So, how good of a putter are you, really? (Loooong!)

[asimone]

How are you guys determining the distances of each putt. Im not sure I'd be that good at estimating it. Do you use GPS or walking them off or what? I've always wanted to keep track of my Strokes gained stats but I'm always afraid of holding up the group or being too concerned about stats or entering stuff into my phone that it messes me up even more.

[Dan Drake]

Well. Here's my stats from Saturday. Tells me what I knew. I need to putt better. Any chance you have a sheet for strokes gained that is for all other strokes ?

 

(What's posted below is some factual information, some of "how" I teach and explain, and some is personally directed towards bladehunter. If someone disagrees with something below, that's fine, but I want this thread to be informational and helpful, not devolve into a minutia or semantics debate. Thank you.)

 

BH,

 

It's only one round, but it tells us something. First, you "lost" (negative strokes gained) more strokes from 9-15' than from all the other distances combined. Now, this is where you have to take a step back and be a little honest. You see, we aren't necessarily gauging the quality of the putt, simply how far it finished from the hole, which gives you your next expected # of strokes to hole out.

 

Simply put, a 4' putt that finishes 2' past the hole looks WAAAAYYYY worse, strokes gained-wise, than a 45' putt that also finishes 2' past the hole, even though you may have gotten the speed exactly (perfect?) as you intended on both putts.

 

That said, with how much we know the hole shrinks when the ball is rolling at a speed greater than enough to get it about 1' past the hole, that's the speed that we are looking to roll the ball.

 

For everyone out there who stinks (relatively speaking) at the "birdie range" putts of 9'-15', and I very much include myself in this group, we need to look at these putts a little differently that the other distances. All the other distances can be pretty honestly evaluated with the just strokes gained numbers. But with these birdie putts, I would suggest a slightly different measurement direction. Something like this:

 

#1. Did you get it to, or slightly past, the hole?

#2. Did you catch a piece of the hole, or at least, miss it on the high side?

#3. Only then, consider the strokes gained number of the actual putt.

 

The best putters in the world from this range, and the 16'-30' range, are simply putting an outstanding roll on the ball, with great (approx. 1' past the hole) pace, and sending that ball through an imaginary set of "uprights," just like a field goal kicker. Here's the revelation that you need to get comfy with:

 

The hole just gets in the way.

 

That's it. That's why it's called "capture speed." The hole (and gravity!) captures the putt, you don't actually "make" the putt! And honestly, the harder we "try" to make the putt at these distances, the worse the results tend to be. The finality of the putt either going in or missing, and our misunderstanding of what are realistic expectations, creates a "I'm a bad putter" self-fulfilling prophecy. And that's what I'm trying to combat.

 

Read it reasonably well

Start it reasonably on line

Roll it a reasonable speed

 

Some days, a bunch will fall in. Other days none will. Neither of those days mean you are that "kind" of putter, just that you may have been dealt pocket Aces or the deuce -7 off suit. Neither means that is what type of poker player/putter you are.

 

You are the putter you think you are.

[Dan Drake]

BH,

 

Hehe, lost in all of that silent lucidity I forgot to answer your actual question. Yes, I do have the spreadsheet that shows virtually everything. It's robust and ever-changing, but if you can handle the input into the putting spreadsheet, you can handle the big boy. I'll send it to you, if you like!

 

asimone,

 

As far as distances go, I pace off the majority of my putts, but after the putt. My dad does his before he putts. He would rather have the info so that he can draw on his "reference stroke" length for different putts, and I do the opposite, eschewing that info so that it doesn't disrupt my "lizard brain's" ability to throw the piece of paper in the trash can, so to speak.

 

Both ways work and Dad and I are both pretty darn good from distance. You gotta do you, baby!

[Forged4ever]

I’ve posted this before and in fact Juan is a member on the board, posts occasionally and dropped into one of my putting threads. He’s a Class Act, a true Gent and will answer any questions that you might have. This book is hands down, THE finest putting book that I have ever purchased, and I own 139 books just on putting instruction alone, from systems and putting strokes to the mental aspect to drills.

 

$10 (Actually I believe that it’s $9.95/$9.99) is a joke because I myself would pay 4-5 times that, no questions asked, and if you are serious, and I do mean serious, about putting in the work that Jack speaks to, to having the confidence that Dan and Jack speak of to becoming a truly excellent putter under pressure, there is no finer book, no finer system and no finer groups of drills than are contained in this book.

 

Unlike a lot of guys who write instructional books, and either didn’t compete or their competitive record was “meh,” Juan won the World Putting Championship, competing against Ams & Proffessionals.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Make-More-Putts-Performance-Improvement/dp/151221244X

 

Stay well Gents and remember, it’s all about the CONFIDENCE??‍♂️

 

Cheers?

RP

[Juan73]

WOW Richard you were posting about me and my book at the same time I was writing a reply. THANKS for the endorsement and good to see you posting!! :-) You are making me "blush" THANKS again.

 

 

Dan.... thanks for starting this thread. AND it was good to see that Richard is participating!! In the next few days I will take data from my Game Golf account and fill in about 10 rounds of golf to see how well I am doing.

 

I think I am a decent putter...and wrote a book about putting titled, "Make More Putts" Which contains a putting assessment, how to identify your strengths and weaknesses, how to put together improvement plans and practice plans, and over 150 putting drills. I did this after I won the World Golf Hall of Fame Putting Championship in 2011... and in the run up to it and afterwards, people were always asking me for my putting drills. So with encouragement from a friend, I put it all in a 80 plus page book.

 

Along this journey, I took putting lessons from David Orr at Buies Creek, NC, Mark Sweeney from Aimpoint (and completed all the training to teach it), was fitted for my putter... and was training about 2-3 hours a day on the putting green. I used to keep stats on an Excel spreadsheet I made up to identify where I needed to improve... long before Strokes Gained became popular.

 

One comment about those who are decent putters from distance but miss the shorter putts. I found that my timing changed on the shorter putts. I was smooth and consistent... and was great on the start line (used Pelz Putting Tutor a lot) for longer putts, however, on the shorter putts, I was not as consistent with my timing and thus did not perform as well on the Pelz Putting Tutor once I got inside 5 feet. I am thinking of getting the Blast Motion app/sensor next time I upgrade my cell phone.... I think it will be very worthwhile.

 

Also, in chatting with a couple of friends who coach putting on the pro tours (LPGA, PGA, Web.com. Senior Tour, ....... ) they told me their better putters are practicing 7-10 hours a week. To me it is a statement of how good these folks want to get.... obviously they know, a lost shot can mean a lot!!

[bladehunter]

Yep. I saw the obvious on the 9-15 footers.

 

And I can tell you I’m not catching any of the hole. And I’m not really doing anything but trying to not 3 putt. So some get to the hole and some do not. Keep in mind this round was “ much improved “. I know that’s not the correct thinking. But trying to make them is what causes the 3 putts. So I don’t know how to think. It’s either “ try to make “ or try not to 3 putt “ which means just leave a makable par putt.

 

Sounds good on the other sheets. I’d love to track a little and see how it stacks up.

 

I’m going to add some more putting rounds in tonight from memory. I’d never tacked actual putt distances. So I only have 2 more rounds in my short term memory. Loll. But I warn you. They are terrible.

[bladehunter]

Added another round. Have to wait for this damn rain to stop to get back on course for more scores.

[Irishgolfer88]

I would say im a very streaky putter , some days im good and more days im poor

 

i have however made an effort to spend an hour or two a week on the putting green , working on speed , my stroke and short putts say 6ft in

 

I have noticed im holing a lot more 3ft putts which adds up for us higher handicappers

 

I have made a focuses effort also to avoid three putting

[Dan Drake]

I would say im a very streaky putter , some days im good and more days im poor

 

i have however made an effort to spend an hour or two a week on the putting green , working on speed , my stroke and short putts say 6ft in

 

I have noticed im holing a lot more 3ft putts which adds up for us higher handicappers

 

I have made a focuses effort also to avoid three putting

 

Irish,

 

Great job putting focus in on your putting. For higher handicappers, there may be no better ROI on practice time than stroking 3'ers. Keep up the great work!

[juststeve]

Well. Here's my stats from Saturday. Tells me what I knew. I need to putt better. Any chance you have a sheet for strokes gained that is for all other strokes ?

 

(What's posted below is some factual information, some of "how" I teach and explain, and some is personally directed towards bladehunter. If someone disagrees with something below, that's fine, but I want this thread to be informational and helpful, not devolve into a minutia or semantics debate. Thank you.)

 

BH,

 

It's only one round, but it tells us something. First, you "lost" (negative strokes gained) more strokes from 9-15' than from all the other distances combined. Now, this is where you have to take a step back and be a little honest. You see, we aren't necessarily gauging the quality of the putt, simply how far it finished from the hole, which gives you your next expected # of strokes to hole out.

 

Simply put, a 4' putt that finishes 2' past the hole looks WAAAAYYYY worse, strokes gained-wise, than a 45' putt that also finishes 2' past the hole, even though you may have gotten the speed exactly (perfect?) as you intended on both putts.

 

That said, with how much we know the hole shrinks when the ball is rolling at a speed greater than enough to get it about 1' past the hole, that's the speed that we are looking to roll the ball.

 

For everyone out there who stinks (relatively speaking) at the "birdie range" putts of 9'-15', and I very much include myself in this group, we need to look at these putts a little differently that the other distances. All the other distances can be pretty honestly evaluated with the just strokes gained numbers. But with these birdie putts, I would suggest a slightly different measurement direction. Something like this:

 

#1. Did you get it to, or slightly past, the hole?

#2. Did you catch a piece of the hole, or at least, miss it on the high side?

#3. Only then, consider the strokes gained number of the actual putt.

 

The best putters in the world from this range, and the 16'-30' range, are simply putting an outstanding roll on the ball, with great (approx. 1' past the hole) pace, and sending that ball through an imaginary set of "uprights," just like a field goal kicker. Here's the revelation that you need to get comfy with:

 

The hole just gets in the way.

 

That's it. That's why it's called "capture speed." The hole (and gravity!) captures the putt, you don't actually "make" the putt! And honestly, the harder we "try" to make the putt at these distances, the worse the results tend to be. The finality of the putt either going in or missing, and our misunderstanding of what are realistic expectations, creates a "I'm a bad putter" self-fulfilling prophecy. And that's what I'm trying to combat.

 

Read it reasonably well

Start it reasonably on line

Roll it a reasonably speed

 

Some days, a bunch will fall in. Other days none will. Neither of those days mean you are that "kind" of putter, just that you may have been dealt pocket Aces or the deuce -7 off suit. Neither means that is what type of poker player/putter you are.

 

You are the putter you think you are.

 

Apart from my own, which are always genius, this is one of the best posts I've seen on WRX. Want to make a lot more putts, just hit more putts that have a chance and some of them will go in. You job is to put a good roll on the ball, at about the right speed and on the about right line and if it goes in so much the better. Once you've hit a good putt the rest is out of your hands.

 

Steve

[North Butte]

Years ago I played a round with an acquaintance who coaches lots of college golfers a couple of guys on the big Tour. At the end of the round he commented, "You were putting a great roll on the ball today. Keep it up". I hadn't made any real long putts but I was around the hole all day and didn't miss any short ones, either.

 

So I figured hey, this guy has seen some the best putters in the world up close and knows what he's talking about. If he says I'm rolling it great I must be doing something right.

 

Gotta tell you, for the next 2-3 months I putted the best I ever have in my life. Just one solid putting round after another with a couple of out-of-body experiences mixed in where I made everything. Eventually I went through a bad spell and lost all that confidence but it was pretty amazing while it lasted...

 

P.S. To address Dan's original post, long-term I am also about 1/2 stroke worse than Tour average in Strokes Gained: Lag Putting. But I'm much worse than Tour from short (-2.0) and intermediate (-1.6) distances, according to my Strokes Gained app.

[Dan Drake]

Years ago I played a round with an acquaintance who coaches lots of college golfers a couple of guys on the big Tour. At the end of the round he commented, "You were putting a great roll on the ball today. Keep it up". I hadn't made any real long putts but I was around the hole all day and didn't miss any short ones, either.

 

So I figured hey, this guy has seen some the best putters in the world up close and knows what he's talking about. If he says I'm rolling it great I must be doing something right.

 

Gotta tell you, for the next 2-3 months I putted the best I ever have in my life. Just one solid putting round after another with a couple of out-of-body experiences mixed in where I made everything. Eventually I went through a bad spell and lost all that confidence but it was pretty amazing while it lasted...

 

P.S. To address Dan's original post, long-term I am also about 1/2 stroke worse than Tour average in Strokes Gained: Lag Putting. But I'm much worse than Tour from short (-2.0) and intermediate (-1.6) distances, according to my Strokes Gained app.

 

Mr. Butte (I presume, lol!),

 

You and your coach acquaintance unknowingly (at least you anyway, he may have known exactly what he was doing!) performed exactly the type of experiment that I'm talking about. Richard spoke about it as well, including the Jack Nicklaus quote.

 

You must have confidence AND realistic expectations. Only then will you truly be able to be the best possible putter you can become. And that duality is exactly why it is so hard.

 

P.S. - Again, assuming that our surfaces are quite as pure as tour putting surfaces, it sounds like you are pretty good from lag distance. If I was you, I would hammer the 3'ers until that number changes. Then, simply by similarity of skill, your intermediate putts will improve. Get to the clock drill, my friend!

[North Butte]

Years ago I played a round with an acquaintance who coaches lots of college golfers a couple of guys on the big Tour. At the end of the round he commented, "You were putting a great roll on the ball today. Keep it up". I hadn't made any real long putts but I was around the hole all day and didn't miss any short ones, either.

 

So I figured hey, this guy has seen some the best putters in the world up close and knows what he's talking about. If he says I'm rolling it great I must be doing something right.

 

Gotta tell you, for the next 2-3 months I putted the best I ever have in my life. Just one solid putting round after another with a couple of out-of-body experiences mixed in where I made everything. Eventually I went through a bad spell and lost all that confidence but it was pretty amazing while it lasted...

 

P.S. To address Dan's original post, long-term I am also about 1/2 stroke worse than Tour average in Strokes Gained: Lag Putting. But I'm much worse than Tour from short (-2.0) and intermediate (-1.6) distances, according to my Strokes Gained app.

 

Mr. Butte (I presume, lol!),

 

You and your coach acquaintance unknowingly (at least you anyway, he may have known exactly what he was doing!) performed exactly the type of experiment that I'm talking about. Richard spoke about it as well, including the Jack Nicklaus quote.

 

You must have confidence AND realistic expectations. Only then will you truly be able to be the best possible putter you can become. And that duality is exactly why it is so hard.

 

P.S. - Again, assuming that our surfaces are quite as pure as tour putting surfaces, it sounds like you are pretty good from lag distance. If I was you, I would hammer the 3'ers until that number changes. Then, simply by similarity of skill, your intermediate putts will improve. Get to the clock drill, my friend!

 

I have a sort of occasional "mentor" type older guy I play with whenever I get a chance. Great player, very good putter although he has about the handsiest putting stroke you'd ever care to see. I literally avert my eyes when he's putting because if I tried to make that wristy pop I'd have the yips after a couple hours!

 

But all he ever practices is 6-footers. Like every day of his life, almost. Not even a clock drill. I'm talking make the same 6-footer over and over and over for 10-15 minutes then move to another spot and do the same then maybe a third spot if you've got time.

 

His advice? Anybody can get a long putt within six feet of the hole. If you could never miss from six feet you'd be the best putter in the history of the game. Which apparently, is his goal. Who knows maybe he'll live long enough to get there. He may not be 100% from six feet but I've certainly never seen him miss a 3-4 footer when I'm playing with him.

[msg]

I'll give this a shot when I play again soon. I used to be a stat geek. I used to write down my first putt distance, second putt distance. I am lucky that I wear size 12 shoes so usually my 10 steps on the green is equals to 20 feet. This year I stopped measuring and using Game Golf. For some odd reason this year has been the BEST putting of my life.

 

I just have raw info on my putting. I am averaging 1.60 putts per hole and 1.74 per GIR. My stats last year were 2.0 per hole and 2.15 per GIR.

 

Last time we played I putted 27 times. I could not believe it.

[Juan73]

Dan Drake... THANKS for sharing the Excel Spreadsheet. I played 9 holes today after about 90 minutes on the range. I use Game Golf to track my stats. So I just took the data out of Game Golf for these nine holes, entered it into your Excel Spreadsheet I learned I gained 2.42 strokes. I had three putts in the 16-30 foot range and did not make any of them... so for these I lost .32 strokes.

 

A reflection from today. On hole #5 I had a putt of 24 feet, which I missed. So after sinking the second putt of 2 feet. I went back to the spot where I first hit the 24 foot putt... and considered why I missed it. It was purely mental. I did not pick a good target.... since it was 24 feet, I just wanted to roll it close rather than trying to make it. So I set up for the putt again, picked a target based on my Aimpoint read, and made the putt!! @#%$#@. This is an area that I need to address, since on putts of this length I am not focused enough and miss more than I should.

 

Love seeing the data... it will help me become more focused in my putting practice AND more focused on the course.

[Dan Drake]

Dan Drake... THANKS for sharing the Excel Spreadsheet. I played 9 holes today after about 90 minutes on the range. I use Game Golf to track my stats. So I just took the data out of Game Golf for these nine holes, entered it into your Excel Spreadsheet I learned I gained 2.42 strokes. I had three putts in the 16-30 foot range and did not make any of them... so for these I lost .32 strokes.

 

A reflection from today. On hole #5 I had a putt of 24 feet, which I missed. So after sinking the second putt of 2 feet. I went back to the spot where I first hit the 24 foot putt... and considered why I missed it. It was purely mental. I did not pick a good target.... since it was 24 feet, I just wanted to roll it close rather than trying to make it. So I set up for the putt again, picked a target based on my Aimpoint read, and made the putt!! @#%$#@. This is an area that I need to address, since on putts of this length I am not focused enough and miss more than I should.

 

Love seeing the data... it will help me become more focused in my putting practice AND more focused on the course.

 

Juan,

 

Wow. I'm assuming that you gained 2.42 strokes "per round," which is setup as an 18 hole round. That, in and of itself is just fantastic! But if you gained that in just 9 holes, I have to say, you really are the best putter in the world!!!

 

I also am an Aimpoint user. I was fortunate enough to have our greens lasered last year, so I have a sheet of all of our surfaces. I then also use that information to train my "blind" reads, so that I can read putts at any other course I need to. This system is fantastic. It is almost unheard of for me to be fooled by a putt. Sure, I'll get distracted and forget to look at the grain, or uphill/downhill slope by the hole and miss putts, but I'm just rarely ever that far off. I either do or don't put good speed on the ball. That's it, it's just that simple.

 

Thank you for participating in this thread and putting in your data. I firmly believe that having your data in here, given your documented ability as a putter who is not on tour, and then comparing that to the tour data, will show everyone that we can work with this data, learn from it, and improve!

 

I also love that you brought up focus on putts of 16' - 30'. I want to be perfectly clear here. My insistence on expectation management, especially from longer distance, in NO way indicates that a lesser amount of focus be applied to these putts. Just because you are only going to make 10% from whatever distance is your 10% distance doesn't mean that you simply take a half-baked read and then wand it down there "somewhere." Pay attention at all times. In someone like Juan's case, you will assuredly make more in this range. In the rest of our cases, you will have more tap-ins, fewer 3-putts, lower scores, and a LOT less stress!

[North Butte]

If just a couple of those putts were mis-located by Game Golf (i.e if Juan did not clean up the first-putt distances by editing after the round) a nine-hole Strokes Gained can easily be off by 2+ strokes. Game Golf has only the vaguest idea where the flag is or how long your first putt was. You never want to look at SG: Putting unless you've carefully checked and edited each hole and first-putt location after the round.

[Dan Drake]

If just a couple of those putts were mis-located by Game Golf (i.e if Juan did not clean up the first-putt distances by editing after the round) a nine-hole Strokes Gained can easily be off by 2+ strokes. Game Golf has only the vaguest idea where the flag is or how long your first putt was. You never want to look at SG: Putting unless you've carefully checked and edited each hole and first-putt location after the round.

 

NB,

 

You are absolutely correct! In fact, this is the exact reason I have ended up on this path. I was fortunate enough to receive a Game Golf unit about 4 years ago and I think it is a fantastic product! But, I wanted to get ALL the information, so I started looking around for alternative solutions, even if they were a tad more intrusive. That lead me to a few different Excel options created by our WRX members, one of which became the (entire) foundation for the spreadsheets that I have tweaked and worked up. (As an aside, if I can find or remember which member it was, I want to give them credit and thank them somehow!)

 

That is, perhaps, my favorite part of my/our spreadsheets. Short of inputting the incorrect starting distance of the hole you play, you can't cheat them. Every lie/distance/shot type affects not only itself, but the shot before it as well. So if you are fudging your distances to make your short putting look better (you are certainly able to do that), you will also make your lag putting and short game look worse! So where's the value in that?

[Juan73]

If just a couple of those putts were mis-located by Game Golf (i.e if Juan did not clean up the first-putt distances by editing after the round) a nine-hole Strokes Gained can easily be off by 2+ strokes. Game Golf has only the vaguest idea where the flag is or how long your first putt was. You never want to look at SG: Putting unless you've carefully checked and edited each hole and first-putt location after the round.

 

 

North Butte..... I realized when I first starting using Game Golf that I would need to write down on my scorecard the distance of the putts so when I edited the round on my home computer after the round I could enter the correct information. It is a pain that neither Game Golf or Arcoss seems to have way of fixing. Actually since you know how GG works I move the Flag on the green to the correct distance of the first putt.

 

I have been doing this for all of the 50 plus rounds I have posted in GG so when I pull the data to enter into Drake's Excel Spreadsheet it is accurate.

 

Below or attached .... is a Snip of the hole round I just entered and mentioned above.

[bladehunter]

Small club tournament today ...

 

Nasty wet conditions ( again) ...But putting much better, ( relative to say 6 3 putts a round ..lol) although not making anything... 1 3 putt ( from 40 ft) and 32 putts total... shot 76 with two double bogeys to yet again finish out of the winnings by a stroke...anyway ...

 

After entering the data here are my stats.... at some point soon ill be giving up a shot a hole to the field i suppose..lol ..Im not certain these stats are confidence builders..

 

question.. these numbers...decode them for me ... as in are we talking -4.69 strokes from 8ft per round? or ?

[tatertot]

I'm the best putter I know. I don't recall ever missing a putt that mattered.*

 

Putting is all mental. Spreadsheets and Excel docs ain't going to help you make the 5 foot downhill breaker you need to win your match. Lots of (smart) practice - along with the confidence and strong mental game that come with it - is the only thing that's going to help you when you're out there all by yourself in a pressure situation.

 

*I tell myself before every round. The more I believe it, the better I score.

[bladehunter]

I'm the best putter I know. I don't recall ever missing a putt that mattered.*

 

Putting is all mental. Spreadsheets and Excel docs ain't going to help you make the 5 foot downhill breaker you need to win your match. Lots of (smart) practice - along with the confidence and strong mental game that come with it - is the only thing that's going to help you when you're out there all by yourself in a pressure situation.

 

*I tell myself before every round. The more I believe it, the better I score.

 

 

 

 

sorry.. i see the asterisk now..lol You had me for a moment ... so lie to yourself ? I can do that .. trouble is myself knows im full of shat , and he stopped believing anything i said years ago.....

[Dan Drake]

I'm the best putter I know. I don't recall ever missing a putt that mattered.*

 

Putting is all mental. Spreadsheets and Excel docs ain't going to help you make the 5 foot downhill breaker you need to win your match. Lots of (smart) practice - along with the confidence and strong mental game that come with it - is the only thing that's going to help you when you're out there all by yourself in a pressure situation.

 

*I tell myself before every round. The more I believe it, the better I score.

 

Tatertot, you are exactly right! Smart practice will lead to confidence and that means better putting! The spreadsheet simply helps you get pointed in the right direction so you aren’t practicing something unnecessarily.

 

Blade hunter, can you post a pic of the graph on the other tab? What you posted only show the cumulative, and I would like to see your per round numbers.

[bladehunter]

On my mobile now. Give me 30-45 minutes and I sure willl.

[MadGolfer76]

Eh, I've never had any issues with putting. I can always be better, but I do really well when I need to. I've always kind of thought being a good putter is just as much about where you leave yourself and making smart choices than it is about perfecting your stroke. I don't get all the weird grips and philosophies, admittedly.

[kc_hacker]

On top of expectations and practice, the thing that has helped me most the past few years is placing 100% trust in the read and hitting it to that spot. Most of the people I play with will aim high enough, but swing towards the hole instead of their intended line. The subconscious is a difficult beast to tame.

[bladehunter]

Here are graphs. as i read these , until putts fall from 5-15 ft one will remain in the negative strokes gained category . Yes? My question then is how many ? I have never historically made many. My birdies come from par 5s hit in 2 and approaches that are tight . Its pretty curious to me that we tell folks to " aim for the middle of the green and 2 putt" yet these numbers clearly show that you are loosing strokes if you do that .

 

I guess what im saying is , i expected the numbers to swing back toward positive ( not positive just less negative) with a full 18 hole round with only 1 3 putt . Yet they seem to have doubled towards the negative

[ThinkingPlus]

Here are graphs. as i read these , until putts fall from 5-15 ft one will remain in the negative strokes gained category . Yes? My question then is how many ? I have never historically made many. My birdies come from par 5s hit in 2 and approaches that are tight . Its pretty curious to me that we tell folks to " aim for the middle of the green and 2 putt" yet these numbers clearly show that you are loosing strokes if you do that .

 

I guess what im saying is , i expected the numbers to swing back toward positive ( not positive just less negative) with a full 18 hole round with only 1 3 putt . Yet they seem to have doubled towards the negative

For me it comes down to balancing greenside risk (pin position proximity to bunkers, water, etc...) against ball striking skill. Every player has to constantly perform that assessment. I made 5 birds yesterday on punched greens and it wasn't because of superior putting from mid-range. It was take dead aim on the pin and stuff it inside of 10 feet. I don't go at every pin (that would be crazy, right?), but give me an accessible pin, a good number, reasonable club, and I'm going to try and stuff one. Proximity rules.

[bladehunter]

Here are graphs. as i read these , until putts fall from 5-15 ft one will remain in the negative strokes gained category . Yes? My question then is how many ? I have never historically made many. My birdies come from par 5s hit in 2 and approaches that are tight . Its pretty curious to me that we tell folks to " aim for the middle of the green and 2 putt" yet these numbers clearly show that you are loosing strokes if you do that .

 

I guess what im saying is , i expected the numbers to swing back toward positive ( not positive just less negative) with a full 18 hole round with only 1 3 putt . Yet they seem to have doubled towards the negative

For me it comes down to balancing greenside risk (pin position proximity to bunkers, water, etc...) against ball striking skill. Every player has to constantly perform that assessment. I made 5 birds yesterday on punched greens and it wasn't because of superior putting from mid-range. It was take dead aim on the pin and stuff it inside of 10 feet. I don't go at every pin (that would be crazy, right?), but give me an accessible pin, a good number, reasonable club, and I'm going to try and stuff one. Proximity rules.

 

 

Yes. My thinking exactly. I have a great wedge game. Short or full swing. Why not use it ? So silly though. I literally feel zero dread on any bunker situation. Yet I still have to think to breathe over a 20-30 foot putt. Proving yet again it isn’t about safe strategy. Or stoke. It’s al in the mind.

[North Butte]

Here are graphs. as i read these , until putts fall from 5-15 ft one will remain in the negative strokes gained category . Yes? My question then is how many ? I have never historically made many. My birdies come from par 5s hit in 2 and approaches that are tight . Its pretty curious to me that we tell folks to " aim for the middle of the green and 2 putt" yet these numbers clearly show that you are loosing strokes if you do that .

 

I guess what im saying is , i expected the numbers to swing back toward positive ( not positive just less negative) with a full 18 hole round with only 1 3 putt . Yet they seem to have doubled towards the negative

For me it comes down to balancing greenside risk (pin position proximity to bunkers, water, etc...) against ball striking skill. Every player has to constantly perform that assessment. I made 5 birds yesterday on punched greens and it wasn't because of superior putting from mid-range. It was take dead aim on the pin and stuff it inside of 10 feet. I don't go at every pin (that would be crazy, right?), but give me an accessible pin, a good number, reasonable club, and I'm going to try and stuff one. Proximity rules.

 

 

Yes. My thinking exactly. I have a great wedge game. Short or full swing. Why not use it ? So silly though. I literally feel zero dread on any bunker situation. Yet I still have to think to breathe over a 20-30 foot putt. Proving yet again it isn't about safe strategy. Or stoke. It's al in the mind.

 

I on the other hand throw up a little in the back of my mouth over a simple pitch from 10 yards short of the green. Yet I feel comfortable using the putter from 3x that far out in the fairway.

 

And don't even ask me about bunkers. I can (and occasionally do) hit 6, 8, 10 bunker shots in a row that are perfectly fine over the course of several rounds. But no matter how many good ones I've hit lately, standing over the next one I will 100% convinced I'm going to either leave it in the sand or blade it into the next ZIP code.