DECADE by BirdieFire

[DanHGolf]

Unfortunately, the previous thread was deleted. But the content and discussion was so good, I wanted to bring it back. Please, no "promoting" or anything close to it. Keep the discussion limited to the features and concepts for course strategy and stat tracking.

 

The DECADE Course Management System, created by Scott Fawcett, has solved golf strategy by combining shot distribution patterns and PGA Tour scoring statistics. When Scott combined those two data sets he created a simple way to optimize target selection. Good players know if a pin is closely guarded by a lake to favor the center of the green – but how much? DECADE quickly generates the optimal target that will produce the lowest score based on distance, hazards, and hole location.

 

I think most of us instinctively do this, for example aim a little long when water is short, but DECADE helps quantify it.

 

 

 

DeChambeau's Unique Approach Has Him on Uncharted Path

 

Then there is the use of analytics or that “unique approach,” that McNealy talks about. The process began when DeChambeau attended a seminar conducted by Scott Fawcett at SMU about a year ago. Fawcett is a former pro who uses shot statistics to not only address a player’s weaknesses, but also improve the percentages of shots a player takes.

 

“He's helped me understand the percentages of going for flags, when to go for flags and when not to,” said DeChambeau, who helped the USA win the 2014 World Amateur Team Championship in Japan and reached the Round of 16 in the U.S. Amateur Four-Ball in May.

 

“It's more of a shotgun approach rather than a sniper approach where you can't hit it 5 feet right of the flag every single time. So we try and move that distribution to where you're maximizing your potential of hitting the green every single time.”

 

DeChambeau estimates that the statistical analysis saves him nearly a stroke per round.

 

He also works with newly-crowned ACC Player of the Year Will Zalatoris, other amateurs, and pros.

 

There is a Driving Tutorial on Scott's YouTube channel that is great!

 

 

 

I signed up for DECADE about a month ago and have really enjoyed the content. The stats portal has helped me identify weaknesses I need to work on compared to golfers of my caliber, better and worse.

 

I am looking into getting DECADE, I watched the video on driving strategy and liked the idea. I wish I could go and see one of his seminars to get an idea of whether or not I should get it, but I don't see any in my area. I just want an idea of how the approach shots work I've heard him and other players saying how they play to the fat side of the hole all day and other terms like that, but if that's all it is I don't feel its worth it. Could someone explain the approach portion of his system?

[robrey85]

I am looking into getting DECADE, I watched the video on driving strategy and liked the idea. I wish I could go and see one of his seminars to get an idea of whether or not I should get it, but I don't see any in my area. I just want an idea of how the approach shots work I've heard him and other players saying how they play to the fat side of the hole all day and other terms like that, but if that's all it is I don't feel its worth it. Could someone explain the approach portion of his system?

 

I believe that's paid for content and you're not going to get an answer. You should reach out to Fawcett direct and see if he is willing to divulge information. I will say that I'm seeing a correlation to improved scores and play by following his driving method though. I'd say to just go for it and see how it works out. I mean, you can't play any worse from it, IMHO.

[drewtaylor21]

Stumbled on a really helpful video just now that I thought I would pass on for those of you using Scott's driving strategy. This could make mapping a lot easier!

 

[robrey85]

Stumbled on a really helpful video just now that I thought I would pass on for those of you using Scott's driving strategy. This could make mapping a lot easier!

 

 

Holy crap, genius! I'm going to make sure I make one for Reflection!

[Waterboy]

Scott did the fried egg podcast yesterday so if you are unsure, you might want to tune in. I am going to check it out this AM.

[Climb&Golf]

Here it is. Fantastic podcast. http://www.friedegg.co/podcasts/scott-fawcett

[fawley]

Here it is. Fantastic podcast. http://www.friedegg.co/podcasts/scott-fawcett

 

Listened to this over the last couple of days. Excellent podcast.

 

I'm a couple of months in to my DECADE subscription. I've found it to be pretty good value for the stat tracking and the tutorial videos. My scoring average is down over my last few rounds. I've been hitting the ball better recently, but I think I've also saved a stroke here and there by making better decisions as a result of the DECADE system. Where I have made a double bogey, I can look back at the decisions and see what I should have done differently. For the most part, I tried (and failed) to hit a shot I shouldn't have been hitting in the first place. I'm learning something about my game and course management each time I go back and think through these situations, and hopefully I'll more consistently make better decisions as I move forward.

 

I'm slightly disappointed in the lack of new content and the "for you" content. Although I see some correlation between the personalized content and my game, the videos I've had pushed to me seem a little random. Perhaps I'm just not seeing the correlation for the same reasons I'm still occasionally making poor decisions- a still lacking self awareness about my game.

 

The new content seems few and far between. Maybe everything has been covered that needs to be covered. I have the impression though that the every day, retail subscribers to the system are pretty far down the list of Scott's priorities.

[roll - gybe]

This is really interesting.

 

After having read through the thread, how does the system work for very tight courses. Say 40 yard wide fairways?

[drewtaylor21]

This is really interesting.

 

After having read through the thread, how does the system work for very tight courses. Say 40 yard wide fairways?

 

Depends. Are there penalty hazards on both sides of the FW? If not, the 40 yards part doesn't matter.

 

Find your "shotgun" blast radius (ie, dispersion) and you can plan out the appropriate strategy. Just keep in mind that you should be trying to fit that dispersion between hazards, not into a fairway.

[roll - gybe]

So the system accepts the risk of hitting it into trees, I take it?

[QMany]

This is really interesting.

 

After having read through the thread, how does the system work for very tight courses. Say 40 yard wide fairways?

 

It works well. I played in the Kansas Amateur last week at Kansas City CC, an old tree-lined Tillinghast design. I found myself hitting D more than I would have in the past and that proved successful; I made match play for the first time.

 

So the system accepts the risk of hitting it into trees, I take it?

 

Yes.

[roll - gybe]

Fascinating. I'm trying to get a feel for the system - not trying to get the secret sauce or anything. I'm about a click away from subscribing!

What would be the deal with this hole? It's uphill - distance is important, but it's pretty intimidating.

 

Driver up the green line?

[UCBananaboy]

I may be mistaken but I believe that it would call for a 3w. When you can't hit your driver into a 60y area, then you pull 3 wood and try to hit it straight. That may be a bit too basic of an understanding of the DECADE strategy, but that is what I think it would call for (I assume the red horizontal line at the bend of the hole is your driver dispersion).

[roll - gybe]

Got it - I was wondering just how earth shattering this approach might actually be!!!

[QMany]

That hole is a little crazy! Is that a Par 5?

 

It will depend on distance (off the tee and approach), but at first glance, I would probably hit D there based on that dispersion. 3W dispersion isn't going to be much or any better (in the same cone, just farther back).

 

 

Here is another example I ran into this weekend that demonstrates why I have been hitting D more on tight tree-lined courses than I would pre-DECADE. With this cone, it is 70 yards at 300. Dropping back to 3W, 3Hy, or 4i doesn't really improve your odds, so you might as well bang D. Now if those trees were wider at 270, 240, or 220, it might be different. But on these tree-lined courses with pretty constant widths throughout, bang D often.

[roll - gybe]

That hole is a little crazy! Is that a Par 5?

 

It will depend on distance (off the tee and approach), but at first glance, I would probably hit D there based on that dispersion. 3W dispersion isn't going to be much or any better (in the same cone, just farther back).

 

 

Here is another example I ran into this weekend that demonstrates why I have been hitting D more on tight tree-lined courses than I would pre-DECADE. With this cone, it is 70 yards at 300. Dropping back to 3W, 3Hy, or 4i doesn't really improve your odds, so you might as well bang D. Now if those trees were wider at 270, 240, or 220, it might be different. But on these tree-lined courses with pretty constant widths throughout, bang D often.

 

Yeah, Donald Ross. "Penal School" -- it's a 400 yard uphill par 4. The fairway is 38 yards wide.

 

Thanks for the example. I think that clears up some of my (mis)understanding.

[robrey85]

That hole is a little crazy! Is that a Par 5?

 

It will depend on distance (off the tee and approach), but at first glance, I would probably hit D there based on that dispersion. 3W dispersion isn't going to be much or any better (in the same cone, just farther back).

 

 

Here is another example I ran into this weekend that demonstrates why I have been hitting D more on tight tree-lined courses than I would pre-DECADE. With this cone, it is 70 yards at 300. Dropping back to 3W, 3Hy, or 4i doesn't really improve your odds, so you might as well bang D. Now if those trees were wider at 270, 240, or 220, it might be different. But on these tree-lined courses with pretty constant widths throughout, bang D often.

 

You like banging that D don't you? :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

[UCBananaboy]

I'd recommend you Tweet @ScottFawcett. He'll probably give you an answer as he's quite engaging on Twitter.

[drewtaylor21]

Fascinating. I'm trying to get a feel for the system - not trying to get the secret sauce or anything. I'm about a click away from subscribing!

What would be the deal with this hole? It's uphill - distance is important, but it's pretty intimidating.

 

Driver up the green line?

 

I'd agree with Q here - looks like driver from what we can see. However, I'd want to double check some things first. My first question would be how wide is your cone there, and have you actually tested your dispersion with driver to come up with cone width? 65y is what Scott suggests, but that's based on his own play and high level amateur/pro play (he's a +5 former mini-tour player, aka a stick). I'd strongly suggest actually figuring out what your typical dispersion is and going from there.

 

The only other point of clarification I'd add is that the green line looks like it'd be your target, but remember you're playing to that target based on your own personal shot shape, so you will likely be aiming left or right of the green by a given amount.

 

Finally, you guys should really try the Google Earth mapping approach I linked earlier in the thread! SOOOO much easier than drawing those lines on every hole! lol

[shoot63]

Finally got my 5 rounds of data in yesterday (plus 3 or 4 9-hole rounds). The comparative analysis showed me what I expected - I'm an excellent putter for my level (6 index and many putting stats are in the -0.3 to +0.59, or >+0.59 categories), but the rest of my game stinks.

 

I have a couple of questions for more experienced users.

 

Most proximity and tee categories show "not responsive" in the comparative analysis. Do I just need to enter more data before these categories become functional?

 

How is the "For you" content pushed? I was expecting it would be pushed out automatically based on the stats once sufficient data had been entered, but I still haven't seen anything other than a video on making fewer doubles I received about a week ago.

Proximity on its own doesn't correlate to scoring without having a good short side/long side ratio and greens in regulation. The way we are approaching the Comparative Analysis it wouldn't work for providing an X or a Check.

[shoot63]

I was a Computer Science & Math major back in the day and I work in the Data Science field (advanced statistical analytics and predictive modeling).

 

I developed a stat tracking approach that delivers an ENORMOUS amount of insight compared to DECADE (that is not at all meant as a slam against DECADE as it is an amazing system!). To get all of that extra info however, you have to provide more data. It really is a simple equation - the more info you provide, the better insights you can achieve. Obviously there is a line in the sand somewhere with the info that is collected (e.g. asking how traffic was on the way to the course, while it may prove to be interesting, it is another piece of info that the golfer would need to provide).

 

I have been toying around with turning this into a free app.

 

Truth be told, there isn't much to putting it together. At its core it really is just a straight forward data entry system. The heavy lifting is in the analytics, modeling, and simulations I am doing. The balancing act is collecting as much info as possible without overburdening the golfer.

 

If I move forward with this, I will be looking for some testers to help get through the alpha/beta stages...

Thanks for the kind words!

 

Keeping data entry under 10 minutes was my #1 priority. If it takes longer I would prefer players not even waste the time. I wouldn't even ask my Tour players to enter more as I can get what I need out of ShotLink and what they give me. For college kids to ask them to enter data for 45 minutes after a 36-hole day is a recipe for poor data quality. Even worse would be to have them enter it a few days later when they get home. Guys like you (and me) could probably handle entering it for a longer period of time, but that isn't the norm. For a larger audience I need to cater to the norm.

 

I also agree that the analytics is THE key to the program. I believe that my background with Finance and Economics degrees, professional golf, and semi-professional poker give me a unique lens to view the data through.

[shoot63]

So I signed up for Decade earlier this week and played my first round using the Pinsheet yesterday. Didn't find it that hard to input data during my round, but I probably need to get a scorecard/yardage book cover to keep my sheet in.

 

Couple of questions for other users that someone may be able to answer:

 

1) For the GIR column on a Par 5 when I lay up (which I do 90% of the time) the distance to green do I use the distance from my tee shot or the distance from my layup. I'm pretty sure it's from my layup but might have missed it from my tutorial

2) For the Save column say your approach shot was on the fringe, how are you marking that on the sheet? It's not on the Fairway and it's not on the rough.. also how are people counting putting from the fringe??

 

I am going to send something to Scott but wanted to know how other users are approaching the above

1) Toggle the LAYUP GOOD button and then use the Approach for the rest

2) Fairway is how I would mark it, or if it is just barely on the fringe I would mark GIR. If the fringe was truly a non-factor I just count it as putts. The Tour has an effective green stat as well.

[shoot63]

I ended up purchasing the lite version and while I really really like the videos, there are only about a dozen videos. How many videos are in the elite version? I also received an email earlier this week about updates that were made which included more videos added and better organization. However no changes were made to the lite version. I'm trying to justify whether or not it is worth upgrading to the elite version or not. I appreciate any feedback from you guys.

I'm working on more content for both Lite and Elite. It's been a really hard finding the time to get it all put together. Making videos that are at least somewhat entertaining about golf strategy is about as hard as you would expect!

[shoot63]

Here it is. Fantastic podcast. http://www.friedegg....s/scott-fawcett

 

Listened to this over the last couple of days. Excellent podcast.

 

I'm a couple of months in to my DECADE subscription. I've found it to be pretty good value for the stat tracking and the tutorial videos. My scoring average is down over my last few rounds. I've been hitting the ball better recently, but I think I've also saved a stroke here and there by making better decisions as a result of the DECADE system. Where I have made a double bogey, I can look back at the decisions and see what I should have done differently. For the most part, I tried (and failed) to hit a shot I shouldn't have been hitting in the first place. I'm learning something about my game and course management each time I go back and think through these situations, and hopefully I'll more consistently make better decisions as I move forward.

 

I'm slightly disappointed in the lack of new content and the "for you" content. Although I see some correlation between the personalized content and my game, the videos I've had pushed to me seem a little random. Perhaps I'm just not seeing the correlation for the same reasons I'm still occasionally making poor decisions- a still lacking self awareness about my game.

 

The new content seems few and far between. Maybe everything has been covered that needs to be covered. I have the impression though that the every day, retail subscribers to the system are pretty far down the list of Scott's priorities.

What you say is exactly what I hope to hear from our subscribers. My scores are down and I want more content!

 

Much of the App is designed to help you recognize your mistakes faster in post round thinking. I hope that will lead you to making a better decision the next time you are faced with that same scenario. I believe that is just part of the learning process.

 

I do have a ton of videos that are in progress dating back to the Colonial and Nelson, The U.S. Open and now the British. It has been nearly impossible to keep up with everything, and for that I'm sorry. To be honest, YOU, the retail everyday subscriber are at the TOP of my priorities. If I'm going to make this a legitimate business I need you more than I need Tour players. But, while building a brand I need Tour players in order to give you the confidence this is how the game is played.

 

So it's been tough, I said "yes" to too many Tour players and it is sucking the life out of me. Literally.

 

I've got so many videos in progress and simply need to find the time to get them done. I have all of next week to just churn out content so I hope to get that done for you. What I will say is the tutorial videos really do explain 90% of the system. The follow up videos based on your stats are really just designed to keep you thinking about strategy. If I don't tease you with a little content it will quickly become out of sight-out of mind.

 

Thanks for your feedback and trust me, you are important and I want to make this the only option for stats in golf. We are finalizing a deal with the entire PAC-12 right now that will give us quite a few options with regards to data collection and ideas to improve YOUR game.

 

Great stuff coming!

 

This is really interesting.

 

After having read through the thread, how does the system work for very tight courses. Say 40 yard wide fairways?

Yes it will. I teach you what to look for and then you apply it to your surroundings.

[shoot63]

I'd recommend you Tweet @ScottFawcett. He'll probably give you an answer as he's quite engaging on Twitter.

Thanks Banana! How have you been?

[robrey85]

Just doc you know Scott, drewtaylor21 and I regularly pour our air beers out on the ground for you. Hahah.

[00bolt]

I am curious about the Decade program/app but have a couple questions for those who have or had it. I have watched most the youtube videos and I think I get the basic idea of the shotgun pattern, cone, etc. But my question is in regards to the app itself and stat keeping. I currently have the Arccoss GPS sensors in all my clubs and I do not routinely keep any stats manually. I just play golf and at the end of the round I can go back and see my GIR, fairways hit, up and downs, distances for each club, etc based on the Arccos statistics it keeps.

 

My main interest in the Decade is for the course management aspect. Maybe something to tell me when to go for it, when to lay up, where to aim, etc. But I dont want something that I am going to manually have to keep a bunch more stats. Is that something I would have to do? Is it necessary to do a trackman fitting to find your dispersion for this program? And does the app have the google earth views of the course and your "cone" and stuff built in and live view on each hole youre playing? or even after being a member of the program do you still have to use photoshop and make your own?

[QMany]

My main interest in the Decade is for the course management aspect. Maybe something to tell me when to go for it, when to lay up, where to aim, etc. But I dont want something that I am going to manually have to keep a bunch more stats. Is that something I would have to do?

When I first got DECADE, I had the same thinking: I wanted the course management/strategy content but didn't think I would use the stats portal. In hindsight, the content is great, but the stats have been even better. I'm not familiar with Arcoss, so I don't know what stats it offers. But DECADE has incredible advanced stats. For example, for the Approach section only:

• Total GIR
  
• GIR 75-100 Fairway
  
• GIR 101-150 Fairway
  
• GIR 151-200 Fairway
  
• GIR 201-230 Fairway
  
• GIR Fairway Bunker
  
• GIR Other than Fairway
  
• Left Rough GIR
  
• Right Rough GIR
  
• Proximity 25-75 Fairway
  
• Proximity 75-100 Fairway
  
• Proximity 100-150 Fairway
  
• Scoring Average 75-100 Fairway
  
• Scoring Average 101-150 Fairway
  
• Scoring Average 151-200 Fairway
  
• Scoring Average 201-250 Fairway
  
• Scoring Average 75-100 Rough
  
• Scoring Average 101-150 Rough
  
• Scoring Average 151-200 Rough
  
• Scoring Average 201-250 Rough
  
• Strokes Gained/Round
  
• Strokes Gained 50-75yds
  
• Strokes Gained 76-100yds
  
• Strokes Gained 101-150yds
  
• Strokes Gained 151-200yds
  
• Strokes Gained 201-230yds
  

It has your metrics and then how you compare to peer groups that shoot: <69, 69-71, 72-74, 75-77, 78-80, 81-83, and >83. For me, I can see that I'm gaining +0.06 SG from 50-75 yards but losing -0.11 and -0.14 from 76-100 and 101-150, respectively.

 

Or for another example, my Strokes Gained Putting from <4, 4-8, and 8-10 are pretty solid, but I drop down to -0.23 SGP putting from 10-15. That's evidenced by my make rate which is only 16%, while PGA Tour average is 38-22% from that range. That is something I really need to work on this year.

 

Is it necessary to do a trackman fitting to find your dispersion for this program?

I don't think it is necessary, but I think it is very helpful for driver. Remember it is not just "aiming" but "aiming the middle of your shotgun pattern." So it was helpful for me to see exactly what my shotgun pattern was. I was fortunate enough to have access to a Trackman from a member and friend at my club. I hit 20+ balls at one very specific target and then observed the results. The center of my shotgun was 10 yards right of what I was aimed at. Going forward, I knew that I would want to aim 10 yards left of the middle of my cone.

 

And does the app have the google earth views of the course and your "cone" and stuff built in and live view on each hole youre playing? or even after being a member of the program do you still have to use photoshop and make your own?

It does not have the cone built into the app. I will usually use Google Maps and make a quick Word.doc before competitive rounds. There is a little shortcut using Google Earth and preset cones, but I haven't had as much success as doing it myself. It only takes me about 1-2 minutes per hole.

 

 

[drewtaylor21]

I am curious about the Decade program/app but have a couple questions for those who have or had it. I have watched most the youtube videos and I think I get the basic idea of the shotgun pattern, cone, etc. But my question is in regards to the app itself and stat keeping. I currently have the Arccoss GPS sensors in all my clubs and I do not routinely keep any stats manually. I just play golf and at the end of the round I can go back and see my GIR, fairways hit, up and downs, distances for each club, etc based on the Arccos statistics it keeps.

 

My main interest in the Decade is for the course management aspect. Maybe something to tell me when to go for it, when to lay up, where to aim, etc. But I dont want something that I am going to manually have to keep a bunch more stats. Is that something I would have to do? Is it necessary to do a trackman fitting to find your dispersion for this program? And does the app have the google earth views of the course and your "cone" and stuff built in and live view on each hole youre playing? or even after being a member of the program do you still have to use photoshop and make your own?

 

I'm going to take the other side of the coin from QMany. I find the post-round stat entry annoying and really don't use the analysis much at all, even though it does show you a LOT of great detail. It's just not anything new to me, I already knew what parts of my game needed work from previous stat tracking I'd done on my own and DECADE's stats just confirmed that. I am much more interested in simply applying the course management strategy, so I'm happy just going that route in the future. I think if you haven't done advanced stat tracking before, it would definitely be worth tracking at least 10 rounds just to see what DECADE tells you, but beyond that, I think it's a personal choice.

 

I would agree with Q that finding your true dispersion with driver is crucial. Trackman makes it very easy, but you can do this the old fashioned way as well, either using your driving range and Google earth to find yardages between targets, or going out on the course and hitting shots.

 

I'm a big fan of the Google earth workaround with the pre-set cones, as it makes mapping tee shots on a course very quick and easy. The video link is posted earlier in this thread if you're interested. The hardest part is creating the cone, and I had to have a more tech-savvy friend help me there, but once you have your cone, you can just drag and drop it around and you're all set.

[QMany]

Good stuff, Drew. I logged advanced statistics before but had too much trouble and time with the two interfaces I tried. DECADE really simplified entry for me. I'd agree if you are already keeping advanced statistics (not just putts, GIR, %FW, etc.) it probably isn't necessary.

 

I also like doing my own cone because I can adjust for predictable uphill, downhill, downwind, etc. For example, hitting downhill pointing north in the summer, I'll stretch my cone +310. If I'm playing a tournament in the cold hitting into a north wind, my strategery will be at 265 (D) and 240 (3W) instead of regular 290 and 265.