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The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy


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The other main swing factor affecting the clubhead path and impact, is the degree of rightward tilt of your torso on the downswing.

 

Tilt subtracts from rotation is one key concept. The more you tilt, the more open you need to be with your chest by impact to offset the tendency of the rightward tilt to create too much in to out clubhead path. If you do not tilt enough, your path will tend to be out to in.

 

So if you for some reason you wanted to hit the biggest block imaginable, you would retard your chest rotation, add more right tilt than normal, and have more arm lag than normal. 30 degrees dead right would not be a surprise. The opposite for big Tug to the left.

 

A lot of the challenge in learning the craft of ballstriking is how to blend or sync up the chest rotation, right tilt, arm lag and forearm rotation so that you can be "on time" at impact. And of course the other big piece of the puzzle is the point in the downswing that you start to lose your wrist c0ck angle or the Release Trigger, and how fast that wrist angle opening happens in time.

 

 

Jim, this is a great post and for us eternal duffers/occasional OTT's, it really turns on a lightbulb. I have been OTT my whole life and, in an effort to not be OTT, half my swings are almost all tilt with no rotation until the ball is struck. I'm sure you've seen these types of swings where the shoulder barely works out at all and just "crashes" into the right side. Well, at least I'm not OTT, lol, or at least that is what my brain is telling me I guess.

 

I really liked the tilt subtracts from rotation and vice versa and how the golf swing is really a proper blending of tilt, chest rotation, arm lag, etc. Isn't that really what it comes down to in the sense that an athletic, coordinated person can look great after a year of golf and not so coordinated people spend their life trying to get it down? It sort of reminded me of this video where Tom Watson decided to play with more rotation and less tilt so he wasn't having to fight pushing it right on every shot:

 

 

 

Not really sure what my point or question is other than I thought the above was a great description of what happens and why the golf swing is so surprisingly complex. If I were to have a question, how does one work on synching up the correct amount of each of these factors? Or, is that like asking, how do I swing like a PGA player? Is there a particular drill that you use for this synching up and maybe experimenting with different amounts of tilt vs. rotation?

 

The "how do you do it" part is a great question. Starts with basic intellectual understanding of the concepts, which after some time will hopefully result in a Deep Insight about the truth of the concepts. Then mirror work to see yourself in slow motion do the pieces individually, then blended together. Getting the right shoulder to "track" down on it's own proper plane in the mirror is key - not too much down or out but a blend. Playing around with too much or too little of tilt, rotation and arm lag to see how that affects the clubhead path is another, all in slow mo in the mirror.

 

Half speed swings on the range are next with a ball, deliberately altering the path in the extremes of in to out and out to in, with a square to the path clubface so that you are not hitting a push or pull due to clubface angle.

 

For some Tilt Illusion is more powerful than the ASI and takes some study and contemplation to get the Deep Insight that enables one to see through the Illusion.

 

I have worked with several hundred golf school students who have told me some version of this: that "in 20 plus years of golfing, taking lessons, reading books on the golf swing and watching videos, I have never ever heard one instructor explain this Tilt Illusion concept. Finally now I understand how and why I always come over the top and have a way to fix it."

 

I get students who have come over the top to stop doing it within 30 minutes of working on the Tilt Illusion concept.

 

Covered in depth in my Module Four: Mechanics of the Pivot video.

 

And scores of advanced students who struggled with the opposite issue - too much right tilt and thus too much in to out path. Like Tom Watson.

 

Thanks Jim, really good stuff. As you probably know, Monty and other instructors also have things out there similar to Watson's video about shoulder not crashing into side. For those of us, who fight OTT, it seems crazy but, of course, the point is you still need an element of tilt or you will still be OTT, just like Watson was when he demonstrated in the video of how it "felt" like this. Well, for severe true OTTs, it is how they actually swing

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The other main swing factor affecting the clubhead path and impact, is the degree of rightward tilt of your torso on the downswing.

 

Tilt subtracts from rotation is one key concept. The more you tilt, the more open you need to be with your chest by impact to offset the tendency of the rightward tilt to create too much in to out clubhead path. If you do not tilt enough, your path will tend to be out to in.

 

So if you for some reason you wanted to hit the biggest block imaginable, you would retard your chest rotation, add more right tilt than normal, and have more arm lag than normal. 30 degrees dead right would not be a surprise. The opposite for big Tug to the left.

 

A lot of the challenge in learning the craft of ballstriking is how to blend or sync up the chest rotation, right tilt, arm lag and forearm rotation so that you can be "on time" at impact. And of course the other big piece of the puzzle is the point in the downswing that you start to lose your wrist c0ck angle or the Release Trigger, and how fast that wrist angle opening happens in time.

 

 

Jim, this is a great post and for us eternal duffers/occasional OTT's, it really turns on a lightbulb. I have been OTT my whole life and, in an effort to not be OTT, half my swings are almost all tilt with no rotation until the ball is struck. I'm sure you've seen these types of swings where the shoulder barely works out at all and just "crashes" into the right side. Well, at least I'm not OTT, lol, or at least that is what my brain is telling me I guess.

 

I really liked the tilt subtracts from rotation and vice versa and how the golf swing is really a proper blending of tilt, chest rotation, arm lag, etc. Isn't that really what it comes down to in the sense that an athletic, coordinated person can look great after a year of golf and not so coordinated people spend their life trying to get it down? It sort of reminded me of this video where Tom Watson decided to play with more rotation and less tilt so he wasn't having to fight pushing it right on every shot:

 

 

 

Not really sure what my point or question is other than I thought the above was a great description of what happens and why the golf swing is so surprisingly complex. If I were to have a question, how does one work on synching up the correct amount of each of these factors? Or, is that like asking, how do I swing like a PGA player? Is there a particular drill that you use for this synching up and maybe experimenting with different amounts of tilt vs. rotation?

 

The "how do you do it" part is a great question. Starts with basic intellectual understanding of the concepts, which after some time will hopefully result in a Deep Insight about the truth of the concepts. Then mirror work to see yourself in slow motion do the pieces individually, then blended together. Getting the right shoulder to "track" down on it's own proper plane in the mirror is key - not too much down or out but a blend. Playing around with too much or too little of tilt, rotation and arm lag to see how that affects the clubhead path is another, all in slow mo in the mirror.

 

Half speed swings on the range are next with a ball, deliberately altering the path in the extremes of in to out and out to in, with a square to the path clubface so that you are not hitting a push or pull due to clubface angle.

 

For some Tilt Illusion is more powerful than the ASI and takes some study and contemplation to get the Deep Insight that enables one to see through the Illusion.

 

I have worked with several hundred golf school students who have told me some version of this: that "in 20 plus years of golfing, taking lessons, reading books on the golf swing and watching videos, I have never ever heard one instructor explain this Tilt Illusion concept. Finally now I understand how and why I always come over the top and have a way to fix it."

 

I get students who have come over the top to stop doing it within 30 minutes of working on the Tilt Illusion concept.

 

Covered in depth in my Module Four: Mechanics of the Pivot video.

 

And scores of advanced students who struggled with the opposite issue - too much right tilt and thus too much in to out path. Like Tom Watson.

 

Thanks Jim, really good stuff. As you probably know, Monty and other instructors also have things out there similar to Watson's video about shoulder not crashing into side. For those of us, who fight OTT, it seems crazy but, of course, the point is you still need an element of tilt or you will still be OTT, just like Watson was when he demonstrated in the video of how it "felt" like this. Well, for severe true OTTs, it is how they actually swing

 

 

Good point. I think there is a huge gap between the top teachers's understanding of this issue and the average golfer. Why is OTT almost universal for mid to high handicaps?

 

1. general tendency to view/think of the swing in 2D.

 

2. ASI

 

3. not understanding the immense role of the Pivot in driving the arms forward in the forward swing, ie the base of the arms "Triangle" is the shoulder girdle, which is also the top of the Pivot and it's most important part (NOT the hips as so many on this forum apparently believe). When you tilt/rotate that s girdle, that motion moves the arms down, out and forward.

 

4. the Hit Impulse to create CH speed early.

 

5. not understanding that your hands and clubhead do NOT work "out" toward the ball in Transition or "north" but rather they move "east" first until the clubhead is about waist high, and only then does it switch from east to northwest.

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Jim,

 

Do I remember correctly that Module 4 was divided into Part A and Part B? Can you please tell us which part has the Tilt Illusion and approximately how many minutes in? Please consider this request as my official lobbying for a table of contents or section titles for future videos. Thank you.

 

Tilt Illusion specifically is about how the torso tilts to your left side on backswing and then right on forward swing, blended in with hip flexion/extension/flexion/extension cycle, blended in with rotation of hips, core and torso. How you maintain forward Spine Angle is another big part of this. So really the entire Module 4 is devoted to those topics. Last half of Part A and first half or so of Part B contains the bulk of it.

 

The Illusion itself is just that folks do not see the left side/right side tilt and they do not see the flexion/extension cycle.

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One of the toughest things to learn about the golf swing is the relationship between independent arm action in the horizontal dimension of the forward swing and the Pivot.

 

If you are struggling with poor Impact, could very well be that you are using your upper arm muscles to move the arms sideways across torso mid-line just before, during and impact, ie during the Release segment.

 

If you wonder why that can be so problematic, stand normally and extend your lead arm to chest height and parallel to the ground. Move your arm up and down, side to side, on a 45 degree angle to the ground, and then in a circle. That arm to shoulder joint has a tremendous amount of range of motion!

 

In golf, you are attempting to a hit a spot on the back of the golf ball the size of a dimple, using a spot on the center of the clubface the size of the tip of a pencil eraser, while the clubhead is moving 80-100 plus mph, over a huge arc from top of backswing to impact.

 

If you are using the upper arm/shoulder joint to guide or steer for solid impact and accurate shots, or propel that motion for CH speed and power - good luck!

 

SuperConnection of the upper arms during Release is only part of the Answer. You have to be actively engaging the Pivot to power the swing, ie to move the arms Triangle down, out and forward. Meaning your Pivot is primarily responsible for the eraser tip hitting the dimple on the golf ball, your Pivot is responsible for a huge chunk of your CH speed (Levers also play a role clearly but not upper arms levers after P6 when Release begins) and your Pivot is responsible for achieving an on plane clubshaft at impact and a good clubhead path, for accuracy.

 

What tends to happen, for average golfers especially, is that they do in fact use their upper arms to try to achieve those three goals, and end up massively stalling their Pivots in order to do that.

 

And learning to "do nothing" with your arms on the downswing (meaning arm muscles moving the arms in the horizontal dimension) will not work if you are not actively engaging your Pivot.

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JIm Waldron, you remind me a lot of Dave Pelz. Both are coming at it scientifically. I bet both would agree the hardest part is how to transmit this info to the golfer that doesn't know these things yet. I appreciate the effort, knowing that I'm the bottleneck in the transmission process.

 

Great insight there, D!

 

Most good teachers will tell you that clearing away dysfunctional/false mental pictures about the golf swing is one of the very first steps in the learning process. It is not a guarantee of success, since as a student, the golfer has to "own" the new mental picture at deeper level of his mind so that his body can begin to actually execute the motion. But is almost always a great place to start.

 

An arm-dominant swing, objectively speaking, will never get the job done. If you doubt this, spend an hour on a public driving range and just sit and watch all the mid to high handicap golfers slash away with their arms at the golf ball, with little pivot action. Ask them (I have!) what exactly they are trying to do with their body to create solid impact and good distance and they will always talk about "doing something" with their arms.

 

And I am not talking about the good striker at your club who "talks about his swing being all arms" but who in fact is using his Pivot to drive the motion mainly. It is vital when teaching or when discussing the golf swing theory to always clearly distinguish between subjective opinion/thought/feel and what is objectively happening. A rule which gets violated in a big way everyday on this forum!

 

Watch what they do, don't listen to what they say is a good starting point.

 

Go to a Tour event and get close up on the range and watch those guys and gals, and notice how much and how fast they coil/uncoil their bodies, and how there is no jerky, slashing motions with the arms.

 

If you put your attention/awareness on your arms from first person subjective feel, and ignore all the other stuff that is happening (body parts) in your swing motion, OF COURSE you are going to conclude that your good shots are mainly due to your "arm swing".

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Jim, thanks so much for this thread and your time posting. Your ASI is an eye-opener and I've been intrigued by it since I first came across your first teasing of it at John Erickson's site way back in 2011.

 

 

An arm-dominant swing, objectively speaking, will never get the job done. If you doubt this, spend an hour on a public driving range and just sit and watch all the mid to high handicap golfers slash away with their arms at the golf ball, with little pivot action.

 

I spend a lot of time at the range and I don't agree with this. I honestly see more of a mix between those who try to lash at the ball with their arms only with little pivot (usually hitting it fat) and those violently trying to use their pivot (usually topping). But only the PURE beginners are the arms slashers; the ones who looked like they haven't been playing more than 6 months and all upper body. I dragged my wife and 5yo son out to range once and it was BOTH their first natural instinct to how to hit the ball. You see this is other beginners who just took up the game.

 

Then you have the ones who have progressed from that complete noob stage. This is the majority at the range. They have maybe spent some time researching the swing, maybe had some lessons and now been playing the game over a year. These are the ones I now see with the "Tiger 1997" hip motion because they have now been told to rotate the hips for speed and body must pivot in good swing. Some I see (mostly experienced Asian women) REALLY jerk this movement in exaggerated way, contorting their body's like Michelle Wie. Problem is they are all over the place with; keeping posture, swing plane, steep/shallow, jerking handle, pulling it inside then out on down, hanging back. You name it. BUT hey, they have the pivot with the body controlled swing.

 

So your swing model falls into the body pivot camp. Load the levers/triangle at the top then that assembly is then just moved by rest of body and pivot.

 

1)Plane, swing and getting things aligned for precise powerful impact is literally controlled by the lower body pivot only? The "passive" arm assembly is just carried down and through. I understand no horizontal side/side motion but what about the V motion you've mentioned?

 

2)Where does more clubhead speed come from? By How fast you can move hips and torso? Some pro's look effortless in their body motion yet generate high club speed.

 

Go to a Tour event and get close up on the range and watch those guys and gals, and notice how much and how fast they coil/uncoil their bodies, and how there is no jerky, slashing motions with the arms.

 

 

Could also explain why lower back and hip injuries are almost a guarantee for pro golfers?

 

But one thing I will never forget is sitting at the driving range at 2012 Ryder Cup and in amazement in how DJ looked like he was hardly trying from a body speed uncoil yet was out driving even Bubba and Tiger. Rory on the other hand looks like he has tremendously super fast hips as did Sergio. (which is why I am actually surprised Sergio has never had back problems by now).

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B - sure lots of folks have poor Pivots as you suggest, but I think for the majority it is not because of them trying to achieve a "body controlled" swing.

 

I think members of this site way over-exagerrate how "educated" the average golfers is regarding swing theory. Even if they do read the occasional golf magazine, not too many will be thinking about that theory at the range. Most simply resort to instinct, and their instinct is to have a lousy pivot due to the default mental picture of an arm dominant swing. Sure, you are right that some will show a crappy Pivot motion because they have no idea how to blend the pivot with the arm and wrist motion, which is the really Big Deal in the golf swing.

 

I don't buy the common duality of a body v arms swing model. I think it is a false dichotomy based mainly on the fact that a lot of golf teachers historically show a lack of understanding of the really distinct difference between objective and subjective. All great players in the Big Picture sense, are using a swing that is mainly controlled by their Pivot. Their are differences, of course, but mostly in minor ways. And I am talking about objective reality, NOT what a particular pro golfer experiences in their subjective Bubble. Pivot driven swing does NOT mean the arms and wrists and other body parts don't make a contribution.

 

That does not mean that if you simply learn to Pivot correctly, you will have a good swing. You need precise independent of the Pivot arm motion, mainly on the backswing. Very little independent arm motion on a good forward swing. You need to train your wrists how to work properly, again, mainly on the backswing.

 

Your two questions. 1. your description about lower body pivot could not be further than the truth of my swing model. The entire Pivot is essential, and of the three main rotary parts - hips, core and upper torso/s girdle - the hips are the LEAST important. Most important is the shoulder girdle, which is the base of the Triangle, and when the base moves through space by tilting/rotating IT MOVES THE ARMS THROUGH SPACE. Which is something that very few golfers understand, mainly due to the ASI and other 2D Illusions. In my model, the main job of the "lower body" is to provide stability so that the core and shoulder girdle/torso can move rapidly through space, ie and thus move the arms Triangle.

 

2. CH speed comes from a variety of sources: starts with the fast motion of the 3 rotary segments of the Pivot, especially the shoulder girdle moving fast in RPM speed, and from a wide arc position at the Top; then energy transfers to the five Levers - the upper arms, right elbow angle, and two wrist c0ck angles; that Energy Wave has an amplification due to the kinetic chain dynamic.

 

3. Yeah, the swing is tough on your back and hips, especially as you get older. There will never be an "answer" to that dilemma, in my opinion, if you want to hit the ball a reasonable distance. It is just the nature of the golf swing. You have to twist to create enough CH speed to play well. So no swing model can fix that, only dedication to a fitness routine - especially core strength and flexibility.

 

I will finish with my usual Word of Caution. All of this talk is just theory, and from my end, is just meant to help educate folks who visit this site, to hopefully lead them in a direction that will be productive. NOT the same as an actual one on one lesson with me. Not even close.

 

The kind of intense debate and swing nerd discussion that is common on this forum almost never happens in my lessons and that of every teacher I have watched give instruction or talked to about this. I get that it is a "fun hobby" to engage in these arcane and esoteric and highly technical discussions of swing theory. But I cannot tell you how many students I have worked with who actually are blocking their ability to get better at golf precisely because of this obsession with swing theory.

 

The idea seems to be if you can just "figure out" the theory part better, that this alone will somehow magically make you a better ballstriker. That idea is so far from being correct! At some point, the swing nerds have to realize that words and concepts are just symbols, and not very useful in getting your body to move through space in a way that creates better club motion through space, and thus better impact and great golf shots.

 

The problem is that your body is NOT a symbol, and you need to figure out a way to connect your brain to that body to create new movement patterns that create better impact. And that means step by step learning, commitment to the process until you figure out how to do it a way that works for you.

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Hi Jim,

 

I got your e book and have been working on the tilt switch in transition. I am having trouble keeping my head from moving forward in the downswing and I think not getting enough right tilt on downswing is part of my issue. I think I about have it down, at least in slow motion. It seems to really simplify the downswing, by the time the switch is finished, the club is automatically almost back down to parallel with the ground. That is without actively doing anything other than a little bump forward and tilting. My issue/question is, what do I do from that point? It feels like the swing is almost over and I don't feel like I have built any speed. It feels virtually impossible to use my arms at that point, which is a good thing. If I just rotate hard through at that point, it looks good on video, but feels like I wouldn't be able to get it past the red tees. Am I missing something, or is this a common feeling for someone who is used to using arm action from the top?

 

Thanks

Adam

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Jim,

 

Do I remember correctly that Module 4 was divided into Part A and Part B? Can you please tell us which part has the Tilt Illusion and approximately how many minutes in? Please consider this request as my official lobbying for a table of contents or section titles for future videos. Thank you.

 

Tilt Illusion specifically is about how the torso tilts to your left side on backswing and then right on forward swing, blended in with hip flexion/extension/flexion/extension cycle, blended in with rotation of hips, core and torso. How you maintain forward Spine Angle is another big part of this. So really the entire Module 4 is devoted to those topics. Last half of Part A and first half or so of Part B contains the bulk of it.

 

The Illusion itself is just that folks do not see the left side/right side tilt and they do not see the flexion/extension cycle.

 

Basic question: Can you ever have too much left tilt?

 

I seem to have plenty of right tilt but even the concept of left tilt never registered to me. From that my swing had too flat shoulders and too upright arms. The fix was "lower lead shoulder at the top" but in doing that I did not grasp the left tilt aspect as well so I want to work iit n better. Thus my question

 

My miss w/ long clubs is blocked right. Mid & short clubs miss left, and though control of those are a lot better these days, the blocked Driver is of the biggest concerns.

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Jim,

 

Do I remember correctly that Module 4 was divided into Part A and Part B? Can you please tell us which part has the Tilt Illusion and approximately how many minutes in? Please consider this request as my official lobbying for a table of contents or section titles for future videos. Thank you.

 

Tilt Illusion specifically is about how the torso tilts to your left side on backswing and then right on forward swing, blended in with hip flexion/extension/flexion/extension cycle, blended in with rotation of hips, core and torso. How you maintain forward Spine Angle is another big part of this. So really the entire Module 4 is devoted to those topics. Last half of Part A and first half or so of Part B contains the bulk of it.

 

The Illusion itself is just that folks do not see the left side/right side tilt and they do not see the flexion/extension cycle.

 

Basic question: Can you ever have too much left tilt?

 

I seem to have plenty of right tilt but even the concept of left tilt never registered to me. From that my swing had too flat shoulders and too upright arms. The fix was "lower lead shoulder at the top" but in doing that I did not grasp the left tilt aspect as well so I want to work iit n better. Thus my question

 

My miss w/ long clubs is blocked right. Mid & short clubs miss left, and though control of those are a lot better these days, the blocked Driver is of the biggest concerns.

 

Yes, certainly you can have too much left tilt, in fact, it's possible to have too much range of motion in ANY moving body part.

Which is one of the many reasons why swing theory falls flat a lot of the time. You need an actual lesson to know what the parameters are for how much and how little a body part should be moving through space. Same thing for the speed of the body part.

 

The "fix" should seldom only be "what you look like at the end of a range motion" but rather how you actually start/execute the motion, ie which muscles to fire and when. Telling a golfer to achieve "left shoulder down more at the Top" without also telling him or her HOW TO DO THAT is really not very good advice, in my experience. And I am refering to an actual lesson, not talking swing theory on a forum.

 

Meaning in your case, you may need to start tilting to your left side of torso RIGHT AWAY at the start of the backswing. Blended in the other two main pieces, of extension and rotation.

 

Tilt Illusion is powerful! There used to be many heated debates in several different threads on this forum about this issue. Meaning most of the posters did not even understand that you are supposed to tilt left on the backswing. Because you can't "see it" - until you can.

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Hi Jim,

 

I got your e book and have been working on the tilt switch in transition. I am having trouble keeping my head from moving forward in the downswing and I think not getting enough right tilt on downswing is part of my issue. I think I about have it down, at least in slow motion. It seems to really simplify the downswing, by the time the switch is finished, the club is automatically almost back down to parallel with the ground. That is without actively doing anything other than a little bump forward and tilting. My issue/question is, what do I do from that point? It feels like the swing is almost over and I don't feel like I have built any speed. It feels virtually impossible to use my arms at that point, which is a good thing. If I just rotate hard through at that point, it looks good on video, but feels like I wouldn't be able to get it past the red tees. Am I missing something, or is this a common feeling for someone who is used to using arm action from the top?

 

Thanks

Adam

 

Hi Adam - really good questions!

 

Yes, the slight lateral bump and turn of the hip girdle along with the Tilt Switch and a bit of s girdle rotation is all it takes to get down to P6. IF you start from a good Top position with good Triangle arm pressures, of course.

 

From P6 or a bit earlier you Pivot Thrust - you twist your body weight against the ground, ie from the ground up, your rotate and keep rightward tilting, both of those things will move your arms forward at a high rate of speed, IF you do that move quickly, ie the rotate and tilt. Kinetic chain dynamic starts a micro-second later as left knee starts to straighten and the Left Wall forms. This creates the Energy Wave that you can feel in your body, ie transfer of energy from leading to trailing segments down into your wrists, which then open up their angles at a high rate of speed, I call it "turbo boosting". Forearm rotation during Release is a second turbo booster.

 

It does seem hard to believe that doing that from P6 will create enough CH speed, at least to ones "common sense". Very common to hear that from new students.

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Think of getting better at golf as a process of acquiring new skills over a long period time. Playing well requires arriving on the first tee with a toolbox full of tools: golf swing tool, putting tool, short game tool, etc.

 

But you cannot go out to "Golf Tools R Us" and buy them. You fashion them yourself - hopefully with the assistance of a good coach.

 

But even that skill learning process requires tools that must come first. Meaning you need tools to enable you to manufacture the other tools.

 

Mental focus and understanding Awareness are the two main "pre-tools".

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Jim, thanks so much for the recent series of "big picture" commentaries you've been posting. They've been helpful to coalesce the huge amount of information in this thread and your videos.

 

I'd like to follow up with a question of my own regarding the tilt switch. First of all, I've always had a very flat shoulder plane on my backswing. Now that I've been getting more left bend blended into my backswing, I find that I have a lot more tilt to switch - a lot further distance down that my right shoulder has to travel. Now for the question: How much muscle power is involved in getting from left bend to right bend? Is it more akin to a dance move or a weighted situp?

 

Also I remember in a skype lesson you saying that the right bend doesn't just happen suddenly at the start of the downswing but happens continuously to impact. Am I remembering correctly? Also beyond impact?

 

Best regards

O

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Jim, thanks so much for the recent series of "big picture" commentaries you've been posting. They've been helpful to coalesce the huge amount of information in this thread and your videos.

 

I'd like to follow up with a question of my own regarding the tilt switch. First of all, I've always had a very flat shoulder plane on my backswing. Now that I've been getting more left bend blended into my backswing, I find that I have a lot more tilt to switch - a lot further distance down that my right shoulder has to travel. Now for the question: How much muscle power is involved in getting from left bend to right bend? Is it more akin to a dance move or a weighted situp?

 

Also I remember in a skype lesson you saying that the right bend doesn't just happen suddenly at the start of the downswing but happens continuously to impact. Am I remembering correctly? Also beyond impact?

 

Best regards

O

 

Hi O - not a lot of muscle power. Try the "I'm a little teacup" exercise. More like a dance move. Rightward tilt happens all the way to followthrough position where hands are around waist high on left side of your body, post-impact.

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D - it's the idea of the Left Wall, ie from left foot all the way up into your left armpit, there is a wall of

resistance that prevents any lateral sway of your upper body toward the target during the Release segment.

 

Torso still free to rotate over that left leg post, so you "turn the corner level left" (Hogan's term) over a stable

left leg.

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If an individual has an issue with getting "offsides" like Mr Lopez calls it or lateral sway on the follow-through, could it be because of not enough reduction of forward flexion early enough? If you're reaching impact with open shoulders, then would that mean that you need to actually remove forward flexion before impact and replacing it with right bend. So it could feel like you're lifting up or intentionally standing up before impact for someone who has the habit of getting his head in front of the shot?

 

Sorry to get into golf nerd talk again but this is still Golfwrx afterall :)

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If an individual has an issue with getting "offsides" like Mr Lopez calls it or lateral sway on the follow-through, could it be because of not enough reduction of forward flexion early enough? If you're reaching impact with open shoulders, then would that mean that you need to actually remove forward flexion before impact and replacing it with right bend. So it could feel like you're lifting up or intentionally standing up before impact for someone who has the habit of getting his head in front of the shot?

 

Sorry to get into golf nerd talk again but this is still Golfwrx afterall :)

 

Yes, staying too long in flexion is one way to move the upper swing center/head lateral sway move. But in my experience it is pretty rare. Most folks who sway do so because of a pure lateral slide with no Left Wall.

 

Common because lower body must shift laterally, ie hips or lower center and the head/sternum want to go along for the ride.

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Had a really productive range session yesterday using ASI and delving into the left tilt on the back swing. Found LT to be really helpful in that the swing felt more balanced and the execution of right tilt came more natural in fashion. I also found it easier to take a deeper shoulder turn, results with shorts to mid irons were great, long irons & woods a little more sporadic but good strikes very efficient in power. Real positive trends that are cementing a better swing.

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Had a really productive range session yesterday using ASI and delving into the left tilt on the back swing. Found LT to be really helpful in that the swing felt more balanced and the execution of right tilt came more natural in fashion. I also found it easier to take a deeper shoulder turn, results with shorts to mid irons were great, long irons & woods a little more sporadic but good strikes very efficient in power. Real positive trends that are cementing a better swing.

 

Hi N - I agree the left and right tilt parts are hugely important in building an effective golf swing!

 

Glad to hear you are starting to see some positive results....

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Finding this thread has transformed my swing and game. I'm finally able to understand the feeling that so many swing instructions describe as width and arms away from the body during the backswing. I took a couple of swings in my yard and the light bulb came on. I took this, new to me, technique to the course last weekend without practicing at the range. It took me 5 holes to warm up and find the correct ball position. Once comfortable with the swing adjustment, I gained distance and consistency I sorely searched since starting golf 20 years ago. Plus this comes two months after picking up golf again after a 10 year layoff (< 3 rounds per year). Golf is enjoyable again. Thanks Jim Waldron and Golf WRX for providing this resource.

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One of the toughest things to learn about the golf swing is the relationship between independent arm action in the horizontal dimension of the forward swing and the Pivot.

 

If you are struggling with poor Impact, could very well be that you are using your upper arm muscles to move the arms sideways across torso mid-line just before, during and impact, ie during the Release segment.

 

If you wonder why that can be so problematic, stand normally and extend your lead arm to chest height and parallel to the ground. Move your arm up and down, side to side, on a 45 degree angle to the ground, and then in a circle. That arm to shoulder joint has a tremendous amount of range of motion!

 

In golf, you are attempting to a hit a spot on the back of the golf ball the size of a dimple, using a spot on the center of the clubface the size of the tip of a pencil eraser, while the clubhead is moving 80-100 plus mph, over a huge arc from top of backswing to impact.

 

If you are using the upper arm/shoulder joint to guide or steer for solid impact and accurate shots, or propel that motion for CH speed and power - good luck!

 

SuperConnection of the upper arms during Release is only part of the Answer. You have to be actively engaging the Pivot to power the swing, ie to move the arms Triangle down, out and forward. Meaning your Pivot is primarily responsible for the eraser tip hitting the dimple on the golf ball, your Pivot is responsible for a huge chunk of your CH speed (Levers also play a role clearly but not upper arms levers after P6 when Release begins) and your Pivot is responsible for achieving an on plane clubshaft at impact and a good clubhead path, for accuracy.

 

What tends to happen, for average golfers especially, is that they do in fact use their upper arms to try to achieve those three goals, and end up massively stalling their Pivots in order to do that.

 

And learning to "do nothing" with your arms on the downswing (meaning arm muscles moving the arms in the horizontal dimension) will not work if you are not actively engaging your Pivot.

 

Jim, When you say pivot. Does this mean the motion similar to throwing a football or baseball but on an inclined plane or something else? Tanner

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I have the issue of yanking it inside trying to open the face after years of playing with a shut clubface and coming OOT. I watched your video in another thread and is it really as simple as move the club straight forward to the imaginary guy standing facing you and then just turning the shoulders and chest together?

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I have the issue of yanking it inside trying to open the face after years of playing with a shut clubface and coming OOT. I watched your video in another thread and is it really as simple as move the club straight forward to the imaginary guy standing facing you and then just turning the shoulders and chest together?

 

No, that is not correct. In a real swing, the arm pushaway of 4-8 inches happens SIMULTANEOUSLY with the Pivot of core and torso, along with some slight wrist hinging and cocking.

 

The direction of the arm pushaway would only be toward the person standing in front of you and to your right (for the 45 degree angle to the chest) if you did NOT pivot at all. In a real swing your chest is constantly moving so in fact there is NO fixed direction to push away toward.

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I have the issue of yanking it inside trying to open the face after years of playing with a shut clubface and coming OOT. I watched your video in another thread and is it really as simple as move the club straight forward to the imaginary guy standing facing you and then just turning the shoulders and chest together?

 

No, that is not correct. In a real swing, the arm pushaway of 4-8 inches happens SIMULTANEOUSLY with the Pivot of core and torso, along with some slight wrist hinging and cocking.

 

The direction of the arm pushaway would only be toward the person standing in front of you and to your right (for the 45 degree angle to the chest) if you did NOT pivot at all. In a real swing your chest is constantly moving so in fact there is NO fixed direction to push away toward.

 

 

Bad way to phrase that I guess but the club has to go outward to start and that happens with the chest/shoulders turning as well. Here's the video I was watching

 

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