Jump to content
2024 Houston Open WITB Photos ×

TM Twist Face Rumor


JStang

Recommended Posts

Did he make a statement of fact or ask the question?

 

Theres a huge difference.

 

And after watching Rick Shiels reviews, where he found twist face actually harmed his game, it would seem reasonable for Tour players to play a non twist face version if thats what they wanted. However, if theres no such version on the list, its likely a non question

 

I like Crossfield, I get his humour. Sure, you can toss away some of his commentary but I like hes not afraid to ruffle a few feathers.

 

If you think every claim that had been thrown at us by the golf companies is true you need to give yourself a good shake. Its 90% BS

 

The major golf equipment OEMs spend a lot of time and money on R&D/product innovation and testing.

 

I was blown away by the commitment and enthusiasm of the TM product development team when I was out there. They're mantra is to make innovative improvements to their products that will provide measurable/tangible performance advantages.

 

It should go without saying given that they must work within the limitations mandated by the ruling bodies that most advances will generally be relatively small and incremental to previous generation products. Twist Face is a perfect example.

 

My personal experience as a low HC player is that Twist Face works as advertised. I have found that my typical nose-diving pull draw miss stays in the air longer and does not dive as far left as it might otherwise do without the tech or with a different OEM's driver. Even 3 or 4 yards of correction can make a significant difference over the course of a round. To dismiss it without having tried it is folly.

 

Major OEMs spend nearly 9x as much on marketing as they do on R&D. Perhaps if they refocused their attention we might get affordable clubs rather than over-priced, re-badged versions of old tech that rarely bring anything new to the table.

 

They have no choice but to spend up on marketing or they wouldn't survive. That fact in no way diminishes the work they do in product innovation. No one's forcing you to spend your money if you believe your old stuff is just as good...

 

I honestly can’t think of any product innovation that has made any real difference that has come out in the last 10 years. I usually wait 2-3 years if not longer to get the ‘next best thing’ when you can still get brand new product at 20% of the cost when they came out...and it’s still just as good ;-)

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
Callaway XR Speed 3W Project X HZRDUS T800 65 Stiff
Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
Cobra King CB/MB Flow 4-6, 7-PW C-Taper Stiff or Mizuno MP4 4-PW
Vokey SM8 52/58; MD Golf 56
Radius Classic 8

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 285
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Can this thread be shut down at this point. It's complete BS.

Titleist TSR3 8* / Fuji Ventus Black TR 6X               

Titleist TSR2+ / Fuji Ventus Black TR 7X               

Callaway UW / Fuji Ventu Black 8X

Edel SMS iron 4-5 / DG TI X100 /////  SMS PRO irons 6-PW / DG TI X100

Edel SMS 50V, 54T, 60T / DG TI S400/ BGT ZNE 130

Edel PROTO




 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 pages in and this is still being debated, LOL.

 

I'm the proud owner of an M4 but there is nothing revolutionary involved in this club.

 

If there was some earth shattering tech every tour pro would be hitting it and don't think otherwise.

TaylorMade M4 9.5 Project X HZRDUS Black 75 6.5
TaylorMade M2 2016 HL Project X HZRDUS Black 65 6.5
TaylorMade GAPR Lo 19 Project X HZRDUS Black 85 6.5
Bridgestone J15 DPF 4 Iron DGS300 Pro
Wilson C300 Forged 5-PW X100
Cleveland CBX 54 & 58 S400
Odyssey Works Tank Cruiser #7 38"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 pages in and this is still being debated, LOL.

 

I'm the proud owner of an M4 but there is nothing revolutionary involved in this club.

 

If there was some earth shattering tech every tour pro would be hitting it and don't think otherwise.

 

not 100% true. there are contracts involved. i would say that the cally epic was almost earth shattering in its tech. not everyone played it. Heck Rory did and then signed with TM. what does that tell you? not that their clubs were better but the had more $$$

Driver: Paradym 3D Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood: Paradym 3d Ventus black TR 7x

19 degree UW: Ventus black TR 8x

Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility Hazrdus black 90 6.5 X

5 -PW: Callaway Apex MB, KBS $ taper 130X

Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

Putter- Mutant Wilson Staff 8802 with stroke lab shaft
BALL; Chrome Soft X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did he make a statement of fact or ask the question?

 

Theres a huge difference.

 

And after watching Rick Shiels reviews, where he found twist face actually harmed his game, it would seem reasonable for Tour players to play a non twist face version if thats what they wanted. However, if theres no such version on the list, its likely a non question

 

I like Crossfield, I get his humour. Sure, you can toss away some of his commentary but I like hes not afraid to ruffle a few feathers.

 

If you think every claim that had been thrown at us by the golf companies is true you need to give yourself a good shake. Its 90% BS

 

The major golf equipment OEMs spend a lot of time and money on R&D/product innovation and testing.

 

I was blown away by the commitment and enthusiasm of the TM product development team when I was out there. They're mantra is to make innovative improvements to their products that will provide measurable/tangible performance advantages.

 

It should go without saying given that they must work within the limitations mandated by the ruling bodies that most advances will generally be relatively small and incremental to previous generation products. Twist Face is a perfect example.

 

My personal experience as a low HC player is that Twist Face works as advertised. I have found that my typical nose-diving pull draw miss stays in the air longer and does not dive as far left as it might otherwise do without the tech or with a different OEM's driver. Even 3 or 4 yards of correction can make a significant difference over the course of a round. To dismiss it without having tried it is folly.

 

Major OEMs spend nearly 9x as much on marketing as they do on R&D. Perhaps if they refocused their attention we might get affordable clubs rather than over-priced, re-badged versions of old tech that rarely bring anything new to the table.

 

They have no choice but to spend up on marketing or they wouldn't survive. That fact in no way diminishes the work they do in product innovation. No one's forcing you to spend your money if you believe your old stuff is just as good...

 

I honestly can’t think of any product innovation that has made any real difference that has come out in the last 10 years. I usually wait 2-3 years if not longer to get the ‘next best thing’ when you can still get brand new product at 20% of the cost when they came out...and it’s still just as good ;-)

 

Spot on.

 

One of the few 5 star videos that Rick Shiels put together was the last 5 years of drivers that OEM have developed. Callaway came up with 24 different models and from the first to the latest the improvement was minimal. The XR16 and the EPIC produced identical numbers.

 

The R & D in reality do come up with some gold nuggets, but when they are only changing paint, acoustics (is that a technology?) and looks every 6 months then it's a scam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This maybe a dumb question but why would they have to have a driver with a less twisted to zero twisted face on the conforming list?

You can alter the loft and lie on a club without having to have each specific club on the list, why could you not have the same twist face driver with less to zero twist in the face.

It's still named a twist face driver, it's just with reduced twist.

Just throwing that out there.

I would think any change to the face has potential to change the COR so would need testing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone help me here...is Twist face just a fancy marketing term for gear affect?

Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 pages in and this is still being debated, LOL.

 

I'm the proud owner of an M4 but there is nothing revolutionary involved in this club.

 

If there was some earth shattering tech every tour pro would be hitting it and don't think otherwise.

 

not 100% true. there are contracts involved. i would say that the cally epic was almost earth shattering in its tech. not everyone played it. Heck Rory did and then signed with TM. what does that tell you? not that their clubs were better but the had more $$$

 

I will grant you that contracts do play a role but if the Epic was going to give Rory 5 more majors he would't have switched and any "normal" PGA Tour player that this would create a decided advantage for would switch in heartbeat. Tiger would hit any driver if it gave him a competitive advantage since the glory is more important than equipment contracts considering most agents would probably say that success will eventual bring in the cash. If you played for free on the tour for 20 years and racked up 5 majors and 30 wins you could write your ticket after that.

TaylorMade M4 9.5 Project X HZRDUS Black 75 6.5
TaylorMade M2 2016 HL Project X HZRDUS Black 65 6.5
TaylorMade GAPR Lo 19 Project X HZRDUS Black 85 6.5
Bridgestone J15 DPF 4 Iron DGS300 Pro
Wilson C300 Forged 5-PW X100
Cleveland CBX 54 & 58 S400
Odyssey Works Tank Cruiser #7 38"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I will grant you that contracts do play a role but if the Epic was going to give Rory 5 more majors he would't have switched and any "normal" PGA Tour player that this would create a decided advantage for would switch in heartbeat. Tiger would hit any driver if it gave him a competitive advantage since the glory is more important than equipment contracts considering most agents would probably say that success will eventual bring in the cash. If you played for free on the tour for 20 years and racked up 5 majors and 30 wins you could write your ticket after that.

 

Are you familiar with Rory’s last 2 contracts? He did write his own ticket.

 

Contracts are guaranteed money. And don’t require a 20 year wait. It’s naive to think that guaranteed money isn’t the most compelling factor in equipment selection for any “normal” PGA Tour player. Most of these guys are good enough to play, and win, with any top OEM’s product. They all make good equipment, but none of them are good enough to guarantee a major win.

 

tldr: cash the check

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All these threads devolve into the same thing.

 

It all depends what you define as "significant". If a driver gives you four extra yards on average, mahonie would say its "minor". Except if you play five times a week, that's about 300 yards per week and if you live in a warm climate that's a whole lot of yards per year. It is about .2 strokes per 10 yards for a mid cap. If you play once every two weeks, its a whole lot less yards per year.

 

The more you play the more incremental improvements in equipment matter. The less you play the less they matter. Anyone who talks about this issue in absolutes (it doesn't help, it always helps) is wrong. Its grey. Like literally everything else in golf, its player-dependent. There is no argument the modern equipment is better, its simply an issue of by how much and by how much those small improvements matter to your game, which is primarily controlled by how often you play.

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

Cameron Phantom 5S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All these threads devolve into the same thing.

 

It all depends what you define as "significant". If a driver gives you four extra yards on average, mahonie would say its "minor". Except if you play five times a week, that's about 300 yards per week and if you live in a warm climate that's a whole lot of yards per year. It is about .2 strokes per 10 yards for a mid cap. If you play once every two weeks, its a whole lot less yards per year.

 

The more you play the more incremental improvements in equipment matter. The less you play the less they matter. Anyone who talks about this issue in absolutes (it doesn't help, it always helps) is wrong. Its grey. Like literally everything else in golf, its player-dependent. There is no argument the modern equipment is better, its simply an issue of by how much and by how much those small improvements matter to your game, which is primarily controlled by how often you play.

 

PSG, I can concur that the more you play is a significant factor in how well you score. Playing 40-50 rounds a year, I maintain a 12 handicap. When work and other circumstances have allowed and I’ve played 70-80 rounds a year, my handicap has dropped to 10 and that is without any changes to equipment. At the start of every year I promise myself that I will play twice a week and I know I will break into single figures but it’s not happened yet with work and weather getting the way. A 4 yard increase in driving distance is not going to have any impact on my scoring, particularly if those 4 yards are gained in the rough.

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
Callaway XR Speed 3W Project X HZRDUS T800 65 Stiff
Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
Cobra King CB/MB Flow 4-6, 7-PW C-Taper Stiff or Mizuno MP4 4-PW
Vokey SM8 52/58; MD Golf 56
Radius Classic 8

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will grant you that contracts do play a role but if the Epic was going to give Rory 5 more majors he would't have switched and any "normal" PGA Tour player that this would create a decided advantage for would switch in heartbeat. Tiger would hit any driver if it gave him a competitive advantage since the glory is more important than equipment contracts considering most agents would probably say that success will eventual bring in the cash. If you played for free on the tour for 20 years and racked up 5 majors and 30 wins you could write your ticket after that.

 

Are you familiar with Rory’s last 2 contracts? He did write his own ticket.

 

Contracts are guaranteed money. And don’t require a 20 year wait. It’s naive to think that guaranteed money isn’t the most compelling factor in equipment selection for any “normal” PGA Tour player. Most of these guys are good enough to play, and win, with any top OEM’s product. They all make good equipment, but none of them are good enough to guarantee a major win.

 

tldr: cash the check

 

I know from people involved with the Rory TM/Cally situation that money was the end all be all decision maker. Callaway got outbid simple as that. Based on results Rory was playing better with the Callaway bag then he is now with TM so you can't argue the equipment made the decision. These guys choose based on $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Titleist TSR3 8* / Fuji Ventus Black TR 6X               

Titleist TSR2+ / Fuji Ventus Black TR 7X               

Callaway UW / Fuji Ventu Black 8X

Edel SMS iron 4-5 / DG TI X100 /////  SMS PRO irons 6-PW / DG TI X100

Edel SMS 50V, 54T, 60T / DG TI S400/ BGT ZNE 130

Edel PROTO




 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will grant you that contracts do play a role but if the Epic was going to give Rory 5 more majors he would't have switched and any "normal" PGA Tour player that this would create a decided advantage for would switch in heartbeat. Tiger would hit any driver if it gave him a competitive advantage since the glory is more important than equipment contracts considering most agents would probably say that success will eventual bring in the cash. If you played for free on the tour for 20 years and racked up 5 majors and 30 wins you could write your ticket after that.

 

Are you familiar with Rory’s last 2 contracts? He did write his own ticket.

 

Contracts are guaranteed money. And don’t require a 20 year wait. It’s naive to think that guaranteed money isn’t the most compelling factor in equipment selection for any “normal” PGA Tour player. Most of these guys are good enough to play, and win, with any top OEM’s product. They all make good equipment, but none of them are good enough to guarantee a major win.

 

tldr: cash the check

 

I know from people involved with the Rory TM/Cally situation that money was the end all be all decision maker. Callaway got outbid simple as that. Based on results Rory was playing better with the Callaway bag then he is now with TM so you can't argue the equipment made the decision. These guys choose based on $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I doubt you could pay Rory enough to use an original TM metal wood. So the equipment needs to be of a certain level. All this shows me is that basically modern clubs have very little variances apart from colour and logo.

I dont think any of the TM endorsees are struggling with the mortgage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more you play the more incremental improvements in equipment matter. The less you play the less they matter. Anyone who talks about this issue in absolutes (it doesn't help, it always helps) is wrong.

 

 

“I think getting advice from guys who are sitting at the computer in their underwear while taking a break from porn is a very solid way to choose clubs.” - bluedot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will grant you that contracts do play a role but if the Epic was going to give Rory 5 more majors he would't have switched and any "normal" PGA Tour player that this would create a decided advantage for would switch in heartbeat. Tiger would hit any driver if it gave him a competitive advantage since the glory is more important than equipment contracts considering most agents would probably say that success will eventual bring in the cash. If you played for free on the tour for 20 years and racked up 5 majors and 30 wins you could write your ticket after that.

 

Are you familiar with Rory’s last 2 contracts? He did write his own ticket.

 

Contracts are guaranteed money. And don’t require a 20 year wait. It’s naive to think that guaranteed money isn’t the most compelling factor in equipment selection for any “normal” PGA Tour player. Most of these guys are good enough to play, and win, with any top OEM’s product. They all make good equipment, but none of them are good enough to guarantee a major win.

 

tldr: cash the check

 

I think you missed my point but I'll frame it in your context. I agree money is the determining factor in what equipment these guys play. My point is that is do to very little difference in the technology. Rory wouldn't play a steel shafted persimmon driver for $5 million more a year. At the end of the day these guys are ultra-competitive and if an OEM brought something to the table that no other company could come close to matching, they'd all be playing it. If TaylorMade, Titleist, Ping and other OEMs only had 275cc drivers and Callaway was the only one offering 440 or bigger, they'd all be playing Callaway

TaylorMade M4 9.5 Project X HZRDUS Black 75 6.5
TaylorMade M2 2016 HL Project X HZRDUS Black 65 6.5
TaylorMade GAPR Lo 19 Project X HZRDUS Black 85 6.5
Bridgestone J15 DPF 4 Iron DGS300 Pro
Wilson C300 Forged 5-PW X100
Cleveland CBX 54 & 58 S400
Odyssey Works Tank Cruiser #7 38"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my question on the twist face is this, if your swing is a normal draw but you hit it off center with a little toe and it was going to be a baby push draw does the twist face now turn that push draw (Mishit) into a push with the open toe effect? Or on the other side of things would it turn a cut off the toe into a slice?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will grant you that contracts do play a role but if the Epic was going to give Rory 5 more majors he would't have switched and any "normal" PGA Tour player that this would create a decided advantage for would switch in heartbeat. Tiger would hit any driver if it gave him a competitive advantage since the glory is more important than equipment contracts considering most agents would probably say that success will eventual bring in the cash. If you played for free on the tour for 20 years and racked up 5 majors and 30 wins you could write your ticket after that.

 

Are you familiar with Rory’s last 2 contracts? He did write his own ticket.

 

Contracts are guaranteed money. And don’t require a 20 year wait. It’s naive to think that guaranteed money isn’t the most compelling factor in equipment selection for any “normal” PGA Tour player. Most of these guys are good enough to play, and win, with any top OEM’s product. They all make good equipment, but none of them are good enough to guarantee a major win.

 

tldr: cash the check

 

I think you missed my point but I'll frame it in your context. I agree money is the determining factor in what equipment these guys play. My point is that is do to very little difference in the technology. Rory wouldn't play a steel shafted persimmon driver for $5 million more a year. At the end of the day these guys are ultra-competitive and if an OEM brought something to the table that no other company could come close to matching, they'd all be playing it. If TaylorMade, Titleist, Ping and other OEMs only had 275cc drivers and Callaway was the only one offering 440 or bigger, they'd all be playing Callaway

 

To be fair though, this is not the position you took in your first post above. The fact that the technology is pretty even across the board is the main reason these OEMs have to pay top dollar for a player and willingly have done so. These players know it guarantees them nothing but money... wins, majors, all have to be earned and none are a sure thing. I do believe they can hit almost anything with success but I also believe there are sometimes clubs that they come across that just don't jive with them... So far, I am wondering how many TM players will be gaming the M3/4 once TM has their next release.... My perception is that it isn't all that great so far, but thats just my perception. Doesn't matter though, they still gettin paid!!!!

Ping G430 10k 9*  Ventus Velocore blue 6x

Ping G430 LST 15* HZRDUS smoke yellow 70s

Ping G430 19* Tour Chrome 2.0 85s

PXG 0211  4i KBS C Taper Lite 115x ss1x

Srixon zx7 mkii 5-7, Z forged ii 8-P KBS C Taper Lite 

Ping s159 50/12s, 54/10h, 58/8b  KBS Tour
Scotty Cameron NP2 Studio Stainless  34"

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will grant you that contracts do play a role but if the Epic was going to give Rory 5 more majors he would't have switched and any "normal" PGA Tour player that this would create a decided advantage for would switch in heartbeat. Tiger would hit any driver if it gave him a competitive advantage since the glory is more important than equipment contracts considering most agents would probably say that success will eventual bring in the cash. If you played for free on the tour for 20 years and racked up 5 majors and 30 wins you could write your ticket after that.

 

Are you familiar with Rory’s last 2 contracts? He did write his own ticket.

 

Contracts are guaranteed money. And don’t require a 20 year wait. It’s naive to think that guaranteed money isn’t the most compelling factor in equipment selection for any “normal” PGA Tour player. Most of these guys are good enough to play, and win, with any top OEM’s product. They all make good equipment, but none of them are good enough to guarantee a major win.

 

tldr: cash the check

 

I think you missed my point but I'll frame it in your context. I agree money is the determining factor in what equipment these guys play. My point is that is do to very little difference in the technology. Rory wouldn't play a steel shafted persimmon driver for $5 million more a year. At the end of the day these guys are ultra-competitive and if an OEM brought something to the table that no other company could come close to matching, they'd all be playing it. If TaylorMade, Titleist, Ping and other OEMs only had 275cc drivers and Callaway was the only one offering 440 or bigger, they'd all be playing Callaway

 

There are a ton of pros playing club X painted like club Y. A web.com pro I won't name plays "Apex Pros" that are nothing like Apex Pros aside from the paint job.

 

Its all nonsense. You guys have to drop this illusion that the M4 is Dustin's bag is the M4 at Dick's or an L grind Vokey from the PGASS is just like the one Jordan is gaming. They do whatever they want and then get paid for the paint job.

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

Cameron Phantom 5S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't call his question out of line. I'm sure that the bulge and roll on each driver could be altered by TM. Back in the persimmon days drivers and woods had their faces customized all the time by players, I have the bulge and roll tools in my shop drawer just for that very purpose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think some people need to do some research on what it means to have a conflict of interest.

 

His actions are seen as questionable when he bags out one OEM for their misleading marketing claims, but remains silent on the other OEM (who he has a financial arrangement with).

 

It’s not a conflict of interest. His sponsorship by titleist is public not private. He isn’t hiding it. If my boss asks me to fabricate a bunch of documents I don’t have a “conflict of interest†because he controls my salary. I have an ethical issue. You can be paid by person X and not follow them blindly. What’s he going to do, recuse himself from equipment reviews?

 

The question isn’t one of a conflict. It’s one of ethics. Just because someone pays you doesn’t mean you do everything you can however underhanded to help them. If his titleist sponsorship motivated these TM comments he has acted unethically, he’s not conflicted.

 

A conflict of interest would be if he took cash from both TM and Titleist promising each to bash the other. You need two interests to have a conflict. He has one interest (titleist) and an ethical quandary (being fair to non-titleist OEMs). Different people can think different things about his ethics but relax on telling people to research. It’s not a CoI.

 

You're absolutely right that it's not a legal conflict of interest, but it is a massive perception and credibility issue that will ultimately hurt his brand. That is what people are really saying.

 

Even if Crossfield reviews non-Titleist products with the utmost neutrality and a lack of bias, doing things like tweeting out this "rumor" will be perceived in a completely different light now due to his Titleist sponsorship. His impartiality will immediately be called into question. It doesn't matter if that's right or not; perception is reality. Many people, including myself, attempted to point this out to him weeks ago on Instagram and received nothing more than a flippant response.

 

For this specific tweet, based on his past history of dust-ups with TaylorMade, it's very hard to believe there was no malice behind the tweet. Otherwise, why even tweet out some unsubstantiated rumor?

 

I'm not going to argue other peoples perceptions, but it has to be said that not everyone perceives things the same way, while you may think he will do damage to his brand, I personally do not. Plenty of people in here hated him before this sponsorship, and I'm sure it didn't help after. It seems like people trying to constantly convince others here how what he is doing is wrong, and it's not that black and white. Of course people are free to believe it but it doesn't make it true. Titleist knew who he was and what he did before signing him, and did so without expecting him to change the way he does things and they both deserve that benefit of the doubt since that is what they are claiming. If people choose not to, well, their choice.

 

As, far as the "rumor" goes.... while it may seem like a shot at TM, how do we know this claim is completely false? There have been conflicting answers in this thread stating other possibilities as far as tour heads go, all it really takes is one head to pop up and that changes the game.... I don't think it's all that far fetched, though, watching Tiger drive the ball it seems the rumor would be a lie.... If Mark did hear this somewhere I think it should create some legitimate discussion. It's just easier to bash the guy since there is no way of actually knowing I guess...

 

Yet you just did. Of course people don't perceive things the same way, but a lot of people have taken MC the way I have. This thread is evidence of that. I also know a lot of people are on MC's side because I used to see them all over social media.

 

There is no alternate Twist Face on tour. We know it's false because a TaylorMade employee who would know responded directly to MC's tweet. Don't continue to keep the rumor going.

 

Because the company that pay's you can't dictate what you say about your product or other companies products? Seems that if someone on this forum can say MC does that - anyone, including a TM employee, can....No?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The driver does what it claims to do IMO. I gamed this this past weekend in 2 day tournament and to say the thing has a tighter dispersion pattern is an understatement. hit 21/28 fairways. hit one badly off the toe and it literally started out down the right first cut of rough and gently drew back in the fairway. by the end of the first round i realized i could go after it as hard as i wanted with the club and i didnt have to worry about a terrible miss nearly as much as with any previous driver(literally any driver i've previously owned from the Powerbilt Citation, through the Ping G2 which was a great club, and most recently the Epic which i didn't hit very straight).

 

So if the pros arent using the Twist Face technology-and Justin Rose flat out says he is-they should be

 

 

Twist on

Driver-Taylormade M3 10.5-1
3-5 Woods-Taylormade M3
Callaway Epic Hybrid 20degree
Irons 4-9- Taylormade P790
Wedges 46,52,60 Vokey SM-7
Putter- Scotty Cameron Newport 3
HCP 2.9

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The driver does what it claims to do IMO. I gamed this this past weekend in 2 day tournament and to say the thing has a tighter dispersion pattern is an understatement. hit 21/28 fairways. hit one badly off the toe and it literally started out down the right first cut of rough and gently drew back in the fairway. by the end of the first round i realized i could go after it as hard as i wanted with the club and i didnt have to worry about a terrible miss nearly as much as with any previous driver(literally any driver i've previously owned from the Powerbilt Citation, through the Ping G2 which was a great club, and most recently the Epic which i didn't hit very straight).

 

So if the pros arent using the Twist Face technology-and Justin Rose flat out says he is-they should be

 

 

Twist on

 

 

and you big miss is low hook id guess? i think it will help the quack hook.. but it makes all open faced misses worse...

Callaway epic max LS 9* GD-M9003 7x 

TM Sim2 max tour  16* GD  ADHD 8x 

srixon zx 19* elements 9F5T 

Cobra king SZ 25.5* KBS TD cat 5 70 

TM p7mc 5-pw Mmt125tx 

Mizuno T22 raw 52-56-60 s400

LAB Mezz Max armlock 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would assume pros don't need Twist Face technology because they hit it in the middle.

 

Theoretically the worse you are the more useful it might be.

 

Mind you, as noted above in reference to the Shiels Callaway test, I'm sure it makes no difference to the pros which driver they play once they have got their launch conditions right.

 

If you browse through the reviews here and at sites like Golfalot, PluggedIn and Golfspy that actually provide LM numbers you'll quickly see that the differences between each year's models are minuscule, as are those for previous years models.

 

It's much like the iron shaft test done on Golfwrx a few years back.

 

We all swear there are big differences. But the numbers suggested otherwise.

 

I'm somewhat interested in the Twistface since my miss is out on the toe and I am a sucker for bogus technology, but having been burned by the Epic hype (now replaced by the Rogue hype) I am skeptical.

Mavrik Fuji Pro

G410/Epic Flash/Fli Hi Hybrids/woods
PXG Gen3 irons
Cleveland wedges
Odyssey Rossie OG 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably been said earlier in the thread but not convinced Twist Face is there to assist Tour Pros - it's more for us mere mortals.

 

I know they say every little helps but I see no reason to upgrade from M1 to M3 / M4 as I don't see it as a real upgrade. Then again, you'd have to be using a pretty old driver to see any major benefit from an upgrade these days. Driver tech is pretty much at it's limits....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would assume pros don't need Twist Face technology because they hit it in the middle.

 

Theoretically the worse you are the more useful it might be.

 

Mind you, as noted above in reference to the Shiels Callaway test, I'm sure it makes no difference to the pros which driver they play once they have got their launch conditions right.

 

If you browse through the reviews here and at sites like Golfalot, PluggedIn and Golfspy that actually provide LM numbers you'll quickly see that the differences between each year's models are minuscule, as are those for previous years models.

 

It's much like the iron shaft test done on Golfwrx a few years back.

 

We all swear there are big differences. But the numbers suggested otherwise.

 

I'm somewhat interested in the Twistface since my miss is out on the toe and I am a sucker for bogus technology, but having been burned by the Epic hype (now replaced by the Rogue hype) I am skeptical.

 

Yes, but it's somewhat akin to the idea that pros won't use a gigantic driver because the larger head/face/sweetspot doesn't matter to them, because they hit it on the button all the time.

 

This was the conversation from some quarters on boards that existed before GWRX got started. And yet history has shown that most professionals moved very quickly to the largest, most forgiving driver they could legally play. I think this is part of the conundrum that the USGA faces, in that they didn't take into account the fact that the larger heads would not only give the players more confidence, but would give them the ability to swing with more speed and effort without the punishing consequences of the smaller head miss.

 

I was in the local Golf Galaxy the other day and saw an old Cobra deep face driver like Tiger used for a period of time early on. No possible way the majority of players in the top 100 can hit that club with the same consistency as a modern 460 (at the same level of kill the pig effort most of them use today). I know the players are talented. I've seen it up close. But I know that something fundamental has changed in the game that isn't right. The strokes gained from distance is beginning to show hitting it long and crooked is better than short and straight.

 

The Tour and USGA could do a way better job reining things in by adjusting the ball a little and reducing the max allowable driver size back to something that looks reasonable compared to the old persimmon driver.

 

Like the 975R. Or the Cobra Deep Face head.

 

With a driver that size, TwistFace is a much less attractive marketing tool. Sorry, Im a bit off topic, but in the spirit of JN's recent comments on the ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is just another example of something that the USGA didn't get out in front of because they just don't have the kind of foresight that an organization needs to maintain the character of the game. They only look at the risks that they anticipate.

 

But to get back on topic, I'd be willing to take the bet that there are TwistFaces that fall within some type of "manufacturing tolerance" that are minimally changed either heel or toe. They are still TwistFace so that everyone at the company can say what they say with a straight face (and I understand the realities of that), but this is not Formula One. This is golf. These players get what they want, marketing VP's be d@mned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Discussion and links to Photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Thorbjorn Olesen - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ben Silverman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jesse Droemer - SoTX PGA Section POY - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      David Lipsky - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Martin Trainer - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Zac Blair - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jacob Bridgeman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB(very mini) - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Callum McNeill - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Rhein Gibson - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 9 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

×
×
  • Create New...