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Dont change the ball- just pull the driver


TomLikesGolf

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let the game evolve!

[b]Driver: [/b]Taylormade M1 2017 9.5, Project X HZRDUS 6.5
[b]Fairway:[/b] Ping I20 3 wood, Graphite Design ad-di x-flex
[b]Hybrid: [/b] Titleist 915h, Graphite Design ad-di x-flex
[b]Irons: [/b]4-pw Callaway X-forged 2013, kbs c-taper x-flex
[b]Wedges: [/b]52f, 56s, 60m Titleist vokey sm6, kbs c-taper x-flex
[b]Putter: [/b]Scotty Cameron Newport Select 2.5
[b]Ball: [/b]Titleist Pro-V1x

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Why not just make everyone play with only a seven iron?? Seriously though the whole concept is crazy. People act like there isn't skill involved in shooting -24 over four rounds. If it was so easy why don't all the tour players do it? This is like suggesting Bolt is too fast better tie some weights to him. At the end of the day they are still beating other players that have access to equal equipment, and proving that they were playing better that week. And in all walks of life people use technology to make things easier and better, I don't see why the same isn't true for golf. Not to mention it's not like there aren't rules regulating clubs and balls already.

The Bolt example is good. But not in the way you intended. Jesse Owens ran on a cinder track. How can you actually tell who is faster between the two? The playing field is actually different. This is what is happening in golf, the equipment has changed the playing field. One can no longer actually compare the greats of yesterday to greats of today. Clearly, many don't care...

In all fairness have you ever been able to compare eras? Jones to Old Tom? Hogan to Jones? Jack to Hagen? Now DJ to Jack? The equipment has changed dramatically over the years, many times.

The two eras that had it most difficult were probably the Nelson Hogan Snead and the Tiger Phil eras. Both experienced extreme change IN their respective era. First was hickory to steel and with the later they had to deal with changes to equipment, persimmon to metal, and the ball, balata to solid.

Other sports changed as well. It's not just golf.

Titleist TSR4 9° Tensei AV White 65

Titleist TSi3 strong 3w 13.5° Tensei AV White 70

Titleist TS3 19°  hybrid Tensei Blue/Titleist TSR3 24° Diamana Ahina

Titleist T150 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125

Vokey SM8 50° F & 56° M SM9 60°M

Cameron Newport w/ flow neck by Lamont/ Cameron Del Mar

 



 

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Why not just make everyone play with only a seven iron?? Seriously though the whole concept is crazy. People act like there isn't skill involved in shooting -24 over four rounds. If it was so easy why don't all the tour players do it? This is like suggesting Bolt is too fast better tie some weights to him. At the end of the day they are still beating other players that have access to equal equipment, and proving that they were playing better that week. And in all walks of life people use technology to make things easier and better, I don't see why the same isn't true for golf. Not to mention it's not like there aren't rules regulating clubs and balls already.

The Bolt example is good. But not in the way you intended. Jesse Owens ran on a cinder track. How can you actually tell who is faster between the two? The playing field is actually different. This is what is happening in golf, the equipment has changed the playing field. One can no longer actually compare the greats of yesterday to greats of today. Clearly, many don't care...

In all fairness have you ever been able to compare eras? Jones to Old Tom? Hogan to Jones? Jack to Hagen? Now DJ to Jack? The equipment has changed dramatically over the years, many times.

The two eras that had it most difficult were probably the Nelson Hogan Snead and the Tiger Phil eras. Both experienced extreme change IN their respective era. First was hickory to steel and with the later they had to deal with changes to equipment, persimmon to metal, and the ball, balata to solid.

Other sports changed as well. It's not just golf.

Then why keep the Masters at Augusta? Golf prides itself on tradition? Fake news...
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When it comes to the ball and generally the rules, I am in favour of bifurcation.

The pro's play such a different game than the average amateur, that it is senseless to play the by the same rules.

IMO, nothing would grow the game more than a wide open equipment specification for amateurs, including the ball; rule modifications such as divot relief, (and the hundred odd similar proposals) and keep the same rules as currently exist for the pros.

 

And here we get into the argument of advantage. The same argument exists when it comes to the pros, however it is discarded as talent. Adult amateurs over a 10 hdcp with 10 years of playing golf lack talent. (this is not a knock on them, it is simply a fact of life and physiology) The same cannot be said for children under 16.

So it gets complicated - so what? Anyone who has read the ROG in entirety can say the same thing.

 

Let me put it this way. Let's suppose the rule were modified so that the max club (14) was eliminated.

You show up for a match and the opponent has 20 clubs or more. Do you feel good about your game with your 14? I do, and bring him on, he will ultimately fail due to indecision with those clubs, as an average golfer.

 

Let the amateurs with the talent and desire learn to play by pro rules if they want to. If not, so what? They will be amateurs playing by rule book designed for them.

 

Probably not a popular opinion in this, however I do not give a rat's a** if anyone does not like it.

Callaway Epic Speed M10 Smoke
Taylor Made SIM 3W Titanium Diamana Limited
Taylor Made SIM 5W Titanium Diamana Limited
Taylor Made GAPR HI KBS 4,5,
HONMA TW747P 6-11 Vizard 85g
Cleveland 56* Smoke RTX Zipcore DG Spinner
Lajosi 808 Damascus, Callaway S2H2 Tuttle
Seed 01, Maxfli Tour

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Why not just make everyone play with only a seven iron?? Seriously though the whole concept is crazy. People act like there isn't skill involved in shooting -24 over four rounds. If it was so easy why don't all the tour players do it? This is like suggesting Bolt is too fast better tie some weights to him. At the end of the day they are still beating other players that have access to equal equipment, and proving that they were playing better that week. And in all walks of life people use technology to make things easier and better, I don't see why the same isn't true for golf. Not to mention it's not like there aren't rules regulating clubs and balls already.

The Bolt example is good. But not in the way you intended. Jesse Owens ran on a cinder track. How can you actually tell who is faster between the two? The playing field is actually different. This is what is happening in golf, the equipment has changed the playing field. One can no longer actually compare the greats of yesterday to greats of today. Clearly, many don't care...

In all fairness have you ever been able to compare eras? Jones to Old Tom? Hogan to Jones? Jack to Hagen? Now DJ to Jack? The equipment has changed dramatically over the years, many times.

The two eras that had it most difficult were probably the Nelson Hogan Snead and the Tiger Phil eras. Both experienced extreme change IN their respective era. First was hickory to steel and with the later they had to deal with changes to equipment, persimmon to metal, and the ball, balata to solid.

Other sports changed as well. It's not just golf.

Then why keep the Masters at Augusta? Golf prides itself on tradition? Fake news...

Not a valid comparison. It's not the same Augusta anyway.

And yes, it's been changed partially because of the equipment and partially agronomy. Do you want to bring back sheep to course maintenance?

Titleist TSR4 9° Tensei AV White 65

Titleist TSi3 strong 3w 13.5° Tensei AV White 70

Titleist TS3 19°  hybrid Tensei Blue/Titleist TSR3 24° Diamana Ahina

Titleist T150 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125

Vokey SM8 50° F & 56° M SM9 60°M

Cameron Newport w/ flow neck by Lamont/ Cameron Del Mar

 



 

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When it comes to the ball and generally the rules, I am in favour of bifurcation.

The pro's play such a different game than the average amateur, that it is senseless to play the by the same rules.

IMO, nothing would grow the game more than a wide open equipment specification for amateurs, including the ball; rule modifications such as divot relief, (and the hundred odd similar proposals) and keep the same rules as currently exist for the pros.

 

And here we get into the argument of advantage. The same argument exists when it comes to the pros, however it is discarded as talent. Adult amateurs over a 10 hdcp with 10 years of playing golf lack talent. (this is not a knock on them, it is simply a fact of life and physiology) The same cannot be said for children under 16.

So it gets complicated - so what? Anyone who has read the ROG in entirety can say the same thing.

 

Let me put it this way. Let's suppose the rule were modified so that the max club (14) was eliminated.

You show up for a match and the opponent has 20 clubs or more. Do you feel good about your game with your 14? I do, and bring him on, he will ultimately fail due to indecision with those clubs, as an average golfer.

 

Let the amateurs with the talent and desire learn to play by pro rules if they want to. If not, so what? They will be amateurs playing by rule book designed for them.

 

Probably not a popular opinion in this, however I do not give a rat's a** if anyone does not like it.

I'm all for bifurcation. Why it has not happened yet is a joke IMO. I guess my beef is this: Golf tries to make par matter, make par relevant, make par hard, but with the advances in equipment, old courses simply can't be played for par by the best golfers. Let advances happen, let players go 30 under par, great! But don't use tradition and history to make golf seem timeless unless there is resemblance in equipment for those chasing history...
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Stupid idea. It's the ball.

 

Why is it the ball? Is it the ball for all golfers regardless of handicap?

Put another way, if I don't keep score but love to play golf, don't care if I ever enter competition but love to play golf, can play to a single digit if I do keep a mental running tally of score and love the part about being on course with the social aspect of being with like minded people, how is a restricted length ball going to be a benefit to me? It won't, and I simply won't care if I use a conforming ball or not. Neither will the other like minded people loving the sport.

 

None of this is stupid, it is entirely pragmatic as a way to involve people in the sport who don't see the point of the restrictions currently imposed as being relevant to how they wish to participate. This in no way means that the etiquette appendix should be ignored.

 

If I had to go back to being the kind of player who is out there keeping score with every ROG in my mind for me and my fellow players I would probably quit. That scenario just is not a fun way to spend a day. And I say this primarily because in my experience:

A) Many amateurs are quite ignorant of the rules.

B) Many other amateurs choose to ignore rules either out of ignorance or purposefully, especially in competition.

C) Playing by the complete ROG with these people and pointing out all the infractions with the associated disputes and hurt feelings is not my idea of a good time.

 

The only thing stupid about the proposal is that the respective governing bodies can't see that a number of people have no interest in conforming to all the professional necessities.

Fortunately, amateurs who decide to approach golf the way I do can do so without interference from anyone.

A number of club professionals I have spoken with agree that this approach would benefit the game by attracting players.

Callaway Epic Speed M10 Smoke
Taylor Made SIM 3W Titanium Diamana Limited
Taylor Made SIM 5W Titanium Diamana Limited
Taylor Made GAPR HI KBS 4,5,
HONMA TW747P 6-11 Vizard 85g
Cleveland 56* Smoke RTX Zipcore DG Spinner
Lajosi 808 Damascus, Callaway S2H2 Tuttle
Seed 01, Maxfli Tour

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Stupid idea. It's the ball.

 

Why is it the ball? Is it the ball for all golfers regardless of handicap?

Put another way, if I don't keep score but love to play golf, don't care if I ever enter competition but love to play golf, can play to a single digit if I do keep a mental running tally of score and love the part about being on course with the social aspect of being with like minded people, how is a restricted length ball going to be a benefit to me? It won't, and I simply won't care if I use a conforming ball or not. Neither will the other like minded people loving the sport.

 

None of this is stupid, it is entirely pragmatic as a way to involve people in the sport who don't see the point of the restrictions currently imposed as being relevant to how they wish to participate. This in no way means that the etiquette appendix should be ignored.

 

If I had to go back to being the kind of player who is out there keeping score with every ROG in my mind for me and my fellow players I would probably quit. That scenario just is not a fun way to spend a day. And I say this primarily because in my experience:

A) Many amateurs are quite ignorant of the rules.

B) Many other amateurs choose to ignore rules either out of ignorance or purposefully, especially in competition.

C) Playing by the complete ROG with these people and pointing out all the infractions with the associated disputes and hurt feelings is not my idea of a good time.

 

The only thing stupid about the proposal is that the respective governing bodies can't see that a number of people have no interest in conforming to all the professional necessities.

Fortunately, amateurs who decide to approach golf the way I do can do so without interference from anyone.

A number of club professionals I have spoken with agree that this approach would benefit the game by attracting players.

 

I can't see the problem. You and like minded people can play golf how you want. Choose the rules you want to play to, make your own up, don't have any, it's your choice.

Play what ever equipment you want. Play non-conforming ball, non-conforming drivers, they are out there for you to purchase and use.

 

I know that there are groups of members at my club who do precisely this and nobody is remotely interested.......as long as they conform when playing in club competitions. The alternative is to give clubs comps a miss; I believe that many do.

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Why did the ball suddenly start going futher with the pro v1? The ball speed was the same as the old professional . The huge difference was SPIN . The older balls used to spin a lot more off the woods and long irons . When I first started playing nobody was really sure about what ballflight was best for distance . The low rising airplane flight was seen as cool . The high launch low spin didn't have the same appeal . Then people started clocking on to the fact that this ball flight went much futher . Greg normal picked up 20 yards learning how to get the ballflight instead of his old riser flight . The pro v1 instantly dropped rpm off the woods and long irons and gave everybody more distance

 

People are now swinging harder and harder , as distance is seen as high PRIORITY and a REQUIREMENT . Human beings will adapt to the situation. What we need to do is change the REQUIREMENT . Do you think everybody is going to be chasing yards if suddenly all the courses went to 6600 but very tight and requiring precision?

 

The modern tour venue is a joke , way too long, way too open . Shorten the courses, make them tighter and put real hazards off the fairways i.e. Real bunkers , real rough etc . People always go on about the length of courses costing more to maintain , well if every blade of grass wasn't manicured think of the sustainability here

 

Lengthening courses will just make the players who do well hit it futher

 

 

I do think that the ball needs to be changed to something that spins more , and drivers need reducing to sub 300cc and .77 COR

You have stated an obvious truth that is often lost in this argument; lengthening courses gives long hitters more of an advantage and a bigger incentive to hit it longer. Back in the old days they made the hole bigger because the great putters were running the tables. The result was the best putters were more dominant cause they made more putts that used to burn the edges. Royal Melbourne is considered one of the great courses in the world but it isn't overly long, and has hard and fast fairways so plays even shorter, but course set up means it remains relevant because every time a player pulls driver it brings risks into play. The design has specific landing areas that players need to hit to on each hole,but trying to hit past these areas means risk often outweighs reward. Sure these days some guys can reach these spots with hybrids and fw, but the course is still played how it was designed. I'm not against long hitters per se, but I do think bombing it over 300 should only be an advantage if you are also accurate.

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On the surface this may seem like a viable idea. But it gets extremely complicated.

 

Consider:

  • Some tour players don't hit the ball as far as others. Such a "rule" would penalize the shorter hitters while not adversely affecting the longer ones.
  • You would have to clearly define the loft, length, and all for what exactly a "driver" is. Otherwise some players would simply carry a 12 degree and call it their two wood.
  • Finally is the fact that the really long hitters can still pummel those older shorter courses with their FW woods. So pulling the driver out of their bag won't matter.

Once again, here we are having yet another discussion about the evils of distance. But distance is not new - I have said it on here many times. Watch some of the WWoG from the early 60's and those fellas were hitting the ball almost 300. With Persimmon and wound.

 

I just don't understand the fixation on here with limiting distances.

 

Instead of limiting distances, come up with a new rule that says that the pro isn't allowed to consume anything for 12 hours before they play. They will all be walking around in a weakened state and won't be able to hit it as far. And if they collapse they are DQd. Makes as much sense as pulling a driver and would be much easier to manage. Just test their blood glucose levels prior to teeing off and anyone who has a normal or elevated obviously ate something and isn't allowed to play.

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Stupid idea. It's the ball.

 

Why is it the ball? Is it the ball for all golfers regardless of handicap?

Put another way, if I don't keep score but love to play golf, don't care if I ever enter competition but love to play golf, can play to a single digit if I do keep a mental running tally of score and love the part about being on course with the social aspect of being with like minded people, how is a restricted length ball going to be a benefit to me? It won't, and I simply won't care if I use a conforming ball or not. Neither will the other like minded people loving the sport.

 

None of this is stupid, it is entirely pragmatic as a way to involve people in the sport who don't see the point of the restrictions currently imposed as being relevant to how they wish to participate. This in no way means that the etiquette appendix should be ignored.

 

If I had to go back to being the kind of player who is out there keeping score with every ROG in my mind for me and my fellow players I would probably quit. That scenario just is not a fun way to spend a day. And I say this primarily because in my experience:

A) Many amateurs are quite ignorant of the rules.

B) Many other amateurs choose to ignore rules either out of ignorance or purposefully, especially in competition.

C) Playing by the complete ROG with these people and pointing out all the infractions with the associated disputes and hurt feelings is not my idea of a good time.

 

The only thing stupid about the proposal is that the respective governing bodies can't see that a number of people have no interest in conforming to all the professional necessities.

Fortunately, amateurs who decide to approach golf the way I do can do so without interference from anyone.

A number of club professionals I have spoken with agree that this approach would benefit the game by attracting players.

 

I can't see the problem. You and like minded people can play golf how you want. Choose the rules you want to play to, make your own up, don't have any, it's your choice.

Play what ever equipment you want. Play non-conforming ball, non-conforming drivers, they are out there for you to purchase and use.

 

I know that there are groups of members at my club who do precisely this and nobody is remotely interested.......as long as they conform when playing in club competitions. The alternative is to give clubs comps a miss; I believe that many do.

 

It really isn't a problem to me. I do however play conforming equipment, and play by the ROG. That's just me. However, the point made I was dealing with is that the ball needs to be changed to limit distance. At the time that happens I will become a non-conforming player which I am reluctant to do.

Callaway Epic Speed M10 Smoke
Taylor Made SIM 3W Titanium Diamana Limited
Taylor Made SIM 5W Titanium Diamana Limited
Taylor Made GAPR HI KBS 4,5,
HONMA TW747P 6-11 Vizard 85g
Cleveland 56* Smoke RTX Zipcore DG Spinner
Lajosi 808 Damascus, Callaway S2H2 Tuttle
Seed 01, Maxfli Tour

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crazy talk. All you have to do is grow the rough and firm up the greens. Look at the 13' US Open at Merion. It played under 7000 yards and +1 won the tourney! Pros play on firm fairways with minimal rough and soft-ish greens. If they would soften up the fairways, grow the rough up and get the greens rock hard no one would be worried about ball distance.

Excatly!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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