We have launched our new enhanced Editor. There is an overview and tutorial Here.

Titleist golf ball study; Finally, some facts added to the debate

1246719
19

Comments

  • UhitUhit  861Members Posts: 861
    Joined:  #92
    bscinstnct wrote:


    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.



    Now show me that correlation again.




    Look at the web.com tour



    30 guys *average* 310 or more



    87 guys average 300 or more



    Distance off the tee correlates directly with success in golf.



    Proof...



    2 best golfers of all time



    Jack



    Tiger




    So, why do those web.com long hitter play on the web.com tour?



    Is the web.com tour the tour where the best golfers of all time play?



    That two of the greatest golfers of all time were also long, and not only accurate, shows, how much skill is needed to be long AND accurate...

    ...this combination is obviously very rare, and should be rewarded.



    Short and accurate is something you can watch all day when senior golfers play.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolina 28895Members Posts: 28,895
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #93
    Uhit wrote:

    bscinstnct wrote:


    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.



    Now show me that correlation again.




    Look at the web.com tour



    30 guys *average* 310 or more



    87 guys average 300 or more



    Distance off the tee correlates directly with success in golf.



    Proof...



    2 best golfers of all time



    Jack



    Tiger




    So, why do those web.com long hitter play on the web.com tour?



    Is the web.com tour the tour where the best golfers of all time play?



    That two of the greatest golfers of all time were also long, and not only accurate, shows, how much skill is needed to be long AND accurate...

    ...this combination is obviously very rare, and should be rewarded.



    Short and accurate is something you can watch all day when senior golfers play.






    is there a point in that statement ?





    of course being long and accurate is a great asset.... but short and accurate isnt going to win much.... showing spieth as 75th distance is a bit misleading... he averages right at 300.... so one can assume top 80 in the world average around 300... which is long in anyones book... he just happens to have the wedge game of a god to add with being long.... DJ, Keopka, Finau, etc arent long... they are Freaks of nature long... and should be excluded from any argument about length... they will be long no matter what ball is played... ask yourself this question.... take their length away.. make them 275 average hitters... do they stay on top of the money lists etc ? NOpe.. DJ has improved his wedge game.. but by improved i mean hes gone from embarassing to serviceable... if he isnt long and misses more greens because of longer approaches he doesnt have the skills to get up and down enough to stay relevant... Spieth is the obvious exception to this idea... you could shorten him up and hed still make a living... BUT you could give him 30 yards and hed stay #1 in the world for a long long time... distance matters a ton
    Posted:
    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3- PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  54 60 s400
    Cameron GSS 1.5 009. Sound slot,  tungsten weights. 


  • bscinstnctbscinstnct  27756Members Posts: 27,756
    Joined:  #94
    Uhit wrote:

    bscinstnct wrote:


    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.



    Now show me that correlation again.




    Look at the web.com tour



    30 guys *average* 310 or more



    87 guys average 300 or more



    Distance off the tee correlates directly with success in golf.



    Proof...



    2 best golfers of all time



    Jack



    Tiger




    So, why do those web.com long hitter play on the web.com tour?



    Is the web.com tour the tour where the best golfers of all time play?



    That two of the greatest golfers of all time were also long, and not only accurate, shows, how much skill is needed to be long AND accurate...

    ...this combination is obviously very rare, and should be rewarded.



    Short and accurate is something you can watch all day when senior golfers play.




    The point is the reason that so many young players *on* tour are big hitters.



    Why?



    Its a prerequisite.



    Then, as you say, all aspects of the game funnel the best to the top.



    The titleist study focuses on the pursuit of distance. To me it confirms how important distance is.



    But, I think, they argue its not just the ball but a combo of factors.



    Posted:
  • new2g0lfnew2g0lf  3441Members Posts: 3,441
    Joined:  #95
    BIG STU wrote:

    SnakeP. wrote:


    They are going to hurt a lot of people if they roll the ball back. There is no way there is going to be a separate ball for Pros and Ams, everyone will go back to the tour ball. The longest drivers were still smashing the ball 20 years ago, technology has allowed the pack to keep up, I don't really see this as a bad thing.



    This is a complete non issue for 99% of the golfing world. At the courses I play, on any given day you could probably count the players that can hit a ball over 300 on your fingers. The majority of these golfers don't hit their drivers 220. Lots of women and seniors are laying up on par 3s with their driver. I could really care less that the classic courses that I'll never set foot on can't host their majors. I do not give half a **** that Augusta has had to do some renovating to stay relevant. I care about playing golf a lot more than watching golf.



    At this point, I'd normally write something sarcastic and disparaging, but I don't want to undermine my own argument. Seriously, you're going to hurt millions of golfers catering to a couple hundred tour players.
    I have stated this before-- The Ball companies will loose money on the new "limited" ball for the general masses. I dare say 90% of the people playing the game now play for fun and do not play stipulated rounds even at league level. Seniors (I am one BTW) are not going to buy a new high priced ball that goes less distance. there are too many balls out here of all brands that are conforming to today's standards. I am retired from stipulated comp and play mostly for fun and could care less what the USGA R&A or the PGA want to do. All 3 of them can pound sand as far as I am concerned




    I agree with most of you post but do you condone someone playing non-conforming drivers and balls in money games or club tournaments with you?
    Posted:
    Driver - Home Ping G410 + 9.5*   Away Ping G400 Max 10*
    Woods - XXIO 10 3W
    Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
    Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-SW   Away - Callaway Apex CF-19 5-SW
    Wedge - PXG 58* 
    Putter - Seemore Nashville mFGP2 SS Mallet Black
    Ball - KSig, TM TP5X, Snell MTB
  • UhitUhit  861Members Posts: 861
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #96

    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.







    Wow, that is impressive,



    Kevin Kisner 120th in driving, and in the top 10 money list!



    Matt Kuchar 148th! in driving, and on place 14 in the money list!



    -



    Only the #2, #7, #8, #13, #16, #19, #20, #23, #26, and #30 in driving distance are in the top 30 of the money list!



    This shows, that there is in general a pretty weak correlation between driving distance and success...



    ...another evidence, that the idea, that the ball goes to far, is just made up to cover completely different faults.
    Posted:
  • Soloman1Soloman1  2689Members Posts: 2,689
    Joined:  #97
    So juiced balls and aluminum bats would be good for MLB?
    Posted:
    I'm quitting at 6.022 x 10^23 posts.
    Avogadro would be proud.
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • new2g0lfnew2g0lf  3441Members Posts: 3,441
    Joined:  #98
    Soloman1 wrote:


    So juiced balls and aluminum bats would be good for MLB?


    This year they had their best ratings and many players felt they used a juiced ball, so yes. MLB has been accused throughout the years to use a juiced ball when scoring was down as a means to neutralize great pitching.
    Posted:
    Driver - Home Ping G410 + 9.5*   Away Ping G400 Max 10*
    Woods - XXIO 10 3W
    Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
    Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-SW   Away - Callaway Apex CF-19 5-SW
    Wedge - PXG 58* 
    Putter - Seemore Nashville mFGP2 SS Mallet Black
    Ball - KSig, TM TP5X, Snell MTB
  • Rapatt95Rapatt95 wow  570Members Posts: 570
    Joined:  #99
    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.



    Now show me that correlation again.


    Warms my little heart to see Kuch so high on the money list. Seems like a good guy
    Posted:
    Titleist 909d3 Diamana Blue 60s
    Adams Tight Lies Tour 18* 5w Aldila Tour Blue ATX75tx
    Titleist 913h 19* Diamana Blue 82h s+ 
    Ben Hogan PTx 22*-34* C-Taper Lite 115x (Thank you GolfWRX and Ben Hogan!)
    Ben Hogan Ft Worth 15 37*-45* C-Taper Lite 115x
    Ping Glide Forged 50* DG TI S400 (Thank you GolfWRX and Ping!)
    TM TP ATV 54* KBS Tour-V Wedge
    Vokey SM5 58* DG Wedge
    Ping 1959 B60
  • Rapatt95Rapatt95 wow  570Members Posts: 570
    Joined:  #100
    Soloman1 wrote:
    So juiced balls and aluminum bats would be good for MLB?


    No, it wouldn’t. But in golf there’s no third baseman 90 feet away worrying about Stanton hitting a 120 mph ball at him with an aluminum bat.



    That’s not a good sport to sport comparison.



    All that matters is who shoots the lowest score. If the lowest score is -21 or -4, who cares? They beat everyone else in the field on the same course on the same 4 days.



    Grow out the fairways say I.
    Posted:
    Titleist 909d3 Diamana Blue 60s
    Adams Tight Lies Tour 18* 5w Aldila Tour Blue ATX75tx
    Titleist 913h 19* Diamana Blue 82h s+ 
    Ben Hogan PTx 22*-34* C-Taper Lite 115x (Thank you GolfWRX and Ben Hogan!)
    Ben Hogan Ft Worth 15 37*-45* C-Taper Lite 115x
    Ping Glide Forged 50* DG TI S400 (Thank you GolfWRX and Ping!)
    TM TP ATV 54* KBS Tour-V Wedge
    Vokey SM5 58* DG Wedge
    Ping 1959 B60
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct  27756Members Posts: 27,756
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #101
    Uhit wrote:


    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.







    Wow, that is impressive,



    Kevin Kisner 120th in driving, and in the top 10 money list!



    Matt Kuchar 148th! in driving, and on place 14 in the money list!



    -



    Only the #2, #7, #8, #13, #16, #19, #20, #23, #26, and #30 in driving distance are in the top 30 of the money list!



    This shows, that there is in general a pretty weak correlation between driving distance and success...



    ...another evidence, that the idea, that the ball goes to far, is just made up to cover completely different faults.






    If its not obvious enough how clearly length not only correlates with success but is a prerequisite



    Lets look at the bottom 20 in distance and you see that



    None of them are in the top 20owgr. Maybe not even the top 30 or 40 owgr.



    https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2017.html





    The entire top 30 averages 300 yards.



    What seperates #20 in distance from #10?



    4yds.



    Btw, Im dont support rolling the ball back.
    Posted:
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Iowa 19069ClubWRX Posts: 19,069
    Joined:  #102
    new2g0lf wrote:

    Soloman1 wrote:


    So juiced balls and aluminum bats would be good for MLB?


    This year they had their best ratings and many players felt they used a juiced ball, so yes. MLB has been accused throughout the years to use a juiced ball when scoring was down as a means to neutralize great pitching.




    More than just the ball was juiced during some big years!
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • TsarBombaTsarBomba  698Members Posts: 698
    Joined:  #103

    TsarBomba wrote:

    starsail85 wrote:


    The average player on tour is a higher and higher clubhead speed as time goes by , because the course design and tour rota doesn’t allow 100mph good players to compete .



    There were guys with 100mph driver swings on tour in the 80s and 90s but the lengthening courses phased them out



    Stop making it a requirement to hit it so far



    There are humans capable of 400 carry , and that’s the way it will end up if the courses keep getting longer




    Some would argue golf is a sport. And in sports, it is pretty normal for those with physical gifts and ability to have an advantage over those who do not. Trying to find a way to take away the advantage is silly.



    Right now there already is a rule in place limiting the ball. For most golfers the courses are plenty long and challenging. For the elite few it's easier due to thier length - and thats how it should be.



    Those who understand the technology, know that the plateau has already been reached with optimized launch/spin, superior aerodynamics. The mfgrs are right at the limits now. The 400 yard guys that also have touch - if/when these unicorns come along, they would have an advantage regardless of how we choose to ruin the golf ball.




    Don't think that's true. We haven't had a golf ball yet come out that's at the limit. At some point one will be released that is advertised as " pushing the limit " . Hasn't happened yet. But it will.




    You do realize there are illegal balls on the market that exceed the limit, right? So yes, the technology to simply reach the limit is already here. Now they design as close as possible without exceeding it. (Obviously with some variations in spin, launch, lift/drag between models suited for a variety of player swings).



    Does 317 yards at 120 MPH (current testing) really seem like a limit we have not reached yet?
    Posted:
  • UhitUhit  861Members Posts: 861
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #104
    bscinstnct wrote:

    Uhit wrote:


    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.







    Wow, that is impressive,



    Kevin Kisner 120th in driving, and in the top 10 money list!



    Matt Kuchar 148th! in driving, and on place 14 in the money list!



    -



    Only the #2, #7, #8, #13, #16, #19, #20, #23, #26, and #30 in driving distance are in the top 30 of the money list!



    This shows, that there is in general a pretty weak correlation between driving distance and success...



    ...another evidence, that the idea, that the ball goes to far, is just made up to cover completely different faults.




    The entire top 30 averages 300 yards.



    What seperates #20 from #10?



    4yds.



    If its not obvious enough how clearly length not only correlates with success but is a prerequisite



    Lets look at the bottom 20 in distance and you see that



    None of them are in the top 20owgr. Maybe not even the top 30 or 40 owgr.



    https://www.pgatour....t.101.2017.html



    Btw, Im dont support rolling the ball back.




    Roughly said:



    1/3 of the top 30 money list are also in the top 30 in driving distance (which includes the exaggerated roll on fast and firm fairways btw.)...

    ...however 2/3 are not included!



    Thus one could conclude, that distance makes around 1/3 of the game, and 2/3 is the short game!



    "You drive for show but putt for dough"



    ...still applies.



    -



    That someone, who is not able to reach every par 4 in two, has a hard time to compete, should be no surprise...



    It is quite uncommon in sports, to focus on the worst players - especially on TV.





    P.S.:



    Funny coincidence:



    "Mr. 58" Jim Furyk is on the last place #190 of the driving distance list in your link! image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' />
    Posted:
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct  27756Members Posts: 27,756
    Joined:  #105
    8 of top 10 owgr (4 of top 5] average 300 yds



    The entire bottom 30 in driving distance is outside the top 40 in the owgr.



    And driving distance does not correlate with success?
    Posted:
  • UhitUhit  861Members Posts: 861
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #106
    bscinstnct wrote:


    8 of top 10 owgr (4 of top 5] average 300 yds



    The entire bottom 30 in driving distance is outside the top 40 in the owgr.



    And driving distance does not correlate with success?




    It has a weaker correlation with success, than the short game.



    Ask Mr. 58 Jim Furyk!



    Posted:
  • Sean2Sean2  30952Members Posts: 30,952
    Joined:  #107
    While distance is an important factor in professional golf, there is more to golf than distance. If distance were the only prerequisite to have a successful career on Tour, all those long drive competitors would be playing on Tour and not the long drive circuit.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1  3791Members Posts: 3,791
    Joined:  #108

    raynorfan1 wrote:



    Question. How would the side that's against he ball being rolled back distance wise feel if it were rolled back to a ball that simply spins more. One that's harder to hit straight ? But Retains the possibility of going the same distance as now on a perfect strike ? Coupled with a cc rollback of 100cc for driver. Would that be a fair compromise to the proposed ball rollback ?




    What problem are you solving for?



    I’d rather have them roll back the driver size/COR and wedge groove rules.




    And I get that. You'd rather hit a straight ball yes?



    I'm saying that the true issue isn't total distance . It's the ease at which it's achieved.



    And on top of that approach shots. We see less and less flighted , worked in shots to a tight pin. It's all high straight at it. It's a pipe dream I know as it won't happen. But if every tour player had to play a less forgiving iron ( one without perimeter weighting ) and a ball that spun more viewing in my opinion would be x100 more fun to watch. Cream would rise as usual. And we would see a lot more interesting pro tracer shots. Anyone think that isn't true ? If so I'd love to hear how straight is more fun to watch. Truth is it wont happen because of $. Can't sell less forgiveness to the masses. So the game is sold off bit by bit.




    I get it. But it reminds me of an aging high school basketball coach who has become a fan of Women’s NCAA basketball because “they still play the game the right way”.



    Some people would undoubtedly enjoy watching a high-spin shotmaking shootout. If the PGA Tour thought that this was the majority of people, they’d be mandating a spinny ball. The market wants bombers, bombers are what they’ll get.



    The reality is that we’re just going to plateau at a new normal. The top quartile guys will all hit their drives the same distance, and tournaments will be decided by short irons and putting - just like they always have been.
    Posted:
  • ShilgyShilgy Phoenix 11963Members Posts: 11,963
    Joined:  #109
    Uhit wrote:

    bscinstnct wrote:


    8 of top 10 owgr (4 of top 5] average 300 yds



    The entire bottom 30 in driving distance is outside the top 40 in the owgr.



    And driving distance does not correlate with success?




    It has a weaker correlation with success, than the short game.



    Ask Mr. 58 Jim Furyk!




    That's your argument? The 164th ranked player?
    Posted:
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • ByeBye England 1359Members Posts: 1,359
    Joined:  #110
    raynorfan1 wrote:


    raynorfan1 wrote:



    Question. How would the side that's against he ball being rolled back distance wise feel if it were rolled back to a ball that simply spins more. One that's harder to hit straight ? But Retains the possibility of going the same distance as now on a perfect strike ? Coupled with a cc rollback of 100cc for driver. Would that be a fair compromise to the proposed ball rollback ?




    What problem are you solving for?



    I’d rather have them roll back the driver size/COR and wedge groove rules.




    And I get that. You'd rather hit a straight ball yes?



    I'm saying that the true issue isn't total distance . It's the ease at which it's achieved.



    And on top of that approach shots. We see less and less flighted , worked in shots to a tight pin. It's all high straight at it. It's a pipe dream I know as it won't happen. But if every tour player had to play a less forgiving iron ( one without perimeter weighting ) and a ball that spun more viewing in my opinion would be x100 more fun to watch. Cream would rise as usual. And we would see a lot more interesting pro tracer shots. Anyone think that isn't true ? If so I'd love to hear how straight is more fun to watch. Truth is it wont happen because of $. Can't sell less forgiveness to the masses. So the game is sold off bit by bit.




    I get it. But it reminds me of an aging high school basketball coach who has become a fan of Women’s NCAA basketball because “they still play the game the right way”.



    Some people would undoubtedly enjoy watching a high-spin shotmaking shootout. If the PGA Tour thought that this was the majority of people, they’d be mandating a spinny ball. The market wants bombers, bombers are what they’ll get.



    The reality is that we’re just going to plateau at a new normal. The top quartile guys will all hit their drives the same distance, and tournaments will be decided by short irons and putting - just like they always have been.




    This week at the Joberg open there was a 16 year old English junior in the field. He hits his 7 iron 225, carry. Some may say he is an exception but it's just what's coming. The PGA Tour average and highest ball speeds are increasing and the average angle of atack is moving towards a positive figure. We are a long way from plateauing.







    Posted:
    Taylormade M3 9.5 - Aldila Rogue Silver 60X
    Callaway Rogue 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver 70X
    Titleist 816 H2 20 degrees - Aldila Rogue Black 85X
    Titleist 716CB 4-9 - X100
    Vokey SM7 46.10, 50.08, 54M, 59M - S400
    Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless Newport 2.5
    Titleist Pro V1
  • golfing_penguingolfing_penguin  405Members Posts: 405
    Joined:  #111
    The golf ball hasn't gone any farther since 2004ish when drivers got regulated down. Yes the field is closer packed in distance.



    So what? If no course ever got lengthened again, scores would by fractions, get lower.



    Why is that a bad thing?
    Posted:
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1  3791Members Posts: 3,791
    Joined:  #112
    We’re hurtling towards a reality where 500 yard drives are possible, and virtually all holes will come down to a drive to somewhere near the green complex, and then a wedge or recovery shot onto the green and two putts. A very different game from the one Nicklaus knows. Long irons will exist for holes where you merely have to hit it 300 to the green. Mid irons will go away.



    The mashie is gone too, and I don’t think anybody (save a few historical re-enactors ) miss it. The game evolves.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • UhitUhit  861Members Posts: 861
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #113
    Shilgy wrote:

    Uhit wrote:

    bscinstnct wrote:


    8 of top 10 owgr (4 of top 5] average 300 yds



    The entire bottom 30 in driving distance is outside the top 40 in the owgr.



    And driving distance does not correlate with success?




    It has a weaker correlation with success, than the short game.



    Ask Mr. 58 Jim Furyk!



    https://www.youtube....h?v=s8NGfEMSFEQ
    That's your argument? The 164th ranked player?




    That was just an example, that one of the shortest hitters on tour was able to produce the lowest score on tour.

    (however not in every tournament of course)



    If there were a strong correlation between driving distance and success,

    Jim Furyk would not have been able to shoot the lowest score ever on Tour - isn´t it?



    Bernhard Langer is also more known for his success, than for the longest drives.
    Posted:
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 Austin 6334Members Posts: 6,334
    Joined:  #114
    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    It is NOT a study.



    It is a Papal Bull from golf ball world's Vatican.



    Nothing in there that is new or hasn't been discussed ad nauseam on here or anywhere else before. Just good and (although sounding a little shrill at this point) proactive marketing.



    And again, I like my ProV1s and Chrome Softs very much, thank you and golf balls for the average golfer aren't going to get dialed back, and likely not for the pros either (and if they did for pros, who cares).




    I don't recall anybody discussing how fairway grass has contributed to the longer drives.
    Posted:
  • buckeyeflbuckeyefl  6092Members Posts: 6,092
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #115
    raynorfan1 wrote:


    We’re hurtling towards a reality where 500 yard drives are possible, and virtually all holes will come down to a drive to somewhere near the green complex, and then a wedge or recovery shot onto the green and two putts. A very different game from the one Nicklaus knows. Long irons will exist for holes where you merely have to hit it 300 to the green. Mid irons will go away.



    The mashie is gone too, and I don’t think anybody (save a few historical re-enactors ) miss it. The game evolves.


    No we aren't. People really need to stop basing arguments on outliers. That includes you USGA.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 Austin 6334Members Posts: 6,334
    Joined:  #116
    Uhit wrote:




    Wow, that is impressive,



    Kevin Kisner 120th in driving, and in the top 10 money list!



    Matt Kuchar 148th! in driving, and on place 14 in the money list!



    -



    Only the #2, #7, #8, #13, #16, #19, #20, #23, #26, and #30 in driving distance are in the top 30 of the money list!



    This shows, that there is in general a pretty weak correlation between driving distance and success...



    ...another evidence, that the idea, that the ball goes to far, is just made up to cover completely different faults.




    And that's exactly what the Titleist report said.
    Posted:
  • UhitUhit  861Members Posts: 861
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #117
    raynorfan1 wrote:


    We're hurtling towards a reality where 500 yard drives are possible, and virtually all holes will come down to a drive to somewhere near the green complex, and then a wedge or recovery shot onto the green and two putts. A very different game from the one Nicklaus knows. Long irons will exist for holes where you merely have to hit it 300 to the green. Mid irons will go away.



    The mashie is gone too, and I don't think anybody (save a few historical re-enactors ) miss it. The game evolves.




    We already have drives over 400 yards...

    ...however not because of the big carry distances, but because of a hard bounce on a firm fairway, or cart path, with additional roll down the slope...

    ...which all adds up to (total) driving distance in the stats.



    A softer fairway with higher grass would prevent that.



    -



    Jamie Sadlowski had not that much success on tour, despite he could hit it over 400 yards - sometimes...



    -



    Your 500 yard reality became already true with a hickory shafted club at a time, where professionals drove it not much over 200 yards...

    ...when Titanic Thompson won a bet by waiting until winter, and driving a ball onto a frozen lake.



    At that time there was probably no USGA, who could jump on this incident as a reason to restrict the ball...



    https://en.wikipedia...itanic_Thompson
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • SullGolfSullGolf  9062Members Posts: 9,062
    Joined:  #118

    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.



    Now show me that correlation again.




    Here you go.
    Posted:
  • UhitUhit  861Members Posts: 861
    Joined:  edited Dec 10, 2017 #119
    SullGolf wrote:


    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.



    Now show me that correlation again.




    Here you go.




    Have you also a graphics that shows "Putts per Hole vs $/Event"?



    Jordan Spieth and Jason Day come to mind...
    Posted:
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct  27756Members Posts: 27,756
    Joined:  #120
    SullGolf wrote:


    bscinstnct wrote:


    There is a direct correlation to distance off the tee and success. Per 2017 PGA Tour stats, nearly every top player averages 295, including Spieth, and most top ten average over 300.



    The top 10 owgr,



    DJ 315

    JS 295

    JT 309

    Rahm 305

    HM 303

    Rose 301

    Rickie 300

    Brooks 311

    Stenson 292 (think he uses 3w alot]

    Rory 317




    The debate isn't about who drives it 300 yards. It's about the correlation between distance and success. Let's look at the stats for the top 30 on the money list.



    Notice that only three on the top 30 money list are top 10 drivers. And the #2 money player is 75th in driving. And 15 of the top 30 money guys rank 50th or worse in driving.



    Now show me that correlation again.




    Here you go.




    Rofl!



    Perfect ; )



    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Kansas 13722Members Posts: 13,722
    Joined:  #121
    mosesgolf wrote:

    gvogel wrote:


    By the way, when I was playing pretty good golf back in the late 70's and 80's, we took it for granted that some par 4 holes, in some conditions, were not reachable in 2 shots. Only the really long guys could get to a 420 yard par 4 playing into the wind.



    Now it seems that the current generation feels entitled to reach any par 4 in two shots because of equipment advances. Your conclusion will be different than mine.


    IMO every par 4 should be reachable in two. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    By whom? Under what conditions? With what clubs?

    To make a blanket statement like that every par 4 would have to be pretty short.
    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
19

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.