Lead Shoulder In Transition

[JDIL]

So, I stumbled upon something similar on my own, but to cure something else. At the range I don't suffer from this, but when playing, I'm always hanging back. Top city, if not Fat Town. Right knee buckle, trying to swing out of my shoes. Really hurts my woods and hybrids.

 

So, keep practicing full shoulder turn, get that right shoulder over the left toes, etc. etc. Drop the left shoulder, turn.

 

So now, I"m making great contact, really good, but now am suffering from a slice. Usually starts straight, then at the end, about 2/3 3/4 the way in, starts to slice, and it's not a gentle slice usually. No video yet, but am assuming I'm coming OTT with a square club face?

 

That shoulder down really helped with my hanging back though.

[Nard_S]

Been slogging at driver swing and stumbled upon intent that is germane to topic and my posts. In transition, I started using an intent where I throw down both shoulders. By that i mean, I release my shoulder girdle (that rises or tenses up in back swing) and drop it down my core and in effect drops arms faster from P4 to P5. Better strikers probably innately do this or never have an issue in first place but I kind of picked this up watching a PGA player who has a really stable head through out swing. At full speed that's what it looks like, but funny in slow motion it does not. Had several range session where driver was awful, then incorporated this intent. Hit about 50 balls with it and frankly most solid Driver results in a year. Center contact and higher freedom of speed. Upper spine swing center was more centered and shaft shallowed easily. Lead shoulder appears to drop and stay lo toward target longer, pretty sure keeping a low lead hip is good form that needs to be there (especially for irons) too. Cheers.

[moehogan]

Been slogging at driver swing and stumbled upon intent that is germane to topic and my posts. In transition, I started using an intent where I throw down both shoulders. By that i mean, I release my shoulder girdle (that rises or tenses up in back swing) and drop it down my core and in effect drops arms faster from P4 to P5. Better strikers probably innately do this or never have an issue in first place but I kind of picked this up watching a PGA player who has a really stable head through out swing. At full speed that's what it looks like, but funny in slow motion it does not. Had several range session where driver was awful, then incorporated this intent. Hit about 50 balls with it and frankly most solid Driver results in a year. Center contact and higher freedom of speed. Upper spine swing center was more centered and shaft shallowed easily. Lead shoulder appears to drop and stay lo toward target longer, pretty sure keeping a low lead hip is good form that needs to be there (especially for irons) too. Cheers.

 

+1. Scapular depression and protraction in the DS are keys to getting handpath low enough so hands can elevate from P6 to P7.

[joshsparham]

Man when I attempt to do this I'm pretty sure I'll dig a ditch in the ground. I am working on getting the feel of shallowing first and consistently before I'll feel good adding this. Anyone else had this issue? How did you approach it?

[Golfbeat]

Man when I attempt to do this I'm pretty sure I'll dig a ditch in the ground. I am working on getting the feel of shallowing first and consistently before I'll feel good adding this. Anyone else had this issue? How did you approach it?

 

 

Because you will be closer to the ground you will also have to have your right arm more bend.

[Quick Bucket]

Man when I attempt to do this I'm pretty sure I'll dig a ditch in the ground. How did you approach it?

 

Courage to descend into a counter intuitive process.

[glk]

Get into the deliver position - get into golf posture, get into delivery position, chest about 2 inches lower, hips open, hands at trail thigh, trail arm bent, hit the ball. Repeat a lot. Full swing - slo mo to delivery, hit the ball, continue. Train that brain - also need to have that good delivery position of trail wrist extended and lead wrist flexed with trail forearm pointing to the sky. If you are used to flipping it your release may be via the trail shoulder going internal - so sometimes you have to also train a new release or your body will just keep standing up and flipping.

 

Yes I got to shallowing my arms last year before working on this over the winter. It helps but as in Tyler's video these two make a good combo drill - shallow arms and left tilt (regain flexion).

[Nard_S]

The Justin Rose pre-shot routine is quite helpful.

[baudi]

The Justin Rose pre-shot routine is quite helpful.

yeah! love that drill!

EUR 5 USA 3

:friends:

[joshsparham]

Ok this sounds right. I've had to flip in the past due to lead wrist not being in a good position coming down. So I'm use to a flip.

 

Sounds like a lot of slo-mo swings ahead

[joshsparham]

Get into the deliver position - get into golf posture, get into delivery position, chest about 2 inches lower, hips open, hands at trail thigh, trail arm bent, hit the ball. Repeat a lot. Full swing - slo mo to delivery, hit the ball, continue. Train that brain - also need to have that good delivery position of trail wrist extended and lead wrist flexed with trail forearm pointing to the sky. If you are used to flipping it your release may be via the trail shoulder going internal - so sometimes you have to also train a new release or your body will just keep standing up and flipping.

 

Yes I got to shallowing my arms last year before working on this over the winter. It helps but as in Tyler's video these two make a good combo drill - shallow arms and left tilt (regain flexion).

Ok this sounds right. I've had to flip in the past due to lead wrist not being in a good position coming down. So I'm use to a flip.

 

Sounds like a lot of slo-mo swings ahead

[joshsparham]

Michael Breed had an article in GD this month. One of the things he said was critical was moving the lead shoulder towards the lead hip during transition for solid contact. I had stand up to see what I do. My lead shoulder wants to move up not down and I get a lot of early right side tilt. Is this a basic I've missed after playing all these years?

 

I agree with FWP, but you cant do this because you have too much lateral movement in the backswing. You have to slide to avoid hitting behind the ball or come way OTT and thats why your left shoulder goes up.

 

If you brought your left shoulder down without a change in backswing, youd likely Shank it.

Monte:

 

Been trying to work out my own feels for this move. Does your idea of steep shoulder turn back and rear shoulder feel of turning level or higher accomplish this?

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

Michael Breed had an article in GD this month. One of the things he said was critical was moving the lead shoulder towards the lead hip during transition for solid contact. I had stand up to see what I do. My lead shoulder wants to move up not down and I get a lot of early right side tilt. Is this a basic I've missed after playing all these years?

 

I agree with FWP, but you cant do this because you have too much lateral movement in the backswing. You have to slide to avoid hitting behind the ball or come way OTT and thats why your left shoulder goes up.

 

If you brought your left shoulder down without a change in backswing, youd likely Shank it.

Monte:

 

Been trying to work out my own feels for this move. Does your idea of steep shoulder turn back and rear shoulder feel of turning level or higher accomplish this?

 

It can.

[jaydro]

Michael Breed had an article in GD this month. One of the things he said was critical was moving the lead shoulder towards the lead hip during transition for solid contact. I had stand up to see what I do. My lead shoulder wants to move up not down and I get a lot of early right side tilt. Is this a basic I've missed after playing all these years?

 

I agree with FWP, but you cant do this because you have too much lateral movement in the backswing. You have to slide to avoid hitting behind the ball or come way OTT and thats why your left shoulder goes up.

 

If you brought your left shoulder down without a change in backswing, youd likely Shank it.

Monte:

 

Been trying to work out my own feels for this move. Does your idea of steep shoulder turn back and rear shoulder feel of turning level or higher accomplish this?

 

It can.

 

Would this be a good feel to incorporate with “zipper away” to keep upper body from hanging to far back?

[MonteScheinblum]

Michael Breed had an article in GD this month. One of the things he said was critical was moving the lead shoulder towards the lead hip during transition for solid contact. I had stand up to see what I do. My lead shoulder wants to move up not down and I get a lot of early right side tilt. Is this a basic I've missed after playing all these years?

 

I agree with FWP, but you cant do this because you have too much lateral movement in the backswing. You have to slide to avoid hitting behind the ball or come way OTT and thats why your left shoulder goes up.

 

If you brought your left shoulder down without a change in backswing, youd likely Shank it.

Monte:

 

Been trying to work out my own feels for this move. Does your idea of steep shoulder turn back and rear shoulder feel of turning level or higher accomplish this?

 

It can.

 

Would this be a good feel to incorporate with “zipper away” to keep upper body from hanging to far back?

in theory it should be the same move.

[jurr80]

Man, that’s a slippery feel to dial in.

What it feels like from the top vs what you’re actually doing can be a devil when it comes to that motion.

 

For me, it literally feels like I’ve got my arms out away from me wide, and I’m getting over to my lead foot while moving my chest down and towards the target.

It feels like the most godawful OTT move of all time.

 

In a mirror or on video, it looks like the chest is opening up and the shoulder is moving away from the chin.

[glk]

Man, that's a slippery feel to dial in.

What it feels like from the top vs what you're actually doing can be a devil when it comes to that motion.

 

For me, it literally feels like I've got my arms out away from me wide, and I'm getting over to my lead foot while moving my chest down and towards the target.

It feels like the most godawful OTT move of all time.

 

In a mirror or on video, it looks like the chest is opening up and the shoulder is moving away from the chin.

 

I had to work hard to not spin my shoulders doing this move. Lots of exaggerated drills keeping my back to the target. Watch Tyler do it on video. try again.

Had a hard time getting the shoulder to move lower without taking my entire chest with it and start rotating. Finally getting it to where I can separate the shoulder from

my chin - the arms just drop along with this move - I had to do some of Tyler's backswing drills to get myself in a better top of swing position - plus I worked hard to load my core and glute.

 

I actually recall someone posting a swing video about shoulder chin separation and found it. I found I was pulling to much with the upper body at first - sort of an upper body lunge - which was causing me to spin my shoulder.

This is the video

 

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[Nard_S]

Man, that's a slippery feel to dial in.

What it feels like from the top vs what you're actually doing can be a devil when it comes to that motion.

 

For me, it literally feels like I've got my arms out away from me wide, and I'm getting over to my lead foot while moving my chest down and towards the target.

It feels like the most godawful OTT move of all time.

 

In a mirror or on video, it looks like the chest is opening up and the shoulder is moving away from the chin.

 

I had to work hard to not spin my shoulders doing this move. Lots of exaggerated drills keeping my back to the target. Watch Tyler do it on video. try again.

Had a hard time getting the shoulder to move lower without taking my entire chest with it and start rotating. Finally getting it to where I can separate the shoulder from

my chin - the arms just drop along with this move - I had to do some of Tyler's backswing drills to get myself in a better top of swing position - plus I worked hard to load my core and glute.

 

I actually recall someone posting a swing video about shoulder chin separation and found it. I found I was pulling to much with the upper body at first - sort of an upper body lunge - which was causing me to spin my shoulder.

This is the video

 

Yeah, that's me. That separation of chin & shoulder is easier to execute on irons. Is dicey on Driver. Good point about position, pivot and focus of core & glute. If I'm too hand/arm focused failure is high, If I can hone in on core, it goes great. It's about everything but hands and arms and dgetting the others right first.

[mallrat]

Would this feel or a similar drill help fight the lead shoulder spinning out?

 

I can tell I fight my lead shoulder spinning out and when it does, watch out because it’s thin and coming in hot.

[OrangeGravy]

His rehearsal move is a good way to feel it.

 

https://instagram.com/p/BgTyhevha2K/

 

Monte,

 

How does this feel mesh with Driver? It's always helped me with irons, but with driver my AOA gets too negative

[MonteScheinblum]

His rehearsal move is a good way to feel it.

 

https://instagram.com/p/BgTyhevha2K/

 

Monte,

 

How does this feel mesh with Driver? It's always helped me with irons, but with driver my AOA gets too negative

 

Then there is another issue or it’s not needed.

[ebrasmus21]

Fascinating thread. There's a lot to chew on here.

[Nard_S]

Still monkeying around with this and am getting good line on direction and decent contact but impact was still missing pop and loving feeling. Only metals had it going on. Started to add more downward tilt on hips and it changed things. I tend to have full rotation on hips but they tend to be too flat. The emphasis on a downward left hip at P4 led to pretty big improvement and it freed up left shoulder to easily stay down and lead. Swing bottom moved forward , pop of swing was back especially in irons. I guess I have Monte to thank because he is one of few people who talks about this and for me, it was effective.

[Fort Worth Pro]

Pretty clear visual here.

 

[PJ1120]

FWP.......I believe this is what Jim W refers to as the "tilt switch". The key for me is that the left shoulder has to go down before it pops back up and around.

[Nard_S]

Had another range session and delved into hip tilt lead shoulder thing. Best ball striking in some time, nutting irons was rather easy. The only thing that threw me off was my balance could waver either from over doing it or by a well ingrained setup that compensates for flattish hips and high left shoulder that's been my MO for eons. So my take is be sure the hip tilt is there, makes the low lead shoulder move to the ball all the easier. Consider this a big swing fix and will work to ingratiate it till it's completely worked into the DNA of my swing. Great thread. Cheers.

[MK7Golf21]

I first heard of this concept about 10 years ago from Jim Hardy, I live close to an instructor who was good friends with Jim and helped teach Peter Jacobson. They refer to it like a left side crunch in transition. He used it on Jacobson when he was sliding too much and and too much right tilt and mentioned it took him like 20 years to come up with it, I'm not sure if it originated from him or not. Anyway, his advice was to keep doing it until the problem is cured and then back off of it

 

You can see some guys doing it too much when they look funny in the finish, upper body kinda stays in flexion and get steep

[PJ1120]

Came across this Facebook post showing Dana D giving a lesson. He talks about having the feel of the upper body (axis) getting ahead of the lower body (axis) in the DS transition.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.facebook...60051544775212/

[joeunc]

i had gotten into a bad habit with the GG leg work and pivot that I was getting too dumped under right tilt, so getting left with lead shoulder down for a brief moment at transition has helped a ton

[Kuuuch]

i had gotten into a bad habit with the GG leg work and pivot that I was getting too dumped under right tilt, so getting left with lead shoulder down for a brief moment at transition has helped a ton

 

Same, also helps me get shoulders/chest more open too