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America's 20 toughest golf courses


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I thought this Golf Digest list was interesting, but maybe a little flawed. Here are the courses I have played on their list;

 

1. The Ocean Course (agree it should be #1)

 

4. Spyglass Hill

 

7. TPC Sawgrass

 

8. PGA West (Stadium)

 

10. Pinehurst #2

 

13. Olympic Club (Lake)

 

14. Pebble Beach

 

17. Torrey Pines (South)

 

19. Desert Mtn. Club (Renegade)

 

I agree with all of these except Pebble.

 

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This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.

 

Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

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Pebble only makes the list because the typical amateur miss will be to the right. Holes 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, are all double bogey holes if you miss it right, as recovery shots are difficult to such small greens. Course is wide open on the left, as this is my miss pebble would not crack the top 50 most difficult courses I have played. Pinehurst is quite open as a lie in the waste areas will be playable 90% of the time. For amateurs the green complexes are what resist scoring, IMO that alone puts it just about right on the list. For me spyglass plays more difficult than The Ocean Course.

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LOLOLOL!!!

There is no way, simply no way, that Pacific Dunes is one of "America's 20 Toughest". Think it would struggle to make the 20 toughest in the Pacific Northwest.

Pebble has tiny greens, and some really strong holes, but I don't think too many walk off 18 thinking it was tough, per say.

 

Agree with DG - they just bunged together a list of randoms for a click bait slideshow: duly baited.

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

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I have played Pebble, Pinehurst and Spyglass. Granted I did not play from the tips, which I know changes things....but these are NOT the toughest courses I have played. Maybe the 3 coolest and most memorable, but not the toughest.

Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.

 

Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

 

I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.

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I've only played 3

 

Bethpage

Sawgrass

Torrey South

 

Bethpage was a full ditch pig, scary tough

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This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.

 

Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

 

I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.

 

I think this is correct ^^

 

Yet another reason these rankings are trivial at best.

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Im not even sure Pacific Dunes is the toughest course on the Bandon property. Certainly not a top 20 toughest in the country.

 

To me, this list is the toughest 20 of the top 50 greatest courses in the country lol. And even with that, it's still not accurate.

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Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.

 

PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.

 

Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.

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This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.

 

Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

 

I played Sawgrass twice and it kicked my butt both times. I would vote to keep it on the list.

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Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.

 

PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.

 

Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.

 

I've had the chance to play Pound Ridge a few times but politely turn it down. Paying $225 to be tortured by some tricked up Dye course in the NYC suburbs does not seem appealing to me. I've yet to hear anyone give the course a ringing endorsement.

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Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.

 

PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.

 

Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.

 

I've had the chance to play Pound Ridge a few times but politely turn it down. Paying $225 to be tortured by some tricked up Dye course in the NYC suburbs does not seem appealing to me. I've yet to hear anyone give the course a ringing endorsement.

 

So you've told Pound Ridge to go pound sand ;)

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

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This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.

 

Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

 

I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.

I think that is correct. Very lazy reporting in my opinion.

Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.

 

Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

 

I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.

I think that is correct. Very lazy reporting in my opinion.

 

Eh. They're just recutting data that they already have. It's a pretty big dataset...up next, America's 20 Best Conditioned Golf Courses!

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Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.

 

PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.

 

Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.

 

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Torrey Pines and Pebble don't belong on this list. Pebble is only hard for the first timer who focuses more on the views than on the golf (spoken from experience). Torrey is hard when they grow the rough and pinch the fairways...but you can make the easier course you can think of that tough when you do that. As a test of golf I was underwhelmed by Torrey (but loved the views).

 

While it doesn't seem to be the popular opinio, I will agree with them when they place TPC Sawgrass on this list...it's a mental test and a tough design...hardest flat course you'll ever play.

 

Oakmont and Bethpage belong on that list, so no argument from me there.

 

And that's all I've got.

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This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.

 

Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

 

I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.

 

So, why is that a problem.

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I've played the Ocean Course and it's really about the wind which can make it nearly impossible. Thankfully, they have a crew that gets a good forecast for how the wind is blowing and can make the course reasonable. But if they wanted to, they can make it impossible.

 

Bethpage is really hard if the rough is up. Just some extremely difficult shots and if the rough is high, fuhgetabouit.

 

I have yet to play Sawgrass, but I have been on there many times. 1-3 aren't that difficult. #4 is more tricky, but if you hit a good tee shot you're typically going to come away with at least a par, if not a birdie. #5 is very hard, #6 is pretty easy. #7 and #8 are very hard. #10-12 are not that hard. 13 is difficult to make par, but you really shouldn't be coming away with a double. 14 is extremely hard. 15 is above average in difficulty. 18 is very hard, but 16 and 17 are not that difficult. I just don't see Sawgrass anywhere near in the vicinity of difficulty as Kiawah or Bethpage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

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I've played the Ocean Course and it's really about the wind which can make it nearly impossible. Thankfully, they have a crew that gets a good forecast for how the wind is blowing and can make the course reasonable. But if they wanted to, they can make it impossible.

 

Bethpage is really hard if the rough is up. Just some extremely difficult shots and if the rough is high, fuhgetabouit.

 

I have yet to play Sawgrass, but I have been on there many times. 1-3 aren't that difficult. #4 is more tricky, but if you hit a good tee shot you're typically going to come away with at least a par, if not a birdie. #5 is very hard, #6 is pretty easy. #7 and #8 are very hard. #10-12 are not that hard. 13 is difficult to make par, but you really shouldn't be coming away with a double. 14 is extremely hard. 15 is above average in difficulty. 18 is very hard, but 16 and 17 are not that difficult. I just don't see Sawgrass anywhere near in the vicinity of difficulty as Kiawah or Bethpage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

Course is harder than it looks. Start missing the ball around the green and good luck.

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This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.

 

Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

 

I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.

 

So, why is that a problem.

 

I don't think it is. Just helpful to understand the methodology. For "resistance to scoring" courses are rated on difficulty for a scratch golfer from the Championship tees. It would be interesting to compare USGA course ratings for the same tees, which is probably a more objective methodology.

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I don't think it is. Just helpful to understand the methodology. For "resistance to scoring" courses are rated on difficulty for a scratch golfer from the Championship tees. It would be interesting to compare USGA course ratings for the same tees, which is probably a more objective methodology.

 

Believe these are all par 72

 

Ocean Course is 79.2 from the tips

Sawgrass is 76.4

Bethpage is 78.1

Pebble is 74.7

Pound Ridge is 76

Pacific Dunes 73 (Par 71)

 

 

A couple of those are a joke. 73 for a par 71 is on the list of most difficult list? lol

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I've played the Ocean Course and it's really about the wind which can make it nearly impossible. Thankfully, they have a crew that gets a good forecast for how the wind is blowing and can make the course reasonable. But if they wanted to, they can make it impossible.

 

Bethpage is really hard if the rough is up. Just some extremely difficult shots and if the rough is high, fuhgetabouit.

 

I have yet to play Sawgrass, but I have been on there many times. 1-3 aren't that difficult. #4 is more tricky, but if you hit a good tee shot you're typically going to come away with at least a par, if not a birdie. #5 is very hard, #6 is pretty easy. #7 and #8 are very hard. #10-12 are not that hard. 13 is difficult to make par, but you really shouldn't be coming away with a double. 14 is extremely hard. 15 is above average in difficulty. 18 is very hard, but 16 and 17 are not that difficult. I just don't see Sawgrass anywhere near in the vicinity of difficulty as Kiawah or Bethpage.

 

RH

 

The slope at Sawgrass is 155.....not too shabby. What got me when I played it was the thick rough, especially around the greens since the greens were as hard as concrete. So hitting a three yard shot out of thick rough and stopping it on the hard greens was a challenge.

 

FYI, Bethpage slope is 148 and the Ocean Course is 153.

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I don't think it is. Just helpful to understand the methodology. For "resistance to scoring" courses are rated on difficulty for a scratch golfer from the Championship tees. It would be interesting to compare USGA course ratings for the same tees, which is probably a more objective methodology.

 

Believe these are all par 72

 

Ocean Course is 79.2 from the tips

Sawgrass is 76.4

Bethpage is 78.1

Pebble is 74.7

Pound Ridge is 76

Pacific Dunes 73 (Par 71)

 

 

A couple of those are a joke. 73 for a par 71 is on the list of most difficult list? lol

 

Course rating reflects the difficulty for a scratch golfer. So you should also look at slope.

 

Sawgrass: 155

Ocean Course: 153

Bethpage: 148

Pebble: 145

 

BTW, the US Open rating for Pebble is 75.5

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I don't think it is. Just helpful to understand the methodology. For "resistance to scoring" courses are rated on difficulty for a scratch golfer from the Championship tees. It would be interesting to compare USGA course ratings for the same tees, which is probably a more objective methodology.

 

Believe these are all par 72

 

Ocean Course is 79.2 from the tips

Sawgrass is 76.4

Bethpage is 78.1

Pebble is 74.7

Pound Ridge is 76

Pacific Dunes 73 (Par 71)

 

 

A couple of those are a joke. 73 for a par 71 is on the list of most difficult list? lol

 

Course rating reflects the difficulty for a scratch golfer. So you should also look at slope.

 

Sawgrass: 155

Ocean Course: 153

Bethpage: 148

Pebble: 145

 

BTW, the US Open rating for Pebble is 75.5

 

No I shouldn't. I'm a 2 handicap. The course rating is much more accurate than slope for me. And in regard to Pebble's rating, that's fine, but do you think the Ocean Course was rated when they had the PGA Championship there in 2011? Or Bethpage when the Open has been there? Nope. So you can't compare Pebble's rating for the Open vs the other venues which are rated when they are setup normally.

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