Cameron Red X "Lawsuit"?

[evnpar1020]

Hey Cameron guys. I'm curious of the value of the Red X2 Center shaft "Lawsuit" putter. I just picked one up brand new never played with cover and tool, and I'm curious of its value. I was thinking of making it into a belly putter but since its brand new I'm not sure if I don't want to stick it in the closet for few years. Thanks

[muxi87]

I don't think they're too valuable...there were TONS made like that.

I had a buddy torch one recently even...

[Dizz]

Not worth too much, at least to keep. I remember reading on TCC that there was never a lawsuit and that was just made up but who knows.

[Chappie]

Sounds like a typical modern-day TCC comment.

[Dizz]

[quote name='Chappie' timestamp='1325912339' post='4040379']
Sounds like a typical modern-day TCC comment.
[/quote]

Any proof of this lawsuit?

[TJCDAS]

Only Ping designed Cameron putters are worth collecting, X putters not that much.

[hebron1427]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1325912727' post='4040409']
[quote name='Chappie' timestamp='1325912339' post='4040379']
Sounds like a typical modern-day TCC comment.
[/quote]

Any proof of this lawsuit?
[/quote]

I couldn't find a complaint, but it's likely they didn't have to. A C&D letter probably did them well enough.

Proof? The proof is that there was once a dot and now there's not. You do the math.

[PutterHo]

What about the napa (wilson) or coronado (Mills) to go along with the newport (anser) / 009 (dalehead) / laguna (zing)
[quote name='TJCDAS' timestamp='1325995963' post='4044101']
Only Ping designed Cameron putters are worth collecting, X putters not that much.
[/quote]

[Dizz]

[quote name='TJCDAS' timestamp='1325995963' post='4044101']
Only Ping designed Cameron putters are worth collecting, X putters not that much.
[/quote]

Aren't too many popular models today that weren't designed by PING... by any putter maker.

[Llortamaisey]

If this is a class action suit I'd like to get in on it if the statute of limitations have not been exceeded.

I had a Red X putter and it was terrible. I feel that I should be awarded damages for the money I lost to my buddies on the golf course, the time I lost on the practice green, and mental abuse I was put through trying to lag putts.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1326041067' post='4045783']
If this is a class action suit I'd like to get in on it if the statute of limitations have not been exceeded.

I had a Red X putter and it was terrible. I feel that I should be awarded damages for the money I lost to my buddies on the golf course, the time I lost on the practice green, and mental abuse I was put through trying to lag putts.
[/quote]

Maybe you could collect from Charlie Hoffman, he used one several of his best years making a ton of $$$.

http://www.putterzone.com/2010/09/charley-hoffmans-putter-cameron-red-x.html

Kevin

[jaskanski]

Not forgetting Darren Clarke who used one on and off for a few seasons. (top right)
[attachment=974873:00192-darren-clarke-witb.jpg]

[KevCarter]

I did forget Jask. Great picture. DC has always been one of my favorites too!!!

Kevin

[hebron1427]

[quote name='patrickw25' timestamp='1326040633' post='4045759']
[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1325996593' post='4044145']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1325912727' post='4040409']
[quote name='Chappie' timestamp='1325912339' post='4040379']
Sounds like a typical modern-day TCC comment.
[/quote]

Any proof of this lawsuit?
[/quote]

I couldn't find a complaint, but it's likely they didn't have to. A C&D letter probably did them well enough.

Proof? The proof is that there was once a dot and now there's not. You do the math.
[/quote]

Scotty is still using the dot. Look at the Newport 2.6.
[/quote]

"the dot" is not what's patented.

[patrickw25]

[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1326132311' post='4050887']
[quote name='patrickw25' timestamp='1326040633' post='4045759']
[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1325996593' post='4044145']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1325912727' post='4040409']
[quote name='Chappie' timestamp='1325912339' post='4040379']
Sounds like a typical modern-day TCC comment.
[/quote]

Any proof of this lawsuit?
[/quote]

I couldn't find a complaint, but it's likely they didn't have to. A C&D letter probably did them well enough.

[u][b]Proof? The proof is that there was once a dot and now there's not. You do the math.[/b][/u]
[/quote]

Scotty is still using the dot. Look at the Newport 2.6.
[/quote]

"the dot" is not what's patented.
[/quote]

I didn't say it was. I was just responding to what you said above (the bolded and underlined part).

To the extent the use of the dot ever was a legal issue, as you suggested it was, it appears to no longer be.

[hebron1427]

[quote name='patrickw25' timestamp='1326154070' post='4052851']
[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1326132311' post='4050887']
[quote name='patrickw25' timestamp='1326040633' post='4045759']
[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1325996593' post='4044145']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1325912727' post='4040409']

Any proof of this lawsuit?
[/quote]

I couldn't find a complaint, but it's likely they didn't have to. A C&D letter probably did them well enough.

[u][b]Proof? The proof is that there was once a dot and now there's not. You do the math.[/b][/u]
[/quote]

Scotty is still using the dot. Look at the Newport 2.6.
[/quote]

"the dot" is not what's patented.
[/quote]

I didn't say it was. I was just responding to what you said above (the bolded and underlined part).

To the extent the use of the dot ever was a legal issue, as you suggested it was, it appears to no longer be.
[/quote]

once again, "use of the dot" is not a legal issue. use of the dot on the redX head is. i do this for a living. there is a difference

[Zach Heusser]

Thanks for the pic of DC's bag he is one of favorites...On a side note I had that same putter and tried hard to like it but couldn't make anything with it! I pulled a JD and gave it to a kid....

[hebron1427]

[quote name='patrickw25' timestamp='1326162006' post='4053585']
[quote]

once again, "use of the dot" is not a legal issue. use of the dot on the redX head is. i do this for a living. there is a difference
[/quote]

While I'm not [i]that[/i] kind of lawyer, I [i]do[/i] understand the difference. And I see that you think the issue (and we're all just speculating here, because we don't know what really happened) was similarities between the Red X2 and the patented Seemore head you linked to.

I had always assumed that the issue was infringement of Seemore's patent on the "Rifle Scope Technology" (i.e., the "hide the dot" technology). I had also assumed that Scotty had ceased use once threatened with action, but had probably paid Seemore something eventually, which is why Scotty started using it again on the Newport 2.6 (which is the first center or near-center shafted head he's made since 2007, when he had the Red X2, Detour 2, and Futura Phantom 2, which all had dot(s), and which [i]all[/i] disappeared after 2007).

Who knows, right?
[/quote]

Certainly possible, and completely within the scope of what might've happened. Without a view to a complaint or a C&D we won't know. However, my brief patent searching uncovered only that design patent as assigned to Seemore. So, as far as I know, that's the only patent they have. Although I'm not a design patent guru, the scope of protection is kind of fuzzy with design patents as opposed to utility patents, in which the scope is usually well-defined (until claim construction, that is). However, given the detail in the patent as to the shape of the head, I doubt a newport-shape head would be considered infringed. The RedX, however, is a mallet style head with a shaft that inserted into the head just like the patent. Much closer design falls more squarely within the scope of the patent.

As you and I both know, there's likely an amount of money paid behind the scenes to make this all go away. It might somewhat explain how Seemore has managed to stay in business without (a) a corporate funding base from general club and ball sales (like Acushnet, Callaway, TM, etc), (b) a fanatical fan base that purchases all variations of the products (read Byron Morgan, Machine, TP Mills), or © a large market-share of the golfing public (PING). Other companies in similar positions have gone under (Ray Cook)--or at least been purchased (Yes!, and wasn't Rife also purchased?).

[Tim Delgado]

[quote name='evnpar1020' timestamp='1325907491' post='4040059']
Hey Cameron guys. I'm curious of the value of the Red X2 Center shaft "Lawsuit" putter. I just picked one up brand new never played with cover and tool, and I'm curious of its value. I was thinking of making it into a belly putter but since its brand new I'm not sure if I don't want to stick it in the closet for few years. Thanks
[/quote]


Only if it is a tour-issue Circle T.

Otherwise, the Red X2 putters can be picked up on Ebay for $100-$150 mint/new.

Tim

[502 to Right]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1326042238' post='4045863']
[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1326041067' post='4045783']
If this is a class action suit I'd like to get in on it if the statute of limitations have not been exceeded.

I had a Red X putter and it was terrible. I feel that I should be awarded damages for the money I lost to my buddies on the golf course, the time I lost on the practice green, and mental abuse I was put through trying to lag putts.
[/quote]

Maybe you could collect from Charlie Hoffman, he used one several of his best years making a ton of $$$.

http://www.putterzone.com/2010/09/charley-hoffmans-putter-cameron-red-x.html

Kevin
[/quote]

Mullet Hoffman has been known to throw Red X's in water hazards too. Even breaks them over his knee. Just sayin'.

[Yanki01]

currently have the x5 and would like to try this model. Is the feel any different between the two?

[Joe85]

The heavier ones (shorter - 33", heavier - 350 grams) do fetch decent cash. I got a 340 gram one recently at PIA for $95.00 and was thrilled. Excellent condition with nice head cover. It's on eBay now because I want to do too much to this putter (cut it short, or add a counterbalance grip) for how nice it is.

[Joe85]

Were these legal to play on tour?