Wilson betrayal and Titleist blasphemy

[S.william]

So. Here we are. Confession time. Forgive me father for I have sinned... How? Oh, right, well see there's this guy, my best friend, really, and we play the sacred game together. I know everyone has their own interpretation of the Word when it comes to equipment , but you know as well as I do that certain brands lend to false pride and boasting in their adherents. You'd look sideways at a taylormade zealot in our midst, dont con me. Well my friend, he's a titleist nut. Ball, hat, woods, irons, the works. He is not boastful per say, but insists on titleist everything all the time. Plays a prov1x even though he doesn't have the speed for it, adored his dci , and won't play, try, or consider anything else to be worthy of his golf game. I have tried for many, many outings to not sway, but open his mind and horizons to other equipment and things that might serve him better, allow him to have a more rounded and expert understanding of all of the games facets. My stiff necked brother has not given an inch.

 

Recently though, while his been off defending freedom, the true owner of his bag and set, the father of one of his old flames, requested to have it all back. My friend, upstanding fellow that he is complied and is now without a set of weapons. He gets back soon, too, and had planned on a brand new set of titleists, with a price tag well north of 1500 dollars. Now, father, a man may use his money as he will, of course, but this has always sounded like unnecessary elitism to me, and i want to give him another way, so...

 

I picked up a neglected set of titleist tour model blades, 1-pw they were rough, but as a labor of love I have restored the clubheads and have been fiddling with various shafts. But, its difficult to properly fit someone not front of you hting balls , telling you how things feel, etc, so really I've been practicing my skills as an iron maker.

 

I've tried rifles, and all the dgs r-x, and tested them to make sure of my workmanship.they have always seemed nice enough, though no equal to my mighty Wilson fg- 17s, of course, but nice.

 

Then I put the x-100 shafts in them and tried them out at a local driving range, and Thats where it all started. I dont know how to say this, but dear god in heaven, they are so beautiful, both to look at and to play. Longer than my treasured,staffs, and extremely confidence inspiring , as well and very very accurate. He already knows im making them, but now, I dont want to give them to him. I,dont know what to do father, a duplicate set, giving him these so he can largely not play them , but I am taught what I should learn. Or take the easy way out and just decide not to deliver them to him . I need guidance, father, help me, because I dont want to be a titleist ******, or a bad friend, and they're starting to get bag chatter....

[birly-shirly]

All your friend wants is heads stamped titleist. And if he hasn't got the oomph for a prov1x, does he need an x flex shaft?

Get the shafts you like into your fg17s and build up the titleist with the shafts you pull. Job's a good'un.

[Blade Junkie]

Just let him spend his $1500 on a set of AP2s ... and then beat him handily with your Tour Models :)

[raggal62]

A few hail Mary's should do the trick.

[S.william]

Honestly junkie, I could beat this particular friend with garden implements and a broomstick, but Thats beside the point, lol.

 

Birly, I always thought shaft flex was more about transition than speed, I very well may be wrong, and often am lol. I dont swing hard enough for a prov1x, but can swing the x flex. And really its a moot point, the xs are just what made me stop wanting to give the clubs to him lol, made them come alive for me. I probably should let him just buy the ap2s, but I still have to be seen with him

[augustgolf]

Honestly junkie, I could beat this particular friend with garden implements and a broomstick, but Thats beside the point, lol.

 

Birly, I always thought shaft flex was more about transition than speed, I very well may be wrong, and often am lol. I dont swing hard enough for a prov1x, but can swing the x flex. And really its a moot point, the xs are just what made me stop wanting to give the clubs to him lol, made them come alive for me. I probably should let him just buy the ap2s, but I still have to be seen with him

 

Is zat u, Simon???

[cardoustie]

I say custom paint fill them to your liking and stamp your name on for good measure

 

Find him some old dci's or similar

 

Ps I played those irons in the late 80's

[S.william]

It is indeed Augie! Accept no substitutes!

 

He came from a set of dci, wanted to broaden his horizons, and i kind of already told him about them. But, thanks to augustgolf, my prayers have been answered and my problems solved. Thank the flying spaghetti monster.

 

Anyone else ever had a similar dilemma? Making something as a gift but loving it yourself?

[EmperorPenguin]

Ah, the venerable Titleist Tour Model irons. You have indeed been enlightened into the reality that there is a gospel other than your "mighty" FG-17's. I will consider myself here an expert on your situation because I, too, once owned for my first ever purchase of golf clubs a used set of FG-17's (1-SW) for $100 at a local discount store. Loved those clubs, but looking back I was a bit naive at the time as I tried other blades.

 

Before I begin, I would first like to draw your attention to this thread which I find perhaps the best Tour Model irons. Perhaps these are the Tour Models you mention in the start of this thread are the culprits straying you away from your beloved FG-17's? They are very good blades, way ahead of their time when they were produced, and I would dare to say that these clubs contend with even today's blades.

 

If you want further contenders to your FG-17's, I suggest you consider the Golden Ram Vibration Matched Tour Grind irons (1982) or the model immediately before that. I attached the pictures of my venerable clubs that may tempt you to look into them. If Tour players loved them, there is a reason why.

 

You may also consider other blades as well. Richard swears by Mizuno MP-14's as the blades ever, though I do not like the offset on them. The Tour Models and Golden Rams all pictured in this post all have no offset. For me, the best blades are the Golden Rams and the '91-'96 Titleist Tour Model.

[smorg]

I had my sins forgiven by the patron saint Goodwill, who took pity and bestowed complete sets of FG-17', Titleist Tour Model irons and, a set of Tour Model woods upon me. My penance was to repeat "I'm supporting the GW mission" three times and place $34 in the offering plate.

[S.william]

Ah, the venerable Titleist Tour Model irons. You have indeed been enlightened into the reality that there is a gospel other than your "mighty" FG-17's. I will consider myself here an expert on your situation because I, too, once owned for my first ever purchase of golf clubs a used set of FG-17's (1-SW) for $100 at a local discount store. Loved those clubs, but looking back I was a bit naive at the time as I tried other blades.

 

Before I begin, I would first like to draw your attention to this thread which I find perhaps the best Tour Model irons. Perhaps these are the Tour Models you mention in the start of this thread are the culprits straying you away from your beloved FG-17's? They are very good blades, way ahead of their time when they were produced, and I would dare to say that these clubs contend with even today's blades.

 

If you want further contenders to your FG-17's, I suggest you consider the Golden Ram Vibration Matched Tour Grind irons (1982) or the model immediately before that. I attached the pictures of my venerable clubs that may tempt you to look into them. If Tour players loved them, there is a reason why.

 

You may also consider other blades as well. Richard swears by Mizuno MP-14's as the blades ever, though I do not like the offset on them. The Tour Models and Golden Rams all pictured in this post all have no offset. For me, the best blades are the Golden Rams and the '91-'96 Titleist Tour Model.

 

Emperor, we all have our favorite translation, and indeed, some are better than others. However the fg-17s are indeed Mighty, no quotation marks needed.I lament that they were your first purchase, as no first time driver can really appreciate a Rolls Royce. The titleists with their original shafts I found thin and "slappy" compared to the precision hammer that are the fg-17s, and greatly improved by a modern shaft. At this level of conversation however, it truly is taste rather than quantifiable data that separates a gentleman's preference. And taste, well educated, is above reproach. I will include a partial resume of my education , sir, so you do not think I use Mighty, or any of the other eloquent descriptors I could apply to the fg-17s in vain.

 

61.

[kaboboom]

This topic is timely for me personally, as I very recently acquired a full set of W/S Staff Tour models (1-PW and woods), and they have shelved a set of FG 17s almost simply because its missing the 5 iron. I see little difference between the two, which suggests I could augment one with the other temporarily, but gaps keep the general quest alive. But my first real set of "modern" irons were Titleist Box Blades, acquired and later exchanged at the same play-it-again store for a set of Olimar Forged, 1-SW, one inch over with X-100s. (Tiger hype helped the trade). I found the Titleist "tinny", though I now like "thin and slappy" better as there is both appearance and motion in that critique. The common feature of the two W/S sets and the Olimars is the lower bulge, and for me, that seems critical. I am just beginning to gravitate to playing one primary set, though may never get there. But if I were attempting to transition a friend to blades, I'd likely offer up my Hogan PCs (selfishly), as the Hogan mystique imparts an aura in and of itself, and I can't hit them nearly as well as the others mentioned.

[NRJyzr]

It is indeed Augie! Accept no substitutes!

 

He came from a set of dci, wanted to broaden his horizons, and i kind of already told him about them. But, thanks to augustgolf, my prayers have been answered and my problems solved. Thank the flying spaghetti monster.

 

Anyone else ever had a similar dilemma? Making something as a gift but loving it yourself?

 

I never thought I'd see that particular reference in this portion of WRX....

 

[NRJyzr]

Oh, and I feel obliged to mention you should all avoid succumbing to the Dark Side (Titleist) LOL

 

Love seeing a Golden Ram reference in this thread. Warms my heart...

[scomac2002]

Oh, and I feel obliged to mention you should all avoid succumbing to the Dark Side (Titleist) LOL

 

Love seeing a Golden Ram reference in this thread. Warms my heart...

 

And here I though Taylormade was the Dark Side! :huh:

 

(NRJyzr's not-so-young patawan learner)

[NRJyzr]

Yep, it's time for a barely relevant threadjack...

 

Sco, for years I avoided TaylorMade. I'd bought a used R510 driver in the mid 2000s, it was a decent club but at 330cc, I moved up to something bigger, and never gave them another look. Noticed all the buzz about MWT, thought it silly, continued on without notice.

 

Then something occurred to me a couple years ago... I'd largely not thought about it because I didn't have much interest in TM, but should have realized earlier. You could use the MWT to create heavier clubheads, and more easily go to a shorter driver club length, without worrying about trying to stuff something inside the clubhead, which is somewhat less reversible. (there's always lead tape, of course)

 

They were also very active in the plug and play adjustable clubs. So much easier to toss a new shaft in a club with a wrench, than having to pull the old, epoxy the new...

 

Which is how I'm now testing a relatively modern driver at 43½", by merely adding heavier weights to the MWT ports.

 

A lot of folks complain about TM product cycles, and I used to scoff at them myself, but they *did* help save us from the $500 driver with cheap stock shaft in the early 2000s. It was already in 1995 that a stock shafted Great Big Bertha was $500, that's roughly $800 in 2017 dollars. Imagine buying a driver today for $800 and getting only a cheap $5 stock shaft...

 

Boil that all together and I've come to think TM isn't so bad anymore. LOL

 

Sorry to everyone for the derailing

[birly-shirly]

This topic is timely for me personally, as I very recently acquired a full set of W/S Staff Tour models (1-PW and woods), and they have shelved a set of FG 17s almost simply because its missing the 5 iron. I see little difference between the two, which suggests I could augment one with the other temporarily, but gaps keep the general quest alive. But my first real set of "modern" irons were Titleist Box Blades, acquired and later exchanged at the same play-it-again store for a set of Olimar Forged, 1-SW, one inch over with X-100s. (Tiger hype helped the trade). I found the Titleist "tinny", though I now like "thin and slappy" better as there is both appearance and motion in that critique. The common feature of the two W/S sets and the Olimars is the lower bulge, and for me, that seems critical. I am just beginning to gravitate to playing one primary set, though may never get there. But if I were attempting to transition a friend to blades, I'd likely offer up my Hogan PCs (selfishly), as the Hogan mystique imparts an aura in and of itself, and I can't hit them nearly as well as the others mentioned.

 

Ditto. My first set of quality blades (if NRJyzr will permit me that description ;) ) were heavily used, mid-80s Titleist Tour Models. Since then, various sets of Hogans, Macs and Wilsons have taken precedence. Can't say I have felt much inclination to go back to the Titleists, although there's almost nothing else that I've bought in the years since that I can bring myself to relinquish in order to free up some much needed closet space.

Most recent acquisition, and very impressive, were Fg17s - also missing a 5i! 5 spot was plugged via ebay, but still needs a matching shaft to slot into the rest of the set. Great wedges!

[birly-shirly]

Yep, it's time for a barely relevant threadjack...

 

Sco, for years I avoided TaylorMade. I'd bought a used R510 driver in the mid 2000s, it was a decent club but at 330cc, I moved up to something bigger, and never gave them another look. Noticed all the buzz about MWT, thought it silly, continued on without notice.

 

Then something occurred to me a couple years ago... I'd largely not thought about it because I didn't have much interest in TM, but should have realized earlier. You could use the MWT to create heavier clubheads, and more easily go to a shorter driver club length, without worrying about trying to stuff something inside the clubhead, which is somewhat less reversible. (there's always lead tape, of course)

 

They were also very active in the plug and play adjustable clubs. So much easier to toss a new shaft in a club with a wrench, than having to pull the old, epoxy the new...

 

Which is how I'm now testing a relatively modern driver at 43½", by merely adding heavier weights to the MWT ports.

 

A lot of folks complain about TM product cycles, and I used to scoff at them myself, but they *did* help save us from the $500 driver with cheap stock shaft in the early 2000s. It was already in 1995 that a stock shafted Great Big Bertha was $500, that's roughly $800 in 2017 dollars. Imagine buying a driver today for $800 and getting only a cheap $5 stock shaft...

 

Boil that all together and I've come to think TM isn't so bad anymore. LOL

 

Sorry to everyone for the derailing

 

Agree on pretty much all points. I'm actually only a putter away from being able to assemble a scandalously all-TM bag which might even meet with this forum's approval. R1 is actually heavy enough that it would probably swingweight around D4 if I were to cut it down to 44" without adding any additional weight. V steels are legit, and the original RAC mbs are proper blades with just a silly-shaped muscle - but then there's an argument that all muscle shapes are silly, or at least frivolous, and my Fg49s would tend to endorse that, having practically none.

 

Besides, the Wilson that made Fg17s was pretty much ye olden daye equivalent of modern TM. There, I've said it...

[S.william]

No apologies necessary, my good man. Taylormade does indeed make a fine product, I agree, hardly anyone that stays in business these days can afford to,do otherwise. My problem with them, and usually those that fly their flag, is in their marketing strategies. I know that deep down, every manufacturer cares about their bottom line above all else, but no one makes it quite so obvious as Taylormade. They are the Mercedes of golf. High price tag, new "groundbreaking" features every single year, up to the minute flash and glamour. They then proceed to depreciate faster than the laws of gravity should allow. Both Mercedes and Taylormade generally appeal to a demographic I would not want to belong to even if it were within my means to do so, people that love that new car smell, and the money to obtain it is immaterial to them. I know there are exceptions , but this has been my personal finding. I will also say that almost nothing in golf gives me greater pleasure than driving one past someones new TM driver with my old strata-bloc, or sticking a 6 iron inside their 8 from the same distance. Although being forced to listen to the resultant laments about shoddy turf, malfunctioning range finders, and how they haven't got a shaft with exactly the right torque specs yet I could do without. No manufacturer is the devil, they all get us out playing the sacred game, and all have their merits, I prefer Wilson and mizuno irons, tour edge makes a hell of a fairway wood and putters are as individual as fingerprints.at the end of the day, no matter your camp, I dont think jack would have fewer or more majors to his name if he had played Spalding, or Wilson as opposed to McGregor, skill is skill .

 

But still, 61

[scomac2002]

Yep, it's time for a barely relevant threadjack...

 

Sco, for years I avoided TaylorMade. I'd bought a used R510 driver in the mid 2000s, it was a decent club but at 330cc, I moved up to something bigger, and never gave them another look. Noticed all the buzz about MWT, thought it silly, continued on without notice.

 

Then something occurred to me a couple years ago... I'd largely not thought about it because I didn't have much interest in TM, but should have realized earlier. You could use the MWT to create heavier clubheads, and more easily go to a shorter driver club length, without worrying about trying to stuff something inside the clubhead, which is somewhat less reversible. (there's always lead tape, of course)

 

They were also very active in the plug and play adjustable clubs. So much easier to toss a new shaft in a club with a wrench, than having to pull the old, epoxy the new...

 

Which is how I'm now testing a relatively modern driver at 43½", by merely adding heavier weights to the MWT ports.

 

A lot of folks complain about TM product cycles, and I used to scoff at them myself, but they *did* help save us from the $500 driver with cheap stock shaft in the early 2000s. It was already in 1995 that a stock shafted Great Big Bertha was $500, that's roughly $800 in 2017 dollars. Imagine buying a driver today for $800 and getting only a cheap $5 stock shaft...

 

Boil that all together and I've come to think TM isn't so bad anymore. LOL

 

Sorry to everyone for the derailing

 

Agree on pretty much all points. I'm actually only a putter away from being able to assemble a scandalously all-TM bag which might even meet with this forum's approval. R1 is actually heavy enough that it would probably swingweight around D4 if I were to cut it down to 44" without adding any additional weight. V steels are legit, and the original RAC mbs are proper blades with just a silly-shaped muscle - but then there's an argument that all muscle shapes are silly, or at least frivolous, and my Fg49s would tend to endorse that, having practically none.

 

Besides, the Wilson that made Fg17s was pretty much ye olden daye equivalent of modern TM. There, I've said it...

 

I could help you out on the putter front b-s, if that was something you were set on doing. I have a Rossa Tourismo in rotation in my Set for All Seasons.

 

As you can see from my signature, I have had a dalliance with the Dark Side for about as long as I have played, I just don't advertise it, hiding the clubs behind generic headcovers. I quite liked the product they put out in the 2000's. Can't say the same about the new stuff which is always too long, too light and too upright!

[birly-shirly]

I appreciate your kind offer scomac but my putter is probably the one rock of stability in my golfing life, battered by the surrounding choppy seas of ever changing woods and irons.

 

If nothing else, my faithfully mediocre putting reassures me that swapping out the rest of my clubs is probably not doing too much damage.

[BIG STU]

Yep, it's time for a barely relevant threadjack...

 

Sco, for years I avoided TaylorMade. I'd bought a used R510 driver in the mid 2000s, it was a decent club but at 330cc, I moved up to something bigger, and never gave them another look. Noticed all the buzz about MWT, thought it silly, continued on without notice.

 

Then something occurred to me a couple years ago... I'd largely not thought about it because I didn't have much interest in TM, but should have realized earlier. You could use the MWT to create heavier clubheads, and more easily go to a shorter driver club length, without worrying about trying to stuff something inside the clubhead, which is somewhat less reversible. (there's always lead tape, of course)

 

They were also very active in the plug and play adjustable clubs. So much easier to toss a new shaft in a club with a wrench, than having to pull the old, epoxy the new...

 

Which is how I'm now testing a relatively modern driver at 43½", by merely adding heavier weights to the MWT ports.

 

A lot of folks complain about TM product cycles, and I used to scoff at them myself, but they *did* help save us from the $500 driver with cheap stock shaft in the early 2000s. It was already in 1995 that a stock shafted Great Big Bertha was $500, that's roughly $800 in 2017 dollars. Imagine buying a driver today for $800 and getting only a cheap $5 stock shaft...

 

Boil that all together and I've come to think TM isn't so bad anymore. LOL

 

Sorry to everyone for the derailing

ROTFLMAO! 95? BB? I was still hitting persimmon then and playing comp with persimmon. And graphite then was no where like it is today. I could rope hook ANY metal graphite shafted club off the planet. Back then I was still as long with the persimmon as most guys with the then modern metal and graphite shafted drivers.

[BIG STU]

Yep, it's time for a barely relevant threadjack...

 

Sco, for years I avoided TaylorMade. I'd bought a used R510 driver in the mid 2000s, it was a decent club but at 330cc, I moved up to something bigger, and never gave them another look. Noticed all the buzz about MWT, thought it silly, continued on without notice.

 

Then something occurred to me a couple years ago... I'd largely not thought about it because I didn't have much interest in TM, but should have realized earlier. You could use the MWT to create heavier clubheads, and more easily go to a shorter driver club length, without worrying about trying to stuff something inside the clubhead, which is somewhat less reversible. (there's always lead tape, of course)

 

They were also very active in the plug and play adjustable clubs. So much easier to toss a new shaft in a club with a wrench, than having to pull the old, epoxy the new...

 

Which is how I'm now testing a relatively modern driver at 43½", by merely adding heavier weights to the MWT ports.

 

A lot of folks complain about TM product cycles, and I used to scoff at them myself, but they *did* help save us from the $500 driver with cheap stock shaft in the early 2000s. It was already in 1995 that a stock shafted Great Big Bertha was $500, that's roughly $800 in 2017 dollars. Imagine buying a driver today for $800 and getting only a cheap $5 stock shaft...

 

Boil that all together and I've come to think TM isn't so bad anymore. LOL

 

Sorry to everyone for the derailing

If you look in my signature you will see I have an old TM Rescue in my bag. It even has a "stock" shaft but it hits good for me and the frequency checks out darn close to my specs. I have about 8 grams of lead tape square in the toe to prevent the dreaded hook. Works pretty good for me in fact I hit it further and better than I do my 18* 5 wood. I was and still am a big V-Steel fan I carried a VS 7 wood for 10 years and also own a VS 9 and 5 wood.

[NRJyzr]

Back then I was still as long with the persimmon as most guys with the then modern metal and graphite shafted drivers.

 

For the hell of it, I was surfing old PGA Tour driving stats. I wasnt looking for anything, but happened to notice something interesting. DL3's driving distance was fairly static from the 80s up thru 2000, spanning his persimmon use to his switch to Ti drivers.

 

How about that?

 

Even more interesting, his distance in 2002 dropped (albeit only 3 yds), in spite of his switch to the Pro V1.

[jonnygrouville]

Didn't realise Titleist has the darkside. I'd play some square toes.

 

Or those old Taylor Made Tour Preferred irons.

 

I don't appear to have any principles when it comes to the brand of clubs. Just the age.

 

 

[deetsal]

Taylor made makes some great hybrids.

 

Did he say "hybrids"!!!!!! Say it ain't so!!!!!!!

[BIG STU]

Taylor made makes some great hybrids.

 

Did he say "hybrids"!!!!!! Say it ain't so!!!!!!!

Yeah I said it--- Funny how in an indirect matter you go back to stuff--- Back in the day I carried a old H&B 4 wood and a Northwestern 6 wood but at the same time carried and hit either a 985 custom 1 iron or a Ping Karsten 1 1 iron. Some folks think I have a screw loose in what I carry now on the top end with the 19* and 22* hybrids and a 1999 Forged Hogan Apex 2 iron. Look back just a few years on my first WITB you will see I am bagging V-Steel 7&9 woods. BTW I still have both of those woods when the hybrids go South. I have always carried what the "mainstream" considers odd. I can remember back in the day coming down here to the beach and not bagging any fairway woods because the grass was so lush on the fairways here that you could hit a 10.5* Penna driver out of the fairway or a 1 iron.

[deetsal]

Taylor made makes some great hybrids.

 

Did he say "hybrids"!!!!!! Say it ain't so!!!!!!!

Yeah I said it--- Funny how in an indirect matter you go back to stuff--- Back in the day I carried a old H&B 4 wood and a Northwestern 6 wood but at the same time carried and hit either a 985 custom 1 iron or a Ping Karsten 1 1 iron. Some folks think I have a screw loose in what I carry now on the top end with the 19* and 22* hybrids and a 1999 Forged Hogan Apex 2 iron. Look back just a few years on my first WITB you will see I am bagging V-Steel 7&9 woods. BTW I still have both of those woods when the hybrids go South. I have always carried what the "mainstream" considers odd. I can remember back in the day coming down here to the beach and not bagging any fairway woods because the grass was so lush on the fairways here that you could hit a 10.5* Penna driver out of the fairway or a 1 iron.

Nice.