Lie angle question

Whit1969Whit1969 Members Posts: 962 ✭✭
Not sure if this is the right forum or not but my question pertains to lie angle on irons. I have pretty much always played Titleist irons and I have always been standard L/L/L with them as it pertains to Titleist standards. I have picked up a set of Mizuno JPX 900 Forged standard L/L/L and the length is 1/4" shorter and the lie angles are on average 1.5 degrees flatter lie angle than Titleist. For example AP2 7 iron lie angle is 63 whereas the JPX is 61.5 degrees. With them being a little shorter and a flatter lie angle is this too much of a change and would this explain more contact towards the toe on my shots? Also, it is hard for me to draw the ball the JPX as most shots are straight or have a slight fade to them. I have a more upright/steep swing and not a flat swing. Also I am struggling with turf interaction with the JPX as they just want to dig in. Need some help as my iron game is struggling right now.



I
[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Taylormade 2016 M2 Diamana D+ 70
Taylormade 2016 M1 3 wood Diamana S+ Limited 70
Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
Titleist 718AP2 4-PW DG AMT Tour White
Vokey SM6 50, 54, 58
Odyssey O-Works #7
Snell MTB-Black[/font]

Comments

  • Awainer1Awainer1 Members Posts: 850 ✭✭
    Whit1969 wrote:


    With them being a little shorter and a flatter lie angle is this too much of a change and would this explain more contact towards the toe on my shots?




    Yes and this is why you dont just grab irons off the shelf because they look pretty
  • BlakeBstoneBlakeBstone Members Posts: 2,415 ✭✭
    1 or 2 degrees isn’t going to change turf interaction but can effect ball flight
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  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,169 ✭✭
    edited Jun 5, 2018 #4
    As stated for the millionth time here: Use some face impact stickers and mark your ball vertically with a dry erease marker, and see what the pattern is.



    After you find out that they are almost surely too flat, have them bent. I bend nearly every iron I’ve ever owned. They are rarely all on spec anyways.



    If Titleist specs have always fit you it is not logical to think the Mizuno specs would even be close to what you need.



    Yes, you will leak balls to the right of target if your lies are too flat, especially on your mid and short irons. You will pull everything if they are too upright.



    The fact they are 1/4 inch shorter actually makes them play 1/4 degree FLATTER than if they were the titleist length. It’s a one to one relationship. If you make a club 1/2 inch longer, it plays 1/2 degree more upright, even though the actual reading on a machine doesn’t change. If you make it a 1/2 inch shorter it plays 1/2 degree flatter.



    The 7 iron example you gave is actually PLAYING 1.75 degrees flatter than the Titleist Because it is shorter. It will read 1.5 degrees flatter on the machine, but it will play 1.75 degrees flatter.
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  • Whit1969Whit1969 Members Posts: 962 ✭✭


    As stated for the millionth time here: Use some face impact stickers and mark your ball vertically with a dry erease marker, and see what the pattern is.



    After you find out that they are almost surely too flat, have them bent. I bend nearly every iron I've ever owned. They are rarely all on spec anyways.



    If Titleist specs have always fit you it is not logical to think the Mizuno specs would even be close to what you need.



    Yes, you will leak balls to the right of target if your lies are too flat, especially on your mid and short irons. You will pull everything if they are too upright.



    The fact they are 1/4 inch shorter actually makes them play 1/4 degree FLATTER than if they were the titleist length. It's a one to one relationship. If you make a club 1/2 inch longer, it plays 1/2 degree more upright, even though the actual reading on a machine doesn't change. If you make it a 1/2 inch shorter it plays 1/2 degree flatter.



    The 7 iron example you gave is actually PLAYING 1.75 degrees flatter than the Titleist Because it is shorter. It will read 1.5 degrees flatter on the machine, but it will play 1.75 degrees flatter.




    Thanks! I will give this a try, but I can tell on the face of the club after each shot that they are more out towards the toe. Not really sure if I want to have them bent or just scrap the irons and go back to Titleist at this point. There are not really any good club fitters in my area that I would trust.
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]Taylormade 2016 M2 Diamana D+ 70
    Taylormade 2016 M1 3 wood Diamana S+ Limited 70
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Titleist 718AP2 4-PW DG AMT Tour White
    Vokey SM6 50, 54, 58
    Odyssey O-Works #7
    Snell MTB-Black[/font]
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,483 ✭✭
    Take the iron thats normally your favorite (maybe the #8?).



    Do the ball marker test, and if the label say LESS than 2.0* up, have this single club adjusted and test it again.



    Lie angles is hardly ever what specs say they are, even on custom orders, and since TM seems to measure play lenght with actual lie angle, and Titleist uses a fix lie of 60*, the actual play lenght difference vary within the set, so the slope for lie might not be the same



  • Whit1969Whit1969 Members Posts: 962 ✭✭
    Here is my seven iron after marking red lines on the ball to see where impact area is. Feel free to chime in with thoughts or suggestions or what you would recommend.



    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]Taylormade 2016 M2 Diamana D+ 70
    Taylormade 2016 M1 3 wood Diamana S+ Limited 70
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Titleist 718AP2 4-PW DG AMT Tour White
    Vokey SM6 50, 54, 58
    Odyssey O-Works #7
    Snell MTB-Black[/font]
  • 5hort5tuff5hort5tuff Members Posts: 3,288 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #9
    The lie angle looks okay. I believe the lines would be more diagonal if they were off. You may just need to step slightly closer to the ball to adjust to the new length...
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  • Whit1969Whit1969 Members Posts: 962 ✭✭
    81PING wrote:


    The lie angle looks okay. I believe the lines would be more diagonal if they were off. You may just need to step slightly closer to the ball to adjust to the new length...




    Thanks
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]Taylormade 2016 M2 Diamana D+ 70
    Taylormade 2016 M1 3 wood Diamana S+ Limited 70
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Titleist 718AP2 4-PW DG AMT Tour White
    Vokey SM6 50, 54, 58
    Odyssey O-Works #7
    Snell MTB-Black[/font]
  • Whit1969Whit1969 Members Posts: 962 ✭✭
    Bump, looking for any more recommendations or suggestions.
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]Taylormade 2016 M2 Diamana D+ 70
    Taylormade 2016 M1 3 wood Diamana S+ Limited 70
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Titleist 718AP2 4-PW DG AMT Tour White
    Vokey SM6 50, 54, 58
    Odyssey O-Works #7
    Snell MTB-Black[/font]
  • mcs4mcs4 South FloridaMembers Posts: 648 ✭✭
    Have you compared the Mizunos side-by-side with others to see if they actually shorter? There is a school of thought that suggests that they play basically they same length as Titlest standard, it's just that Mizuno measures before putting the grip on versus after. I've owned a fair amount of Mizuno clubs over the past two years and they have all been identical in length to the equivalent clubs I've measured them against (including my set of Titleist 716 CBs), to my eye.
    Cobra King F7 (Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60, stiff)
    Cobra AMP 4w (Comp CZ)
    Mizuno MP-H4 3 iron (Aldila Tour Green 85)
    Mizuno MP-H4 4 iron (Steelfiber 95)
    Mizuno MP-25 5-PW (Steelfiber 110)
    Ping i E1, 50 deg. (Recoil 110)
    Nike Engage 56 deg. (Recoil 95)
    Nike Engage 59 deg. (Recoil 95)
  • Whit1969Whit1969 Members Posts: 962 ✭✭
    mcs4 wrote:


    Have you compared the Mizunos side-by-side with others to see if they actually shorter? There is a school of thought that suggests that they play basically they same length as Titlest standard, it's just that Mizuno measures before putting the grip on versus after. I've owned a fair amount of Mizuno clubs over the past two years and they have all been identical in length to the equivalent clubs I've measured them against (including my set of Titleist 716 CBs), to my eye.




    That would make sense. I will measure them tonight with the grips on.
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]Taylormade 2016 M2 Diamana D+ 70
    Taylormade 2016 M1 3 wood Diamana S+ Limited 70
    Titleist 915H 2 Hybrid Diamana S+ 70
    Titleist 718AP2 4-PW DG AMT Tour White
    Vokey SM6 50, 54, 58
    Odyssey O-Works #7
    Snell MTB-Black[/font]
  • mcs4mcs4 South FloridaMembers Posts: 648 ✭✭
    Also, for what it's worth, I took my last set of Mizuno gamers to a tech and had the the lies adjusted to Titleist standard, and while they ever so slightly suited my eye better at address afterward I did not notice any particular improvement in performance. Before doing that I occasionally switched back and forth between the Titleist CBs and Mizunos, and generally it seemed that I would adjust to the small difference in stock lie angles within a fairly short time.
    Cobra King F7 (Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60, stiff)
    Cobra AMP 4w (Comp CZ)
    Mizuno MP-H4 3 iron (Aldila Tour Green 85)
    Mizuno MP-H4 4 iron (Steelfiber 95)
    Mizuno MP-25 5-PW (Steelfiber 110)
    Ping i E1, 50 deg. (Recoil 110)
    Nike Engage 56 deg. (Recoil 95)
    Nike Engage 59 deg. (Recoil 95)
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