MACHINE Prototype Double Fatback and Boatback

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  • weaver93weaver93 Members  1038WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,038
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    Chris,



    For years I have carried and competed with custom 1911s, many melted like the prototype you have there so I can really appreciate the work involved. I think the end result looks like a softer version of a squareback. The transitions in the flange are more subtle while supplying the weight. What will the prices run? If you hand melt all of them I will have time to save for one while on the waiting list. image/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
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  • 8thehardway8thehardway Members  1906WRX Points: 69Handicap: 8Posts: 1,906 Platinum Tees
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    choeppner wrote on Oct 27 2008, 08:20 PM:
    8thehardway wrote on Oct 27 2008, 04:55 AM:
    Since Dave's Prototype lacks sufficient material at the proposed insertion point to hold the shaft,




    Hello,



    Can you please explain what you mean by this?



    Thanks



    -Chris






    hello, Chris



    The flange behind the cavity is too thin to consider inserting a shaft there - problems with weighting, balance and vibrations when striking the ball would be staggering.
    Posted:
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  • DB MACHINEDB MACHINE Sponsors  934WRX Points: 55Posts: 934 Golden Tee
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    Hi Everyone!



    It's been too long since I posted here! Chris has been doing such a great job, I almost forgot how to work all the controls. LOL! (to borrow an expression from Chris). LOL! image/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    Thanks for all the kind comments on the Prototype Double FatBack and BoatBack flanges. To clarify, these prototypes are designed as additional Custom options for the M2A Converter putters. These new Mallet Backs will be available in all the materials we offer in our existing line, plus Aerospace Alloy for standard length putters in traditional weight ranges (still allowing internal and external user-weight adjustment with alloy, steel or tungsten). These push my Converter concept forward with increased MOI and forgiveness in a traditional anser-style set up and aesthetic, and with all the benefits of our Converter line's modular fitting and extreme levels of user-adjustable Customization and Personalization options.



    Currently, I have three basic Mallet Back shapes that we are testing: The Double FatBack is mostly square, with slightly rounded bumpers; the BoatBack is slightly Pear-shaped, and more rounded at the back bumpers; and, the new SpeedBack, which is rounded all the way around. Right now I am custom grinding all these, to help us determine what players respond to best, and ultimately what the most popular grinds are. For instance, I have a SpeedBack that is symmetrical, and another that morphs the BoatBack's pear-shape...(with custom grinds to varying degrees of "pear").



    Attached are a few "sneak peek" photos of some of my ART Putters from my new Ball Game and End Game series. You may have seen the first prototype of the Ball Game, where we made a special fly cut tool the diameter of the Golf Ball - in that model we made a simple relief cut on the topline of a Converter, and then used the same tool to make staggered optic line cuts in the Tongue Flange, called the Wave Cut.



    In this new expansion of that concept, I used the tool to make relief cuts in the back flanges (with very fine tool marks), and also complicated matters significantly by dissecting the base Converter head into two sections: the face module and the new mid-section. This allows us to make a cut with the Ball tool into the cavity of the mid-section, so that we can achieve the same tool mark effects as on the other head components.



    The result of the End Game is a putter that completes a ball shape on multiple levels in a slight contrast with the rest of the putter. When you are lined up over the ball, and if the putter is aligned correctly, the ball shape "connects" and lines up perfectly, completing the ball shape. If you put a line on the ball, a line through the End Game ball provides a unique alignment system, the first ever in a milled anser-style putter. As you can see from the photos, you can choose varying Back flanges to suit your style.



    These are just two versions from many prototypes from these Ball Game and End Game ART Series. Its gets a little crazy frankly! image/crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':crazy:' /> But, as usual, I will make a range of designs available, from very traditional and minimal, to very wild, so you can choose what best suits your eye or your fancy. Chris and I will post a few more prior to launch of these models for '09. The most popular mallet flanges will be added to the line for Spring '09.



    I hope you like these new prototypes, and am eager to hear what you think. Thanks for all of your support and kind comments about our work so far, and especially all of our great customers in the 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0 Releases. And a special shout out to Chris, for all his terrific work!



    Best,



    -Dave



    Posted:
  • herd8497herd8497 Members  386WRX Points: 0Posts: 386
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    Mr. Billings,



    Thanks for taking the time to post. Your offerings look amazing. I'm excited to see what your 09 spring lineup will include.



    Congrats on being such an innovator too!
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  • slammerslammer Members  117WRX Points: 0Posts: 117
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    I just put a order in for a M2A converter fat back. These putters look absolutely fantastic.
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  • herd8497herd8497 Members  386WRX Points: 0Posts: 386
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    slammer wrote on Oct 28 2008, 09:16 PM:
    I just put a order in for a M2A converter fat back. These putters look absolutely fantastic.






    Mine should be in my hands next week. image/partytime2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':partytime2:' />
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  • choeppnerchoeppner Blue Ridge, GACharter Members  10364WRX Points: 103Posts: 10,364 Titanium Tees
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    herd8497 wrote on Oct 28 2008, 10:02 PM:
    slammer wrote on Oct 28 2008, 09:16 PM:
    I just put a order in for a M2A converter fat back. These putters look absolutely fantastic.






    Mine should be in my hands next week. image/partytime2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':partytime2:' />




    You're going to have your's in hand Tuesday image/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I PM'd you your tracking info image/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    Thanks



    -Chris
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  • DeerslayerDeerslayer Shoot to Thrill, Play to Kill...... Members  1838WRX Points: 128Posts: 1,838 Platinum Tees
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    That is an awesome design! I would like some more info on that putter. I am definitely interested.
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  • EmmEmm Members  362WRX Points: 67Posts: 362 Greens
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    The last putter pic looks much more pleasing to the eye now compared to the more square version you guys posted earlier.



    Very nice putter image/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> !
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  • sergizmosergizmo Members  2763WRX Points: 156Posts: 2,763 Titanium Tees
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    Wow, great stuff from Machine putters! I loooooove those smooth consistent surface finishes. Someone really knows their speeds, feeds, chip loads and tool geometry. image/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
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  • jickjick Members  1151WRX Points: 223Posts: 1,151 Platinum Tees
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    Great putters as always.



    If I have one minor quibble, I would recommend against calling these putters as "Fatback" or "Boatback" as it would make it seem "inspired" by Cameron's Fastback and Squareback releases.



    I am sure these putters have been in the pipeline even before Cameron thought about releasing his new Studio Select models, but this Machine releases with the name makes it seem otherwise.



    Lux Putters also had a Fatback Surfside and a Fastback Yaupon.



    It will all add to the confusion and make it seem like everyone was inspired by Cameron.



    Just a friendly suggestion.
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  • DB MACHINEDB MACHINE Sponsors  934WRX Points: 55Posts: 934 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Nov 7, 2008 #43
    Hi Everyone!



    Thanks for all the very kind words on our newest work.



    Thanks also to Jick for your comments regarding the model names I created for our flanges. Perhaps with a little more explanation, you may at least get a better understanding for the method behind my madness, if not the end result.



    I have always tried to be very open about the things that inspire me, and try to give credit where credit is due, perhaps more so than many of my peers. See the following link on our website, for instance: http://www.doglegright.com/letter.html. I also made several posts about this process and my thoughts on it in other threads this site, some going back to several years ago....



    I have been designing variations to my favorite putters for many years, always trying to create a combination of "something new, something old" - a design philosophy that strives to make the product appeal to traditional tastes, while pushing the art and performance envelope forward, hopefully providing new creations with new features and benefits as a result.



    And in fact, I have been designing, developing and prototyping the modular, multi-piece designs of the MACHINE Converter series for more than six years. Numerous pros, industry folks, friends and players have seen many of these designs as we developed and refined them, and can attest that I have been working on these concepts, technologies and designs (including the FatBack and Boat Back) for years before some of the other designs you mentioned hit the marketplace. When our next patents issue and publish, you can check the filing dates and the record of invention. image/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    As many of my friends also know, I always try to have fun with my designs and with their model names. I name my putters and their modular components in a similar manner as I used to with my sculptures: imbued with multiple meaning and "double entendre" whenever possible. This makes the putters even more fun for me, my friends and I think those who game or collect them. I found that if I put something very personal into the name, the parts would take on even more meaning for me while I work on them, inspiring and motivating me even more (if that is possible). They also add a little more character, in a game that may have lost some of that recently with millions and millions of cookie-cutter clubs and putters being made overseas these days, and sold straight off the rack.



    FYI, the name FatBack is a morph of several names, and in part originates from my earlier work on our totally oversized HOG putters. You see, when we were prototyping the HOG, I actually used the term "Fat Shaft" as a working name, before arriving at the name HOG for the new brand. The Fat Shaft name was abandoned, but a year later, Wilson used it as a model name for their FatShaft irons. I always lamented not doing something formal with the TM while we were first, and had a chance. So, when I designed the first "doublewide" modular flange for the Converter series years ago, bringing back the "Fat" name seemed like a natural.



    Of course there is a tip of the hat to others who are working in this genre of varying “back” shapes (not just Scotty, by the way). I like referencing the competitive inspiration, and then layering on more personal meaning by adding something that draws from my very best memories. FatBack was one of the key ingredients (and first in the pan) that my dad used to make his "world famous" clam chowder every summer. So, when John Scharon just posted his review of the Custom FatBack we made for him, ( http://www.golfwrx.com/BagChatter/2008/11/...-putter-review/ ) I just had to smile and laugh out loud, and think that my dad is no doubt also smiling from above.



    Likewise, the pear shape of the Boat Back reminds me of my favorite little dingy my brother and I used to fish in as kids, and also of the “Boat tail” car design prints that my dad collected from the 30's. When I post photos of the new SpeedBack, I will share some of the other inspiration that inspired me for that design. Like Scotty, I do like to draw design inspiration from many sources, including what other designers are doing, also outside of golf, especially cutting edge, and iconic designs, and especially when also combined with things that have helped shape my life and my work. Unlike some others, I always try to add my twists to modify and improve if possible, not just make another copy. I hope you can see that in my work.



    Another example of this would be our The South Beach Cut technology. Of course their is a tip of the hat to the Newport “Beach” models. Most will also immediately think of the famous diet with a similar name. And we do remove weight from the center of the putter in order to expand the MOI and forgiveness, (approximately five times the amount from the other style Beach Cut, and without the dramatic change in sound). We can even tune the sound, if customers want. And finally, for me, the name really refers to the beach my family used to go to when I was a kid. The local community all got together in the summer to make cuts in the dunes between the inland ponds and the ocean. The best fishing of the year resulted as the saltwater fish waited for the pond fish to run out. So, in the end, we have something that sprang from multiple sources, and I think is entirely new, and beneficial, with a special meaning for me and my friends and customers.



    If you get the chance, please compare some of these competitive putters side by side. You will notice that our Converters are quite unique, being both deep, and wide, providing an increased MOI with a traditional anser-style shape and weight range, achieved by the hidden "South Beach Cut" technology. (while some of the competitors are very short heel to toe). In doing so, I hope you appreciate that while I draw inspiration from many sources, we are in fact creating something entirely new, and also beneficial.



    Sorry for the long post, but I am very passionate about these issues, and do appreciate the opportunity to tell my side of the story.



    All the best,



    -Dave



    PS: Chris from Lux putters agreed that we were first with the FatBack, and kindly agreed to stop using our name and mark (those posts of theirs were then edited as a result). -DB




    jick wrote on Nov 1 2008, 07:37 AM:
    Great putters as always.



    If I have one minor quibble, I would recommend against calling these putters as "Fatback" or "Boatback" as it would make it seem "inspired" by Cameron's Fastback and Squareback releases.



    I am sure these putters have been in the pipeline even before Cameron thought about releasing his new Studio Select models, but this Machine releases with the name makes it seem otherwise.



    Lux Putters also had a Fatback Surfside and a Fastback Yaupon.



    It will all add to the confusion and make it seem like everyone was inspired by Cameron.



    Just a friendly suggestion.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • danbailey24danbailey24 Members  162WRX Points: 55Posts: 162 Fairways
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    I would love to see that fatback design, with a plumber's neck, in a 48" long version, that weighs 500g! if you can make that work, you'll have a new customer...TODAY!
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  • DB MACHINEDB MACHINE Sponsors  934WRX Points: 55Posts: 934 Golden Tee
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    danbailey24 wrote on Jan 24 2009, 09:09 PM:
    I would love to see that fatback design, with a plumber's neck, in a 48" long version, that weighs 500g! if you can make that work, you'll have a new customer...TODAY!




    Hi Dan,



    Thanks for the post! Yes, we can meet those specs. There are several material options, with Billet Copper, Stainless, Carbon Steel or Aluminum Bronze. All but the Copper require extra tungsten to get up to your weight. With most you can also have user-weight adjustability as well. I can get you precise options from the shop tomorrow. Feel free to PM Chris or myself if you need more specifics. I am sure Chris will be back online shortly (he lives here!). LOL! (as Chris would say). image/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    Thanks again for your interest.



    -Dave
    Posted:
  • choeppnerchoeppner Blue Ridge, GACharter Members  10364WRX Points: 103Posts: 10,364 Titanium Tees
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    You caught me getting some Ice Cream. LOL



    Dan,



    You have a PM coming your way image/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    -Chris
    Posted:
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