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Getting back to the bump or not, you will find most top players in the world will have some lateral pelvis movement in the transition. Then there is someone like Sadlowski who is probably the longest pound for pound hitter ever with almost zero bump. You can argue he is not a top player but he does prove the bump is not required for power.

 

Sadlowski moves significantly toward the target with his pelvis. I have seen captures from two different systems and it moves right in the backswing, starts left before top of backswing, gets about halfway down and backs up a touch before it begins moving toward the target again. By left arm parallel it's about 4-5 inches forward of where it was at its furthest right position.

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There are swings from good players where the pivot doesn't decelerate until after impact. They are called pitch shots up to about 50 yards. Over that and I am almost willing to call it impossible to do and hit the golf ball.

 

Why "almost willing", not sure?

 

I have never seen it. I don't think it is possible. Theoretically someone might be able to perform it as there is almost always an exception to the rule. Barring any measured data I will maintain it is probably not possible.

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Modern golf instruction is in the dark ages! Motion cannot be taught. It must be learned!!

 

I like this phrase a lot. It may be somewhat like cooking. After understanding a few fundamentals like acids, sugars, starches, etc. and how they interact with one another perhaps some of the best recipes appear after a flurry of spontaneity that was guided by previous fundamentals. My wife does it all the time, she'll come up with a great concoction off the top of her head only to have friends at some later point ask for a recipe.

 

Looking at two great players, Couples and Burke Jr., they both have a common thread. Burke said on the back swing to point the club at the target and allow the finish of the swing to find the back of your neck, with the understanding that everything in between those two objectives is not something to be concerned about. Couples is nearly the same, but is one sided. His one and only priority, at least it was years ago, is to get the club onto his left shoulder as quickly as possible. Funny how the mind will, on its own, coordinate what it needs in both the move away, transition, and beyond, in order to find that quickest route to the left shoulder, not the ball. In the meantime that route, on its own, is accumulating tremendous speed.

 

Again, no need for security blankets which micro-manage reactive mechanics in reverse order of necessity. Good stuff FatReed.

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In my opinion, GG's main concept just tries to solve the issue of many better player's natural instinct to slide, the right shoulder going down, getting dumped under, early extend and hitting either blocks or hooks. His drills to solve these issues seem to work really well and my guess is that the end result could be something what they will measure at AMG as a good swing.

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Here is a 5 year old video from Zach Allen on the lateral move.

 

 

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The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

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Here is a 5 year old video from Zach Allen on the lateral move.

 

 

Solid video. I like the idea of “lagging the shoulder turn”, although I’m sure some people will hate that term. It seems like they don’t like the term “hitting downhill” either. Both are much better description than “bump”. I feel players such as Justin Rose do this really well.

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Johnny Ruiz is a pro golfer who's left hip actually goes backwards away from the target. Literally no bump. Anyone know any other players doing this at a high level? Interesting thread...

Ruiz has significant lateral movement. He keepss the right shoulder low and goes downhill into the swing

 

Note the real swing at 1:30 and how he does the AMG guys downhill move.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

#Kwonified

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Johnny Ruiz is a pro golfer who's left hip actually goes backwards away from the target. Literally no bump. Anyone know any other players doing this at a high level? Interesting thread...

Ruiz has significant lateral movement. He keepss the right shoulder low and goes downhill into the swing

 

Note the real swing at 1:30 and how he does the AMG guys downhill move.

 

Significant? I see it, but it doesn't look like much.

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Some thread here, just what all confused golfers need.

 

First, and in no disparaging terms, we have Monte demonstrating Bump, Dump, and Turn in a video only to later post the video isn't really promoting a bump. Then an AMG video suggests dropping a ball held between the knees, or even by implication dropping a range basket held by the knees, is not a good drill as it may have golfers chase a look by artificially separating the legs as an intent instead of allowing dynamics to produce the appearance.

 

Next we have FtWorthPro defining for us that which makes up a proper lateral motion using current "good" tour players as his opinion and measurement template, making it sound as if there is one, and only one, way to employ lateral motion which we all know is not correct by any stretch. Again, nothing wrong with a claim backed by measured analysis, however to imply, if that was the case, tour players not moving laterally in that manner would not be "good" players simply fails to recognize tour players from other eras. It's also interesting that Monte's Bump and Dump video would be type movement not anywhere close to what FtWorthPro is suggesting good players do. They seem to stand in complete opposition, which is fine too.

 

As for AMG, in my estimation nothing more than pure unadulterated marketing overkill. Now if AMG can start to address some of the type questions presented by juststeve, then I'm listening.

Good post, I'm glad I read the whole thing. I agree the AMG videos are starting to feel very much like marketing. Mike G we know you still check in here, I suggest a little bit of the "how" and not just telling us what happens in "high level" players.

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It looks like the lateral move happens after the rotation, not before.

 

It's like he ends up inside his target leg, while most people finish on fully on the target leg or beyond

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Some thread here, just what all confused golfers need.

 

First, and in no disparaging terms, we have Monte demonstrating Bump, Dump, and Turn in a video only to later post the video isn't really promoting a bump. Then an AMG video suggests dropping a ball held between the knees, or even by implication dropping a range basket held by the knees, is not a good drill as it may have golfers chase a look by artificially separating the legs as an intent instead of allowing dynamics to produce the appearance.

 

Next we have FtWorthPro defining for us that which makes up a proper lateral motion using current "good" tour players as his opinion and measurement template, making it sound as if there is one, and only one, way to employ lateral motion which we all know is not correct by any stretch. Again, nothing wrong with a claim backed by measured analysis, however to imply, if that was the case, tour players not moving laterally in that manner would not be "good" players simply fails to recognize tour players from other eras. It's also interesting that Monte's Bump and Dump video would be type movement not anywhere close to what FtWorthPro is suggesting good players do. They seem to stand in complete opposition, which is fine too.

 

As for AMG, in my estimation nothing more than pure unadulterated marketing overkill. Now if AMG can start to address some of the type questions presented by juststeve, then I'm listening.

Good post, I'm glad I read the whole thing. I agree the AMG videos are starting to feel very much like marketing. Mike G we know you still check in here, I suggest a little bit of the "how" and not just telling us what happens in "high level" players.

 

All YouTube instruction is marketing. If you want something specific from someone then pay them.

 

Some thread here, just what all confused golfers need.

 

First, and in no disparaging terms, we have Monte demonstrating Bump, Dump, and Turn in a video only to later post the video isn't really promoting a bump. Then an AMG video suggests dropping a ball held between the knees, or even by implication dropping a range basket held by the knees, is not a good drill as it may have golfers chase a look by artificially separating the legs as an intent instead of allowing dynamics to produce the appearance.

 

Next we have FtWorthPro defining for us that which makes up a proper lateral motion using current "good" tour players as his opinion and measurement template, making it sound as if there is one, and only one, way to employ lateral motion which we all know is not correct by any stretch. Again, nothing wrong with a claim backed by measured analysis, however to imply, if that was the case, tour players not moving laterally in that manner would not be "good" players simply fails to recognize tour players from other eras. It's also interesting that Monte's Bump and Dump video would be type movement not anywhere close to what FtWorthPro is suggesting good players do. They seem to stand in complete opposition, which is fine too.

 

As for AMG, in my estimation nothing more than pure unadulterated marketing overkill. Now if AMG can start to address some of the type questions presented by juststeve, then I'm listening.

Good post, I'm glad I read the whole thing. I agree the AMG videos are starting to feel very much like marketing. Mike G we know you still check in here, I suggest a little bit of the "how" and not just telling us what happens in "high level" players.

 

All YouTube instruction is marketing. If you want something specific from someone then pay them.

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In my opinion, GG's main concept just tries to solve the issue of many better player's natural instinct to slide, the right shoulder going down, getting dumped under, early extend and hitting either blocks or hooks. His drills to solve these issues seem to work really well and my guess is that the end result could be something what they will measure at AMG as a good swing.

 

Is sliding a natural instinct, or a reflexive reaction to being out of balance, or other condition?

 

Has AMG become the nation's clearing house among the tech crowd on what is, or what isn't, a good swing?

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Some thread here, just what all confused golfers need.

 

First, and in no disparaging terms, we have Monte demonstrating Bump, Dump, and Turn in a video only to later post the video isn't really promoting a bump. Then an AMG video suggests dropping a ball held between the knees, or even by implication dropping a range basket held by the knees, is not a good drill as it may have golfers chase a look by artificially separating the legs as an intent instead of allowing dynamics to produce the appearance.

 

Next we have FtWorthPro defining for us that which makes up a proper lateral motion using current "good" tour players as his opinion and measurement template, making it sound as if there is one, and only one, way to employ lateral motion which we all know is not correct by any stretch. Again, nothing wrong with a claim backed by measured analysis, however to imply, if that was the case, tour players not moving laterally in that manner would not be "good" players simply fails to recognize tour players from other eras. It's also interesting that Monte's Bump and Dump video would be type movement not anywhere close to what FtWorthPro is suggesting good players do. They seem to stand in complete opposition, which is fine too.

 

As for AMG, in my estimation nothing more than pure unadulterated marketing overkill. Now if AMG can start to address some of the type questions presented by juststeve, then I'm listening.

Good post, I'm glad I read the whole thing. I agree the AMG videos are starting to feel very much like marketing. Mike G we know you still check in here, I suggest a little bit of the "how" and not just telling us what happens in "high level" players.

 

All YouTube instruction is marketing. If you want something specific from someone then pay them.

 

Some thread here, just what all confused golfers need.

 

First, and in no disparaging terms, we have Monte demonstrating Bump, Dump, and Turn in a video only to later post the video isn't really promoting a bump. Then an AMG video suggests dropping a ball held between the knees, or even by implication dropping a range basket held by the knees, is not a good drill as it may have golfers chase a look by artificially separating the legs as an intent instead of allowing dynamics to produce the appearance.

 

Next we have FtWorthPro defining for us that which makes up a proper lateral motion using current "good" tour players as his opinion and measurement template, making it sound as if there is one, and only one, way to employ lateral motion which we all know is not correct by any stretch. Again, nothing wrong with a claim backed by measured analysis, however to imply, if that was the case, tour players not moving laterally in that manner would not be "good" players simply fails to recognize tour players from other eras. It's also interesting that Monte's Bump and Dump video would be type movement not anywhere close to what FtWorthPro is suggesting good players do. They seem to stand in complete opposition, which is fine too.

 

As for AMG, in my estimation nothing more than pure unadulterated marketing overkill. Now if AMG can start to address some of the type questions presented by juststeve, then I'm listening.

Good post, I'm glad I read the whole thing. I agree the AMG videos are starting to feel very much like marketing. Mike G we know you still check in here, I suggest a little bit of the "how" and not just telling us what happens in "high level" players.

 

All YouTube instruction is marketing. If you want something specific from someone then pay them.

 

Yes I know, but they have no free how to videos. They're probably doing fine, its just a suggestion. I lost interest in how well someone can analyze gears. That's all the videos are about. I watched a half hour video of there's about how early extension is ok but didn't learn anything. I'm not getting their marketing style.

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Their marketing style is that we have information you don’t..and we aren’t giving you any how to’s without $. Which is absolutely their right..they paid for the equipment etc.

 

All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after’s. That’s why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

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I like the AMG stuff.

 

I went to a few Jim Hardy and Shane LeBaron clinics and things like the hand path and lateral motion match up with the AMG videos

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Their marketing style is that we have information you don’t..and we aren’t giving you any how to’s without $. Which is absolutely their right..they paid for the equipment etc.

 

All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after’s. That’s why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

 

I think they have their own signature swing models. Each of them have a few things they emphasize, you can't mix because they're different swings

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All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after's. That's why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

 

Therein lies the problem. Any instructor that wants a student to swing like "they want them to" is on a cash grab mission. The swing is inside the student, and there are several ways. It's up to the instructor to pull a personal swing out of the student from inside, reduce the noise if you will. No need to be a trained monkey.

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Their marketing style is that we have information you don’t..and we aren’t giving you any how to’s without $. Which is absolutely their right..they paid for the equipment etc.

 

All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after’s. That’s why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

 

The reason they do this is because the internet instructors say things like "This Tour player does it like this" and they could tell using Gears it wasn't true

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Some thread here, just what all confused golfers need.

 

First, and in no disparaging terms, we have Monte demonstrating Bump, Dump, and Turn in a video only to later post the video isn't really promoting a bump. Then an AMG video suggests dropping a ball held between the knees, or even by implication dropping a range basket held by the knees, is not a good drill as it may have golfers chase a look by artificially separating the legs as an intent instead of allowing dynamics to produce the appearance.

 

Next we have FtWorthPro defining for us that which makes up a proper lateral motion using current "good" tour players as his opinion and measurement template, making it sound as if there is one, and only one, way to employ lateral motion which we all know is not correct by any stretch. Again, nothing wrong with a claim backed by measured analysis, however to imply, if that was the case, tour players not moving laterally in that manner would not be "good" players simply fails to recognize tour players from other eras. It's also interesting that Monte's Bump and Dump video would be type movement not anywhere close to what FtWorthPro is suggesting good players do. They seem to stand in complete opposition, which is fine too.

 

As for AMG, in my estimation nothing more than pure unadulterated marketing overkill. Now if AMG can start to address some of the type questions presented by juststeve, then I'm listening.

Good post, I'm glad I read the whole thing. I agree the AMG videos are starting to feel very much like marketing. Mike G we know you still check in here, I suggest a little bit of the "how" and not just telling us what happens in "high level" players.

 

Good Point All AMG does that i see is interprete what they see in there better players. Zero video's about improving players, all i see is pull arms down....

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All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after's. That's why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

 

Therein lies the problem. Any instructor that wants a student to swing like "they want them to" is on a cash grab mission. The swing is inside the student, and there are several ways. It's up to the instructor to pull a personal swing out of the student from inside, reduce the noise if you will. No need to be a trained monkey.

 

You just don’t understand the reasons behind why instructors want to see certain things in a swing. I would bet that you have a very mediocre swing that maybe you grooved to be somewhat consistent. That’s the kind of swing most people “have inside them.”

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All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after's. That's why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

 

Therein lies the problem. Any instructor that wants a student to swing like "they want them to" is on a cash grab mission. The swing is inside the student, and there are several ways. It's up to the instructor to pull a personal swing out of the student from inside, reduce the noise if you will. No need to be a trained monkey.

 

You just don't understand the reasons behind why instructors want to see certain things in a swing. I would bet that you have a very mediocre swing that maybe you grooved to be somewhat consistent. That's the kind of swing most people "have inside them."

 

You're correct using the label mediocre, that's why I enjoy listening to tour tested minds on what's important, and what isn't. Here's two lads with 36 tour wins and 3 major wins between them spending quality range time together. Again, if throwing a club, or as Jackie Burke describes in the video, is a wrong way to, at least, begin to examine what's important and what isn't I'm not sure what would be. Actually, I do know but it may be a mediocre comment about mass seeking force so I'll abstain. Video with first hand accounting can state the idea far better than I can, enjoy:

[media=]

[/media]
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All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after's. That's why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

 

Therein lies the problem. Any instructor that wants a student to swing like "they want them to" is on a cash grab mission. The swing is inside the student, and there are several ways. It's up to the instructor to pull a personal swing out of the student from inside, reduce the noise if you will. No need to be a trained monkey.

 

You just don't understand the reasons behind why instructors want to see certain things in a swing. I would bet that you have a very mediocre swing that maybe you grooved to be somewhat consistent. That's the kind of swing most people "have inside them."

 

You're correct using the label mediocre, that's why I enjoy listening to tour tested minds on what's important, and what isn't. Here's two lads with 36 tour wins and 3 major wins between them spending quality range time together. Again, if throwing a club, or as Jackie Burke describes in the video, is a wrong way to, at least, begin to examine what's important and what isn't I'm not sure what would be. Actually, I do know but it may be a mediocre comment about mass seeking force so I'll abstain. Video with first hand accounting can state the idea far better than I can, enjoy:

[media=]

[/media]

 

Blasphemy CoiledUp!!!

 

If JB and Elk would only get on 3D, they would see they aren’t doing what they think they are doing.

 

Better yet, if they could see what other players are doing on 3D, they would know what they should be doing.

 

No wonder SITD went under. . . or morphed into a more private setting.

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All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after's. That's why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

 

Therein lies the problem. Any instructor that wants a student to swing like "they want them to" is on a cash grab mission. The swing is inside the student, and there are several ways. It's up to the instructor to pull a personal swing out of the student from inside, reduce the noise if you will. No need to be a trained monkey.

 

That's what golf instruction is, guys like Dana and Cameron and then internet instructors like George Gankas, RBImGuy, Monte, and Christo are teaching you what works for them. That's usually enough to help their students play well so it's money well spent.

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All the information in the world is useless, unless you can effectively communicate it. I never see any before and after's. That's why dan, gg, and dana among others are great. The can take pretty much anyone and given enough time they can get them swinging how they want them to.

 

Therein lies the problem. Any instructor that wants a student to swing like "they want them to" is on a cash grab mission. The swing is inside the student, and there are several ways. It's up to the instructor to pull a personal swing out of the student from inside, reduce the noise if you will. No need to be a trained monkey.

 

How do you figure? What if the teachers wants them to swing the best version of themselves. Just because a teacher gets them to swing “how they want them to” doesn’t mean they want all their students to swing the same

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      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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