg seem to go the opposite, length than lie. Of the 3 (Ping, Titeist, Mizuno), which were you hitting the most consistent, not necessarily the longest?

[mac94]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

 

At the latest demo day, were you hitting green dots when you tried the Ping's. My understanding Ping fits for lie first, then length, while the other mfg seem to go the opposite, length than lie. Of the 3 (Ping, Titeist, Mizuno), which were you hitting the most consistent, not necessarily the longest?

 

Can't imagine ping doing that. Length must be fit first.

[Nessism]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

 

Okay, but realize that those three companies don't use the same length standard. More specifically, I wouldn't go +1" if you are talking about Ping G's for example because that model club uses an unusual length stepping between clubs. At most you should spec the 5-iron at 38.75" long, not longer.

[sTmGolfer]

If you take a black color coded head from the PING fitting heads, it only plays black when a standard length shaft is inserted.

 

When you put a +1/2" shaft in, it now plays blue dot. +1" will now play yellow dot, and so on. Each 1/2" changes the color code by one ON THE FITTING CART HEADS.

 

So if you were fit at 1.5" green dot, order it that way from PING.

 

All of PINGs color codes are effective lie angles, which essentially means how upright or flat it will play based on length.

 

Person A - orders black dot, std length.

 

Person B - orders yellow dot, +1"

 

If you were to remove the shafts, both heads will measure the same lie angle. Person B will have irons that effectively play more upright due to the length.

 

Hopefully that helps clarify.

[Milfordlefty]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

 

At the latest demo day, were you hitting green dots when you tried the Ping's. My understanding Ping fits for lie first, then length, while the other mfg seem to go the opposite, length than lie. Of the 3 (Ping, Titeist, Mizuno), which were you hitting the most consistent, not necessarily the longest?

 

Can't imagine ping doing that. Length must be fit first.

 

That is how I was fitted by a Ping fitter, lie then length.

[Ref-oreg]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

 

At the latest demo day, were you hitting green dots when you tried the Ping's. My understanding Ping fits for lie first, then length, while the other mfg seem to go the opposite, length than lie. Of the 3 (Ping, Titeist, Mizuno), which were you hitting the most consistent, not necessarily the longest?

 

I was hit Ping yellow, green, and white dots. Titleist was 3* upright. Mizuno was 4* upright. The Pint G white dot was the most consistent followed closely by the Titleist AP1.

[Ref-oreg]

If you take a black color coded head from the PING fitting heads, it only plays black when a standard length shaft is inserted.

 

When you put a +1/2" shaft in, it now plays blue dot. +1" will now play yellow dot, and so on. Each 1/2" changes the color code by one ON THE FITTING CART HEADS.

 

So if you were fit at 1.5" green dot, order it that way from PING.

 

All of PINGs color codes are effective lie angles, which essentially means how upright or flat it will play based on length.

 

Person A - orders black dot, std length.

 

Person B - orders yellow dot, +1"

 

If you were to remove the shafts, both heads will measure the same lie angle. Person B will have irons that effectively play more upright due to the length.

 

Hopefully that helps clarify.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Milfordlefty]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

 

At the latest demo day, were you hitting green dots when you tried the Ping's. My understanding Ping fits for lie first, then length, while the other mfg seem to go the opposite, length than lie. Of the 3 (Ping, Titeist, Mizuno), which were you hitting the most consistent, not necessarily the longest?

 

I was hit Ping yellow, green, and white dots. Titleist was 3* upright. Mizuno was 4* upright. The Pint G white dot was the most consistent followed closely by the Titleist AP1.

My static fit via the Ping website had me in Red dot, but I hit the Blue dots (+1.5º more upright) better. Length between the static and hitting was the same, -0.25".

[mac94]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

 

At the latest demo day, were you hitting green dots when you tried the Ping's. My understanding Ping fits for lie first, then length, while the other mfg seem to go the opposite, length than lie. Of the 3 (Ping, Titeist, Mizuno), which were you hitting the most consistent, not necessarily the longest?

 

Can't imagine ping doing that. Length must be fit first.

 

That is how I was fitted by a Ping fitter, lie then length.

 

How in the world can a fitter know the proper lie angle before the length is fit? He has it backwards.

[LCP]

Look at my sig. I'm plus 1.75" to plus 2" with maroon dot. You want maroon dot to get 2.25º upright and +1.5" from standard specs. I've verified the lie on my clubs and that is consistent with what I state. Now, many years ago, you could have ordered "green dot" lie and +1.5" and gotten what you want -- that's how I ordered a set to those specs in the 1990's. But Ping doesn't do it that way anymore, although I will give you a caveat: A few years ago, I ordered silver dot (one dot less upright than maroon dot) Gorge wedges at +2", thinking they would be 1.5º upright. I didn't measure their lies ever until this weekend. They were closer to 4º upright (69º lie angle), so I really got something like triple maroon dot. My natural shot/miss with those has always been a pull. I've now bent them 2º flat from there, getting back closer to 2º upright and +2" (closer to true maroon/silver dot). I think the fitter who custom ordered them for me had been around long enough that he knew how to order them "the old way" so that I got "silver dot" lie (+3.75º) and +2", when I really wanted modern silver dot length/lie combo (or something similar to old "green dot" lie and +1.5"

[LCP]

6' 4". Wrist to floor is 38". The Ping chart says silver dot, plus 1/2". My irons miss tends to be hitting thin. The fitter had me try longer shafts with white or green dot. The best results were green dot, plus 1 1/2" length.

 

Get the clubs as long as you like to swing them comfortably and hit them well from different lies. Tall golfers are notoriously misfit into clubs too short for them. (I'm 6'5") Given the range of heights in the vast majority of the general population, clubs should probably vary 6 inches depending on height of the golfer, but it's not even the norm for the standard range of adjustment to be even half of that.

[MattMo]

If you take a black color coded head from the PING fitting heads, it only plays black when a standard length shaft is inserted.

 

When you put a +1/2" shaft in, it now plays blue dot. +1" will now play yellow dot, and so on. Each 1/2" changes the color code by one ON THE FITTING CART HEADS.

 

So if you were fit at 1.5" green dot, order it that way from PING.

 

All of PINGs color codes are effective lie angles, which essentially means how upright or flat it will play based on length.

 

Person A - orders black dot, std length.

 

Person B - orders yellow dot, +1"

 

If you were to remove the shafts, both heads will measure the same lie angle. Person B will have irons that effectively play more upright due to the length.

 

Hopefully that helps clarify.

 

Unfortunately, some big box 'fitters' don't understand effective lie angle. If a customer says they play green dot + 1/2", and the fitter rigs up a green dot head with a +1/2" shaft, they're actually giving them white dot instead. Ping's old glued demos were fool proof, but the interchangeable heads and shafts mean these so called experts need at least some form competence to relay the best results to the correct specs to Ping.

 

Example, according to Ping Webfit, I should be silver dot +1/2". I found some standard length green dot G25s, I put 3/4" extensions in them so now they're between white and silver on the Ping chart, which is good enough to me. However, I've been catching a lot of shots fat, so not sure if that's from the additional length or not.

[Milfordlefty]

Nessism - thanks for the tip on shaft length. I went to a demo day yesterday and hit Ping, Titleist, and Mizuno. All three confirmed +1" is the right length for my game.

 

At the latest demo day, were you hitting green dots when you tried the Ping's. My understanding Ping fits for lie first, then length, while the other mfg seem to go the opposite, length than lie. Of the 3 (Ping, Titeist, Mizuno), which were you hitting the most consistent, not necessarily the longest?

 

Can't imagine ping doing that. Length must be fit first.

 

That is how I was fitted by a Ping fitter, lie then length.

 

How in the world can a fitter know the proper lie angle before the length is fit? He has it backwards.

 

Sorry, you will need to tell Ping to train their fitters differently to your way of thinking.

[duffer888]

I've had 2 Ping fittings (by Ping guys) at an outdoor range and both times, they did a static measure, then start hitting clubs based on the color code cart, then adjust from there. So they don't do lie or length first, it's what color code chart says, which tells them both. then they do the lie board, then hitting balls.

 

So on the new system, my I started hitting balls with purple, 1/4" short, but they don't have that length, so I started purple, standard length. Then tried an orange dot. Flight was similar so fitter said I could go either way.

 

On the old system, I was red, 1/2" short and that is what they started me at and that was the fit, other than shaft flex.

 

IMHO, keep it simple and either trust the Ping fitting system or choose another brand, like Mizuno forged and bend and chop away.

[sTmGolfer]

If you take a black color coded head from the PING fitting heads, it only plays black when a standard length shaft is inserted.

 

When you put a +1/2" shaft in, it now plays blue dot. +1" will now play yellow dot, and so on. Each 1/2" changes the color code by one ON THE FITTING CART HEADS.

 

So if you were fit at 1.5" green dot, order it that way from PING.

 

All of PINGs color codes are effective lie angles, which essentially means how upright or flat it will play based on length.

 

Person A - orders black dot, std length.

 

Person B - orders yellow dot, +1"

 

If you were to remove the shafts, both heads will measure the same lie angle. Person B will have irons that effectively play more upright due to the length.

 

Hopefully that helps clarify.

 

Unfortunately, some big box 'fitters' don't understand effective lie angle. If a customer says they play green dot + 1/2", and the fitter rigs up a green dot head with a +1/2" shaft, they're actually giving them white dot instead. Ping's old glued demos were fool proof, but the interchangeable heads and shafts mean these so called experts need at least some form competence to relay the best results to the correct specs to Ping.

 

Example, according to Ping Webfit, I should be silver dot +1/2". I found some standard length green dot G25s, I put 3/4" extensions in them so now they're between white and silver on the Ping chart, which is good enough to me. However, I've been catching a lot of shots fat, so not sure if that's from the additional length or not.

 

You are quite correct. I've been a PING fitter for about 9 years and I forget how misinformed many/most customers are when I explain this to them. No fault of theirs ... it's can be complicated ... I just have to remind myself to make sure to explain the fitting system clearly to them so they truly understand what it is we are hitting and how all the things can change what they're seeing in their ball flight.

 

Just another reason why I believe it is important to get fit properly and by someone who knows what they're doing. Too often I hear people say "I don't like brand ________ ... I bought a set of irons and never could hit them." When I ask what their specs were, they either have no idea and/or were in something very different than what would help them play their best.

[wdfwguy]

If you take a black color coded head from the PING fitting heads, it only plays black when a standard length shaft is inserted.

 

When you put a +1/2" shaft in, it now plays blue dot. +1" will now play yellow dot, and so on. Each 1/2" changes the color code by one ON THE FITTING CART HEADS.

 

So if you were fit at 1.5" green dot, order it that way from PING.

 

All of PINGs color codes are effective lie angles, which essentially means how upright or flat it will play based on length.

 

Person A - orders black dot, std length.

 

Person B - orders yellow dot, +1"

 

If you were to remove the shafts, both heads will measure the same lie angle. Person B will have irons that effectively play more upright due to the length.

 

Hopefully that helps clarify.

 

If you take several Ping heads with no shafts, black, red, maroon dot, they'd all have the same lie angle? That makes no sense at all.

[Nessism]

If you take several Ping heads with no shafts, black, red, maroon dot, they'd all have the same lie angle? That makes no sense at all.

 

That's how it is.

[wdfwguy]

If you take several Ping heads with no shafts, black, red, maroon dot, they'd all have the same lie angle? That makes no sense at all.

 

That's how it is.

 

Then what's the point of having the different colored heads in the fitting cart if they're all the same lie angle? You'd have one head and different length shafts?

 

I think it's sort of a silly thought. I just hit some irons in a Ping fitting cart and the maroon head was noticeably more upright than the white or silver.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Look gents, I'm not going to go back and re"quote" and make amendments to the individual posts on here... so let's just clear some of the air as to what goes on in a Ping iron fitting...

 

1. Yes, you can confirm color code FIRST... a standard length shaft in the different color code heads (and YES, the fitting heads are their correct lie angle at STANDARD length, they are NOT all the same) can be used to establish the player's final color code (Ping will build the irons to be the correct color code that the player is fitted into at the final length ordered).

 

2. Yes, once color code is established it isn't "just that simple" the rest of the fitting... the obligation of the fitter is to put the right combination of fitting head, and certain fitting shaft together to create the new "effective" color code (for example: player fits into a Yellow color code, and wants to try an iron at +1"... than the fitter needs to use the Black fitting cart head and +1" shaft to get the player to Yellow).

 

3. The "fitting cart" is designed to help the fitter on HOW to use it... please guys next time your are at your local Ping retailer go find the cart... take a close look... it is clearly displayed what a color code fitting head added to a different length fitting shaft will result in... this is all marked on the drawers that hold the heads.

 

4. And going back to the OP's original post... at your static you're at Silver but maybe heading out of +1/2''... please, next fitter you go to try White fitting head and +1/2" shafts or Green fitting head and +1" shafts and test your comfort level with both... +1 1/2" is out of the cards (unless you have some sort of back issue?).

 

K.L.P.

PING 2015 Top 100 Fitter

[sTmGolfer]

If you take several Ping heads with no shafts, black, red, maroon dot, they'd all have the same lie angle? That makes no sense at all.

 

That's how it is.

 

That is not correct. Let me clarify/explain using an example. If you take three heads from the PING fitting cart, all UNSHAFTED fitting cart heads:

 

Head 1: marked purple dot

Head 2: marked black dot

Head 3: marked yellow dot

 

These three heads do NOT have the same STATIC lie angle (keep in mind, still unshafted fitting cart heads). However, if you insert different length shafts into those fitting cart heads, there may be some overlap as to their EFFECTIVE lie angle. Lets say you (A) inserted a standard length shaft into the yellow dot head and (B) inserted a +1" shaft into the black dot head, here is what the specs would come out to be:

 

(A) Yellow dot, standard length.

(B) Yellow dot, +1".

 

These two would now have the same EFFECTIVE lie angle, just being played at different lengths. There is a difference between static lie angle and effective lie angle. I think people misunderstanding of static vs effective lie angle is where most the confusion comes into play.

[bjofal]

Hello,

I was hitting the new Ping i, we tested lie with tape and I tested the red dot, I have played purple on my previus Ping.

We agreeed that I should play purple and Ping graphite regular shaft.

If I want to play 1/2" shorter shaft, would that be black, red or purple that I should test?