2019 Houston Open

2456
6

Comments

  • Rosco1216Rosco1216  3022Members Posts: 3,022
    Joined:  edited May 2, 2018 #32
    I just had a golf trip to Houston this past weekend and played the Golf club of Houston-Tournament course, Members Course and Carlton Woods-Fazio course.



    Tournament course I like the best, then CW-Fazio, then members.
    Posted:
    Tour Issue M3 8.5*(7.4* @ 3.4* open) - Diamana DF 70tx
    FW - who knows
    P790 UDI 17* - PX 7.0
    Miura CB 1008(4-P) - PX 7.0
    Bridgestone TourB XW1 50/55//60* - X100
    Piretti Matera 2 Limited Release


    https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • tideridertiderider  2436Members Posts: 2,436
    Joined:  #33
    there are 4 tournaments in texas already ... isn't the tour trying to shrink by 1 or 2 to get the new schedule to fit?
    Posted:
  • msd71msd71  714Members Posts: 714
    Joined:  #34
    Did they shorten Memorial Park? I lived in Houston in the early 90s and I thought it measured 7333 - memorable number. No pun intended...
    Posted:
  • tideridertiderider  2436Members Posts: 2,436
    Joined:  #35
    somewhere in the 7300 range is what they always had on their card ... but it's a very benign 7300 yards ... most of the extra length is in the par fives and par threes ...
    Posted:
  • TLUBulldogGolfTLUBulldogGolf Sasquatch Houston, TX 2475Members Posts: 2,475
    Joined:  #36
    tiderider wrote:


    somewhere in the 7300 range is what they always had on their card ... but it's a very benign 7300 yards ... most of the extra length is in the par fives and par threes ...




    They would have to play it as a par 70. 8 and 13 are driver-mid iron par 5s. There are some good holes but there are also some very easy holes. It's not an easy course when they get the green speeds up (almost never due to foot traffic) and the rough up, but the work required to bring it up to speed would never happen in a year, not to mention the logistical issues (where are people going to park?).



    I'd like to see it at Carlton Woods but I doubt the members would go for that.
    Posted:
    Titleist 917 D3 9.5* Kiyoshi Black 65-05
    Titleist 917 F3 15* VA Composite Drago 75-X
    Titleist 818 H2 19* Tensei White 100-X
    Mizuno JPX 900 Tour 3-PW PX 6.5
    Titleist Vokey SM6 Jet Black 54* S Grind PX 6.5
    Titleist Vokey SM6 Jet Black 60* M Grind X100
    Odyssey Works #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol 1.0
  • KillerPenguinKillerPenguin  590Members Posts: 590
    Joined:  #37
    Maybe this is laughable, but what about Bluejack National? I know it's not mature yet, but it was designed to mimic ANGC's style to some degree (at least the no rough and lots of pine trees part of it). And it's a Tiger-designed course which may draw some interest. Thoughts?
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • tideridertiderider  2436Members Posts: 2,436
    Joined:  #38
    they'd have to do something with #18 at memorial ... can't have a 390 yd par 4 finishing hole, unless they shortened it/toughened it and made it a risk/reward driveable hole ...
    Posted:
  • golfnhackgolfnhack  2542Members Posts: 2,542
    Joined:  #39


    Maybe this is laughable, but what about Bluejack National? I know it's not mature yet, but it was designed to mimic ANGC's style to some degree (at least the no rough and lots of pine trees part of it). And it's a Tiger-designed course which may draw some interest. Thoughts?




    BlueJack National is not in Houston, so you would have to rename it. I think the intent is to keep the tournament in Houston. My vote is still for The Club at Houston Oaks.
    Posted:
    "Some emotions cannot be endured with a golf club in your hand." - Bobby Jones
  • TLUBulldogGolfTLUBulldogGolf Sasquatch Houston, TX 2475Members Posts: 2,475
    Joined:  #40
    golfnhack wrote:



    Maybe this is laughable, but what about Bluejack National? I know it's not mature yet, but it was designed to mimic ANGC's style to some degree (at least the no rough and lots of pine trees part of it). And it's a Tiger-designed course which may draw some interest. Thoughts?




    BlueJack National is not in Houston, so you would have to rename it. I think the intent is to keep the tournament in Houston. My vote is still for The Club at Houston Oaks.




    Houston Oaks isn't in Houston either. I think the only viable option in town is probably Champions.
    Posted:
    Titleist 917 D3 9.5* Kiyoshi Black 65-05
    Titleist 917 F3 15* VA Composite Drago 75-X
    Titleist 818 H2 19* Tensei White 100-X
    Mizuno JPX 900 Tour 3-PW PX 6.5
    Titleist Vokey SM6 Jet Black 54* S Grind PX 6.5
    Titleist Vokey SM6 Jet Black 60* M Grind X100
    Odyssey Works #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol 1.0
  • Birdie MacBirdie Mac  651Members Posts: 651
    Joined:  #41

    golfnhack wrote:



    Maybe this is laughable, but what about Bluejack National? I know it's not mature yet, but it was designed to mimic ANGC's style to some degree (at least the no rough and lots of pine trees part of it). And it's a Tiger-designed course which may draw some interest. Thoughts?




    BlueJack National is not in Houston, so you would have to rename it. I think the intent is to keep the tournament in Houston. My vote is still for The Club at Houston Oaks.




    Houston Oaks isn't in Houston either. I think the only viable option in town is probably Champions.




    I agree with this. There have been Tour events at Champions in the past. BlueJack is way too far out - it's an hour's drive from downtown vs. less than half an hour to GCOH. I doubt they could encourage the casual golf fan from the Houston metro area to make the trek, even if by shuttle.



    I don't really understand the thought process of wanting to pour money into upgrading Memorial Park if you have another course that's already closer to being Tour ready. But then again, Ben Crane is a multi-millionaire and I'm...somewhat less than that.
    Posted:
  • golfnhackgolfnhack  2542Members Posts: 2,542
    Joined:  #42

    golfnhack wrote:



    Maybe this is laughable, but what about Bluejack National? I know it's not mature yet, but it was designed to mimic ANGC's style to some degree (at least the no rough and lots of pine trees part of it). And it's a Tiger-designed course which may draw some interest. Thoughts?




    BlueJack National is not in Houston, so you would have to rename it. I think the intent is to keep the tournament in Houston. My vote is still for The Club at Houston Oaks.




    Houston Oaks isn't in Houston either. I think the only viable option in town is probably Champions.




    I'd be OK with Champions... especially since I live literally walking distance from the course. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:
    "Some emotions cannot be endured with a golf club in your hand." - Bobby Jones
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • lc1342lc1342  285Members Posts: 285
    Joined:  #43
    Posted:
  • lc1342lc1342  285Members Posts: 285
    Joined:  #44
  • TLUBulldogGolfTLUBulldogGolf Sasquatch Houston, TX 2475Members Posts: 2,475
    Joined:  #45
    If they are going to do it at Memorial I would like to see them flip the 9s for one. And play 8 and 13 as par 5s, or stretch out 13. I'd be interested to see what is done with the green complexes.
    Posted:
    Titleist 917 D3 9.5* Kiyoshi Black 65-05
    Titleist 917 F3 15* VA Composite Drago 75-X
    Titleist 818 H2 19* Tensei White 100-X
    Mizuno JPX 900 Tour 3-PW PX 6.5
    Titleist Vokey SM6 Jet Black 54* S Grind PX 6.5
    Titleist Vokey SM6 Jet Black 60* M Grind X100
    Odyssey Works #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol 1.0
  • JSSwift1JSSwift1  3Members Posts: 3
    Joined:  #46
    tiderider wrote:


    they'd have to do something with #18 at memorial ... can't have a 390 yd par 4 finishing hole, unless they shortened it/toughened it and made it a risk/reward driveable hole ...





    If they are going to do it at Memorial I would like to see them flip the 9s for one. And play 8 and 13 as par 5s, or stretch out 13. I'd be interested to see what is done with the green complexes.




    This is all assuming no major work is done

    I agree that 9 would be a much better finishing hole than 18. They could stretch 18 out to almost 500 yards if they took out 1 tree and moved the tee back towards #4 tee, but that completely changes the character of the hole. 8 and 13 would be hard to stretch out without some crazy dirtwork, but there is room behind both of their greens to put them.



    What I think should be done:

    Flip the nines. Lengthen 13 by moving the green south and a little east 50 yards, lengthen the fairway bunker to pinch in the landing area. Move the green closer to the water, or put a bigger slope in front on 15. Move 18 tee to the southeast, making the hole a little more risk/reward if they can take it over or around the trees on the inside of the dogleg. Lengthen 8 by moving the green north. Bring the creek on 9 into the fairway a little bit, forcing them to hit more than a half wedge into that green. Redo all the green complex, and maybe completely redo one of the "boring" par 4's (3, 4, 10, 14, 17). Grow the rough out and somehow get the greens to not look like a hail storm just hit them and it wouldn't be the worst golf course on tour.
    Posted:
  • cjblake09cjblake09  1936Members Posts: 1,936
    Joined:  #47
    I would love to see it at Memorial but just can't imagine them getting that course up to PGA standards.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • nicodywillnicodywill  103Members Posts: 103
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2018 #48
    My takeaway from the latest article is that Jim Crane seems like a **** of a guy for both A.) Greater Houston area and B.) Golf and we're lucky to have him.



    Additionally, as someone who just recently attended the Ft. Worth Invitational I can tell you for sure that withstanding a weather related miracle I would NOT go to a June Houston Open, and that I WOULD attend an October one.


    cjblake09 wrote:


    I would love to see it at Memorial but just can't imagine them getting that course up to PGA standards.




    They said they don't anticipate moving it out there until 2021, so a massive overhaul with that timeline in mind would probably make the track look so different you couldn't even tell what it used to be.
    Posted:
  • cjblake09cjblake09  1936Members Posts: 1,936
    Joined:  #49
    It would take a massive overhaul for sure but then do you see the city of Houston keeping it up in fantastic condition going forward. That course gets so much play i don't see how they could.
    Posted:
  • TLUBulldogGolfTLUBulldogGolf Sasquatch Houston, TX 2475Members Posts: 2,475
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2018 #50
    JSSwift1 wrote:

    tiderider wrote:


    they'd have to do something with #18 at memorial ... can't have a 390 yd par 4 finishing hole, unless they shortened it/toughened it and made it a risk/reward driveable hole ...





    If they are going to do it at Memorial I would like to see them flip the 9s for one. And play 8 and 13 as par 5s, or stretch out 13. I'd be interested to see what is done with the green complexes.




    This is all assuming no major work is done

    I agree that 9 would be a much better finishing hole than 18. They could stretch 18 out to almost 500 yards if they took out 1 tree and moved the tee back towards #4 tee, but that completely changes the character of the hole. 8 and 13 would be hard to stretch out without some crazy dirtwork, but there is room behind both of their greens to put them.



    What I think should be done:

    Flip the nines. Lengthen 13 by moving the green south and a little east 50 yards, lengthen the fairway bunker to pinch in the landing area. Move the green closer to the water, or put a bigger slope in front on 15. Move 18 tee to the southeast, making the hole a little more risk/reward if they can take it over or around the trees on the inside of the dogleg. Lengthen 8 by moving the green north. Bring the creek on 9 into the fairway a little bit, forcing them to hit more than a half wedge into that green. Redo all the green complex, and maybe completely redo one of the "boring" par 4's (3, 4, 10, 14, 17). Grow the rough out and somehow get the greens to not look like a hail storm just hit them and it wouldn't be the worst golf course on tour.




    Number 9 has been lengthened and has a tee where it can play at 440 or so. If you are bold enough to hit driver on that tee you should be rewarded. I agree on 18. I would like to see 13 stay a par 5 and keep it a par 71 for the pros, but the hole is way too easy as it stands, definitely needs more length. 8 just needs to have the tees placed further back and it can be a 480 yard par 4. I think 4 is a good hole but 3 needs more trouble down the right hand side. 10 and 14 need something to make them more difficult for sure. 17 just needs to be played all the way back,and needs some trouble left.



    As far as conditioning I assume with a massive overhaul comes an increase in cost to play the course. I'm sure there would still be traffic but hopefully that could help things.
    Posted:
    Titleist 917 D3 9.5* Kiyoshi Black 65-05
    Titleist 917 F3 15* VA Composite Drago 75-X
    Titleist 818 H2 19* Tensei White 100-X
    Mizuno JPX 900 Tour 3-PW PX 6.5
    Titleist Vokey SM6 Jet Black 54* S Grind PX 6.5
    Titleist Vokey SM6 Jet Black 60* M Grind X100
    Odyssey Works #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol 1.0
  • nicodywillnicodywill  103Members Posts: 103
    Joined:  #51
    cjblake09 wrote:


    It would take a massive overhaul for sure but then do you see the city of Houston keeping it up in fantastic condition going forward. That course gets so much play i don't see how they could.




    Totally agreed, they would have to overhaul the whole situation not just the course. the grounds crew, the way it gets played, pricing, etc. etc.
    Posted:
  • JSSwift1JSSwift1  3Members Posts: 3
    Joined:  #52


    Number 9 has been lengthened and has a tee where it can play at 440 or so. If you are bold enough to hit driver on that tee you should be rewarded. I agree on 18. I would like to see 13 stay a par 5 and keep it a par 71 for the pros, but the hole is way too easy as it stands, definitely needs more length. 8 just needs to have the tees placed further back and it can be a 480 yard par 4. I think 4 is a good hole but 3 needs more trouble down the right hand side. 10 and 14 need something to make them more difficult for sure. 17 just needs to be played all the way back,and needs some trouble left.



    As far as conditioning I assume with a massive overhaul comes an increase in cost to play the course. I'm sure there would still be traffic but hopefully that could help things.




    I agree that if you hit driver on 9 you should be rewarded, and if the green complex was reworked just a little bit, making it even more imperative to be accurate with your second, it could be a great hole. 8 would be a pretty good long par 4. 13 is just way too easy as it stands now and is in that in between yardage for those guys.



    I think a major issue they will have to resolve is fan parking, and also setting up infrastructure. There isn't much room right now for grandstands, and there is no locker room. After a major overhaul like this they should increase the price, hopefully decreasing traffic (maybe the end of the 6 hour round?), and giving them some reserves to continue improving the course
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • PuttLeftHitRightPuttLeftHitRight  2266Members Posts: 2,266
    Joined:  #53
    Rosco1216 wrote:


    I just had a golf trip to Houston this past weekend and played the Golf club of Houston-Tournament course, Members Course and Carlton Woods-Fazio course.



    Tournament course I like the best, then CW-Fazio, then members.




    Humble brag? How did you get on?
    Posted:
  • CCTxGolfCCTxGolf Going to the Masters...Someday Corpus Christi 877Members Posts: 877
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2018 #54
    Has a muni ever (in modern pga history) been flipped to pga standards like this? Especially in less than a year? And I understand the access to freeways with it being at the i10 and 610 intersection but where does everybody park?? On the actual park? Also, where in the **** are all the spectator supposed to stand? It just is simply NOT a pga tour caliber course. I don’t believe this is possible unless Jim Crane is some sort of miracle worker. Yes the Floridian is awesome but that’s also in the middle of the richest golf club area in the world.



    Edit - and when I say muni that is EXACTLY what this course epitomizes. Constant flow of people. A bunch of beat up hitting matts/bays for a driving range. A mile long walk on list starting at the crack of dawn 7 days a week. Close your eyes and imagine an urban muni, you’ll see Memorial Park.
    Posted:
    Driver - Callaway EPIC SZ 10.5*
    Fairway Wood - Titleist 917 F2 16.5* and 21*
    Irons - Titleist AP2 4-PW
    Wedges - Titleist SM 5 52*, Titleist SM 6 56* and 60*
    Putter - Scotty Cameron Golo 5 or Odyssey Toe Up #1
  • grm24grm24 Western PA 3793Members Posts: 3,793
    Joined:  #55
    CCTxGolf wrote:


    Has a muni ever (in modern pga history) been flipped to pga standards like this? Especially in less than a year?
    Per the article linked in this thread the Houston Open would remain at the Golf Club Of Houston through 2020 while Memorial would be reconstructed. As to the first part of your question Bethpage Black was redone to USGA/PGA Tour standards but it takes longer than 1 year. Same with Harding Park in San Francisco.



    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/golf/article/Jim-Crane-delivers-plan-to-keep-Houston-Open-alive-12965634.php



    Crane is proposing a mid-October date in the fall of 2019, with the tournament continuing to be played on the Golf Club of Houston course at least through 2020, pending a move to Houston's public Memorial Park course following a massive redo. The 64-year-old global shipping and logistics magnate, a St. Louis-area native who made his fortune after moving to Houston in 1980, said he's willing to take a lead fundraising role for that project as well.

    "Once (the PGA) says go, we start pulling money together to renovate the course," he said. "I think we could raise the money in a year. You could play there in 2021, if you're lucky. That would be fabulous. We could get something going like (the) Phoenix (Open, sponsored by Waste Management), where you have a big turnout and raise a ton of money. You'd be able to draw crowds there."
    Posted:
  • CCTxGolfCCTxGolf Going to the Masters...Someday Corpus Christi 877Members Posts: 877
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2018 #56
    grm24 wrote:

    CCTxGolf wrote:


    Has a muni ever (in modern pga history) been flipped to pga standards like this? Especially in less than a year?
    Per the article linked in this thread the Houston Open would remain at the Golf Club Of Houston through 2020 while Memorial would be reconstructed. As to the first part of your question Bethpage Black was redone to USGA/PGA Tour standards but it takes longer than 1 year. Same with Harding Park in San Francisco.



    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/golf/article/Jim-Crane-delivers-plan-to-keep-Houston-Open-alive-12965634.php



    Crane is proposing a mid-October date in the fall of 2019, with the tournament continuing to be played on the Golf Club of Houston course at least through 2020, pending a move to Houston's public Memorial Park course following a massive redo. The 64-year-old global shipping and logistics magnate, a St. Louis-area native who made his fortune after moving to Houston in 1980, said he's willing to take a lead fundraising role for that project as well.

    "Once (the PGA) says go, we start pulling money together to renovate the course," he said. "I think we could raise the money in a year. You could play there in 2021, if you're lucky. That would be fabulous. We could get something going like (the) Phoenix (Open, sponsored by Waste Management), where you have a big turnout and raise a ton of money. You'd be able to draw crowds there."




    Interesting. And thanks for those examples.



    It seems that crane definitely needs the Golf Club of Houston to agree to keep the tournament going for a couple more years for him to have a chance to make those kinds of upgrades. It would certainly be interesting. I am still just very skeptical as to how memorial park could handle the spectators much less have the extreme golf course makeover of the century in even 3 years.
    Posted:
    Driver - Callaway EPIC SZ 10.5*
    Fairway Wood - Titleist 917 F2 16.5* and 21*
    Irons - Titleist AP2 4-PW
    Wedges - Titleist SM 5 52*, Titleist SM 6 56* and 60*
    Putter - Scotty Cameron Golo 5 or Odyssey Toe Up #1
  • scott_Donaldscott_Donald Aberdeen, Scotland & Houston 2590Members Posts: 2,590
    Joined:  #57
    very interesting latest idea.



    and I like the driving range at memorial, go there in the summer three times a week.
    Posted:
    • Ping G410 LST 9* Tensei Orange 70TX
    • Taylormade M5 15* Tensei White 80TX
    • Taylormade P790 UDI C taper X
    • Mizuno JPX 919 Tour 4-9 C taper X
    • Vokey SM7 RAW 46*F, 50*F C taper X
    • Vokey SM7 RAW 54*M, 60*M S400
    • Artisan BlueBonnet Carbon 0217
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • golfnhackgolfnhack  2542Members Posts: 2,542
    Joined:  #58


    very interesting latest idea.



    and I like the driving range at memorial, go there in the summer three times a week.




    No way pros will hit off of mats!
    Posted:
    "Some emotions cannot be endured with a golf club in your hand." - Bobby Jones
  • rebbyrebby CNH 320  2190ClubWRX Posts: 2,190
    Joined:  edited Jun 7, 2018 #59
    I’m biased here but I really think that the PGA Tour needs to pass on having this in Houston. This event has a sponsor and a location that is already ready and waiting to host a PGA Tour event. The June date is ideal as well.



    3M is ready, waiting, and willing to host this at TPC Twin Cities. All we’re waiting on is the word “go”. Arnie already mapped out the course changes which could be completed in short order, we’d be ready to go by June of 2019 without issue. TPC is already hosting the 3M Champions Tour event so the majority of the logistics are already accounted for as well.



    I was sad to see the end of Shell’s support of this event and I would miss the Houston Open but I believe that the writing is on the wall and it’s time to move on.



    ETA: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/report-new-pga-tour-event-could-head-to-minnesota-as-houston-open-organizers-face-internal-squabble
    Posted:
    G400, Atmos FOH 6x | TEE CB Pro F2, Atmos Blue 8x
    Miura 1957 2/4-PW, KBS Tour-V 125 - TM P730 3-PW, KBS $-Taper 125
    Ben Hogan Equalizer 53/58, KBS Tour-V 120
    Mann Mini - Cameron CT | TP5x | My WITB Thread
  • cjblake09cjblake09  1936Members Posts: 1,936
    Joined:  #60


    very interesting latest idea.



    and I like the driving range at memorial, go there in the summer three times a week.




    Wait, you like to hit those ball with zero compression that go nowhere? I work right by it so i go just to hit balls on occasion( and to see what is going around memorial on the trail) but i dont take much stock in how i hit them b/c the balls are so old.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • scott_Donaldscott_Donald Aberdeen, Scotland & Houston 2590Members Posts: 2,590
    Joined:  #61
    cjblake09 wrote:






    Wait, you like to hit those ball with zero compression that go nowhere? I work right by it so i go just to hit balls on occasion( and to see what is going around memorial on the trail) but i dont take much stock in how i hit them b/c the balls are so old.




    hmmm well I am car less so I pack my back pack with 5 clubs then cycle from the heights there so its handy!



    yes agreed you can't take any fact about the distance but flights etc are fine.
    Posted:
    • Ping G410 LST 9* Tensei Orange 70TX
    • Taylormade M5 15* Tensei White 80TX
    • Taylormade P790 UDI C taper X
    • Mizuno JPX 919 Tour 4-9 C taper X
    • Vokey SM7 RAW 46*F, 50*F C taper X
    • Vokey SM7 RAW 54*M, 60*M S400
    • Artisan BlueBonnet Carbon 0217
6

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file