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German Stainless Steel vs. Double Aged Stainless Steel


Dr Rangelove

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Well now I want my next putter to be Canadian 303 SSS. i know it would be "cooler" than the others, if you know what I mean

 

We do make a lot of steel around here (no offense to Pittsburghians)

 

I can picture the logo already ... a moose, beaver and polar bear in a cage match

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Well now I want my next putter to be Canadian 303 SSS. i know it would be "cooler" than the others, if you know what I mean

 

We do make a lot of steel around here (no offense to Pittsburghians)

 

I can picture the logo already ... a moose, beaver and polar bear in a cage match

odd, I would have pictured the Tasmnian Devil in a Johnny Miller "reverse C" pose.
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If anyone here is saying they can tell a difference in how GSS/DASS feels compared to 303 while putting then they are getting a placebo like effect and lying their balls off.

 

The only difference in GSS/DASS compared to 303 stainless is that they have more copper in them and are fire rolled. Which makes them much easier to mill. As far as feel,sound and durability etc there isn't a single bit of difference compared to 303. It's laughable when people say they are softer or a better steel.

 

The only reason I would buy a GSS/DASS putter is if I could get it at a reasonable price for resale value because there is idiots that actually think it has more value to it over 303. Scotty and Bettinardi's marketing worked like a charm.

 

The only guys that are seeing a difference is the people milling the heads oh and of course the pockets of the guys selling it for an outrageous markup.

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My Cousin has owned a machine shop for 40yrs. He laughs when I talk about this topic and thinks the marketing is genius...BB

Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
Fairway: Titleist 917F2
Hybrid: A-Grind
2 iron: Ping Rapture
Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
Putter: Evnroll 9.1
Balls: ProV1

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Have heard all the haha's and placebo effect talk from many, I do not buy into the fact that all 303 is the same. Have refinished dozens of putters from different putter makers who buy the 303 from different sources.

 

My opinion with pictures and the experience of putting with all of them is "they are different". Scotty's torch finish the worst, Piretti and TP Mills putters finish the best with more HD bright colors. One interesting thing I have noted is the older 303 putters by Cameron felt softer and finished brighter.

 

DASS putters feel different to me as well as the heat process changes the grain structure giving it a softer feel. One guys opinion!

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As an experiment let's say a putter maker like Cameron took two identical putters one GSS one SSS and stamped them wrong. GSS was stamped as an SSS and the SSS was stamped up as a GSS.

 

Would everyone say the stamped SSS is softer/feels better?

 

Nope, the fact that Don stamped em wrong means they both are worth $10,000 and feel like any other putter.

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Feels "better" is subjective, the real question is would 2 putters made to the exact same specs, same finish... with the only difference being gss and sss, what percent could repeatably feel any difference in a blind test (where the same putter would be taken away and handed back at times, not stating whether the same or the other).

 

My 0.02 is no, but might not even be worth 0.02.

 

Now, if someone thinks they put better with one material or another, and therefore has more confidence, my 0.02 is that person could putt better with one or the other material.

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I have a few putters and I could never tell the difference to be honest.

 

It felt to me like the 1995 Cameron Newport and the Bettinardi BC1 were 'softest' but then I put earphones on and rolled some putters and could not tell the difference at all. Probably speaks more about my skill level than anything else ha ha.

 

Rob

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Alright, so allow me to steer this a slightly direction: how does carbon steel differ from stainless in terms of softness or feel?

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While there are many variants in both stainless and carbon steel, for the types typically used in putters, stainless steel is harder than carbon steel. Assuming the same milling pattern in the face, a stainless putter will "feel" harder, which can be contributed as much to the louder (some say "clickier") sound as compared to something that is actually felt.

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Putter feel is mostly about loft, face finish (smooth or milled grooves), head weight and the grip you have. It has nothing to do with the alloy of stainless steel, as others have mentioned here.

A ball is far softer than any metal. One metal can be softer than another, but the softest part in the equation is the ball by far, and the metal's characteristic is a tiny blip in the data.

Comparing one putter to another, the factors I mentioned will all be a little different, hence producing "the difference in feel".

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Putter feel is mostly about loft, face finish (smooth or milled grooves), head weight and the grip you have. It has nothing to do with the alloy of stainless steel, as others have mentioned here.

A ball is far softer than any metal. One metal can be softer than another, but the softest part in the equation is the ball by far, and the metal's characteristic is a tiny blip in the data.

Comparing one putter to another, the factors I mentioned will all be a little different, hence producing "the difference in feel".

I completely buy what your selling here...BB

Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
Fairway: Titleist 917F2
Hybrid: A-Grind
2 iron: Ping Rapture
Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
Putter: Evnroll 9.1
Balls: ProV1

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So instead of what kind of metal is softer/harder, should we be debating what head design, face thickness, etc., is the best for feel?

Tour Edge c721/HZRDUS Smoke Red RDX

Cleveland Launcher XL Halo 3 wood/UST Elements MK
Ping g410 4h Tensei blue, Ping g425 6h Tensei orange

Maltby TS3 7-Gap w/Xcaliber Rapid Taper 95/105

SnakeEyes 685BX 52*/Callaway Jaws Raw 58Z

TP Mills Sycamore Hakd Made, flow neck pencil shaft, 342 grams, Grip Master Roo FL27

Carbon Ringo wide-flange, slant neck, 330 grams

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Nothing beats forged Valyrian steel except perhaps adding a polished dragonglass insert. ?

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So instead of what kind of metal is softer/harder, should we be debating what head design, face thickness, etc., is the best for feel?

 

Headshape plays a lot into it especially in irons. There isn't a damn bit a difference in forged vs cast as far as feel. There is numerous studies showing blind tests as well that headshape of the iron is the overall deciding factor as to how "soft" it feels and of course strike location.

 

Another common myth regarding forging and casting is that forged clubs feel “softer.”

 

It’s very difficult to quantify feel, and thus very hard to dispute that statement. However, it has been proven, time and again, that feel comes almost exclusively from the geometry of the club and not the material. So the perception that a forged club feels softer is often primarily a function of club’s shape.

 

Again, forgings typically offer a compact, “muscle back” or small cavity design, which places the majority of material and weight more behind the golf ball. Castings typically have a game improvement design, which places more weight on the perimeters, away from the center of the face. And it’s this geometric difference which is responsible for differing feels. Several manufacturers have even done testing with similarly shaped and designed clubs in forged and cast models with some of the best players in the world, and they often couldn’t tell the difference in a blind test.

 

I would have to say the same applies to putters. Hitting the sweet spot on a mallet is going to feel better than a blade no matter the material. Due to weight placement etc.

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So instead of what kind of metal is softer/harder, should we be debating what head design, face thickness, etc., is the best for feel?

 

Not sure how you define "best for feel", as it is up to the individual. If you are looking for something specific as compared to an existing putter, sharing your exact putter specs (such as those described above by Spry in post 45 above, where I'd include material as a factor in that sound can play a role in "feel"), and I'm sure you will get lots of input into what you are trying to get to.

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So instead of what kind of metal is softer/harder, should we be debating what head design, face thickness, etc., is the best for feel?

 

Headshape plays a lot into it especially in irons. There isn't a damn bit a difference in forged vs cast as far as feel. There is numerous studies showing blind tests as well that headshape of the iron is the overall deciding factor as to how "soft" it feels and of course strike location.

 

Another common myth regarding forging and casting is that forged clubs feel “softer.”

 

It’s very difficult to quantify feel, and thus very hard to dispute that statement. However, it has been proven, time and again, that feel comes almost exclusively from the geometry of the club and not the material. So the perception that a forged club feels softer is often primarily a function of club’s shape.

 

Again, forgings typically offer a compact, “muscle back” or small cavity design, which places the majority of material and weight more behind the golf ball. Castings typically have a game improvement design, which places more weight on the perimeters, away from the center of the face. And it’s this geometric difference which is responsible for differing feels. Several manufacturers have even done testing with similarly shaped and designed clubs in forged and cast models with some of the best players in the world, and they often couldn’t tell the difference in a blind test.

 

I would have to say the same applies to putters. Hitting the sweet spot on a mallet is going to feel better than a blade no matter the material. Due to weight placement etc.

 

Agreed 100%, especially with irons. It's the mass directly behind the sweet spot in a muscle back blade that gives it that gratifying feel on a center struck shot, it's not the softness of the metal or the manufacturing process.

 

Putters can be a bit different for a number of reasons. In terms of feel, I prefer heel shafted blades parrly because of the feedback they provide. Perfect strikes are stable and solid. Slight misses are easily discernable in terms of torque and twisting of the blade and a less solid/gratifying feel to the strike.

 

IMO, the materials used in construction seem to influence feel in putters more than irons perhaps because it's a lower speed collision with the ball.

USGA Index: ~0

[b]WITB[/b]:
Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
Ping G410 LST - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Kasco K2K 33 - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
Taylormade TP5X Ball

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