Fowler, soft ? Content loser ? Spoiled ?

[smeech8000]

Yes, the best players ever/today were/are great mentally, but they also brought incredibly unique physical skillsets that allowed them to play different games than their competitors.

 

Is there really another "incredibly unique physical skillset" that would allow a player to play a different game besides the ability to hit it further/length? I mean, different players definitely excelled at different facets of the game which tended to define their legacy - Hogan was a great ballstriker, but couldn't putt. Jack had the best long game and could putt. Tiger had everything. But they were all airtight upstairs.

 

The fact that the common bond is their mental prowess means it is the most important attribute IMO. A strength in one physical area can make up for deficiencies in another, but you need to have the head for any of it to work.

[mjen43]

Yes, the best players ever/today were/are great mentally, but they also brought incredibly unique physical skillsets that allowed them to play different games than their competitors.

 

Is there really another "incredibly unique physical skillset" that would allow a player to play a different game besides the ability to hit it further/length? I mean, different players definitely excelled at different facets of the game which tended to define their legacy - Hogan was a great ballstriker, but couldn't putt. Jack had the best long game and could putt. Tiger had everything. But they were all airtight upstairs.

 

The fact that the common bond is their mental prowess means it is the most important attribute IMO. A strength in one physical area can make up for deficiencies in another, but you need to have the head for any of it to work.

 

I think there are tons of guys on tour who are great mentally though. Billy Hurley (military veteran), Brett Stegmaier (sophomore on tour who worked in pro shops for a long time), YE Yang (took down prime Tiger) just to name a few. The reason they don't win though is because they just don't do the things physically on the course that are necessary consistently enough.

 

Today, guys such as Rory and Spieth are the best because one is one of the greatest drivers of the ball ever (when on) and the other is the best iron player on tour and legendary putter. To me, this is their edge over the competition and why they win. They can consistently perform these physical skills better than everyone else in the world. In the past, Tiger was basically the best at every aspect of the game. Nobody on tour wins without hitting the shots necessary and I think that is physical more than mental talent. I think all the talk about mental ability is mostly media generated hype designed to turn these people into larger than life figures (which is what sells). It seems much more reasonable to believe that they win because they are just better at hitting the ball (whether thats off the tee, fairway, around or on the greens) rather than some supernatural mental ability to will the ball in the hole.

[new2g0lf]

Yes, the best players ever/today were/are great mentally, but they also brought incredibly unique physical skillsets that allowed them to play different games than their competitors.

 

Is there really another "incredibly unique physical skillset" that would allow a player to play a different game besides the ability to hit it further/length? I mean, different players definitely excelled at different facets of the game which tended to define their legacy - Hogan was a great ballstriker, but couldn't putt. Jack had the best long game and could putt. Tiger had everything. But they were all airtight upstairs.

 

The fact that the common bond is their mental prowess means it is the most important attribute IMO. A strength in one physical area can make up for deficiencies in another, but you need to have the head for any of it to work.

 

I think there are tons of guys on tour who are great mentally though. Billy Hurley (military veteran), Brett Stegmaier (sophomore on tour who worked in pro shops for a long time), YE Yang (took down prime Tiger) just to name a few. The reason they don't win though is because they just don't do the things physically on the course that are necessary consistently enough.

 

Today, guys such as Rory and Spieth are the best because one is one of the greatest drivers of the ball ever (when on) and the other is the best iron player on tour and legendary putter. To me, this is their edge over the competition and why they win. They can consistently perform these physical skills better than everyone else in the world. In the past, Tiger was basically the best at every aspect of the game. Nobody on tour wins without hitting the shots necessary and I think that is physical more than mental talent. I think all the talk about mental ability is mostly media generated hype designed to turn these people into larger than life figures (which is what sells). It seems much more reasonable to believe that they win because they are just better at hitting the ball (whether thats off the tee, fairway, around or on the greens) rather than some supernatural mental ability to will the ball in the hole.

 

Some guys are great because they thrive to be great. Tiger wanted to be great and he dedicated his life to working out, practicing golf and being the best. Guys like Pete Rose, Derek Jeter (I hate the Yankees) and many others had mental strength and determination when they competed. They hated losing and did everything they could to avoid it.

 

When we talk about a guy like Fowler, it's not that he's mentally weak or soft, it's that he doesn't seem to possess that drive and determination that you see from guys that I mentioned, like Tiger.

[mjen43]

There's really no way to determine who has what level of drive or measure what effect that drive really has without being in that person's head. I think we can all recognize now that Tiger's absurd dedication to the game was a media hype generated narrative.

 

He clearly had many passions outside of golf that took precedence over his golf game at various points in his life (pretend Navy SEAL training, Vegas trips, women). He obviously was very competitive and wanted to win, but he was also the most physically gifted golfer to ever play the game. That alone will carry someone a long ways. He was a child prodigy in a way the golf world has never seen before.

 

Guys like Rickie are amazing players but they mostly just lack the finer tools (speed, touch, creativity, recovery skills, all the small things) to become all time greats. There's really just not that much about Fowler's game that makes me believe he has underachieved. He'll have his day eventually but what tangible skill is he bringing to the golf world that we have not seen before? What does he do or have the potential to be better than everyone in the world at?

 

Derek Jeter was always a good player but he was never the best in the MLB. He was a top 10ish player, just like Rickie. What's the difference then? I think it's just perceived image and a failure on behalf of human nature to recognize that everyone is different and there are many ways to get it done.

[BearQ]

This Fowler stuff has blown out of proportion. I think its a complete non issue. But the media continues to make it a story.

 

He is a competitor, he does care and he will win big one day. He plays a full schedule and practices a lot (had to in order to rebuild old swing with Butch). I don't understand the negativity towards his instincts or desire to win.

 

Its a very brutal and unforgiving game. His methods and mental approach are what help him keep his sanity. It works for him. I hope this story dies, pro golf is really boring right now to be discussing this.

[Jasonic]

There's really no way to determine who has what level of drive or measure what effect that drive really has without being in that person's head. I think we can all recognize now that Tiger's absurd dedication to the game was a media hype generated narrative.

 

He clearly had many passions outside of golf that took precedence over his golf game at various points in his life (pretend Navy SEAL training, Vegas trips, women). He obviously was very competitive and wanted to win, but he was also the most physically gifted golfer to ever play the game. That alone will carry someone a long ways. He was a child prodigy in a way the golf world has never seen before.

 

Guys like Rickie are amazing players but they mostly just lack the finer tools (speed, touch, creativity, recovery skills, all the small things) to become all time greats. There's really just not that much about Fowler's game that makes me believe he has underachieved. He'll have his day eventually but what tangible skill is he bringing to the golf world that we have not seen before? What does he do or have the potential to be better than everyone in the world at?

 

Derek Jeter was always a good player but he was never the best in the MLB. He was a top 10ish player, just like Rickie. What's the difference then? I think it's just perceived image and a failure on behalf of human nature to recognize that everyone is different and there are many ways to get it done.

 

I don't think tigers dedication to the game was a media narrative, he was an obsessive practicer to become that great, mentally and skill wise. The media and his team definitely created his mr perfect public persona which after the veil was lifted was obviously not the case.

 

As for Rickie, all those things you mentioned don't really add up. How can he lack the little things like creativity, touch etc when he leads the tour in bunker play, second in total short game, first in total driving and first in scoring average at the moment? I think it's something else, it's really hard to win :)

 

He is like Jeter, really good st everything but not a standout at one thing and extremely likeable without it seeming fake. Only thing lacking is Jeter had a whole team around him to help (best closer ever doesn't hurt ha) won a lot of championships and seemed to excel and not choke in the big moments. Hopefully Rickie can get there, I think he's great for golf.

[drbonesvt]

IBTL

 

Fowler is filthy rich, ranked 9th in the world and is banging Allison Stokke. I think we can rule out "loser".

 

I have applied for the position of "Ricky fowlers dog" that is probably pretty tight living also

 

 

[tannyhoban]

That's funny coming fom a guy who writes for the NY Post. Legacy? WTF is he to talk about legacy.

 

Rickie chooses to stay positive, how is that a bad thing?

 

Plenty of angry negative asshats around, glad Rickie chooses not to be.

[new2g0lf]

There's really no way to determine who has what level of drive or measure what effect that drive really has without being in that person's head. I think we can all recognize now that Tiger's absurd dedication to the game was a media hype generated narrative.

 

He clearly had many passions outside of golf that took precedence over his golf game at various points in his life (pretend Navy SEAL training, Vegas trips, women). He obviously was very competitive and wanted to win, but he was also the most physically gifted golfer to ever play the game. That alone will carry someone a long ways. He was a child prodigy in a way the golf world has never seen before.

 

Guys like Rickie are amazing players but they mostly just lack the finer tools (speed, touch, creativity, recovery skills, all the small things) to become all time greats. There's really just not that much about Fowler's game that makes me believe he has underachieved. He'll have his day eventually but what tangible skill is he bringing to the golf world that we have not seen before? What does he do or have the potential to be better than everyone in the world at?

 

Derek Jeter was always a good player but he was never the best in the MLB. He was a top 10ish player, just like Rickie. What's the difference then? I think it's just perceived image and a failure on behalf of human nature to recognize that everyone is different and there are many ways to get it done.

I agree, we can't get in his head, as fans we can only base it (for purposes of discussion) on what we see. Pete Rose and Derek Jeter weren't the best, they weren't the best athletes, they were great because they appeared willing to do whatever it took to win, whether that be dive into a dugout to catch a foul ball or take out a catcher to score a run. There was never a question that when they were on the field they would give 100% to win, no matter what the cost.

 

Rickie is great for the game of golf, he's a great kid and very likable (especially by kids) so I think people want to see him win more because it would help the game. His demeanor is very laid back, he could be very determined to win but his actions and comments make him seem more indifferent and that is what the media is picking up on.

 

I worked with guys that were very talented in their jobs and could have quickly moved up the corporate ladder (making a lot more money too) but they were content with what they had and didn't want to work harder to achieve more success. I can only base my opinion on the limited exposure I have of Fowler but the feeling I get when I watch him play and see his interviews is he's content.

[andrieddle]

A loss is a loss, passionate is subjective to the individual.

 

I think he cares and want to win trophies, if he's content, he can just stop playing, put his money in good hands and enjoy life.

[The Couv]

Rickie stays positive post round, and seems to stay pretty positive at all times. Tells me that Rickie is the one that's got it figured out. It's a short ride on this spinning rock.

[braincramp52]

I have no doubt Rickie has a great desire to win. Sometimes I think he enjoys the social media aspect as much as golf.

[slimeone]

That article is rubbish. Rickie was playing to win and he had fire, and when it became obvious that he wasn't going to win his face looked disappointed. His game is looking good at the moment, he's got a great coach and a great attitude so he should be feeling positive about his game. I'm picking him to play well at The Open.

[umassgolfer]

I have no doubt Rickie has a great desire to win. Sometimes I think he enjoys the social media aspect as much as golf.

 

So what? If he decides to post on social media during his non-golf activities, how is that a negative? It's literally just an insight into his life - doesn't take away from anything on course, he stays positive on all social media and is generally just having fun. Is he not supposed to share what he wants with his fans?

 

Not to mention, I commented recently that it seems as though his twitter and instagram posts have become much less frequent recently.

[drbonesvt]

Fowler is a victim of his own marketing genius. The trademark creamsicle orange wardrobe, the flat bill cap, the carefully manicured facial hair, he crafted his image perfectly and captured the attention of the golfing world. He made absolute BANK with that image but that comes with a price, more attention which means more scrutiny. He's not as good a golfer as Hideki, but Hideki receives no grief for coming up short at Erin Hills because he's kind of a boring, nondescript pro. He blissfully floats under the radar while Rickie faces the full weight of a golfing public who adores him and questions why he can't get it done. It could be considered unfair, but it's also unfair that Fowler has millions of dollars of sponsorship opportunities that other, better golfers don't. I would say Fowler receives the appropriate amount of scrutiny given his lofty status in the game.

 

Good post & to paraphrase Mr. Palmer; if you don't like the attention , give all the money back

[Jasonic]

Fowler is a victim of his own marketing genius. The trademark creamsicle orange wardrobe, the flat bill cap, the carefully manicured facial hair, he crafted his image perfectly and captured the attention of the golfing world. He made absolute BANK with that image but that comes with a price, more attention which means more scrutiny. He's not as good a golfer as Hideki, but Hideki receives no grief for coming up short at Erin Hills because he's kind of a boring, nondescript pro. He blissfully floats under the radar while Rickie faces the full weight of a golfing public who adores him and questions why he can't get it done. It could be considered unfair, but it's also unfair that Fowler has millions of dollars of sponsorship opportunities that other, better golfers don't. I would say Fowler receives the appropriate amount of scrutiny given his lofty status in the game.

 

You can't be more off base about Hideki. He has more Japanese media following him around than anyone else and the scrutinize every single little movement. Much more than the media here and tons of adulation and pressure to succeed from the whole country.

[Darth Putter]

Like Sergio, all he has to do is win one major and the entire narrative changes.

[PhilTickelson]

Total crap story. I remember about ten years ago, Woody Austin got run through the ringer after showing some 'fire' on the course. Everyone said he had a temper and needed to show the game more respect. His response was spot on. Something like:

 

"When Tiger get's fired up on the course it's because he's competitive and hates losing, when I get fired up it's because I am disrespectful to the game and have anger problems."

 

He went on to quote someone saying 'no one hates bogeys more than Tiger does', and he said, "I don't know, I hate bogeys quite a bit."

[DavePelz4]

After making my first $27,000,000 on tour and dating a new PYT every 6 months, I lost my edge. Same thing happened to me when Goose died.

[wkndhack]

Erin Hills was tough to judge because he would have had to shoot like 65 or something lower to even force a playoff. Brooks just ran away from everyone. It's not like he was one down going into 18 and blew a putt. He didn't blow up and shoot 75. He had a good day and someone had a great day. I don't know if that makes it easier or harder to be upset with yourself in that situation.

 

I will say this, he does not seem to like seeing his name on the top of the leader board going into Sunday. His 54 hole lead record is terrible, his wins are mostly come from behind, and there are several high profile tournaments where he was in the thick of things and didn't close. Look at the backdoor top 10 he pulled off last week, middle of the pack to T3.

 

When he wins a major, it will be going into Sunday sitting in 14th or something and his putter lights up, he keeps his driver in play, and makes a charge.

[the bishop]

Golf is hard

[elwhippy]

Bill Hurley? He is hardly a battle hardened ex 101st Airborne or Recon Marine. For a nation that preaches peace your obsession with things that kill others is a tad worrying. And yes Fowler is overrated. His endorsements are obscene in relation to his low number of tour wins.

[ebrasmus21]

Bill Hurley? He is hardly a battle hardened ex 101st Airborne or Recon Marine. For a nation that preaches peace your obsession with things that kill others is a tad worrying. And yes Fowler is overrated. His endorsements are obscene in relation to his low number of tour wins.

 

Genuinely curious, what would the acceptable number of wins be for RFowler at this point in his career?

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Total crap story. I remember about ten years ago, Woody Austin got run through the ringer after showing some 'fire' on the course. Everyone said he had a temper and needed to show the game more respect. His response was spot on. Something like:

 

"When Tiger get's fired up on the course it's because he's competitive and hates losing, when I get fired up it's because I am disrespectful to the game and have anger problems."

 

He went on to quote someone saying 'no one hates bogeys more than Tiger does', and he said, "I don't know, I hate bogeys quite a bit."

 

Exactly. It is not possible to please everyone. Heck...you're doing good to please 50% of people 50% of the time. A chunk of the people that are giving Rickie Fowler s**t for not being fired up enough would be giving him s**t if he was too fired up.

[Jasonic]

Bill Hurley? He is hardly a battle hardened ex 101st Airborne or Recon Marine. For a nation that preaches peace your obsession with things that kill others is a tad worrying. And yes Fowler is overrated. His endorsements are obscene in relation to his low number of tour wins.

 

His endorsements come from the fact that he sells the product, probably more than anyone in recent memory. Tiger's clothes weren't the rage for anyone.

[nickmcd63]

Hard to argue for sure