The Best Player Who's Been Forgotten....

[widow-maker]

Maddie relaying the Pete Brown story reminds me of one that involved former PGA Champion Walter Burkemo.

 

In 1972, Walter sponsored Chuck Thorpe, older brother of Jim Thorpe, on the PGA Tour. In September of 1971, Walter had Chuck come out to Detroit Golf Club, where Walter was the head pro, to work on his game. At the time, to say that the DGC was segregated would have been an understatement. With a membership over 900, there were no black members, no black employees... not even any black caddies. The course is located in the City of Detroit with heavy black population to the immediate South and East of the course. Didn't matter. No blacks allowed, members not allowed to even bring them as guests (not written but understood).

 

I was working as the starter there at the time, but also helping out the Caddie Master where needed. It was about 10:30 in the morning(no need for a starter at that time), so I was up by the Caddie Shack when Chuck showed up and Walter wasn't there yet. We set Chuck up at the range and he proceeded to hit balls. There were quite a few members who were upset about it and let Walter know when he showed up. I can remember Walter telling them that per his contract, the range was his and he could have who he wanted out there(Walter said some more colorful things to myself and the Caddie Master and he was running pretty hot about all of it). He tried to explain that he was considering sponsorship and wanted to see the kid hit some balls. Walter worked with Chuck for a couple of hours on the range and it was a bit unbelievable what I heard come out of the mouths of some of those members. It was embarrassing, but I always respected Walter for standing up to them.

 

A couple of months later Walter was let go, and replaced by George Bayer the following year. You can't convince me otherwise that he was let go because he brought a black man out and had the audacity to let him hit balls on the club range. The world has come a long ways since then, but the struggles for black players to get on Tour in the 50's, 60's, and 70's are not overstated.

[mikpga]

_{What's his name? Dag gone it, I can't quite remember...}

[nikegal]

Maddie relaying the Pete Brown story reminds me of one that involved former PGA Champion Walter Burkemo.

 

In 1972, Walter sponsored Chuck Thorpe, older brother of Jim Thorpe, on the PGA Tour. In September of 1971, Walter had Chuck come out to Detroit Golf Club, where Walter was the head pro, to work on his game. At the time, to say that the DGC was segregated would have been an understatement. With a membership over 900, there were no black members, no black employees... not even any black caddies. The course is located in the City of Detroit with heavy black population to the immediate South and East of the course. Didn't matter. No blacks allowed, members not allowed to even bring them as guests (not written but understood).

 

I was working as the starter there at the time, but also helping out the Caddie Master where needed. It was about 10:30 in the morning(no need for a starter at that time), so I was up by the Caddie Shack when Chuck showed up and Walter wasn't there yet. We set Chuck up at the range and he proceeded to hit balls. There were quite a few members who were upset about it and let Walter know when he showed up. I can remember Walter telling them that per his contract, the range was his and he could have who he wanted out there(Walter said some more colorful things to myself and the Caddie Master and he was running pretty hot about all of it). He tried to explain that he was considering sponsorship and wanted to see the kid hit some balls. Walter worked with Chuck for a couple of hours on the range and it was a bit unbelievable what I heard come out of the mouths of some of those members. It was embarrassing, but I always respected Walter for standing up to them.

 

A couple of months later Walter was let go, and replaced by George Bayer the following year. You can't convince me otherwise that he was let go because he brought a black man out and had the audacity to let him hit balls on the club range. The world has come a long ways since then, but the struggles for black players to get on Tour in the 50's, 60's, and 70's are not overstated.

This story doesn't have to do with Mr. Mangrum but it does indirectly involve Sam and Pete and go to your statement that racism was alive and well in the 1970's. Richard's grandmother, who he's spoken of before, was a five-time state woman's amateur champion and it was either the 1972 or 1973 amateur and she was playing the third round and she had a 5 stroke lead. As Richard has also mentioned, her second husband(her first, and his mother's father died from a massive heart attack at 37 years old), his step grandfather and the most influential male figure in his life through his first 14 years was a black man. He did not golf but he would go to her tournaments and bring Richard and they would walk with her. They were at a club that ironically his grandmother had won her first title, but she had not remarried and so was not with her present husband. Long story short, he had to go to the bathroom, had Richard wait in front of the club house and walked up the front steps where a sheriff was sitting in a chair off to the side and he stood, moved in front of Richard's grandfather and asked him if he was lost. He said no that he was looking for the "Mens'" room and the sheriff laughed derisively and said the Men's room was inside but for him he could "go find a tree." Richard's grandfather was 6'5", about 250-260 pounds but he was a gentleman and was not going to cause a scene with Richard standing approximately 20' away(he was talking to a friend that they brought with them and was unaware of this incident), he turned, went and got Richard and went out on the course to follow his wife and Richard's grandmother.

 

She completed her round with a five stroke lead going into the final round and was informed of what had occurred while she was on the course. She showed up at the club the next morning and located a local reporter who was there to cover the touurnamemt, told him what had occurred, informed him and then the state organization that she was withdrawing and why, and immediately left the grounds. This was a prominent club in the state and hosted many USGA Tourneys, qualifiers and Pro events including the State Open, which Sam and Pete Played in annually along with Sam doing an annual one day event where he gave a clinic along with Playing a round with members in an 18 hole event. Though an apology letter was sent to Richard's grandmother(not his grandfather), his grandmother, who had been given an honorary membership, which she would drop and she, Sam and Pete would never step foot on the grounds again. Richard had the opportunity to Play at this club as an adult as a relative of his(his mother's cousin) was a state senator(later governor and current US Senator) and this was a campaign event and he had Pete with him and Richard won the amateur side of the event(and placed 3rd in the open side) and his "uncle" gave him the mike, hahaha. Pete said that Richard made a very eloquent statement about the event years before and the fact that this was a campaign event and there were over 100 men present, and not a single black man, as Richard was sure that blacks had voted for his "uncle," and he laughed to break the ice, lol, but Pete said that you could hear a pin drop and Richard's uncle was white as a ghost and very uneasy when he took the mike back, lolol. Though Pete never told Richard, he was very proud of him, more so for his comments that day than his Play. As Pete always said, this game is only as good as the people that run it and Play it. No better, no worse. Have a nice weekend guys :) Madison

[Forged4ever]

It's not like bigotry went out in the 60's & 70's as I got black balled in 1986 at Fox Chapel GC as a "shoo in" with my first liner a USGA Executive Committee Officer and 2-time past club prez and my second line was a renowned surgeon cuz it came out that I was catholic and I had an incident happen in 1998 at the athletic club that I belonged to in Pittsburgh called the Pittsburgh Athletic Association, which while a stand alone private club, had reciprocity with other athletic clubs in all of the major cities(Chicago Athletic Club, Officers Club(Washington DC), Harvard Club, etc.) and I had a former college teammate who was in town meet me there for dinner. We had suit jackets on when we are upstairs in the main dining room per club rules though we went down stairs for some pops and to watch the football game on the big screen in the down stairs bar, which was casual so we took our jackets off and were talkin to some other guys who were down there also.

 

So when my Bud takes off his jacket and rolled up the sleeves of his dress shirt, he has some ink on his forearm. One of the guys we're talking to see his "BIBO" and asks if that's a nickname and my Bud said no, it stood for "Blood In Blood Out." Another guy asked "out of what?" I stepped in and said "it's irrelevant to you, forget it." KS is more than capable to speak for himself though as my guest, I felt it was my resposonaibity to shut this guy down.

 

So a few weeks later I get a letter basically telling me that as a private club there were standards and policies that had been in place for decades and that I should remember that when bringing a guest to the club. Bear in mind that my Bud Played 5 years in the NFL, was at that time employed by his former team, the Jets as an Asst. Coach, along with being a print model for RL(which is to this day) and was dressed appropriately(In a navy suit costing twice what mine cost and mine was more than the average suit spends on one, lmao) and he conducted and conducts himself as a Gentleman at all times and ironically had reciprocity at my club as he was a member of the New York Athletic Club, and Maddie loves him and she's Leary of most of my former teammates that's she's met, LMAO

 

He realized a long time ago that he jumps to a different bar than I or most of you have to clear.

 

I submitted my resignation letter the next day and went across the street and joined the University Club, which while smaller, had the same reciprocity nation wide(that's the biggest perk cuz you can call, get a beautiful old style room with big screen, cable, a working gas fireplace in the middle of LA, Michigan Avenue or Manhattan for $190-210/night). Oh yea, they had black members.

 

I'm obviously a tad touchier about this than the average white guy cuz of my upbringing though I would have more respect for an individual who came out and said, "yea, I would have voted against you because I don't want Catholics in this club(I pulled my name prior so my sponsors didn't get their names posted publicly for the required 30 days in the club lobby, though my first liner wanted me to keep my name up and make them vote however their club has a private, 1 vote in the hat versus our club, which I pushed through in my tenure as president where it is a hand vote so we see who votes what. I friggin hate anonymity, lol. You don't have the balls to stand behind your vote of this magnitude, then you deal with it)" or a guy coming out and saying "I don't like blacks." I've had that happen and I didn't take the heat, try to change their mind or start a fight. I excused myself from the encounter as quickly and quietly as possible and went on with my day. I respect honesty, whether I agree with you or not, just as their are blacks who just don't like whites and I treat them the same. I just can't handle passive lil bois who try to impact and influence others anonymously. Not if I can prevent it, lol.

 

Loyd, Sam and Pete, while they too didn't wear their feelings on their sleeves, were much the same in that they treated each man as they encountered him, regardless of race.

 

Hell, I was white, Pete loved me and it didn't matter cuz Sam never did forgive me for dumping his bag in that creek and busting those two Penna drivers, lmao. He could be a baby about certain things, lol

 

Stay well My Friends??

 

My Best,

RP

[i*windows]

what's his name...you know that guy who won that tournament a few years back...

[Scooterboy59]

In this modern era, Greg Norman. No one ever talks about him except, Australians.

[Forged4ever]

In this modern era, Greg Norman. No one ever talks about him except, Australians.

Well, them and Greg :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳

RP

[jonsnow]

It's not like bigotry went out in the 60's & 70's as I got black balled in 1986 at Fox Chapel GC as a "shoo in" with my first liner a USGA Executive Committee Officer and 2-time past club prez and my second line was a renowned surgeon cuz it came out that I was catholic and I had an incident happen in 1998 at the athletic club that I belonged to in Pittsburgh called the Pittsburgh Athletic Association, which while a stand alone private club, had reciprocity with other athletic clubs in all of the major cities(Chicago Athletic Club, Officers Club(Washington DC), Harvard Club, etc.) and I had a former college teammate who was in town meet me there for dinner. We had suit jackets on when we are upstairs in the main dining room per club rules though we went down stairs for some pops and to watch the football game on the big screen in the down stairs bar, which was casual so we took our jackets off and were talkin to some other guys who were down there also.

 

So when my Bud takes off his jacket and rolled up the sleeves of his dress shirt, he has some ink on his forearm. One of the guys we're talking to see his "BIBO" and asks if that's a nickname and my Bud said no, it stood for "Blood In Blood Out." Another guy asked "out of what?" I stepped in and said "it's irrelevant to you, forget it." KS is more than capable to speak for himself though as my guest, I felt it was my resposonaibity to shut this guy down.

 

So a few weeks later I get a letter basically telling me that as a private club there were standards and policies that had been in place for decades and that I should remember that when bringing a guest to the club. Bear in mind that my Bud Played 5 years in the NFL, was at that time employed by his former team, the Jets as an Asst. Coach, along with being a print model for RL(which is to this day) and was dressed appropriately(In a navy suit costing twice what mine cost and mine was more than the average suit spends on one, lmao) and he conducted and conducts himself as a Gentleman at all times and ironically had reciprocity at my club as he was a member of the New York Athletic Club, and Maddie loves him and she's Leary of most of my former teammates that's she's met, LMAO

 

He realized a long time ago that he jumps to a different bar than I or most of you have to clear.

 

I submitted my resignation letter the next day and went across the street and joined the University Club, which while smaller, had the same reciprocity nation wide(that's the biggest perk cuz you can call, get a beautiful old style room with big screen, cable, a working gas fireplace in the middle of LA, Michigan Avenue or Manhattan for $190-210/night). Oh yea, they had black members.

 

I'm obviously a tad touchier about this than the average white guy cuz of my upbringing though I would have more respect for an individual who came out and said, "yea, I would have voted against you because I don't want Catholics in this club(I pulled my name prior so my sponsors didn't get their names posted publicly for the required 30 days in the club lobby, though my first liner wanted me to keep my name up and make them vote however their club has a private, 1 vote in the hat versus our club, which I pushed through in my tenure as president where it is a hand vote so we see who votes what. I friggin hate anonymity, lol. You don't have the balls to stand behind your vote of this magnitude, then you deal with it)" or a guy coming out and saying "I don't like blacks." I've had that happen and I didn't take the heat, try to change their mind or start a fight. I excused myself from the encounter as quickly and quietly as possible and went on with my day. I respect honesty, whether I agree with you or not, just as their are blacks who just don't like whites and I treat them the same. I just can't handle passive lil bois who try to impact and influence others anonymously. Not if I can prevent it, lol.

 

Loyd, Sam and Pete, while they too didn't wear their feelings on their sleeves, were much the same in that they treated each man as they encountered him, regardless of race.

 

Hell, I was white, Pete loved me and it didn't matter cuz Sam never did forgive me for dumping his bag in that creek and busting those two Penna drivers, lmao. He could be a baby about certain things, lol

 

Stay well My Friends

 

My Best,

RP

 

I really wish you would write a book & compile all these stories in one place, Richard. You are living what has to be one of the most interesting lives I have ever heard of.

[vman]

Ralph Guldahl's fire burned bright for a short period of time in the late 30's, with 3 Majors, he was then commissioned to write an instructional book and, well, once he started thinking too deeply about what it was he was doing to be so successfull, "POOOF" it was gone.

[John L.]

Jimmy Demaret is another one. He brought a lot of fun inside the ropes every day that he played.

[wfwp]

Thank you for the insight into Mr. Mangrum.

[Forged4ever]

Thank you for the insight into Mr. Mangrum.

My Pleasure :)

 

Thank you for taking the time to read it as my ramblings tend to turn into endless Odysseys in the blink of an eye?

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

Richard

[Hawkeye77]

Watching the Farmers I've already forgotten Justin Thomas! What have you done lately?

[wfwp]

Watching the Farmers I've already forgotten Justin Thomas! What have you done lately?

 

I feel over dramatization of events in today's world often devalues achievements of the past (near and distant).

 

Thank you for the insight into Mr. Mangrum.

My Pleasure :)

 

Thank you for taking the time to read it as my ramblings tend to turn into endless Odysseys in the blink of an eye

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

Richard

 

Your stories are great as they bring to life the complexity of the people and their depth of character.

[PGArox]

It's not like bigotry went out in the 60's & 70's as I got black balled in 1986 at Fox Chapel GC as a "shoo in" with my first liner a USGA Executive Committee Officer and 2-time past club prez and my second line was a renowned surgeon cuz it came out that I was catholic and I had an incident happen in 1998 at the athletic club that I belonged to in Pittsburgh called the Pittsburgh Athletic Association, which while a stand alone private club, had reciprocity with other athletic clubs in all of the major cities(Chicago Athletic Club, Officers Club(Washington DC), Harvard Club, etc.) and I had a former college teammate who was in town meet me there for dinner. We had suit jackets on when we are upstairs in the main dining room per club rules though we went down stairs for some pops and to watch the football game on the big screen in the down stairs bar, which was casual so we took our jackets off and were talkin to some other guys who were down there also.

 

So when my Bud takes off his jacket and rolled up the sleeves of his dress shirt, he has some ink on his forearm. One of the guys we're talking to see his "BIBO" and asks if that's a nickname and my Bud said no, it stood for "Blood In Blood Out." Another guy asked "out of what?" I stepped in and said "it's irrelevant to you, forget it." KS is more than capable to speak for himself though as my guest, I felt it was my resposonaibity to shut this guy down.

 

So a few weeks later I get a letter basically telling me that as a private club there were standards and policies that had been in place for decades and that I should remember that when bringing a guest to the club. Bear in mind that my Bud Played 5 years in the NFL, was at that time employed by his former team, the Jets as an Asst. Coach, along with being a print model for RL(which is to this day) and was dressed appropriately(In a navy suit costing twice what mine cost and mine was more than the average suit spends on one, lmao) and he conducted and conducts himself as a Gentleman at all times and ironically had reciprocity at my club as he was a member of the New York Athletic Club, and Maddie loves him and she's Leary of most of my former teammates that's she's met, LMAO

 

He realized a long time ago that he jumps to a different bar than I or most of you have to clear.

 

I submitted my resignation letter the next day and went across the street and joined the University Club, which while smaller, had the same reciprocity nation wide(that's the biggest perk cuz you can call, get a beautiful old style room with big screen, cable, a working gas fireplace in the middle of LA, Michigan Avenue or Manhattan for $190-210/night). Oh yea, they had black members.

 

I'm obviously a tad touchier about this than the average white guy cuz of my upbringing though I would have more respect for an individual who came out and said, "yea, I would have voted against you because I don't want Catholics in this club(I pulled my name prior so my sponsors didn't get their names posted publicly for the required 30 days in the club lobby, though my first liner wanted me to keep my name up and make them vote however their club has a private, 1 vote in the hat versus our club, which I pushed through in my tenure as president where it is a hand vote so we see who votes what. I friggin hate anonymity, lol. You don't have the balls to stand behind your vote of this magnitude, then you deal with it)" or a guy coming out and saying "I don't like blacks." I've had that happen and I didn't take the heat, try to change their mind or start a fight. I excused myself from the encounter as quickly and quietly as possible and went on with my day. I respect honesty, whether I agree with you or not, just as their are blacks who just don't like whites and I treat them the same. I just can't handle passive lil bois who try to impact and influence others anonymously. Not if I can prevent it, lol.

 

Loyd, Sam and Pete, while they too didn't wear their feelings on their sleeves, were much the same in that they treated each man as they encountered him, regardless of race.

 

Hell, I was white, Pete loved me and it didn't matter cuz Sam never did forgive me for dumping his bag in that creek and busting those two Penna drivers, lmao. He could be a baby about certain things, lol

 

Stay well My Friends����

 

My Best,

RP

 

I really wish you would write a book & compile all these stories in one place, Richard. You are living what has to be one of the most interesting lives I have ever heard of.

 

And he hasn't even mentioned his work with the CIA. :)

[ChillyDipper]

Here is a timely remembrance of Lloyd Mangrum, for your reading pleasure:

https://www.masters.com/en_US/news/articles/2020-11-11/2020-11-11_the_sergeant_who_was_masters_tough.html

 

[cardoustie]

Great read, love old tour stories from the 40’s and 50’s

[Strategery]

On 1/24/2017 at 1:47 PM, Forged4ever said:

It's not like bigotry went out in the 60's & 70's as I got black balled in 1986 at Fox Chapel GC as a "shoo in" with my first liner a USGA Executive Committee Officer and 2-time past club prez and my

tl;dr and stuff

[Forged4ever]

6 hours ago, Strategery said:

tl;dr and stuff

All of my stuff is "tl," 😂😂😂😂

 

Stay Well Brotha👊

RP

Edited November 12, 2020 by Forged4ever

[dbleag]

Doug Edgar, found dead in the street in the Atlanta, GA area, 8/8/1921 age 36.

 

"To Win and Die in DIxie". 

 

Harry Vardon said, "This is a man who will one day be the greatest of us all."

[Forged4ever]

On 11/12/2020 at 12:55 PM, dbleag said:

Doug Edgar, found dead in the street in the Atlanta, GA area, 8/8/1921 age 36.

 

"To Win and Die in DIxie". 

 

Harry Vardon said, "This is a man who will one day be the greatest of us all."

Yeppers, James Douglas Edgar was a Great Player however an even more esteemed Teacher, being credited with introducing the "modern" golf swing, ie., restricted hips, as Iconic HoFer Tommy Armour stated that Mr. Edgar was the finest Teacher that he ever had and the "Colonel" retained Mr. Edgar to Mentor & Instruct Bob Jones prior to his taking the world by storm.

 

Though he had recently come to the USA from the UK, he won three Tour events in the 1919-1920 seasons, one , The Canadian Open, twice, with the first win being by 16 strokes, which I believe is still a Tour record, along with an earlier French Open Vicory(1914). His best Major result was a runner-up finish in the 1920 PGA Championship, to Jock Hutchison, when the format was MP.

 

The tragedy of his unsolved death was compounded(and written about in the Best selling book, "To Win And Die In Dixie") by the tragedy that he was buried in Atlanta, and not in his home town of Newcastle upon Tyne, England, where he had a wife and two children. 

 

Thanks for responding DB, great post👊

 

Have a Great Weekend🍻

RP

Edited November 14, 2020 by Forged4ever

[iBanesto]

Left field choice: Curtis Strange.

 

• 2 US Open wins
• 17 PGA Tour wins
• 3 time PGA Tour leading money winner
• 1988 PGA Player of Year
• 8 top 5 finishes in majors
• 5 Ryder Cups

Maybe not the most liked player around but his career is definitely underrated.

 

Also he wore Nike before it became a thing.

 

[Hawkeye77]

On 1/29/2017 at 7:05 AM, Hawkeye77 said:

Watching the Farmers I've already forgotten Justin Thomas! What have you done lately?

 

And three years later - leads the Masters!

[LifeStory]

Count yogi?

[Yuck]

Ky Laffoon?

[mocokid]

Julius boros won 2 us opens, one in the reign of hogan and one in playoff vs king arnold, plus a PGA. Usga basically staged the 52 open in Ben's backyard - Dallas,  gift wrapped for him.  He beat Arnie Mano a Mano in 63, at the height of AP's reign.  To do these 2 wins required a great game and a set of real.....