Monte's Plane & Release Feel - Too good to be true?

[ironcat]

One of Monte's most popular videos is the Plane & Release video:

 

I've seen many similar videos and demonstrations both live and on youtube - and the insinuation is that the golf swing is simply a turn of the shoulders on an inclined angle. The "proof" of this is always a pro swinging standing upright and part way through he/she adds some bend at the waist and hey presto you are in the perfect golf swing.

 

I've long tried to replicate this feel, for many years now, but it get's me inside and flat. I've come to realise that this is because the swing simply doesn't work that way - there has to be a lifting of the arms but these examples never takes that into account.

 

I've used Monte's video as an example - he goes through the motions of bending at the waist and getting into a good address position, but what isn't mention is that there is a also a substantial arm drop in order to get into an address position - whether on purpose or as a subconscious move, monte's address position is certainly not the same but with a bit of bend. He also has dropped his arms quite a bit.

 

See attached screenshots clearly showing this.

 

Image 1 - Monte standing upright

Image 2 - Monte bending over into an address position

Image 3 - Photoshop of image 1 but rotated so the spine angle matches image 2 - we can now clearly see his arms are much higher and must have dropped as he bent over.

 

Am I misunderstanding the video or is this my personal aha moment?

 

Would this explain why so many students of the game are inside and flat - I know I'm not only one who's been told to just turn on an inclined plane, 1 piece type move.

 

Note: I don't want to appear to be criticising Monte here; this is something I've seen demonstrated many times by many people, I just used this as it's mentioned and referenced so many times on WRX. I know Monte has another very good video of how the arms must lift, but this seems to contradict this one. I ♥ Monte.

[PorscheFan]

I like your style.

 

I've always wondered about this and don't have a clear opinion either way, but I love it when people are prepared to question a little more and dig a little deeper.

[oikos1]

I miss the cargo shorts

[dwboston]

I don't think you are missing anything, I just don't think this is the whole picture of the swing. I think if you think about this concept along with Monte's "3 elements of the backswing" (wrist hinge, forearm rotation, shoulder turn) that it will make more sense.

 

To me the real point of this video, which I've heard him say in several clinics, is that the bend at the waist is "all the down you need" in the swing, if that makes sense.

 

Just my opinion.

[Golfbeat]

This is an old one but as he explains it you should actually swing on that higher plane and the club head should drop on its own. I like it.

 

[BottleCap]

This works for me as long as my hands don't do anything at all and just go along for the ride

[Exactice808]

I created a thread about a week ago basically this.

http://www.golfwrx.c...0-ah-ha-moment/

 

 

I have watched but never understood, Arm Swing Illusion threads and Videos that and Monte's plane video. I watch videos/read the threads But I did NOT comprehend the points.

 

 

Finally after some time... something clicked, NOW to your point, There is the single plane or 2 plane swing. The Moe Norman/Bryson, single plane. Or the Traditional TW/Mcilroy 2 plane.

 

The only different is that there is no "SWING" there is a vertical lift of the arms UP and DOWN. the rotation of the trunk like Monte Demonstrates is the "staying on plane" motion.

 

 

You keep your hands in front, You dont swing the club or arms or hands around the body. You rotate the mass as a WHOLE, around your trunk, YOU lift your arms vertically up on the back swing to INCREASE speed. you then DROP your arms down on a vertical plane and un coil the remainder of the body, you DONT intentionally or consciously "swing" the arms back.

 

 

I was opposite, I would move my arms and not rotate properly. Thus either your arms cross your chest flat, Or if you took your arms vertical, with to much swing you come over the top because your arm movements are over active.......While montes plane and feel video is not necessarily the whole swing. I think the intent was to state that the arms dont start and or move around the body. The arms are static and the trunk should rotate the arms, club, hands as a total mass.

[Jim Waldron]

I created a thread about a week ago basically this.

http://www.golfwrx.c...0-ah-ha-moment/

 

 

I have watched but never understood, Arm Swing Illusion threads and Videos that and Monte's plane video. I watch videos/read the threads But I did NOT comprehend the points.

 

 

Finally after some time... something clicked, NOW to your point, There is the single plane or 2 plane swing. The Moe Norman/Bryson, single plane. Or the Traditional TW/Mcilroy 2 plane.

 

The only different is that there is no "SWING" there is a vertical lift of the arms UP and DOWN. the rotation of the trunk like Monte Demonstrates is the "staying on plane" motion.

 

 

You keep your hands in front, You dont swing the club or arms or hands around the body. You rotate the mass as a WHOLE, around your trunk, YOU lift your arms vertically up on the back swing to INCREASE speed. you then DROP your arms down on a vertical plane and un coil the remainder of the body, you DONT intentionally or consciously "swing" the arms back.

 

 

I was opposite, I would move my arms and not rotate properly. Thus either your arms cross your chest flat, Or if you took your arms vertical, with to much swing you come over the top because your arm movements are over active.......While montes plane and feel video is not necessarily the whole swing. I think the intent was to state that the arms dont start and or move around the body. The arms are static and the trunk should rotate the arms, club, hands as a total mass.

 

Some great insights there, E!

 

BUT - a common misconception of how I teach the golf swing using the ASI principle is that you "lift" your arms upwards. They go up for sure but there is no "lifting" - your right elbow folding raises left arm. The arms make a V shape in front of the tilting/rotating chest.

 

Pivot makes most of the arm motion in a good golf swing - not the arms themselves.

[Millbrook]

I followed up on Golfbeats recommendation and watched part two;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNbVAYFi4ys

 

I had the same Ah moment Exactice 808 had a couple of days before he started his thread. My friend and when went to have some clubs built and she picked hers up before I could get mine so I went round to look at them.

 

We were outside on a gravel path and I did not want to risk hitting the ground so I swung them like the video above with the club head about 18 inches above the ground. I realised then how little the arms do.

 

Played on Sunday with mixed results, hooked 3 drives when normally my miss is a push but hit some lovely straight irons and 3 perfect drives down the middle with a slight draw.

 

The thing I haven't worked out is unfolding the trail arm and whether it should be done consciously to get a bit of extra snap into the 'swing'.

 

Edit: The thing is that when I was 'swinging' my friends new club I was just trying to get the feel of it. In the absence of a ball to hit I was more connected like the 9-3 thread Dan put up and that's why it became noticeable how little the arms do.

[Silky]

I want to re-describe my prior post in another thread hoping it is more illustrative.

 

Recall Hogan's pane of glass? My concept now is that the lead shoulder should move in that pane of glass at the top in the figure below and there is more.......

 

 

 

The right elbow is important too as another joint where momentum and energy is transferred between the pivot and the club. So should the movement of the right elbow joint be constrained too? I think yes, in the bottom pane of glass. Then, we have a dual tugging of the club by these two "3-d tugboats" powered by the pivot. What good does this do?

 

Firstly, the motion of the hands is determined by the motions of these dual "3-d tugboats". The lead arm and the trail forearm are just passive linkages or rigid lever. Secondly, the orientation of the club is determined by the motion of the hands like a shopping cart realigned itself to the direction of the pull.

 

The hands should move in between there two panes of glass. There is moment arm to torque the lead arm and the hands to the top pane of glass. At the same time there is another moment arm to torque the trail forearm and the hands to the bottom pane of glass. So, the path of the hands and the orientation of the club being pinned by the two opposing torques is very stable and as the hands being tugged down, the space between the panes of glass being narrower automatically focuses the hands and the orientation of the club toward impact with the ball.

 

I guess that at P6 with the hands being closest to the target line, the lead shoulder and the trail elbow should be closest to the target line at P6 or before (?) and powerfully propelled upward away from the target line along the respective panes by the turning of the pivot to crank the club downward toward the ball.

 

I hope this further clarify Monte's plane and release video and also his leading with the right elbow swing thought.