Lie angle question

 Whit1969 ·  
Whit1969Whit1969  1063WRX Points: 134Members Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
Joined:  in WRX Club Techs #1
Not sure if this is the right forum or not but my question pertains to lie angle on irons. I have pretty much always played Titleist irons and I have always been standard L/L/L with them as it pertains to Titleist standards. I have picked up a set of Mizuno JPX 900 Forged standard L/L/L and the length is 1/4" shorter and the lie angles are on average 1.5 degrees flatter lie angle than Titleist. For example AP2 7 iron lie angle is 63 whereas the JPX is 61.5 degrees. With them being a little shorter and a flatter lie angle is this too much of a change and would this explain more contact towards the toe on my shots? Also, it is hard for me to draw the ball the JPX as most shots are straight or have a slight fade to them. I have a more upright/steep swing and not a flat swing. Also I am struggling with turf interaction with the JPX as they just want to dig in. Need some help as my iron game is struggling right now.



I
Posted:
Taylormade 2016 M2 PX Hzrdus Smoke 70
Callaway Rogue 3 wood PX Evenflow Blue 75
Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 4-GW PX LZ 5.5
Vokey SM6  54, 58
Ping Scottsdale TR Anser 2 

1

Comments

  • Awainer1Awainer1  925WRX Points: 105Members Posts: 925 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #2
    Whit1969 wrote:


    With them being a little shorter and a flatter lie angle is this too much of a change and would this explain more contact towards the toe on my shots?




    Yes and this is why you dont just grab irons off the shelf because they look pretty
    Posted:
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  • BlakeBstoneBlakeBstone  2418WRX Points: 56Handicap: +2.1Members Posts: 2,418 Platinum Tees
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    1 or 2 degrees isn’t going to change turf interaction but can effect ball flight
    Posted:
    My Bag
    Callaway Epic SZ 9* Rogue 125msi 70x
    TM M1 3w Kuro Kage 80x
    Bridgestone j15 cb's w/modus 120x's
    Titleist SM6 52,54,60
    odyssey big T
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OH 7270WRX Points: 579Handicap: 1.8Members Posts: 7,270 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 5, 2018 #4
    As stated for the millionth time here: Use some face impact stickers and mark your ball vertically with a dry erease marker, and see what the pattern is.



    After you find out that they are almost surely too flat, have them bent. I bend nearly every iron I’ve ever owned. They are rarely all on spec anyways.



    If Titleist specs have always fit you it is not logical to think the Mizuno specs would even be close to what you need.



    Yes, you will leak balls to the right of target if your lies are too flat, especially on your mid and short irons. You will pull everything if they are too upright.



    The fact they are 1/4 inch shorter actually makes them play 1/4 degree FLATTER than if they were the titleist length. It’s a one to one relationship. If you make a club 1/2 inch longer, it plays 1/2 degree more upright, even though the actual reading on a machine doesn’t change. If you make it a 1/2 inch shorter it plays 1/2 degree flatter.



    The 7 iron example you gave is actually PLAYING 1.75 degrees flatter than the Titleist Because it is shorter. It will read 1.5 degrees flatter on the machine, but it will play 1.75 degrees flatter.
    Posted:
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • Whit1969Whit1969  1063WRX Points: 134Members Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #5


    As stated for the millionth time here: Use some face impact stickers and mark your ball vertically with a dry erease marker, and see what the pattern is.



    After you find out that they are almost surely too flat, have them bent. I bend nearly every iron I've ever owned. They are rarely all on spec anyways.



    If Titleist specs have always fit you it is not logical to think the Mizuno specs would even be close to what you need.



    Yes, you will leak balls to the right of target if your lies are too flat, especially on your mid and short irons. You will pull everything if they are too upright.



    The fact they are 1/4 inch shorter actually makes them play 1/4 degree FLATTER than if they were the titleist length. It's a one to one relationship. If you make a club 1/2 inch longer, it plays 1/2 degree more upright, even though the actual reading on a machine doesn't change. If you make it a 1/2 inch shorter it plays 1/2 degree flatter.



    The 7 iron example you gave is actually PLAYING 1.75 degrees flatter than the Titleist Because it is shorter. It will read 1.5 degrees flatter on the machine, but it will play 1.75 degrees flatter.




    Thanks! I will give this a try, but I can tell on the face of the club after each shot that they are more out towards the toe. Not really sure if I want to have them bent or just scrap the irons and go back to Titleist at this point. There are not really any good club fitters in my area that I would trust.
    Posted:
    Taylormade 2016 M2 PX Hzrdus Smoke 70
    Callaway Rogue 3 wood PX Evenflow Blue 75
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 4-GW PX LZ 5.5
    Vokey SM6  54, 58
    Ping Scottsdale TR Anser 2 

  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones  10352WRX Points: 1,467Members Posts: 10,352 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #6
    Take the iron thats normally your favorite (maybe the #8?).



    Do the ball marker test, and if the label say LESS than 2.0* up, have this single club adjusted and test it again.



    Lie angles is hardly ever what specs say they are, even on custom orders, and since TM seems to measure play lenght with actual lie angle, and Titleist uses a fix lie of 60*, the actual play lenght difference vary within the set, so the slope for lie might not be the same



    Posted:

    PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME PMs ON CLUB TECH ISSUES - ASK PUBLIC IN THE FORUM.

    Unless you are a former Customer or someone i already have a PM dialog with, i want reply to tech questions on PMs.

  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones  10352WRX Points: 1,467Members Posts: 10,352 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #7
    Posted:

    PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME PMs ON CLUB TECH ISSUES - ASK PUBLIC IN THE FORUM.

    Unless you are a former Customer or someone i already have a PM dialog with, i want reply to tech questions on PMs.

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  • Whit1969Whit1969  1063WRX Points: 134Members Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #8
    Here is my seven iron after marking red lines on the ball to see where impact area is. Feel free to chime in with thoughts or suggestions or what you would recommend.



    Posted:
    Taylormade 2016 M2 PX Hzrdus Smoke 70
    Callaway Rogue 3 wood PX Evenflow Blue 75
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 4-GW PX LZ 5.5
    Vokey SM6  54, 58
    Ping Scottsdale TR Anser 2 

  • 5hort5tuff5hort5tuff  3471WRX Points: 204Members Posts: 3,471 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2018 #9
    The lie angle looks okay. I believe the lines would be more diagonal if they were off. You may just need to step slightly closer to the ball to adjust to the new length...
    Posted:
    COBRA LTD w. Hzrdus Red
    WISHON 919 w. Hzrdus Red
    TAYLORMADE Issue Aeroburner w. Tensei Blue
    PING G25 w. Tensei Blue
    PING I200 w. AWT 2.0
    PING Glide 2.0 Stealth
    MannKrafted Carbon WB Rattler
    Xenon Copper Wide X
    SGC 902
  • Whit1969Whit1969  1063WRX Points: 134Members Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #10
    81PING wrote:


    The lie angle looks okay. I believe the lines would be more diagonal if they were off. You may just need to step slightly closer to the ball to adjust to the new length...




    Thanks
    Posted:
    Taylormade 2016 M2 PX Hzrdus Smoke 70
    Callaway Rogue 3 wood PX Evenflow Blue 75
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 4-GW PX LZ 5.5
    Vokey SM6  54, 58
    Ping Scottsdale TR Anser 2 

  • Whit1969Whit1969  1063WRX Points: 134Members Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #11
    Bump, looking for any more recommendations or suggestions.
    Posted:
    Taylormade 2016 M2 PX Hzrdus Smoke 70
    Callaway Rogue 3 wood PX Evenflow Blue 75
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 4-GW PX LZ 5.5
    Vokey SM6  54, 58
    Ping Scottsdale TR Anser 2 

  • mcs4mcs4 South Florida 658WRX Points: 61Handicap: 12Members Posts: 658 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #12
    Have you compared the Mizunos side-by-side with others to see if they actually shorter? There is a school of thought that suggests that they play basically they same length as Titlest standard, it's just that Mizuno measures before putting the grip on versus after. I've owned a fair amount of Mizuno clubs over the past two years and they have all been identical in length to the equivalent clubs I've measured them against (including my set of Titleist 716 CBs), to my eye.
    Posted:
    Cobra King F7 (Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60, stiff)
    Cobra AMP 4w (Comp CZ)
    Mizuno MP-H4 3 iron (Aldila Tour Green 85)
    Mizuno MP-H4 4 iron (Steelfiber 95)
    Mizuno MP-25 5-PW (Steelfiber 110)
    Ping i E1, 50 deg. (Recoil 110)
    Nike Engage 56 deg. (Recoil 95)
    Nike Engage 59 deg. (Recoil 95)
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  • Whit1969Whit1969  1063WRX Points: 134Members Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #13
    mcs4 wrote:


    Have you compared the Mizunos side-by-side with others to see if they actually shorter? There is a school of thought that suggests that they play basically they same length as Titlest standard, it's just that Mizuno measures before putting the grip on versus after. I've owned a fair amount of Mizuno clubs over the past two years and they have all been identical in length to the equivalent clubs I've measured them against (including my set of Titleist 716 CBs), to my eye.




    That would make sense. I will measure them tonight with the grips on.
    Posted:
    Taylormade 2016 M2 PX Hzrdus Smoke 70
    Callaway Rogue 3 wood PX Evenflow Blue 75
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 4-GW PX LZ 5.5
    Vokey SM6  54, 58
    Ping Scottsdale TR Anser 2 

  • mcs4mcs4 South Florida 658WRX Points: 61Handicap: 12Members Posts: 658 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #14
    Also, for what it's worth, I took my last set of Mizuno gamers to a tech and had the the lies adjusted to Titleist standard, and while they ever so slightly suited my eye better at address afterward I did not notice any particular improvement in performance. Before doing that I occasionally switched back and forth between the Titleist CBs and Mizunos, and generally it seemed that I would adjust to the small difference in stock lie angles within a fairly short time.
    Posted:
    Cobra King F7 (Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60, stiff)
    Cobra AMP 4w (Comp CZ)
    Mizuno MP-H4 3 iron (Aldila Tour Green 85)
    Mizuno MP-H4 4 iron (Steelfiber 95)
    Mizuno MP-25 5-PW (Steelfiber 110)
    Ping i E1, 50 deg. (Recoil 110)
    Nike Engage 56 deg. (Recoil 95)
    Nike Engage 59 deg. (Recoil 95)

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