Diamana Generations and Other Mitsubishi Lines

[mablax12]

Just some random questions. I bring up the diamanas and Mitsubishi in general both because they are extremely popular shafts and because I am in the market for a new one.

 

1. To those familiar with various generations, how much change do you notice between the different generations. Let's say the blue line (though if you have experience with multiple generations of the white or red please advise as well), I would imagine there is quite a bit of difference between the original Blueboard and the B Series. But how does an original Blueboard compare to the newer S+ found on Titleist 915 drivers, which is at a much lower price point than previous generations upon their releases? Could it be said that one is better than the other?

 

2. If anyone has experience with the new Tensei and previous "Blue" profiles, how does this compare to say the Kai'li or B Series?

 

3. What differentiates the different lines especially when some of the profiles can be very similar? I know different tech is supposedly used across different lines, but why not incorporate these different technologies into one "Supershaft?"

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!

[mwink822]

I can't speak to the B-Series Diamana, but I've played the original Blue Board, the Kai'li and the current S+ series (Titleist 915 version). I've also played the White Board and 'ahina. All of them feel remarkably smooth, but with subtle differences in the launch and spin department. The original White Board is probably my all time favorite shaft...definitely the smoothest feeling shaft to produce low launch and spin. The 'ahina definitely felt a tiny bit more stout, but by no means boardy. The original Blue Board felt outstanding as well and produced more of a medium launch and spin combo for me. I really liked the 83 that I had in an R5 driver. The Kai'li keeps the same smooth stable profile, but reduces launch and spin a hair compared to the original Blue Board. It's not White Board or 'ahina low, but definitely lower than the original Blue. The current S+ is very similar to the original Blue Board, but it's been a long enough time since I swung the original Blue that my memory may be a bit foggy. If it makes any difference, I have both an S+ 70 and Kai'li 70 for my 915 driver and prefer the Kai'li for the slightly more stable feeling that results from the ever so slightly stiffer butt.

[Golfrnut]

Not 100% sure I have this correct but I will give it a go. Someone can chime in an correct me if i am off.

 

Original Kai'Li...softest tip section...replaced by the B series

Original BB...stiffer tip section...Replaced by the S+72, 62, etc....replaced by the S+60, 70, etc

Original Whiteboard...stiffest overall of the 3...Replaced with D+72, 62, etc....replaced again by the D+60, 70,etc

 

Out of the three gens of the BB, loved the first, didn't like the second, like the 3rd. I think they went back in the right direction with the latest version. Tip doesn't feel as harsh to me and feels like it has a bit more action. Still not quite the same feel to me as the original, but closer.

 

Keep in mind to, there have been some different iterations as far as Titleist BBs are concerned. There were some "made for" versions that did not have the same bend profile as the MRC OEM versions, so you have to consider which one of those you favored. From what I understand now, the Titleist versions are the same as the OEM.

 

Still have an original Kai'li flowerband. Never hit the newer B series. The original Kai'li, to me, felt exactly like it was supposed to....softer than the BB with a more active tip. One thing that stands out to me are toe hits with the shaft, which makes it feel like the head turns 180 degrees on me. Good feedback, but not a huge fan. My fault though, if I hit it on center where I am supposed to, it's fine.

 

Have only hit the D+ in the second gen. Still have one in my 5 wood in the spare bag. I don't swing hard or with a high tempo, so it doesn't fit me as well, but still works. Feels as it should to me, stiffer than the other two. Works fine for me in a short fairway, would probably not work for me at all in a driver.

[Qegurezi]

Not 100% sure I have this correct but I will give it a go. Someone can chime in an correct me if i am off.

 

Original Kai'Li...softest tip section...replaced by the B series

Original BB...stiffer tip section...Replaced by the S+72, 62, etc....replaced by the S+60, 70, etc

Original Whiteboard...stiffest overall of the 3...Replaced with D+72, 62, etc....replaced again by the D+60, 70,etc

 

None of the + versions replaced anything. There are three series of the full blown shafts. Looking at the Whiteboard and Blueboard we have the originals, the second series - Ka'Li, Ahina , and the 3rd generation - W and B series.

[storm319]

Not 100% sure I have this correct but I will give it a go. Someone can chime in an correct me if i am off.

 

Original Kai'Li...softest tip section...replaced by the B series

Original BB...stiffer tip section...Replaced by the S+72, 62, etc....replaced by the S+60, 70, etc

Original Whiteboard...stiffest overall of the 3...Replaced with D+72, 62, etc....replaced again by the D+60, 70,etc

 

None of the + versions replaced anything. There are three series of the full blown shafts. Looking at the Whiteboard and Blueboard we have the originals, the second series - Ka'Li, Ahina , and the 3rd generation - W and B series.

 

Exactly. The replacement chains are more like this:

 

Blueboard-->Kaili-->B Series

 

MFT Kaili-->1st gen S+-->2nd gen S+

[Golfrnut]

Okay...then I'm thoroughly confused.

 

S+ Description

http://www.mrc-golf....products/s-plus

Refers to BB

 

 

B series

http://www.mrc-golf....oducts/b-series

Refers to Kai'Li

 

D+

http://www.mrc-golf....products/d-plus

Refers to Whiteboard

 

 

 

 

 

In terms of the profiles, many of those aren't anywhere close(Kai'li vs BB etc). Perhaps we are just thinking in different ways to describe which one is a "replacement" vs which ones are closer in profiles to one another? I was leaning more so to which profiles are closer to one another in comparison, and not so much in a timeline. My thought process for comparing may just be different compared to the ways you guys are describing it.

 

I wish I had the new S+ series in there, but unfortunately they are not in the database.

[DaveMac]

There are two distinctive lines (premium and mid price) in the Diamana shaft family that have shared broadly similar bend profiles through the lifespan of the products.

 

Diamana Premium Range

1st Gen: Blueboard, Redboard, Whiteboard

2nd Gen: Kai'li, 'ilima, 'ahina

3rd Gen: B-Series, R-Series, W-Series

 

Diamana Mid Price Range

1st Gen: S+, D+

2nd Gen: S+, M+, D+

 

I have an origional Blueboard and a 2 gen D+, I have also played the 2nd generation S+ and the Kai'l on a number of occasions. The origional Blueboard has a superior feel to the 2 gen D+ S+ which feel slightly harder /crisper (dare I say cheaper) feel in comparison.The newer S+ is a little more counterbalanced which is detectable. In the few times I played the Kai'l it didn't quite have the feel of the blueboard and I did hit it higher than the Blueboard.

 

The Blueboard has a sumptuous, creamy feel but truthfully this does not result in any improved driver numbers. I certainly would like to try the B-Series and W-Series but would find it hard to justify paying this much for a shaft.

[Golfrnut]

At which point to we call them similar/disimilar? I personally would not consider the BB or WB similar in profile. Would say the same for the D+ compared to S+ or any of them in comparison to the Kai'li. I would call them pretty distinctly different profiles IMO. The butt sections start out in the same range, with some small variations, but I would say they differ quite a bit throughout the profile. The feel IMO, matching what the bend profile numbers say the differences would be.

[DaveMac]

I simply ment similar, in a like for like basis, the order I listed the shafts was intended to reflect this.

 

Using the classic, launch classicification:

 

high launch (Redboard, Ilima, R-Series, M+)

mid launch (Blueboard, Kaila, B-Series, S+)

low launch (whiteboard, ahina, W-series, D+)

[Qegurezi]

At which point to we call them similar/disimilar? I personally would not consider the BB or WB similar in profile. Would say the same for the D+ compared to S+ or any of them in comparison to the Kai'li. I would call them pretty distinctly different profiles IMO. The butt sections start out in the same range, with some small variations, but I would say they differ quite a bit throughout the profile. The feel IMO, matching what the bend profile numbers say the differences would be.

 

Mitsubishi call the Kai'Li, Ahina and 'ilima the "Second Generation Series." They are replacements for the original series with minor tweaks in the profile and material. The W, B and R are called "Third Generation Series" and again replace the prior series with minor tweaks in profile and materials.

 

The two + Series are a cheaper shaft that also base themselves around the D and S profiles, but again, with tweaks.

 

Pretty sure they've never tried to match the exact profile of the old generations in the new - there have always been tweaks.

 

Actually i am pretty sure Mitsubishi didn't even list the first + series and did not offer them stand alone like the new + Plus. They were pretty high torque and many claim the latest version is noticably tighter and of a higher standard, tolerances, possibly even materials etc.

[Golfrnut]

TBH, I actually thought the older S+ model was a bit stiffer all around and not as lively. Felt to me like the torque was lower on that model over the newer version. Neither one being as smooth as the original BB, but the second version feeling better IMO. Feel is always so subjective though.

[storm319]

At which point to we call them similar/disimilar? I personally would not consider the BB or WB similar in profile. Would say the same for the D+ compared to S+ or any of them in comparison to the Kai'li. I would call them pretty distinctly different profiles IMO. The butt sections start out in the same range, with some small variations, but I would say they differ quite a bit throughout the profile. The feel IMO, matching what the bend profile numbers say the differences would be.

 

Mitsubishi call the Kai'Li, Ahina and 'ilima the "Second Generation Series." They are replacements for the original series with minor tweaks in the profile and material. The W, B and R are called "Third Generation Series" and again replace the prior series with minor tweaks in profile and materials.

 

The two + Series are a cheaper shaft that also base themselves around the D and S profiles, but again, with tweaks.

 

Pretty sure they've never tried to match the exact profile of the old generations in the new - there have always been tweaks.

 

Actually i am pretty sure Mitsubishi didn't even list the first + series and did not offer them stand alone like the new + Plus. They were pretty high torque and many claim the latest version is noticably tighter and of a higher standard, tolerances, possibly even materials etc.

 

Initially the 1st gen Diamana +Plus line was exclusively available in the Titleist 913 (basically a replacement for the previous MFT Kaili and Ahina). Later they were made available to other OEMs and for aftermarket sale. This line was basically a replacement for their "made for" OEM offerings without the negative stigma.

[Qegurezi]

At which point to we call them similar/disimilar? I personally would not consider the BB or WB similar in profile. Would say the same for the D+ compared to S+ or any of them in comparison to the Kai'li. I would call them pretty distinctly different profiles IMO. The butt sections start out in the same range, with some small variations, but I would say they differ quite a bit throughout the profile. The feel IMO, matching what the bend profile numbers say the differences would be.

 

Mitsubishi call the Kai'Li, Ahina and 'ilima the "Second Generation Series." They are replacements for the original series with minor tweaks in the profile and material. The W, B and R are called "Third Generation Series" and again replace the prior series with minor tweaks in profile and materials.

 

The two + Series are a cheaper shaft that also base themselves around the D and S profiles, but again, with tweaks.

 

Pretty sure they've never tried to match the exact profile of the old generations in the new - there have always been tweaks.

 

Actually i am pretty sure Mitsubishi didn't even list the first + series and did not offer them stand alone like the new + Plus. They were pretty high torque and many claim the latest version is noticably tighter and of a higher standard, tolerances, possibly even materials etc.

 

Initially the 1st gen Diamana +Plus line was exclusively available in the Titleist 913 (basically a replacement for the previous MFT Kaili and Ahina). Later they were made available to other OEMs and for aftermarket sale. This line was basically a replacement for their "made for" OEM offerings without the negative stigma.

 

Absolutely. I think they've upped the ante a teeny bit on the + Plus tho.

[bcflyguy1]

Q is right. The first + line was a departure from the flex profiles that had been associated with the MRC Blue and White. The current + line shafts have bend profiles quite similar to their predecesors and higher priced cousins.

[storm319]

Okay...then I'm thoroughly confused.

 

S+ Description

http://www.mrc-golf....products/s-plus

Refers to BB

 

 

B series

http://www.mrc-golf....oducts/b-series

Refers to Kai'Li

 

D+

http://www.mrc-golf....products/d-plus

Refers to Whiteboard

 

 

 

 

 

In terms of the profiles, many of those aren't anywhere close(Kai'li vs BB etc). Perhaps we are just thinking in different ways to describe which one is a "replacement" vs which ones are closer in profiles to one another? I was leaning more so to which profiles are closer to one another in comparison, and not so much in a timeline. My thought process for comparing may just be different compared to the ways you guys are describing it.

 

I wish I had the new S+ series in there, but unfortunately they are not in the database.

 

Resurrecting this old thread. Does the Wishon db have any more of the Diamana +Plus in stiff flex?

 

S+ 62

D+ 72

S+ 60

S+ 70

D+ 60

D+ 70