Rick Shiels 5 years driver test concern

[KjBowen]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn’t the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

[Jc0]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn't the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

 

COR is only part of it (ball speed). Launch optimization (spin and launch angle) is also a big selling point of new drivers. Companies keep claiming their newest one is longer so he was testing that.

[hammy83]

I'll start of by saying I love Rick and what he does. With that said, his tests are to be used as a guide. They are basically good for him only. Its the same with all his club reviews, use them as a guide.

 

But man would I ever love to be paid to test clubs and golf.

[xjohnx]

I actually agree that this should be part of a comparison but, I would think that trying to hit consistent mishits that would even remotely compare forgiveness in any relative and comparable way would be next to impossible.

 

Probably even harder than me trying to hit the middle.

[Pigems]

I dunno about you guys but I plan to hit the Center of the face, every time(not claiming that I actually accomplish that). I don’t care what the ball does off the toe/heel when it comes to reviews. Plus not many people could purposely hit heel/toe consistently enough to do the test he did. I want Center strike comparisons not miss hit comparisons.

[Your-away!]

Why would you want to know how forgiving a club is when Rick Shiels mishits it??

 

You're miss hits will undoubtedly be completely different.

[KjBowen]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn't the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

 

COR is only part of it (ball speed). Launch optimization (spin and launch angle) is also a big selling point of new drivers. Companies keep claiming their newest one is longer so he was testing that.

 

So wait..

 

Same COR

Same shaft

Same loft

Same swing

Same ball

All hit dead center

 

And you think there will be a difference?

[DeCuchi]

It’s been my complaint with the online reviews as well. Crossfield drives me nuts with the whole strike is king thing. Yea, no kidding! But I guess when it comes to most golfers they aren’t the gear nerds that we are, and that needs to be repeated over and over. However, I’d like to see them compare data of different types of bad strikes as well as good strikes. I’d like to know that driver A seems to perform better than driver B on toe shots or low off the face. Seems to me it wouldn’t take much to gather 6 shots from each and analyze the data. Then again I’m not the one doing it, so maybe I’m over simplifying it.

[rocketmutt]

Maybe have his high/ mid capper Rob do some tests as well

[xjohnx]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn't the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

 

COR is only part of it (ball speed). Launch optimization (spin and launch angle) is also a big selling point of new drivers. Companies keep claiming their newest one is longer so he was testing that.

 

So wait..

 

Same COR

Same shaft

Same loft

Same swing

Same ball

All hit dead center

 

And you think there will be a difference?

 

Based on everything driver head technology is about today, there SHOULD be a difference. That's the whole point of this test in the first place. Not everyone is going to see that difference but, not dissimilar to the iron loft argument these days, one would argue that CG is the most important part of the design these days. If everything you stated above is the same, an change or adjustability to CG should produce differences in ball flight. Now whether those differences in flight contribute to significant distance gains to any one particular golfer, that is the argument that we should be having. R&D isn't fake, it isn't snake oil. The golfer is the variable in every case. You, me, the next guy. When an OEM produces one driver that's the answer to EVERY golfer's problems, wake me up.

[MBBG]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn't the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

 

COR is only part of it (ball speed). Launch optimization (spin and launch angle) is also a big selling point of new drivers. Companies keep claiming their newest one is longer so he was testing that.

 

So wait..

 

Same COR

Same shaft

Same loft

Same swing

Same ball

All hit dead center

 

And you think there will be a difference?

 

Yes, there are differences because those variables you listed aren’t the only relevant variables.

[gvogel]

I thought that it was interesting when he mentioned that the Titleist 915 hit more fairways than the others on that test. Maybe that's why Spieth still plays his.

[lspky_muskie]

6 balls is far too small of a sample size to determine anything. It's interesting content, but there isn't much real value to the data.

[bluedot]

I've been sort of amazed (but only sort of...) by the reaction to these videos. If you had asked the question "What results will an expert player get on his five best shots out of ten with nearly identical setups of drivers made by the same manufacturer over the last five years?", I think the obvious answer would have been that the results would be remarkably similar. Which, in fact, seems to be the case. But that's about all the videos show, isn't it? Nothing about off-center strikes. Nothing about different shafts and/or different lofts. Nothing about dispersion. Nothing about face angle/loft changes. In other words, these aren't even videos that show that Shiels himself is using the best setup (though he almost certainly is, of course), much less the differences that can be gained or lost by changing components or setups.

 

The videos are interesting, and instructive about chasing the newest shiny thing for distance gains, but that they are mistaken here as commentaries on whether or not it matters what driver you have is a gross misinterpretation.

[bluedot]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn't the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

 

COR is only part of it (ball speed). Launch optimization (spin and launch angle) is also a big selling point of new drivers. Companies keep claiming their newest one is longer so he was testing that.

 

So wait..

 

Same COR

Same shaft

Same loft

Same swing

Same ball

All hit dead center

 

And you think there will be a difference?

 

Based on everything driver head technology is about today, there SHOULD be a difference. That's the whole point of this test in the first place. Not everyone is going to see that difference but, not dissimilar to the iron loft argument these days, one would argue that CG is the most important part of the design these days. If everything you stated above is the same, an change or adjustability to CG should produce differences in ball flight. Now whether those differences in flight contribute to significant distance gains to any one particular golfer, that is the argument that we should be having. R&D isn't fake, it isn't snake oil. The golfer is the variable in every case. You, me, the next guy. When an OEM produces one driver that's the answer to EVERY golfer's problems, wake me up.

 

There is nothing in the videos that says that there are NOT differences!

 

Shiels is only looking at his best strikes, and with the same setup, right? So lots of available technology in newer drivers just doesn't get looked at in this instance. At all...

[juststeve]

Perhaps what is needed is some machine testing so differences in strike can be ruled out. That would also present an opportunity to test forgiveness on heal strikes, toe strike, strikes low on the face, etc.While I try to hit the ball off the center of the club face every time I know I don't do that. What I am interest in therefore is a drivers performance, distance and dispersion, on the range of strikes I am likely to experience during a round of golf.

 

Steve

[Laznasty]

I'd rather see TollBros do this test, it'd be much more thorough.

[SoCalTitleist]

No matter who does the test people are going to complain .

[Milfordlefty]

Winter is coming. Since my golf season is basically at an end, what better way to spend the time until spring watching videos of a guy hitting shots with all the tech stuff inside a nice warm hitting bay. I wonder if Rick could compare fairway woods or hybrids as long as the OEM clubs are not glued heads (in order to use the same shaft)? I am assuming Cobra and Mizuno are next?

[xjohnx]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn't the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

 

COR is only part of it (ball speed). Launch optimization (spin and launch angle) is also a big selling point of new drivers. Companies keep claiming their newest one is longer so he was testing that.

 

So wait..

 

Same COR

Same shaft

Same loft

Same swing

Same ball

All hit dead center

 

And you think there will be a difference?

 

Based on everything driver head technology is about today, there SHOULD be a difference. That's the whole point of this test in the first place. Not everyone is going to see that difference but, not dissimilar to the iron loft argument these days, one would argue that CG is the most important part of the design these days. If everything you stated above is the same, an change or adjustability to CG should produce differences in ball flight. Now whether those differences in flight contribute to significant distance gains to any one particular golfer, that is the argument that we should be having. R&D isn't fake, it isn't snake oil. The golfer is the variable in every case. You, me, the next guy. When an OEM produces one driver that's the answer to EVERY golfer's problems, wake me up.

 

There is nothing in the videos that says that there are NOT differences!

 

Shiels is only looking at his best strikes, and with the same setup, right? So lots of available technology in newer drivers just doesn't get looked at in this instance. At all...

 

I understand testing everything with the same shaft for consistency but, testing all drivers in neutral setting isn't really going to tell us much at all. With COR maxed, the technology these drivers bring is based on fitting the golfer to the proper ball flight based on data. I understand the average Joe doesn't even understand it all but, tests done like this are almost a slap in the face to every R&D team out there.

[Jc0]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn't the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

 

COR is only part of it (ball speed). Launch optimization (spin and launch angle) is also a big selling point of new drivers. Companies keep claiming their newest one is longer so he was testing that.

 

So wait..

 

Same COR

Same shaft

Same loft

Same swing

Same ball

All hit dead center

 

And you think there will be a difference?

 

Of course there will be a difference. Even if all those are the same, one head could still produce a 8* launch with 3000 spin and another could produce a 12* launch with 1900 spin.

[KjBowen]

First off.. I love Rick and I use his reviews for everything

 

My concern is he is using basically perfect strikes

Isn't the technology more for off center hits?

Since the COR has been maxed for years center strikes should be exactly what his data shows . I think most of us realize a hit in the center with most modern drivers will yield the same results

 

I would like to see a test like this but use heel, toe hits or even low or high on face hits

 

Seems it would better support new technology

 

COR is only part of it (ball speed). Launch optimization (spin and launch angle) is also a big selling point of new drivers. Companies keep claiming their newest one is longer so he was testing that.

 

So wait..

 

Same COR

Same shaft

Same loft

Same swing

Same ball

All hit dead center

 

And you think there will be a difference?

 

Of course there will be a difference. Even if all those are the same, one head could still produce a 8* launch with 3000 spin and another could produce a 12* launch with 1900 spin.

So wait lol

 

Of course there will be a difference but all his videos showed there really wasn’t?

I’m confused

[tannyhoban]

Yeah sure guys, plan your whole process around mistakes. Good gawd.

[KjBowen]

Yeah sure guys, plan your whole process around mistakes. Good gawd.

So I guess what that logic..

 

We all should have 300cc drivers

No hybrids and 1 iron thru PW and blades!

No lob wedge just a sand wedge

And a bullseye putter -

 

All the least forgiving

[Exactice808]

Hey Kj, I actually see where you are coming from the hard part are there are a couple of points where its apples vs oranges.

 

First,

 

1) COR is not maxed out =) COR is currently around .830. meaning we still "could go" up .17 to "Max out" to 1.0. or beyond I guess?

2) COR is not the official standard measurement, CT or , Characteristics of Time. this is at the legal limit of 257 or 239 +/-18ms

 

 

Ok got that out of the way. (hehe sorry I had to)

 

I think the test was efficient in its simplicity. Meaning 10 total strikes 5 best strikes, 5 years worth of driver itterations.... basically showed NOT much difference of pretty optimal strikes.

 

No one wants to see a toe or heel strike go 180 yards and 50 yards right or left as no one wants to admit that is how they strike the ball. A bad strike is a bad strike. Sure we could measure off centered strikes, but the inconsistencies to map any variable would be too large.... toe strike high on the face low on the face, left or cut, side spin, back spin.... way too much data for anyone to really care about =)

 

 

Secondly. I do think if we dive into the number itself, it DOES in fact show difference in actual club iterations. 1 noticeable aspect is spin. If we take the sample sizes from all manufacturers there are X clubs that vary in spin from 3000-2000 there just might be one type of club, that someone needs a reduction or increase of spin.

 

Lastly, then there is the comparison of CG..... smaller 430cc head vs 460 cc head, forward CG vs rear CG. Higher MOI vs Lower MOI.

 

 

its evident, and per GolfWRX we know the SLDR was the lowest spinning, YET hardest to be consistent, due to CG design and lack of MOI. M2... being predictable as well. But the Surprises I would assume would be some of the performances by the Older Clubs like the R1, 910 D2, Xhot etc.

 

 

So again... I guess you can take away what you want from his "limited" sample size. But all in all I think it was good to edify, that strike for strike $599 per driver ever year is well...... $599 per driver every year... yikes!!!

[PowderedToastMan]

Not to bash Rick, but he doesn’t hit the sweet spot with great consistency. His strike locations, particularly on his iron reviews, are all over.

[DDG61]

Not to bash Rick, but he doesnt hit the sweet spot with great consistency. His strike locations, particularly on his iron reviews, are all over.

 

Have you watched these tests? His strikes can be covered with a Quarter at worst from what I've seen.

[bladehunter]

I dunno about you guys but I plan to hit the Center of the face, every time(not claiming that I actually accomplish that). I don't care what the ball does off the toe/heel when it comes to reviews. Plus not many people could purposely hit heel/toe consistently enough to do the test he did. I want Center strike comparisons not miss hit comparisons.

 

could not agree more.... afterall if you consistantly miss in one spot.. its either a poor fit, or you should adjust to get that strike to the center.... i once knew a guy who pounded the toe area off a set of mp33s..... i mean dime sized spots on the edge of the scoring lines.... why he didnt stand an inch closer to the ball and gain 10 yards is beyond me...his swing was obviously repeatable....

[golfing_penguin]

I like watching it, but don't think he's the best sampler of drivers. Hitting 50% of a 40 yard fairway is pretty...loose, even for club-teaching standards

[tannyhoban]

Yeah sure guys, plan your whole process around mistakes. Good gawd.

So I guess what that logic..

 

We all should have 300cc drivers

No hybrids and 1 iron thru PW and blades!

No lob wedge just a sand wedge

And a bullseye putter -

 

All the least forgiving

 

 

Pretzel logic. Buy wedges based on best shankability?