Circle T

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  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12929WRX Points: 472Posts: 12,929 ClubWRX
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    NoPar4Me wrote on Jan 16 2009, 08:38 AM:
    For a guy with a picture of Scotty as your aviator and a Cameron in your bag I have to say that I find your repeated negative comments to be a bit on the boring side.




    image/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    You are pretty new here. It goes from boring, to irritating, to just plain stupid. Now its kind of like a guy scratching his finger nails on the black board. I think that's exactly what he's after, so we tend to just ignore him now...



    Kevin
    Posted:
    I could be wrong
    I've been wrong before
    I'll be wrong again
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  • mattl2787mattl2787 Members  1245WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,245
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    How much do you think Scotty would charge for stamping a "Circle T" on my forehead? Maybe that'll make me a better putter... image/black eye.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':black eye:' />
    Posted:
  • blkdiamondblkdiamond Members  548WRX Points: 0Posts: 548
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    NoPar4Me wrote on Jan 16 2009, 07:38 AM:
    jick wrote on Dec 28 2008, 04:50 PM:
    Its just marketing and Cameron exploiting the public to making them think anything with a circle T came from the tour van or actually came from the hands of a tour player.



    But he has watered down the circle T branding so much that it is losing its value (check out ebay auctions for circle T stuff - not as high as it used to be).



    There is even a Circle T letter opener and ballmarker for crying out loud. That is how watered down he has made that brand. But as the saying goes, there still is a sucker born every minute.




    For a guy with a picture of Scotty as your aviator and a Cameron in your bag I have to say that I find your repeated negative comments to be a bit on the boring side.




    While I rarely see eye to eye with Jick on his Cameron posts I do agree with him here. I think the Circle T has been severely watered down recently. I have only been collecting Camerons for a little over a year and just in that short period of time I have seem numerous "consumer" products come out with the once exclusive tour only stamp. The first was the ball marking tool, which is one of the only Cameron products where every tool has the Circle T logo. Another example is the recent bag-tags and divot repair tools where every item is a Circle T. Personally, I would have preferred if Scotty had kept the Circle T logo more of a rarity.
    Posted:
  • jickjick Members  1151WRX Points: 223Posts: 1,151 Platinum Tees
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    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 16 2009, 11:58 PM:
    While I rarely see eye to eye with Jick on his Cameron posts I do agree with him here. I think the Circle T has been severely watered down recently. I have only been collecting Camerons for a little over a year and just in that short period of time I have seem numerous "consumer" products come out with the once exclusive tour only stamp. The first was the ball marking tool, which is one of the only Cameron products where every tool has the Circle T logo. Another example is the recent bag-tags and divot repair tools where every item is a Circle T. Personally, I would have preferred if Scotty had kept the Circle T logo more of a rarity.




    Cameron is a persuasive marketing genius who has great shrewdness and cunning. I truly applaud you for being able to see that the Circle T brand has been watered down. Aside from featuring it in most of his production products, Cameron has been using less and less of it on the tour. Now he has moved into other stampings such as "Acushnet" (in script) or used "XPerimental" much more often now than before. The latest one he is working on is "Est.1962" as a slogan. Obviously, he is slowly moving away from the Circle T and looking for new stampings to replace it. But at the end of the day, Cameron is still the most brilliant marketing mind in puttermaking history - he is the only one who can charge a premium for a single stamp that isn't even a complicated logo or drawing.
    Posted:
  • DaveyHDaveyH Jr. Boomers  2139WRX Points: 55Posts: 2,139 Platinum Tees
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    i wouldn't say hes a marketing genious, he is just exploiting the markets loyalty.

    Collectors are willing to pay for circle t's and 009's, therefore with the small market for them, he is able

    to charge stupid prices for putters.

    Car collectors pay stupid money for ''rare'' cars. These cars have prestige and history, a putter will either

    sink or swim theres nothing to back it up at all. Putt well or Putt poor is a chance you have to take

    and a $2,000 chance is quite a risk that im positive the majority of golfers would not be willing to take.
    Posted:
  • NoPar4MeNoPar4Me Unregistered  29WRX Points: 0Posts: 29
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    KevCarter wrote on Jan 16 2009, 09:52 AM:
    NoPar4Me wrote on Jan 16 2009, 08:38 AM:
    For a guy with a picture of Scotty as your aviator and a Cameron in your bag I have to say that I find your repeated negative comments to be a bit on the boring side.




    image/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    You are pretty new here. It goes from boring, to irritating, to just plain stupid. Now its kind of like a guy scratching his finger nails on the black board. I think that's exactly what he's after, so we tend to just ignore him now...



    Kevin




    Thanks Kevin. I agree.
    Posted:
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  • blkdiamondblkdiamond Members  548WRX Points: 0Posts: 548
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    jick wrote on Jan 16 2009, 09:23 AM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 16 2009, 11:58 PM:
    While I rarely see eye to eye with Jick on his Cameron posts I do agree with him here. I think the Circle T has been severely watered down recently. I have only been collecting Camerons for a little over a year and just in that short period of time I have seem numerous "consumer" products come out with the once exclusive tour only stamp. The first was the ball marking tool, which is one of the only Cameron products where every tool has the Circle T logo. Another example is the recent bag-tags and divot repair tools where every item is a Circle T. Personally, I would have preferred if Scotty had kept the Circle T logo more of a rarity.




    Cameron is a persuasive marketing genius who has great shrewdness and cunning. I truly applaud you for being able to see that the Circle T brand has been watered down. Aside from featuring it in most of his production products, Cameron has been using less and less of it on the tour. Now he has moved into other stampings such as "Acushnet" (in script) or used "XPerimental" much more often now than before. The latest one he is working on is "Est.1962" as a slogan. Obviously, he is slowly moving away from the Circle T and looking for new stampings to replace it. But at the end of the day, Cameron is still the most brilliant marketing mind in puttermaking history - he is the only one who can charge a premium for a single stamp that isn't even a complicated logo or drawing.






    If what you are saying is correct, that the Circle T is being replaced, I think that is really unfortunate. IMO the Circle T could be considered an iconic symbol and should stay that way by being an exclusive stamp or feature on tour only equipment. Yes items will make their way to the collector market from the tour, but IMO that makes them that much more special.
    Posted:
  • lighterlighter Members  104WRX Points: 56Posts: 104 Fairways
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    Posted:
  • jickjick Members  1151WRX Points: 223Posts: 1,151 Platinum Tees
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    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 17 2009, 01:14 AM:
    If what you are saying is correct, that the Circle T is being replaced, I think that is really unfortunate. IMO the Circle T could be considered an iconic symbol and should stay that way by being an exclusive stamp or feature on tour only equipment. Yes items will make their way to the collector market from the tour, but IMO that makes them that much more special.




    The Circle T won't be replaced for sure. But it will be used less and less on tour and more on retail stuff. Cameron has already reached the point of no return and watered down the Circle T. It can no longer be "revived" into being exclusive again, but it will forever be iconic and the stamp will keep its place in putter history forever. However, from a pure value standpoint if you are in it for the investment, the Circle T has definitely been watered down.
    Posted:
  • Jesperday Jesperday Members  626WRX Points: 0Posts: 626
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    jick wrote on Jan 16 2009, 12:41 PM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 17 2009, 01:14 AM:
    If what you are saying is correct, that the Circle T is being replaced, I think that is really unfortunate. IMO the Circle T could be considered an iconic symbol and should stay that way by being an exclusive stamp or feature on tour only equipment. Yes items will make their way to the collector market from the tour, but IMO that makes them that much more special.




    The Circle T won't be replaced for sure. But it will be used less and less on tour and more on retail stuff. Cameron has already reached the point of no return and watered down the Circle T. It can no longer be "revived" into being exclusive again, but it will forever be iconic and the stamp will keep its place in putter history forever. However, from a pure value standpoint if you are in it for the investment, the Circle T has definitely been watered down.








    Got any pics or examples of the other tour camerons w/o the circle t?
    Posted:
  • rrkmanrrkman Members  1182WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,182
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    bryan mountjoy wrote on Jan 16 2009, 01:35 PM:
    jick wrote on Jan 16 2009, 12:41 PM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 17 2009, 01:14 AM:
    If what you are saying is correct, that the Circle T is being replaced, I think that is really unfortunate. IMO the Circle T could be considered an iconic symbol and should stay that way by being an exclusive stamp or feature on tour only equipment. Yes items will make their way to the collector market from the tour, but IMO that makes them that much more special.




    The Circle T won't be replaced for sure. But it will be used less and less on tour and more on retail stuff. Cameron has already reached the point of no return and watered down the Circle T. It can no longer be "revived" into being exclusive again, but it will forever be iconic and the stamp will keep its place in putter history forever. However, from a pure value standpoint if you are in it for the investment, the Circle T has definitely been watered down.








    Got any pics or examples of the other tour camerons w/o the circle t?




    My question is the other side of this....have you ever seen a 'non-tour' putter with the circle T (not done in your garage)? And to answer your question, I believe that early camerons just had a T on them.



    Personally, I agree that the circle T logo has been used a little too often...and has become more of a logo than an official tour stamp....but, only for 'other' items - not putters. Maybe I'm wrong on all this but IMHO the economy has hurt these more than the 'watering' down effect.
    Posted:
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  • blkdiamondblkdiamond Members  548WRX Points: 0Posts: 548
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    rrkman wrote on Jan 16 2009, 11:50 AM:
    bryan mountjoy wrote on Jan 16 2009, 01:35 PM:
    jick wrote on Jan 16 2009, 12:41 PM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 17 2009, 01:14 AM:
    If what you are saying is correct, that the Circle T is being replaced, I think that is really unfortunate. IMO the Circle T could be considered an iconic symbol and should stay that way by being an exclusive stamp or feature on tour only equipment. Yes items will make their way to the collector market from the tour, but IMO that makes them that much more special.




    The Circle T won't be replaced for sure. But it will be used less and less on tour and more on retail stuff. Cameron has already reached the point of no return and watered down the Circle T. It can no longer be "revived" into being exclusive again, but it will forever be iconic and the stamp will keep its place in putter history forever. However, from a pure value standpoint if you are in it for the investment, the Circle T has definitely been watered down.








    Got any pics or examples of the other tour camerons w/o the circle t?




    My question is the other side of this....have you ever seen a 'non-tour' putter with the circle T (not done in your garage)? And to answer your question, I believe that early camerons just had a T on them.



    Personally, I agree that the circle T logo has been used a little too often...and has become more of a logo than an official tour stamp....but, only for 'other' items - not putters. Maybe I'm wrong on all this but IMHO the economy has hurt these more than the 'watering' down effect.




    My concern is not with Circle T putters, but with the over-use of the Circle T logo on other items coming from Cameron's shop. I think that this overuse has led to the Circle T logo not being reserved for exclusive, tour-only items. For example, a SC head-cover with the Circle T on it demands a premium price, as did the random Circle T pivot tools that were mixed in with the regular releases. Now we are seeing regular releases that are only Circle T's such as the ball-tool, the pivot tool and the bag tags.
    Posted:
  • rrkmanrrkman Members  1182WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,182
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    I certainly agree with what you are saying...if the circle T is used to designate items made for tour, then use it only for items made for tour. On the other side of it, it certainly has become a known 'mark' for cameron and it makes some sense to me to use it to market other 'non tour' items but he does need to be careful about over use....should probably stick to non-golfing items. Maybe clothing, etc....not the pivot tools, bag tags, etc.



    Hope this makes sense...and like I said, he needs to take it easy with all the pivot tools, bag tags, etc.
    Posted:
  • nobreak1970nobreak1970 Members  586WRX Points: 0Posts: 586
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    Has anyone tried to email the studio to get a definitive answer here?
    Posted:
  • rrkmanrrkman Members  1182WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,182
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    nobreak1970 wrote on Jan 16 2009, 11:00 PM:
    Has anyone tried to email the studio to get a definitive answer here?






    About getting a circle T on your putter? Not going to happen.....I would guess (and only a guess because I don't know any more about this than 99.9% of the folks on here) that the only way to get the circle T on an off the rack putter is to be a pro and have him personally make it like that for you.
    Posted:
  • Black Label JohnnyBlack Label Johnny Members  757WRX Points: 0Posts: 757
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    Tiger's is a GSS with Verticle stamping on the face. Which is an tour stick with the CT. Most CT's are handmade or hand milled as opposed to machine made or machine milled.
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  • hodgeshodges Account Hold  220WRX Points: 0Posts: 220
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    jick wrote on Jan 16 2009, 12:23 PM:
    Aside from featuring it in most of his production products, Cameron has been using less and less of it on the tour. Now he has moved into other stampings such as "Acushnet" (in script) or used "XPerimental" much more often now than before.




    Most of his production products. WRONG AGAIN



    For every product you name with a circle t bet I can name 2 without.



    Acushnet is the name of the company, Titleist is the name of the brand. Why wouldn't you stamp the companies name on some of your products?
    Posted:
  • jefffannjefffann pablo Members  202WRX Points: 0Posts: 202
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    Is this off point...wouldn't of $2000 been better spent on gold as an investment than a putter with circle t on it?
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  • RobotDoctorRobotDoctor Senior Hacker ClubWRX  4953WRX Points: 869Posts: 4,953 ClubWRX
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    IMO, the Circle T stamp is now a vanity stamp for the masses. I agree that the Circle T stamp was once prestigious and exclusive but now has become very common. I do agree with Jick on this one that Cameron has used this stamp as a marketing enticement. There are many collectors that seemingly tripped over themselves to buy a putter, any putter, that had a Circle T on it. A collector possessing a Circle T stamped putter was like a badge of honor. However, with Circle T on anything, the stamping has no appeal to me, even though I am not a collector. I once did covet a Circle T stamp on a putter and wanted to one day own one. However, I would rather save my $1,000 and buy a Byron Morgan DH89 putter than a 009. I feel that the Morgan DH89 is every bit as good as a 009, maybe better. Just my 2 cents.
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    EAMUS CATULI! AC020303
  • RobotDoctorRobotDoctor Senior Hacker ClubWRX  4953WRX Points: 869Posts: 4,953 ClubWRX
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    jefffann wrote on Jan 17 2009, 07:25 AM:
    Is this off point...wouldn't of $2000 been better spent on gold as an investment than a putter with circle t on it?




    Anyone thinking that a Circle T putter is an investment needs to reexamine their investment strategy. Yes, give me $2,000 of gold any day over any consumer bauble.
    Posted:
    EAMUS CATULI! AC020303
  • jefffannjefffann pablo Members  202WRX Points: 0Posts: 202
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    I guess when you collect ,whatever you collect,guns,putters,salt & pepper shakers you justify your addition with the badge of investing for the future. Face your addiction and admit you have one . This is coming from someone whose friends call him Mr. Addicto.There's always something new to collect but chances of anything being an investment are slim unless you find find someone crazier than you to sell to.
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  • nickpoznickpoz Members  946WRX Points: 1Posts: 946 ClubWRX
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    jick wrote on Jan 16 2009, 11:23 AM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 16 2009, 11:58 PM:
    While I rarely see eye to eye with Jick on his Cameron posts I do agree with him here. I think the Circle T has been severely watered down recently. I have only been collecting Camerons for a little over a year and just in that short period of time I have seem numerous "consumer" products come out with the once exclusive tour only stamp. The first was the ball marking tool, which is one of the only Cameron products where every tool has the Circle T logo. Another example is the recent bag-tags and divot repair tools where every item is a Circle T. Personally, I would have preferred if Scotty had kept the Circle T logo more of a rarity.




    Cameron is a persuasive marketing genius who has great shrewdness and cunning. I truly applaud you for being able to see that the Circle T brand has been watered down. Aside from featuring it in most of his production products, Cameron has been using less and less of it on the tour. Now he has moved into other stampings such as "Acushnet" (in script) or used "XPerimental" much more often now than before. The latest one he is working on is "Est.1962" as a slogan. Obviously, he is slowly moving away from the Circle T and looking for new stampings to replace it. But at the end of the day, Cameron is still the most brilliant marketing mind in puttermaking history - he is the only one who can charge a premium for a single stamp that isn't even a complicated logo or drawing.




    There are probably less than 5 putters out there that are handstamped Acushnet. Show me the XPerimental ones you are talking about. As far as the 62 slogan that has been out for more than 3 years, its not a new thing. There are still plenty of putters with the Circle T on them and there will be for a very long time. Maybe you see less of them because there are newer stamps out there. Can you show us "most of his production products" that feature the Circle T on it? I ask you that because I am looking at my 2009 Cameron catalog and cant find a single Circle T in there.
    Posted:
  • Scottyboy1220Scottyboy1220 Jr. Boomers  215WRX Points: 0Posts: 215
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    The Xperimental jick or whoever was referring too has been seen on the new Red X's with the scotty dog in tote as well. It has also been seen on the futura mallet and I even saw one with Xperimental under the 3 red dots on a Studio Select. So he is correct it is out there. It isn't commonly seen because it's exactly what it is.. Xperimental. My guess would be these are putters that are being tried by pros and such and if they decide they like it Scotty makes it and stamps it with the circle t. I couldn't agree more with jick and many other posters. It is on everything. At one point it was an item everyone coveted because of the fact not very many other people had them. Now its just out there. I would much rather spend my money on gold, a putting lesson (which would actually improve my game) or on other golf equipment in comparison to a Circle T.
    Posted:
  • RobotDoctorRobotDoctor Senior Hacker ClubWRX  4953WRX Points: 869Posts: 4,953 ClubWRX
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    nickpoz wrote on Jan 17 2009, 07:55 AM:
    jick wrote on Jan 16 2009, 11:23 AM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 16 2009, 11:58 PM:
    While I rarely see eye to eye with Jick on his Cameron posts I do agree with him here. I think the Circle T has been severely watered down recently. I have only been collecting Camerons for a little over a year and just in that short period of time I have seem numerous "consumer" products come out with the once exclusive tour only stamp. The first was the ball marking tool, which is one of the only Cameron products where every tool has the Circle T logo. Another example is the recent bag-tags and divot repair tools where every item is a Circle T. Personally, I would have preferred if Scotty had kept the Circle T logo more of a rarity.




    Cameron is a persuasive marketing genius who has great shrewdness and cunning. I truly applaud you for being able to see that the Circle T brand has been watered down. Aside from featuring it in most of his production products, Cameron has been using less and less of it on the tour. Now he has moved into other stampings such as "Acushnet" (in script) or used "XPerimental" much more often now than before. The latest one he is working on is "Est.1962" as a slogan. Obviously, he is slowly moving away from the Circle T and looking for new stampings to replace it. But at the end of the day, Cameron is still the most brilliant marketing mind in puttermaking history - he is the only one who can charge a premium for a single stamp that isn't even a complicated logo or drawing.




    There are probably less than 5 putters out there that are handstamped Acushnet. Show me the XPerimental ones you are talking about. As far as the 62 slogan that has been out for more than 3 years, its not a new thing. There are still plenty of putters with the Circle T on them and there will be for a very long time. Maybe you see less of them because there are newer stamps out there. Can you show us "most of his production products" that feature the Circle T on it? I ask you that because I am looking at my 2009 Cameron catalog and cant find a single Circle T in there.




    Come on Nick, we are not talking about the retail line through Acushnet. I believe when people are talking about "retail" they are talking about the putters being produced and found at any of the 4 Cameron distributors, other business sellers, or members of various IBBs (especially TCC). These sources will unveil a multitude of Circle T stamped putters. I am certain I could find one very close to my preference and purchase it within a couple of days. I don't believe people are casting the Circle T stamp in a bad light but in a common light. You have to admit that the Studio is pumping out "tour" putters like the FED is printing money (ok, maybe not that bad). All I know is when I joined TCC 2 1/2 years ago the Circle T stamp was not as common as it is today.
    Posted:
    EAMUS CATULI! AC020303
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