Lie angle question

[Whit1969]

Not sure if this is the right forum or not but my question pertains to lie angle on irons. I have pretty much always played Titleist irons and I have always been standard L/L/L with them as it pertains to Titleist standards. I have picked up a set of Mizuno JPX 900 Forged standard L/L/L and the length is 1/4" shorter and the lie angles are on average 1.5 degrees flatter lie angle than Titleist. For example AP2 7 iron lie angle is 63 whereas the JPX is 61.5 degrees. With them being a little shorter and a flatter lie angle is this too much of a change and would this explain more contact towards the toe on my shots? Also, it is hard for me to draw the ball the JPX as most shots are straight or have a slight fade to them. I have a more upright/steep swing and not a flat swing. Also I am struggling with turf interaction with the JPX as they just want to dig in. Need some help as my iron game is struggling right now.

 

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[Awainer1]

With them being a little shorter and a flatter lie angle is this too much of a change and would this explain more contact towards the toe on my shots?

 

Yes and this is why you dont just grab irons off the shelf because they look pretty

[BlakeBstone]

1 or 2 degrees isn’t going to change turf interaction but can effect ball flight

[Jagpilotohio]

As stated for the millionth time here: Use some face impact stickers and mark your ball vertically with a dry erease marker, and see what the pattern is.

 

After you find out that they are almost surely too flat, have them bent. I bend nearly every iron I’ve ever owned. They are rarely all on spec anyways.

 

If Titleist specs have always fit you it is not logical to think the Mizuno specs would even be close to what you need.

 

Yes, you will leak balls to the right of target if your lies are too flat, especially on your mid and short irons. You will pull everything if they are too upright.

 

The fact they are 1/4 inch shorter actually makes them play 1/4 degree FLATTER than if they were the titleist length. It’s a one to one relationship. If you make a club 1/2 inch longer, it plays 1/2 degree more upright, even though the actual reading on a machine doesn’t change. If you make it a 1/2 inch shorter it plays 1/2 degree flatter.

 

The 7 iron example you gave is actually PLAYING 1.75 degrees flatter than the Titleist Because it is shorter. It will read 1.5 degrees flatter on the machine, but it will play 1.75 degrees flatter.

[Whit1969]

As stated for the millionth time here: Use some face impact stickers and mark your ball vertically with a dry erease marker, and see what the pattern is.

 

After you find out that they are almost surely too flat, have them bent. I bend nearly every iron I've ever owned. They are rarely all on spec anyways.

 

If Titleist specs have always fit you it is not logical to think the Mizuno specs would even be close to what you need.

 

Yes, you will leak balls to the right of target if your lies are too flat, especially on your mid and short irons. You will pull everything if they are too upright.

 

The fact they are 1/4 inch shorter actually makes them play 1/4 degree FLATTER than if they were the titleist length. It's a one to one relationship. If you make a club 1/2 inch longer, it plays 1/2 degree more upright, even though the actual reading on a machine doesn't change. If you make it a 1/2 inch shorter it plays 1/2 degree flatter.

 

The 7 iron example you gave is actually PLAYING 1.75 degrees flatter than the Titleist Because it is shorter. It will read 1.5 degrees flatter on the machine, but it will play 1.75 degrees flatter.

 

Thanks! I will give this a try, but I can tell on the face of the club after each shot that they are more out towards the toe. Not really sure if I want to have them bent or just scrap the irons and go back to Titleist at this point. There are not really any good club fitters in my area that I would trust.

[Howard_Jones]

Take the iron thats normally your favorite (maybe the #8?).

 

Do the ball marker test, and if the label say LESS than 2.0* up, have this single club adjusted and test it again.

 

Lie angles is hardly ever what specs say they are, even on custom orders, and since TM seems to measure play lenght with actual lie angle, and Titleist uses a fix lie of 60*, the actual play lenght difference vary within the set, so the slope for lie might not be the same

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

Link to face labels for lieangles

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1355102-open-source-face-labels-for-lie-angle-diy-lie-angle-testing/page__st__30#entry13852174

[Whit1969]

Here is my seven iron after marking red lines on the ball to see where impact area is. Feel free to chime in with thoughts or suggestions or what you would recommend.

 

 

[5hort5tuff]

The lie angle looks okay. I believe the lines would be more diagonal if they were off. You may just need to step slightly closer to the ball to adjust to the new length...

[Whit1969]

The lie angle looks okay. I believe the lines would be more diagonal if they were off. You may just need to step slightly closer to the ball to adjust to the new length...

 

Thanks

[Whit1969]

Bump, looking for any more recommendations or suggestions.

[mcs4]

Have you compared the Mizunos side-by-side with others to see if they actually shorter? There is a school of thought that suggests that they play basically they same length as Titlest standard, it's just that Mizuno measures before putting the grip on versus after. I've owned a fair amount of Mizuno clubs over the past two years and they have all been identical in length to the equivalent clubs I've measured them against (including my set of Titleist 716 CBs), to my eye.

[Whit1969]

Have you compared the Mizunos side-by-side with others to see if they actually shorter? There is a school of thought that suggests that they play basically they same length as Titlest standard, it's just that Mizuno measures before putting the grip on versus after. I've owned a fair amount of Mizuno clubs over the past two years and they have all been identical in length to the equivalent clubs I've measured them against (including my set of Titleist 716 CBs), to my eye.

 

That would make sense. I will measure them tonight with the grips on.

[mcs4]

Also, for what it's worth, I took my last set of Mizuno gamers to a tech and had the the lies adjusted to Titleist standard, and while they ever so slightly suited my eye better at address afterward I did not notice any particular improvement in performance. Before doing that I occasionally switched back and forth between the Titleist CBs and Mizunos, and generally it seemed that I would adjust to the small difference in stock lie angles within a fairly short time.