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Hickory vs Titanium on a Trackman!


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Got to do something really fun today, hit my modern clubs side by side with hickory!

 

My club had a Titleist ball fitting today and I was the last fitting so they let me goof around with my hickory clubs on the Trackman.

 

The screen shot is of a hickory drive and the shot dispersion side of the screen you can see where the hickory drive landed vs. titanium. A 30 yard difference in carry (217.9 vs 248) and a 25 yard difference in total distance (237.5 vs 262)

 

Huge difference in clubhead speed. 93mph with hickory and 104mph with graphite. Not that I couldn't swing as hard with hickory, but the results get very inconsistent because of the high torque in the shaft. 93mph is a swing that gets me good, repeatable results.

 

The titleist fitter was impressed with the numbers for the hickory. Launch, spin and smash factor were all solid. Only way to hit the ball further would be to swing harder :)

 

Club specs:

Hickory: Forgan St Andrews 10*, 43", C-9 swingweight, original Forgan hickory shaft

Titanium: Cobra Zero Limits, 10.5*, 44.5", D-2 swingweight, Matrix HD-6 stiff shaft

 

89d5ce986f0ee2da29b2d90f4f3ec1fc.jpg

 

ecb5069ec8fb1cbe00b4892132359d82.jpg

 

d3aca48bb7107d1722069ea8bacc0bf0.jpg

 

Only thing that would have been better would have been to also get my persimmon woods measured on the Trackman too.

Old stuff:
1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver   1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood   1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E   1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter


New stuff
Cobra ZL 10.5 driver (Matrix HD6 s-flex)  Titleist TSR2 18* fairway wood (Matrix Code-8 s-flex)   Adams A2P 20* hybrid (Rombax 8D07HB s-flex)
Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW (Apex 4 soft-stepped)    Callaway Mack Daddy wedges 52, 56, 60 (DG S200)
Odyssey ProType 9 putter

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Very interesting and revealing and yes I would be very curious as to the numbers with persimmon and steel--- Thanks for posting---- BTW hope Rick Shiels or one of those guys do not see this because they will be in a all night brain storming session trying to refute the results :taunt:

Driver--- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha--- Speeder 565 R flex

5W  --- TM V Steel Fubuki 60r

7W --- TM V Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex

9W--- TM V Steel Stock V Steel R flex shaft

Irons 5 thru PW TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R F

SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified Grind KBS Tour Wedge

LW Vokey SM5 L Grind 58* 04 bounce Stock Vokey Shaft

Putter Macgregor Bobby Grace Mark 4 V-Foil Broomstick

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If I were a Cobra rep, I would not be thrilled in knowing that 100 years of technology innovation resulted in a mere 25yds!

  • Various Brassies depending on mood: Scottish and UK made
  • Tom Stewart: Mongrel, Jigger, Mashie, Mashie Niblick, Niblick
  • Putters:  Tom Stewart blade or Gem, but lately Spalding Hollow Back
  • [url="http://norcalhickory.com"]NorCal Hickory[/url] - [url="http://pacifichickory.com"]Pacific Hickory[/url] - [url="https://www.instagram.com/stymiemagnet/"]StymieMagnet[/url] (100% hickory golf photos on Instagram)
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Got to do something really fun today, hit my modern clubs side by side with hickory!

 

My club had a Titleist ball fitting today and I was the last fitting so they let me goof around with my hickory clubs on the Trackman.

 

The screen shot is of a hickory drive and the shot dispersion side of the screen you can see where the hickory drive landed vs. titanium. A 30 yard difference in carry (217.9 vs 248) and a 25 yard difference in total distance (237.5 vs 262)

 

Huge difference in clubhead speed. 93mph with hickory and 104mph with graphite. Not that I couldn't swing as hard with hickory, but the results get very inconsistent because of the high torque in the shaft. 93mph is a swing that gets me good, repeatable results.

 

The titleist fitter was impressed with the numbers for the hickory. Launch, spin and smash factor were all solid. Only way to hit the ball further would be to swing harder :)

 

Club specs:

Hickory: Forgan St Andrews 10*, 43", C-9 swingweight, original Forgan hickory shaft

Titanium: Cobra Zero Limits, 10.5*, 44.5", D-2 swingweight, Matrix HD-6 stiff shaft

 

89d5ce986f0ee2da29b2d90f4f3ec1fc.jpg

 

ecb5069ec8fb1cbe00b4892132359d82.jpg

 

d3aca48bb7107d1722069ea8bacc0bf0.jpg

 

Only thing that would have been better would have been to also get my persimmon woods measured on the Trackman too.The real test would be to hit each at the at the same swing speed that will show the technology diff.

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The scoring difference between the 2015 US Open and the 1915 US Open is about 30 strokes. I suspect that if one were to look back through the stats, we would find about a 2-3% improvement between eras (hickory to steel, steel to graphite, wood to laminate to alloy) Add to that the improvement in physique, the ball technology, and course management, my sense is that the game is relatively the same all things considered. Scores should be lower, but we really have no way of knowing how the players of the teens and twenties would play if they had modern equipment. We could have current players play with hickory on 100 year old courses, which would be, imo, a fantastic event to witness. Even having them go back to the 1960's equipment and play an entire tournament, like at Oakmont for instance, would be amazing.

 

Something like that, at the end of the season, would be fun for everyone. Make it a huge charity event. Oh well...in my dreams. To the main point though, the comparison between hickory and a modern club is interesting, even if I have no idea what those numbers mean.

:to_become_senile:

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OP - what kind of balls did you use?

 

For the modern clubs, I hit both the Pro-V1 and the X. Virtually no difference off the driver, and that is supposed to be intentional. The differences were seen with the 7-iron and partial wedges. Much higher apex and more spin with the Pro-V1x.

 

For the hickory driver, I only hit the Pro-V1. The fitter said there wouldn't be much difference with the X off the driver, same as with my Cobra. Didn't hit the irons.

Old stuff:
1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver   1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood   1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E   1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter


New stuff
Cobra ZL 10.5 driver (Matrix HD6 s-flex)  Titleist TSR2 18* fairway wood (Matrix Code-8 s-flex)   Adams A2P 20* hybrid (Rombax 8D07HB s-flex)
Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW (Apex 4 soft-stepped)    Callaway Mack Daddy wedges 52, 56, 60 (DG S200)
Odyssey ProType 9 putter

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So what titleist are you getting?

 

Switching from Pro-V1 to the X. The higher spin and trajectory was significant for me off the irons and wedges. Don't like the feel off the putter, but I'll get used to it (I hope).

Old stuff:
1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver   1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood   1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E   1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter


New stuff
Cobra ZL 10.5 driver (Matrix HD6 s-flex)  Titleist TSR2 18* fairway wood (Matrix Code-8 s-flex)   Adams A2P 20* hybrid (Rombax 8D07HB s-flex)
Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW (Apex 4 soft-stepped)    Callaway Mack Daddy wedges 52, 56, 60 (DG S200)
Odyssey ProType 9 putter

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The scoring difference between the 2015 US Open and the 1915 US Open is about 30 strokes. I suspect that if one were to look back through the stats, we would find about a 2-3% improvement between eras (hickory to steel, steel to graphite, wood to laminate to alloy) Add to that the improvement in physique, the ball technology, and course management, my sense is that the game is relatively the same all things considered. Scores should be lower, but we really have no way of knowing how the players of the teens and twenties would play if they had modern equipment. We could have current players play with hickory on 100 year old courses, which would be, imo, a fantastic event to witness. Even having them go back to the 1960's equipment and play an entire tournament, like at Oakmont for instance, would be amazing.

 

Something like that, at the end of the season, would be fun for everyone. Make it a huge charity event. Oh well...in my dreams. To the main point though, the comparison between hickory and a modern club is interesting, even if I have no idea what those numbers mean.

:to_become_senile:

I agree and I have said that for years. As it being a charity event that is one fantastic idea. The only drawback I see is that it would not have much mainstream support. The mainstream guys could not appreciate the old stuff like we do after all we played it and to some extent still play it. And truthfully I ain't too "hip" on the numbers thing either. I have only been on a Trackman one time and it was a friend of mine's machine and I trusted what he was telling me. I did learn what others had said about Titleist drivers as in they spin a lot because I saw the sidespin I was putting on my 915 with my anti hook cut swing . But I also saw something else and he backed it up. I am more accurate with the 915 because I know what it is going to do (in most cases) and can compensate for it. That Homna in my signature is a lot hotter off the face but I do not control it quite as well not bad but not as good

Driver--- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha--- Speeder 565 R flex

5W  --- TM V Steel Fubuki 60r

7W --- TM V Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex

9W--- TM V Steel Stock V Steel R flex shaft

Irons 5 thru PW TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R F

SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified Grind KBS Tour Wedge

LW Vokey SM5 L Grind 58* 04 bounce Stock Vokey Shaft

Putter Macgregor Bobby Grace Mark 4 V-Foil Broomstick

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The test should be same swing speed, that will show the real difference. Should still Dr substantial.

That would be hard for the average human to do with the different swing weights and sizes of the heads> Think as in air displacement and the overall weights of the clubs. But now on a machine like an Iron Byron that would be in the words of Artie Johnson "verrry interesting"

Driver--- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha--- Speeder 565 R flex

5W  --- TM V Steel Fubuki 60r

7W --- TM V Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex

9W--- TM V Steel Stock V Steel R flex shaft

Irons 5 thru PW TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R F

SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified Grind KBS Tour Wedge

LW Vokey SM5 L Grind 58* 04 bounce Stock Vokey Shaft

Putter Macgregor Bobby Grace Mark 4 V-Foil Broomstick

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The test should be same swing speed, that will show the real difference. Should still Dr substantial.

That would be hard for the average human to do with the different swing weights and sizes of the heads> Think as in air displacement and the overall weights of the clubs. But now on a machine like an Iron Byron that would be in the words of Artie Johnson "verrry interesting"

 

Stu - this is the one thing that is missing from the current distance debate - some science. To anyone's eye the ball is travelling further "than it used to" (combo of ball itself, club tech and increased player athleticism), and indeed too far at the very highest level (IMHO) but what is needed is some rigorous Iron Byron testing, in very small swing speed increments to see what effect the current ball is having, compared to an old ball, or even a "rolled-back" ball. Smarter people than me are of the belief that the vast majority of golfers do not swing fast enough to see any difference between a ProV and a "rolled-back" ball (so no one is going to be taking their 20 yards away) and I'd assume that some Iron Byron testing would confirm that - but we just need to see it!

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I've read this several times,it is an eye-opener but mostly I'm impressed (and envious!) of the OP's ability.

I will agree he has some good tempo and rhythm to his swing to be able to hit a Hickory that good. But from what I have seen most guys that play hickory a lot do have good timing and tempo. And from the numbers he put up with the hickory he is also an excellent ball striker. Yeah I am envious too

Driver--- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha--- Speeder 565 R flex

5W  --- TM V Steel Fubuki 60r

7W --- TM V Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex

9W--- TM V Steel Stock V Steel R flex shaft

Irons 5 thru PW TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R F

SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified Grind KBS Tour Wedge

LW Vokey SM5 L Grind 58* 04 bounce Stock Vokey Shaft

Putter Macgregor Bobby Grace Mark 4 V-Foil Broomstick

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Share on other sites

I've read this several times,it is an eye-opener but mostly I'm impressed (and envious!) of the OP's ability.

I will agree he has some good tempo and rhythm to his swing to be able to hit a Hickory that good. But from what I have seen most guys that play hickory a lot do have good timing and tempo. And from the numbers he put up with the hickory he is also an excellent ball striker. Yeah I am envious too

 

Thanks Big Stu and Chris122!

 

I do have an old school swing, much more like Payne Stewart than Tiger, with a very smooth transition at the top. It also probably helps that I play persimmon regularly as well, so the small head doesn't bother me.

Old stuff:
1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver   1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood   1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E   1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter


New stuff
Cobra ZL 10.5 driver (Matrix HD6 s-flex)  Titleist TSR2 18* fairway wood (Matrix Code-8 s-flex)   Adams A2P 20* hybrid (Rombax 8D07HB s-flex)
Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW (Apex 4 soft-stepped)    Callaway Mack Daddy wedges 52, 56, 60 (DG S200)
Odyssey ProType 9 putter

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