Tom Fazio’s Best Courses

[jerebear21]

shadow creek is the prime example of his excess

[AppAlum]

I haven't played Common Ground but I think the exact opposite wrt to Doak courses - they're fun but hardly strategic.

 

Doak and Fazio are sometimes juxtaposed as "opposite" kinds of designers, but I actually think they're philosophically very aligned. Both have focused their work on high-end courses that deliver a lot of "fun" for their players...they just have different target profiles in mind. Doak's profile golfer is the wirey old guy you see pushing his cart around your local muni every morning at sunrise. Every morning. Fazio's profile golfer is the one cruising around in a custom cart, using a custom-made cigar holder to hold his stogie on the green. But fundamentally, both guys are building courses that are fun and keep their player entertained. They're not "championship" course builders - and I don't think they want to be.

 

I get where your going but I’ve never played a Fazio that had the demographic you described, many of the ones I’ve played are walking only.

[stevopagolf]

I have played a dozen of Fazio designs over the years.

 

The Ridge

Trump Philly and Bedminster

Hartefeld National

Emerald Dunes

World Woods PB and Rolling Oaks

Osprey Point

Shadow Creek

Wild Dunes

White Columns

PGA Golf Club

 

I enjoyed all of them. I think today World Woods is one of the best values you can get, wasn't so when it opened. All of the Fazio layouts didn't really stand out. Aesthetically they were nice and the conditions were great. Good solid routings. Like I said I enjoyed them

 

Personally, if someone said we were going to play a Tillinghast, Raynor, Ross or Flynn design tomorrow I would definitely get more excited than the same said about a Fazio..... though I do want to play Galloway National....

[raynorfan1]

I get where your going but I've never played a Fazio that had the demographic you described, many of the ones I've played are walking only.

 

Interesting. I've played a bunch and can't name a single one that was walking only. Butler National, maybe?

[DoubleorQuits]

I get where your going but I've never played a Fazio that had the demographic you described, many of the ones I've played are walking only.

 

Interesting. I've played a bunch and can't name a single one that was walking only. Butler National, maybe?

 

Sage Valley

[DoubleorQuits]

shadow creek is the prime example of his excess

 

I bet Steve Wynn got the course he wanted.

[vallygolf]

shadow creek is the prime example of his excess

 

I bet Steve Wynn got the course he wanted.

 

Agreed, while the surgeon is somewhat complicit in excessive plastic surgery debacles, the root cause of the problem is the person requesting the work.

[J_Birdie]

Briggs Ranch in SA is a pretty phenomenal course

[Roadking2003]

shadow creek is the prime example of his excess

 

I bet Steve Wynn got the course he wanted.

 

Agreed, while the surgeon is somewhat complicit in excessive plastic surgery debacles, the root cause of the problem is the person requesting the work.

 

I wasn't aware that there is a problem.

[CCTxGolf]

Reading this thread made me realize what an incredible career he has had. His course count is insane

[Schley]

Fazio has made his niche and done it well, he goes for high profile courses with large budgets and doesn't necessarily work with the land as he sees it, for he has the budget to move things. To compare him to Doak is apples and oranges. I think it takes much more skill and discipline to design like Doak for he let's the land tell him what to create and that is his philosophy if I had to characterize it. He has worked with some great pieces of land for sure (Bandon, Cape Kidnappers, Ballyneal) but you don't find his courses as part of golf resorts or master planned golf course communities, for he doesn't move much land, not because he can't, but because that isn't his philosophy.

 

Here is an analogy. I like pizza, but just cheese. That is Doak. Fazio has some exotic menu with everything custom.

[Roadking2003]

Fazio has made his niche and done it well, he goes for high profile courses with large budgets and doesn't necessarily work with the land as he sees it, for he has the budget to move things. To compare him to Doak is apples and oranges. I think it takes much more skill and discipline to design like Doak for he let's the land tell him what to create and that is his philosophy if I had to characterize it. He has worked with some great pieces of land for sure (Bandon, Cape Kidnappers, Ballyneal) but you don't find his courses as part of golf resorts or master planned golf course communities, for he doesn't move much land, not because he can't, but because that isn't his philosophy.

 

Here is an analogy. I like pizza, but just cheese. That is Doak. Fazio has some exotic menu with everything custom.

 

Any Joe Smo course designer can make a great course out of land like Cape Kidnappers. Doak mostly, if not always, works with a wonderful natural setting. That's much easier than starting with nothing.

[FairwayFred]

Fazio has made his niche and done it well, he goes for high profile courses with large budgets and doesn't necessarily work with the land as he sees it, for he has the budget to move things. To compare him to Doak is apples and oranges. I think it takes much more skill and discipline to design like Doak for he let's the land tell him what to create and that is his philosophy if I had to characterize it. He has worked with some great pieces of land for sure (Bandon, Cape Kidnappers, Ballyneal) but you don't find his courses as part of golf resorts or master planned golf course communities, for he doesn't move much land, not because he can't, but because that isn't his philosophy.

 

Here is an analogy. I like pizza, but just cheese. That is Doak. Fazio has some exotic menu with everything custom.

 

Any Joe Smo course designer can make a great course out of land like Cape Kidnappers. Doak mostly, if not always, works with a wonderful natural setting. That's much easier than starting with nothing.

 

Thats only true if you main criteria for a great course is a great setting. There is alot more to it than that and it's not nearly that simple.

[BNGL]

Fazio has made his niche and done it well, he goes for high profile courses with large budgets and doesn't necessarily work with the land as he sees it, for he has the budget to move things. To compare him to Doak is apples and oranges. I think it takes much more skill and discipline to design like Doak for he let's the land tell him what to create and that is his philosophy if I had to characterize it. He has worked with some great pieces of land for sure (Bandon, Cape Kidnappers, Ballyneal) but you don't find his courses as part of golf resorts or master planned golf course communities, for he doesn't move much land, not because he can't, but because that isn't his philosophy.

 

Here is an analogy. I like pizza, but just cheese. That is Doak. Fazio has some exotic menu with everything custom.

 

Yes lol completely custom, he dredged up enough land to create a 4 hole island during our renovation a few years ago.

[keeponlivin]

I really enjoyed Rams Hill which claims to be Fazio but I believe Faldo came in and did some work recently but for a course out in the middle of nowhere in SoCal this spot was a 1st class design and experience

[toddnt]

I really enjoyed Rams Hill which claims to be Fazio but I believe Faldo came in and did some work recently but for a course out in the middle of nowhere in SoCal this spot was a 1st class design and experience

You finish the round and get the best apple pie anywhere around in Julian, 20 miles away.

[dhc1]

I haven't played Common Ground but I think the exact opposite wrt to Doak courses - they're fun but hardly strategic.

 

Doak and Fazio are sometimes juxtaposed as "opposite" kinds of designers, but I actually think they're philosophically very aligned. Both have focused their work on high-end courses that deliver a lot of "fun" for their players...they just have different target profiles in mind. Doak's profile golfer is the wirey old guy you see pushing his cart around your local muni every morning at sunrise. Every morning. Fazio's profile golfer is the one cruising around in a custom cart, using a custom-made cigar holder to hold his stogie on the green. But fundamentally, both guys are building courses that are fun and keep their player entertained. They're not "championship" course builders - and I don't think they want to be.

 

Here's my take as to the typical golfer Doak/Fazio have in mind:

 

- Doak: nerdy, bogey golfer who can't drive at all but think that they can putt well. prides themselves on being smarter and more cultured than others. didn't get girls until they started working at some white collar profession. Professes to love hoppy beer. More likely to have a beard

- Fazio: jocky low single-digit handicap who likes everything laid out in front of them because they think they are good ball striker. prides themselves on being a better golfer than others. may have peaked socially in high school unless they got a good job. Professes to love expensive wine and scotch. More likely to have no beard

[PoconoGolfer]

Have played Shadow Creek so that is certainly "up there"; a great private course near Cleveland called Sand Ridge is one of the coolest designs I've ever seen - there is one hole with a plethora of bunkers playing uphill, bunkers line both sides of the entire hole BUT when viewed from green to tee, you can not see a single bunker - brilliant! Fazio has a new (very) private design in SC called Congaree that is rumored to be equivalent to Shadow Creek - time will tell.

[scrody17]

I think a sleeper that doesn't get enough credit would be his design of The Golf Club of Oklahoma. Hidden gem IMO!

[bradski]

I really enjoyed Rams Hill which claims to be Fazio but I believe Faldo came in and did some work recently but for a course out in the middle of nowhere in SoCal this spot was a 1st class design and experience

 

Fazio did a redesign and then within a few years they sold the water rights. The reseeded the course a few years ago and changed the name back to Ram's hill. One of the top 5 courses in southern California.

[Chanceman]

I appreciate all those who answered the thread without bashing the architect.

 

We all have different criteria for evaluating courses. All the major publications use a different formula for creating their Top 100 Lists, yet all of them have numerous Fazio designs.

 

If you look at the numbers behind the Golf Digest rankings, they bear out what people "feel" - Fazio's courses outperform peers in "aesthetics" and "conditioning" and underperform on "shot values" and "resistance to scoring".

 

This, understandably, draws the scorn of the architecture snobs.

Is that style over substance you are talking about? If so, call me a snob, and give me substance every time. Not that style does not have its compemsations.

[PuttCurseRepeat]

I get where your going but I've never played a Fazio that had the demographic you described, many of the ones I've played are walking only.

 

Interesting. I've played a bunch and can't name a single one that was walking only. Butler National, maybe?

 

Carts are allowed, and often used, at Butler National.

[Schley]

Variety is the spice of life and I enjoy variety for sure, which means Doak and Fazio have their place. I think that people like chocolate and some vanilla, some coke others pepsi. There is room for both as well as others. Of the course designers who are alive today I would rank them according to my favorites top 5:

 

Tom Doak

Ben Crenshaw & Tom Coore

Pete Dye

Tom Fazio

Jack Nicklaus

[Bubb]

Fazio is my favorite architect. The National at Reynolds Lake Oconee is a real treat. So is the Premier at Treetops.

[FairwayFred]

I haven't played Common Ground but I think the exact opposite wrt to Doak courses - they're fun but hardly strategic.

 

Doak and Fazio are sometimes juxtaposed as "opposite" kinds of designers, but I actually think they're philosophically very aligned. Both have focused their work on high-end courses that deliver a lot of "fun" for their players...they just have different target profiles in mind. Doak's profile golfer is the wirey old guy you see pushing his cart around your local muni every morning at sunrise. Every morning. Fazio's profile golfer is the one cruising around in a custom cart, using a custom-made cigar holder to hold his stogie on the green. But fundamentally, both guys are building courses that are fun and keep their player entertained. They're not "championship" course builders - and I don't think they want to be.

 

Here's my take as to the typical golfer Doak/Fazio have in mind:

 

- Doak: nerdy, bogey golfer who can't drive at all but think that they can putt well. prides themselves on being smarter and more cultured than others. didn't get girls until they started working at some white collar profession. Professes to love hoppy beer. More likely to have a beard

- Fazio: jocky low single-digit handicap who likes everything laid out in front of them because they think they are good ball striker. prides themselves on being a better golfer than others. may have peaked socially in high school unless they got a good job. Professes to love expensive wine and scotch. More likely to have no beard

 

That made me laugh very hard. Do you have a profile for Coore/Crenshaw or Nicklaus guys?

[DLiver]

I am not a big fan of Fazio. He has designed some nice courses, but IMO there is a certain sameness to his designs. When I play one of his designs, after about 5 holes I feel like I'm playing the same holes over and over again.

 

That said, he tends to produce his best courses in rolling "sand barrens" type of terrain. I think one of the Forrest Creek courses is an outstanding course (I can't recall which one), and the World Woods Pine Barrens course is excellent as well. I don't understand the love for Fredericka. It is a very cool experience but not a top 100 course IMO.

 

YMMV

[BG5]

Love his Premier Course @ Treetops in Gaylord Michigan. I love that track!

[Roadking2003]

Variety is the spice of life and I enjoy variety for sure, which means Doak and Fazio have their place. I think that people like chocolate and some vanilla, some coke others pepsi. There is room for both as well as others. Of the course designers who are alive today I would rank them according to my favorites top 5:

 

Tom Doak

Ben Crenshaw & Tom Coore

Pete Dye

Tom Fazio

Jack Nicklaus

 

Interesting. I would flip your list 100%.

[Craigstands17]

I am not a big fan of Fazio. He has designed some nice courses, but IMO there is a certain sameness to his designs. When I play one of his designs, after about 5 holes I feel like I'm playing the same holes over and over again.

 

That said, he tends to produce his best courses in rolling "sand barrens" type of terrain. I think one of the Forrest Creek courses is an outstanding course (I can't recall which one), and the World Woods Pine Barrens course is excellent as well. I don't understand the love for Fredericka. It is a very cool experience but not a top 100 course IMO.

 

YMMV

 

Both Forest Creek Courses are great, but the North Course does get more recognition as it is truly amazing. Also for both Forest Creek courses he hardly moved any land at all, and went with a more minimalist approach as that is what the original owners requested.

 

Fazio is also one of the new owners of Forest Creek (Colony 9 LLC), and I think, but am not 100% sure, that they are the only courses he has taken an ownership stake in.

[mmckee02]

Caves Valley and Galloway National are up there for me.