Is pursuing a golf career worth it anymore?

[tocino]

The real money is in setting up a junior tour. Go to clubs get dates and over charge parent for kids to play on your "prestigious" tour.

 

Parents are great. If there kid can't compete at AJGA they will go to HJGA or IJGT, etc.

 

This is also a solid idea.

 

more solid than you think. I know a guy who setup a basketball rec league so him and his boys could play something a little more competitive than street ball in a nice gym inside. It got so big he now has multiple skill levels and age ranges. he also runs 3-4 seasons a year. I could totally see this working for junior golf, especially if you live in an area where you can play year-round

[braincramp52]

I've sold to golf course superintendents for over 30 years so I've gotten to know quite a few teaching pros also. One thing that everyone of them will tell you is that you don't get in the golf industry to make a lot of money. You do it because you love golf. Long hours and little pay.

[BMC]

PGA Club Pro (more likely Asst. Golf Pro) Classroom time, internship, pass the PAT. That stuff take time and effort.

 

Your starting pay at decent facility - $25k plus part of the fee from the very few (initially) lessons you give. There are quite a few of these jobs available.

 

Is it worth it?

 

A) Yes, if you have a good personality, can help improve student's games, and like helping others.

 

B) Yes. If you're in line to receive a Million dollar inheritance.

 

I work at a large, upscale club with 8 assistant PGA certified pros. Several make a good living and several don't.

 

Like others have stated, if you love playing golf, don't get in the golf business....unless that inheritance is coming in soon.

[golfandfishing]

PGA Club Pro (more likely Asst. Golf Pro) Classroom time, internship, pass the PAT. That stuff take time and effort.

 

Your starting pay at decent facility - $25k plus part of the fee from the very few (initially) lessons you give. There are quite a few of these jobs available.

 

Is it worth it?

 

A) Yes, if you have a good personality, can help improve student's games, and like helping others.

 

B) Yes. If you're in line to receive a Million dollar inheritance.

 

I work at a large, upscale club with 8 assistant PGA certified pros. Several make a good living and several don't.

 

Like others have stated, if you love playing golf, don't get in the golf business....unless that inheritance is coming in soon.

 

8 assistant pros? What on earth for? They are all pga members, none are apprentices?

[TerpFangolfer]

PGA Club Pro (more likely Asst. Golf Pro) Classroom time, internship, pass the PAT. That stuff take time and effort.

 

Your starting pay at decent facility - $25k plus part of the fee from the very few (initially) lessons you give. There are quite a few of these jobs available.

 

Is it worth it?

 

A) Yes, if you have a good personality, can help improve student's games, and like helping others.

 

B) Yes. If you're in line to receive a Million dollar inheritance.

 

I work at a large, upscale club with 8 assistant PGA certified pros. Several make a good living and several don't.

 

Like others have stated, if you love playing golf, don't get in the golf business....unless that inheritance is coming in soon.

 

8 assistant pros? What on earth for? They are all pga members, none are apprentices?

 

He said "large upscale" - definitely possible. If they have 36 or even 54 holes => a Dir of Golf + 1 head pro & 1 asst for each course and a couple others for the teaching facility...

[golfandfishing]

And they are all pga members? No apprentices? This club better have 4 courses in at least 2 golf shops and a golf academy.

 

Edit - even in your equation the math doesn’t add up. 54 holes gets 2 assistant pros per course plus 2 for the teaching facility. Overhead nightmare.

[jmck]

Yeah, in my head it's 36+ holes. One director of golf and one head pro who each do half the GM's job, one a** pro for each course, one who just teaches (that's the one lucky one, assuming he hasn't gotten burnt out after 20+ years of fixing -200 yard banana slices), one each for the men's ladies' and kid's league stuff, plus a guy or two to deal with event sales, marketing and F&B.

 

They're all dues paying PGA members because you kind of have to be, right? You need that logo next to your name, so you pay for it, along with all the "continuing education" needed. Meanwhile the apprentices are out in the parking lot trying to shiv each other over the chance to make $24k at such a highly regarded facility with the hope that in a year or two they can move on to becoming dues paying PGA members somewhere else running the weekly ladies' nine and dine.....

 

Or maybe I'm just a hopeless pessimist?

[Ferguson]

I've sold to golf course superintendents for over 30 years so I've gotten to know quite a few teaching pros also. One thing that everyone of them will tell you is that you don't get in the golf industry to make a lot of money. You do it because you love golf. Long hours and little pay.

 

 

This is true.

 

But.............You can still love golf and have a better quality of life, by not working in the golf industry.

[golfandfishing]

A 36 hole facility has no need for the structure above. A GM or Director of Golf that knows club operations, not both. A Head Pro. 2 apprentices for assistants. An hourly shop assistant for retail sales and checking in golfers when necessary. Toss in a guy or two pre apprentice to manage the outside club scrubbers. Even this level of staffing is on the luxury side.

 

8 assistant pros to support a GM, DOG and HP is simply asking for budget issues, layoffs, turnover, general disgruntlement and disengagement between staff and members/customers.

 

I know there are rare exceptions like Desert Mountain or The Villages that are basically golf cities with 5 courses, 5 clubhouses, etc that require staff counts like this. But even a 54 hole resort facility with a membership component does not require 8 assistant pros.

[jmck]

A 36 hole facility has no need for the structure above. A GM or Director of Golf that knows club operations, not both. A Head Pro. 2 apprentices for assistants. An hourly shop assistant for retail sales and checking in golfers when necessary. Toss in a guy or two pre apprentice to manage the outside club scrubbers. Even this level of staffing is on the luxury side.

 

8 assistant pros to support a GM, DOG and HP is simply asking for budget issues, layoffs, turnover, general disgruntlement and disengagement between staff and members/customers.

 

I know there are rare exceptions like Desert Mountain or The Villages that are basically golf cities with 5 courses, 5 clubhouses, etc that require staff counts like this. But even a 54 hole resort facility with a membership component does not require 8 assistant pros.

 

Oh I completely agree with you, but in your time you must have come across a few joints that were stunningly poorly run. My post was kind of tongue in cheek taking a poorly run place to the limits of hyperbole. Maybe the guy who originally posted about having eight actual a** pros will chime in again and explain exactly what's going on there? You'd assume that they're having at least a modicum of success there if they haven't gotten turned into a subdivision yet, right? Who knows, maybe that's the one place that's got it figured out to the point where they can support a truly luxurious level of staffing?

[Mike_C]

I toyed with the idea of a getting into the golf industry coming out of college in the 1980s, I had always thought about doing it as a kid and when I was in school. I was a decent high school/DIII college player but knew I didn't have the game to be a touring pro but thought I would like to maybe be a teaching pro or the like. However, I finally spent one summer working at a course in the pro shop and it really hit me that taking something I really enjoyed doing and making it a job changes it. I found I like golf much more as a hobby than a career. I could play all the free golf I wanted when my shift was over, but I probably played less golf that summer than I had all the years in HS and college. When I was done, I just wanted to get out of the place. I'm sure everybody's experience would be different and maybe I just had a bad experience, but it definitely changed my mind.

 

Just my 2 cents....

[Ferguson]

Post Breakdown by Ferg

 

 

Recently getting back into golf after letting some dust collect on the clubs for two years. I'm 29 and have been playing pretty much my entire life. I'm currently in the middle of exploring a career change, and evaluating whether or not a career in golf is worth pursuing. I'm mainly thinking of the following options: Do you have college? If so, what degree?

 

 

- Playing pro...obviously. (I know I've got a TON of work to even make it on the minis.) This is the ultimate dream, but I know, in reality, it probably won't happen. If it hasn’t happened by now, it’s not going to happen.

 

 

- Teaching pro. I've given informal lessons, and I can't tell you how many swing tips friends have asked for in my life. I'm fairly proficient at analyzing swings and dissecting the problems. I used to work at a top 100 U.S course as basically a peon. One day our teaching pro came out and we were just watching people hit on the range. He asked me about three different swings and I told him about all of them. He basically said, "Yeah those are all correct. Now, I've gotta go teach that first person a lesson, and I'm going to teach him exactly what you just pointed out."

I once showed my neighbor how to install a dimmer for a light fixture, helped another one change the battery in his car and made suggestions to my other neighbor for a better lawn. That doesn’t mean I am an electrician, car mechanic or a landscaper.

 

 

- Club Pro. I've worked a ton of customer service jobs, so I'm pretty proficient in that skill. I've also run my own business for 6+ years, so I get the business side of things. If you get the “business” side of things, then do the math. $ 50-55K per year @ 70+ hours per week for 50 weeks = 3500+ hours per year, plus commute. That’s like $15-16/hr.

 

 

- Equipment Rep. I'm not a huge fan of sales, but I'm sure there's some jobs in the equipment industry that doesn't involve cold calls and sales.

All people are salespeople in one way or another. If you have ever convinced someone your idea was right – you sold it.

 

 

The main thing I'm wondering is when I look out 20-30 years from now, I really don't see golf being in a good place. I know that a ton of the money spent on golf is by people over 60, so when they die or get too old to play, what will take their place? Will people my age pick up the slack?

Golf is not in a good place now. 20-30 from now is too late.

 

 

 

My wife and I are in a decent financial position. We have a few student loans, but that's about it. She is in a stable industry that won't be going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Basically, I'd love to find a career that I can make around 50-60k in and be happy. We don't have a luxurious lifestyle, so with her income plus my 50-60k, we should be able to save up enough to retire before we are 80....hopefully

This has nothing to do with your wife. This has something to do with YOU picking a direction. Put on your big boy pants, pick a career direction and work your butt off.

 

 

I've got enough talent/resources to be able to pass the PAT and all the PGA certification stuff, but just wondering if it's really worth it if I'll be in a career crisis when I'm 55 years old. Any of you guys pondering these thoughts? I mean, maybe we can just hope Tiger wins majors until he's 60, then we'll be all good.

 

Sounds like you’re in a rut. No big deal. It happens to a lot of people around age 30. At 30 people either have a pretty good compass for what’s coming in life or they’re a little lost. It’s not uncommon. Just think twice before making a decision to pursue a career in golf. Do some “informational” interviews with people in several different vocations. People love to tell their story. You might just find something in an area of work that you never considered before.

 

 

Good luck.

[jslane57]

Pursuing any career is worth it. Golf included. Will you end up there? Will you enjoy it? Will it last? Those are either up to you or out of your control, and the exact same questions that come up for any career a person chooses to pursue. Good Luck!

[Z1ggy16]

If you can land a job you love and get paid a salary (guaranteed money) then I'd say do it. If you're thinking of a path where you rely on commission, winnings, etc etc (something not guaranteed) and the service/good is inelastic (which I'd think golf is), then I might shy away from it. When economy does bad or other alternatives come up, prices and business on those goods tend to go down.

 

Nobody can predict where the economy is going long term but I'm somewhat confident if the trend continues, future generations will be golfing less and less, simply because it won't be affordable.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Besides real estate, banking, investment advisor, sales, become a paid fireman or paramedic. Lots of days off, good pay, great benefits-- so plenty of time go golf, teach or some other part time job in the industry.

[disco111]

Read Ferguson's post slowly and more than once...................I will add, since your married and the wife has a stable platform, be very careful of what her expectations for you/about you are or will be. I've seen far to many guy's with your same/similar situation and it did not turn out well.

[nealkb]

You could always look at other aspects of golf too, like alcohol, beverage, equipment. etc and work your way into the industry that way. A lot of the courses I get to play at are because my parents are very well connected in the retail world. I know a lot of sales reps in retail related industries that get to travel quite a bit to go to the charity tournaments. Could work your way up too

[jmck]

Read Ferguson's post slowly and more than once...................I will add, since your married and the wife has a stable platform, be very careful of what her expectations for you/about you are or will be. I've seen far to many guy's with your same/similar situation and it did not turn out well.

 

Yeah, I agree with everything Fergie said in his post breakdown, excepting the wife bit. Once married, career choices (and income/expenses in general) need to be discussed honestly and openly, and decisions about the same made at something that approaches 50/50. Marriage is a partnership.

[lumberman2462]

This is just an observation and not advice....

 

28 - 32 seems to be the age that most of the Club Pros are getting out of the golf business. We've lost two assistants at my club in the past few years to business. One to real estate and the other to a job in his father-in-law's business.

 

My former club was a pretty big operation. 36 holes, par 3 course and nice learning center. We had a lot of staff and 7-10 years after college always seemed to be the age guys at the assistant level were getting out.

 

There are some good high paying jobs at bit time public and private courses....but there aren't that many out there.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Post Breakdown by Ferg

 

 

Recently getting back into golf after letting some dust collect on the clubs for two years. I'm 29 and have been playing pretty much my entire life. I'm currently in the middle of exploring a career change, and evaluating whether or not a career in golf is worth pursuing. I'm mainly thinking of the following options: Do you have college? If so, what degree?

 

 

- Playing pro...obviously. (I know I've got a TON of work to even make it on the minis.) This is the ultimate dream, but I know, in reality, it probably won't happen. If it hasn’t happened by now, it’s not going to happen.

 

 

- Teaching pro. I've given informal lessons, and I can't tell you how many swing tips friends have asked for in my life. I'm fairly proficient at analyzing swings and dissecting the problems. I used to work at a top 100 U.S course as basically a peon. One day our teaching pro came out and we were just watching people hit on the range. He asked me about three different swings and I told him about all of them. He basically said, "Yeah those are all correct. Now, I've gotta go teach that first person a lesson, and I'm going to teach him exactly what you just pointed out."

I once showed my neighbor how to install a dimmer for a light fixture, helped another one change the battery in his car and made suggestions to my other neighbor for a better lawn. That doesn’t mean I am an electrician, car mechanic or a landscaper.

 

 

- Club Pro. I've worked a ton of customer service jobs, so I'm pretty proficient in that skill. I've also run my own business for 6+ years, so I get the business side of things. If you get the “business” side of things, then do the math. $ 50-55K per year @ 70+ hours per week for 50 weeks = 3500+ hours per year, plus commute. That’s like $15-16/hr.

 

 

- Equipment Rep. I'm not a huge fan of sales, but I'm sure there's some jobs in the equipment industry that doesn't involve cold calls and sales.

All people are salespeople in one way or another. If you have ever convinced someone your idea was right – you sold it.

 

 

The main thing I'm wondering is when I look out 20-30 years from now, I really don't see golf being in a good place. I know that a ton of the money spent on golf is by people over 60, so when they die or get too old to play, what will take their place? Will people my age pick up the slack?

Golf is not in a good place now. 20-30 from now is too late.

 

 

 

My wife and I are in a decent financial position. We have a few student loans, but that's about it. She is in a stable industry that won't be going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Basically, I'd love to find a career that I can make around 50-60k in and be happy. We don't have a luxurious lifestyle, so with her income plus my 50-60k, we should be able to save up enough to retire before we are 80....hopefully

This has nothing to do with your wife. This has something to do with YOU picking a direction. Put on your big boy pants, pick a career direction and work your butt off.

 

 

I've got enough talent/resources to be able to pass the PAT and all the PGA certification stuff, but just wondering if it's really worth it if I'll be in a career crisis when I'm 55 years old. Any of you guys pondering these thoughts? I mean, maybe we can just hope Tiger wins majors until he's 60, then we'll be all good.

 

Sounds like you’re in a rut. No big deal. It happens to a lot of people around age 30. At 30 people either have a pretty good compass for what’s coming in life or they’re a little lost. It’s not uncommon. Just think twice before making a decision to pursue a career in golf. Do some “informational” interviews with people in several different vocations. People love to tell their story. You might just find something in an area of work that you never considered before.

 

 

Good luck.

Wow Ferg! --- there really is a deeper side of you :) Nice Job!

[scratchITguy]

Another consideration is how a job in "golf" will look on your resume to future employers. When entering back into the "real world" of job searching I suspect a job in the golf industry will not be a highly sought after skillset.

[FargoRC]

I have a friend that is a golf pro, who has a great job now but he paid his dues for a solid decade to get where he is. If you are starting out expect long hours with little pay, might even have to move to a location that isn't exactly desirable to get the right experience. My friend had to move to the middle of nowhere for a year or so in order to get where he is today and that is after working as an assistant pro for over six years.

[golfandfishing]

I have a friend that is a golf pro, who has a great job now but he paid his dues for a solid decade to get where he is. If you are starting out expect long hours with little pay, might even have to move to a location that isn't exactly desirable to get the right experience. My friend had to move to the middle of nowhere for a year or so in order to get where he is today and that is after working as an assistant pro for over six years.

 

6 years as an assistant is not bad, congrats to your friend on a quick move up. I left when I was 25, I knew way, way, way too many guys 35/40 years old that were still assistant pros. Making 28k, opening or closing the shop everyday, working every weekend and holiday, 60 hours a week. I finished my level 2 books, sat on them for a few months then tossed them in the dumpster behind the golf shop.

[cxx]

Read Ferguson's post slowly and more than once...................I will add, since your married and the wife has a stable platform, be very careful of what her expectations for you/about you are or will be. I've seen far to many guy's with your same/similar situation and it did not turn out well.

 

Yeah, I agree with everything Fergie said in his post breakdown, excepting the wife bit. Once married, career choices (and income/expenses in general) need to be discussed honestly and openly, and decisions about the same made at something that approaches 50/50. Marriage is a partnership.

 

I don't disagree with what you've said, I just think you've misinterpreted the post that you are replying to.

[iteachgolf]

I have a friend that is a golf pro, who has a great job now but he paid his dues for a solid decade to get where he is. If you are starting out expect long hours with little pay, might even have to move to a location that isn't exactly desirable to get the right experience. My friend had to move to the middle of nowhere for a year or so in order to get where he is today and that is after working as an assistant pro for over six years.

 

6 years as an assistant is not bad, congrats to your friend on a quick move up. I left when I was 25, I knew way, way, way too many guys 35/40 years old that were still assistant pros. Making 28k, opening or closing the shop everyday, working every weekend and holiday, 60 hours a week. I finished my level 2 books, sat on them for a few months then tossed them in the dumpster behind the golf shop.

 

A lot of people have no ambition and aren’t very smart. Like I said earlier, the golf business is what you make it. It’s really not that hard to make $50-60k in it if you have any motivation and ambition

[golfandfishing]

Thats exactly it. $60k. Woop.

[iteachgolf]

Thats exactly it. $60k. Woop.

 

Considering the job only requires a ged I’d say it’s pretty good. And that’s the amount the OP is looking to make. You can also make many times that if you’re good at what you do and are ambitious

[farmer]

Talk to some asst pros off duty and see what they think. See where they think they will be in 5-10 years. It's been mentioned, but your wife is going to have to be as invested in this as you. Good luck with whatever path you choose.

[bervin]

Recently getting back into golf after letting some dust collect on the clubs for two years. I'm 29 and have been playing pretty much my entire life. I'm currently in the middle of exploring a career change, and evaluating whether or not a career in golf is worth pursuing. I'm mainly thinking of the following options:

 

- Playing pro...obviously. (I know I've got a TON of work to even make it on the minis.) This is the ultimate dream, but I know, in reality, it probably won't happen.

 

- Teaching pro. I've given informal lessons, and I can't tell you how many swing tips friends have asked for in my life. I'm fairly proficient at analyzing swings and dissecting the problems. I used to work at a top 100 U.S course as basically a peon. One day our teaching pro came out and we were just watching people hit on the range. He asked me about three different swings and I told him about all of them. He basically said, "Yeah those are all correct. Now, I've gotta go teach that first person a lesson, and I'm going to teach him exactly what you just pointed out."

 

- Club Pro. I've worked a ton of customer service jobs, so I'm pretty proficient in that skill. I've also run my own business for 6+ years, so I get the business side of things.

 

- Equipment Rep. I'm not a huge fan of sales, but I'm sure there's some jobs in the equipment industry that doesn't involve cold calls and sales.

 

The main thing I'm wondering is when I look out 20-30 years from now, I really don't see golf being in a good place. I know that a ton of the money spent on golf is by people over 60, so when they die or get too old to play, what will take their place? Will people my age pick up the slack?

 

My wife and I are in a decent financial position. We have a few student loans, but that's about it. She is in a stable industry that won't be going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Basically, I'd love to find a career that I can make around 50-60k in and be happy. We don't have a luxurious lifestyle, so with her income plus my 50-60k, we should be able to save up enough to retire before we are 80....hopefully... :stink:

 

I've got enough talent/resources to be able to pass the PAT and all the PGA certification stuff, but just wondering if it's really worth it if I'll be in a career crisis when I'm 55 years old. Any of you guys pondering these thoughts? I mean, maybe we can just hope Tiger wins majors until he's 60, then we'll be all good.

 

You started a business at 23 or younger that is still operating 6+ years later? You're not an idiot. Many people do not know what a feat this is in and of itself. I don't care if it was a car wash business, this is a significant accomplishment.

 

I believe anyone who has the aptitude and has experienced some success as an entrepreneur is creative enough (or smart enough to outsource that creativity) to find your niche in an industry you care about. If you believe that is golf, then get started on your homework, if you aren't sure, I'd consider spending some time trying to find out what industry is best for you.

[BMC]

PGA Club Pro (more likely Asst. Golf Pro) Classroom time, internship, pass the PAT. That stuff take time and effort.

 

Your starting pay at decent facility - $25k plus part of the fee from the very few (initially) lessons you give. There are quite a few of these jobs available.

 

Is it worth it?

 

A) Yes, if you have a good personality, can help improve student's games, and like helping others.

 

B) Yes. If you're in line to receive a Million dollar inheritance.

 

I work at a large, upscale club with 8 assistant PGA certified pros. Several make a good living and several don't.

 

Like others have stated, if you love playing golf, don't get in the golf business....unless that inheritance is coming in soon.

 

8 assistant pros? What on earth for? They are all pga members, none are apprentices?

 

Nine actually. 54 hole private club. 900+ golf members. All but one are Class A PGA pros. Ladies league, mens league, senior men, junior league, 30-40 outings annually on Mondays. Hosts a PGA Champions event. It's a huge facility. We do leaderboards for every event. Two bay fitting center. It takes a lot of people to oversee all these things. And, they give a lot of lessons. We'll do over 400-500 rounds on a nice weekend day.