DECADE by BirdieFire

[Peter_b]

Westendorf Kitzbüheler Alpen Tirol (course can be only be measured with Geomeasure in Apple maps, too old pictures in Google course does not exist.) . I will make it short. Driving area 35-45 yards wide. Most horrible hazards right beside those 35-45 yards: Disney dark forest, cant see feet first step in, 99% of ball loss if more than two yards in the woods. That’s all no rough or anything, just 45 yards and then the void. Course would play easier if forest would be water honestly as you would not loose the yardage.

Playing it aggressively the penalties outweigh the benefits of short shots into the green by far. Playing it defensively will make the course very long. Not sure if stay in full defensive mode or try to reduce my Driver dispersion to be able to drive most holes. I am hitting the drives quite straight 265y is a very good drive. Will get to a Trackman to see dispersion.

 

http://www.flyingsco...?tmpl=component

http://www.flyingsco...?tmpl=component

 

Hole 3 at 260 yrds, 40 yards, prepare to loose ball if you hit it 2 yards right or left of that 40y. Is this hole drivable? I would say no. Before the bunkers 5W Distance its 50 yards. Still not fun but less dangerous.

 

 

 

 

[QMany]

The recent DECADE by BirdieFire updates are awesome!

 

After inputting shots on aerial maps of courses, the advanced Strokes Gained stats hole-by-hole and shot-by-shot are amazing.

 

(NOT MY ROUND :censored2: )

[rochestergolfer36]

The recent DECADE by BirdieFire updates are awesome!

 

After inputting shots on aerial maps of courses, the advanced Strokes Gained stats hole-by-hole and shot-by-shot are amazing.

 

(NOT MY ROUND :censored2: )

 

I’ve been waiting to see what would change since I saw they announced some updates coming. I recently decided I need to do this to help take next step in tournament golf. But plan to wait until spring since MN winters cutoff golf for 5 months.

[SAGolfer61]

Test

[SAGolfer61]

Anybody heard of Golf Stats Coach, www.golfstatscoach.com Thoughts?

[mhawk709]

Hello folks,

 

For those that use Decade lite, does Scott mention somewhere what the strategy is for approach shots? I've watched the videos but don't quite understand if i should be using middle yardage, back yardage minus x, front yardage minus x, or which side of green to err to.

[AussieGuy]

> @mhawk709 said:

> Hello folks,

>

> For those that use Decade lite, does Scott mention somewhere what the strategy is for approach shots? I've watched the videos but don't quite understand if i should be using middle yardage, back yardage minus x, front yardage minus x, or which side of green to err to.

 

I have the lite. Id love to debate the pros and cons. For me I'm not really using it at all after watching the videos. Trying to capture all that data on such a crappy GUI or just as bad on paper, totally takes me out of the game. I feel like I'm spending more mental energy keeping stats than playing. I want to like it, I love the thought of it but the execution is a massive PITA. Won't be renewing.

 

But back to your questions, I believe he is saying aim for the middle of the green basically all the time. The pros miss on a front pin is often short, he is saying that they should be basically aiming their carry to finish at the pin and then if it rolls by so be it rather than trying to carry to front edge.

[QMany]

Is the strategy for DECADE Lite different than the full-fledged DECADE? If not, middle of the green basically all the time isn't accurate. It depends on your distance, and thus "baseline," plus or minus modifiers.

[wagsgt]

> @AussieGuy said:

> > @mhawk709 said:

> > Hello folks,

> >

> > For those that use Decade lite, does Scott mention somewhere what the strategy is for approach shots? I've watched the videos but don't quite understand if i should be using middle yardage, back yardage minus x, front yardage minus x, or which side of green to err to.

>

> I have the lite. Id love to debate the pros and cons. For me I'm not really using it at all after watching the videos. Trying to capture all that data on such a **** GUI or just as bad on paper, totally takes me out of the game. I feel like I'm spending more mental energy keeping stats than playing. I want to like it, I love the thought of it but the execution is a massive PITA. Won't be renewing.

>

> But back to your questions, I believe he is saying aim for the middle of the green basically all the time. The pros miss on a front pin is often short, he is saying that they should be basically aiming their carry to finish at the pin and then if it rolls by so be it rather than trying to carry to front edge.

 

How much data are you writing down? I don't find on course recording long at all. I just write approach yardage and putt distances. I always input the round same day or next day and can remember everything else. i.e. putt was short/long, miss fw l/r,etc

[QMany]

I have a pretty good memory and just recall my approach yardages. If you're playing a tournament, I'll usually write them on my pin sheet as I'm "doing the math" anyway. I don't pace off or write down putt lengths, just guess later.

[wagsgt]

> @QMany said:

> I have a pretty good memory and just recall my approach yardages. If you're playing a tournament, I'll usually write them on my pin sheet as I'm "doing the math" anyway. I don't pace off or write down putt lengths, just guess later.

Yea I can eyeball putt distances. I write more on courses I’m not familiar with since I can’t picture #12 in my head as good as my home course. Did you see the yardage book update coming in fall they posted to IG

 

[Ty_Webb]

> @QMany said:

> Is the strategy for DECADE Lite different than the full-fledged DECADE? If not, middle of the green basically all the time isn't accurate. It depends on your distance, and thus "baseline," plus or minus modifiers.

 

He basically doesn't get into it in the Lite version. It covers things like not shooting at a front pin. There's only 3 or 4 videos in each category and that's it. There's some stuff in there about how to practice. Putting, drivers, etc. The driver one is kind of a "find two targets on the range that are 65 yards apart and try to hit it between them. There's nothing about the margin of error from different distances thing. I've managed to piece some of that together from seeing one of his credit card sized cards and the modifiers from a couple of videos I think either on youtube or he accidentally opened up a few more videos when he updated the app and then they were gone. He has some good stuff on mental game, including a great one about Tiger's pre-shot routine from the 2000 US Open.

 

I'm not sure that the targeting stuff is all that helpful though. It's based on high level collegiate golfers/pros I think, so is probably too aggressive for me. What I really need to do is figure out what my shot circles are and how aggressive I can be with my targets. My typical shot pattern is pretty good, but with a 1 in 10 shot that goes another 10-15 yards right. Even with a wedge. So if I use 4 as a baseline distance from trouble, even with the +3 modifier for water, I'm going to get myself in trouble sometimes. Especially if it's to the right, but if the water is left of the hole then I probably can go just about to where he suggests.

[two_wood13]

@AussieGuy

Agree w/ you on the mental energy part. I actually found that I was playing to the stats and not playing golf, e.g. I'd miss a couple of greens in a row and say "oh ****, now my GIR average is going to go down". I put the sheet away and just do it from memory now, a la @QMany 's comment, and it's helped.

 

I upgraded from Lite to whatever the full version is called and I like the additional stats that are available. A good example is that my SG putting is in line with my scoring average, but the detailed stats allow me to see that inside 15ft I'm actually better than my stroke average would suggest and I'm worse on putts outside of that range. So the obvious answer is to practice longer putts more (now just need to find the time!). Similarly, I've been practicing wedges a lot b/c my GIR from 75-100yds looks weak optically. The more detailed Decade stats show that it's actually within my scoring range and it's my GIR from 101-150 is actually worse than my scoring range, so I'll be practicing more w/ PW than w/ LW for a few weeks.

 

Overall, I think it's a really detailed stats tracker that is expensive and requires some work and it's expensive. At minimum, I'll use it through the remainder of the year as I'm interested to see the new functionality he's rolling out. If there's a competing product that has the same stats detail and is cheaper, will definitely consider for next year as I think the content has diminishing returns after the initial wave.

 

 

[AussieGuy]

> @wagsgt said:

> > @AussieGuy said:

> > > @mhawk709 said:

> > > Hello folks,

> > >

> > > For those that use Decade lite, does Scott mention somewhere what the strategy is for approach shots? I've watched the videos but don't quite understand if i should be using middle yardage, back yardage minus x, front yardage minus x, or which side of green to err to.

> >

> > I have the lite. Id love to debate the pros and cons. For me I'm not really using it at all after watching the videos. Trying to capture all that data on such a **** GUI or just as bad on paper, totally takes me out of the game. I feel like I'm spending more mental energy keeping stats than playing. I want to like it, I love the thought of it but the execution is a massive PITA. Won't be renewing.

> >

> > But back to your questions, I believe he is saying aim for the middle of the green basically all the time. The pros miss on a front pin is often short, he is saying that they should be basically aiming their carry to finish at the pin and then if it rolls by so be it rather than trying to carry to front edge.

>

> How much data are you writing down? I don't find on course recording long at all. I just write approach yardage and putt distances. I always input the round same day or next day and can remember everything else. i.e. putt was short/long, miss fw l/r,etc

 

Ive been printing off the sheet and writing down every shot. Pacing putts, keeping a mental game scorecard, distances for every shot etc... It just feels I'm playing golf stats not golf.

I've gone back to using Game golf live. It's simple just tag and go, maybe I'll keep a putting sheet and just eyeball and estimate putt distances? If I keep a putting sheet and use the data from Game golf that may be an easier way to collect the data. I'm VERY intrigued by golf stats coach when it launches and will be checking it out. The screenshots show the GUI which importantly looks easy to use.

[wagsgt]

> @AussieGuy said:

> > @wagsgt said:

> > > @AussieGuy said:

> > > > @mhawk709 said:

> > > > Hello folks,

> > > >

> > > > For those that use Decade lite, does Scott mention somewhere what the strategy is for approach shots? I've watched the videos but don't quite understand if i should be using middle yardage, back yardage minus x, front yardage minus x, or which side of green to err to.

> > >

> > > I have the lite. Id love to debate the pros and cons. For me I'm not really using it at all after watching the videos. Trying to capture all that data on such a **** GUI or just as bad on paper, totally takes me out of the game. I feel like I'm spending more mental energy keeping stats than playing. I want to like it, I love the thought of it but the execution is a massive PITA. Won't be renewing.

> > >

> > > But back to your questions, I believe he is saying aim for the middle of the green basically all the time. The pros miss on a front pin is often short, he is saying that they should be basically aiming their carry to finish at the pin and then if it rolls by so be it rather than trying to carry to front edge.

> >

> > How much data are you writing down? I don't find on course recording long at all. I just write approach yardage and putt distances. I always input the round same day or next day and can remember everything else. i.e. putt was short/long, miss fw l/r,etc

>

> Ive been printing off the sheet and writing down every shot. Pacing putts, keeping a mental game scorecard, distances for every shot etc... It just feels I'm playing golf stats not golf.

> I've gone back to using Game golf live. It's simple just tag and go, maybe I'll keep a putting sheet and just eyeball and estimate putt distances? If I keep a putting sheet and use the data from Game golf that may be an easier way to collect the data. I'm VERY intrigued by golf stats coach when it launches and will be checking it out. The screenshots show the GUI which importantly looks easy to use.

I would see how little you can record and then remember. I can remember the entire round and if hit fw/rough and yardages but just writing approach shot yardage let’s me really zip through it later . For putting mark your ball and pace off to flag while examining your line and getting a feel for the putt. I bet your guess would be within 2 feet. I don’t use mental score so I don’t write that.

I find it’s the opposite. It keeps me focused while everyone else is checking IG

 

[mhawk709]

Yea, I'm debating on renewing the Lite version myself. The app is a little cumbersome to use while playing, but I haven't tried the pin sheets yet. And there's not a ton of information on target for approach shots. However, it seems evident that I need to go get on a trackman and hit 20-30 balls with a variety of clubs to get a better idea of what my personal dispersion is based on my target.

[Deepy]

> @Ty_Webb said:

>

> I'm not sure that the targeting stuff is all that helpful though. It's based on high level collegiate golfers/pros I think, so is probably too aggressive for me. What I really need to do is figure out what my shot circles are and how aggressive I can be with my targets. My typical shot pattern is pretty good, but with a 1 in 10 shot that goes another 10-15 yards right. Even with a wedge. So if I use 4 as a baseline distance from trouble, even with the +3 modifier for water, I'm going to get myself in trouble sometimes. Especially if it's to the right, but if the water is left of the hole then I probably can go just about to where he suggests.

 

To put these dispersion numbers into perspective (numbers from "Every shot counts" by Mark Broadie):

The average tour golfer hits about 50% of his approach shots inside 5% of the distance of the shot itself. So from 100y he hits about 50% of his shots inside 5y. The other 50% will be further away. Typically they will be further right or further left, not shorter and especially not longer! That's why he emphasizes to aim away from trouble especially sideways (on approach shots).

So a 1 in 10 big miss will happen but you dont know when it will happen. If you miss it into a water hazard thats bad luck but it doesnt mean you should be aiming 15y left of every water hazard. You would be aiming towards a too conservative target 90% of the time to prevent that 10% miss going into the water.

If you are missing more shots to the right of your target than to the left, you are not aiming properly (target = center of your shot pattern).

 

Figuring out how your personal dispersion looks like is a very important aspect (which I'm missing input on from the DECADE App/Videos btw.). So here are my 2 cents on this topic: The trackman (and I believe other software as well) shows a sideways dispersion. I'd like to highlite two important values: The average value and the +/- value (see pictures below).

The **average value** is an indicator that indicates if you have a tendency to miss your target one way. Provided you are aiming at the same target that the LM recognizes as "its" target line this value shows where on average your ball lands w.r.t. the target line. So in my example picture: My 7i is typically 3.3m right of the target, my 3i is more or less dead on (0.6m left of) target. In my experience this value changes on a daily basis (to some extend). E.g. some days your balls will draw a bit more than other days. Work with it, don't fight it.

The imho more important number is the **+/- value**. This is a measurement of your dispersion. In mathematical terms it's the standard deviation (at least the trackman uses the standard deviation) of your shot pattern. In my example picture I got 8.3m dispersion with my 3i and 4.4m with my 7i.*

**Long story short and to skip the math: I use 1.5 times this +/- value for approach shots** (= aim 1.5 times this value away from the edge of the green) and **2 times this value for tee shots** (=aim 2 times this value away from touble). On approach shots it's fine to not hit every green. On tee shots you really have to avoid penalty strokes with your shots (thick bushes/rough where you can loose your ball, water, O.B.).

 

*Dont get confused by the '4.4R', I think trackman associates positive values with "right=R" and negative values with "left=L". Since the standard deviation is always positive, it is displayed as '4.4R'. However theres no real meaning for "right" in this context.

[Shades234]

Downloaded and signed up for Elite last week. Just entered my 5th round this morning. Been keeping track of club off the tee, all distances of approach shots (that aren't chips/pitches), guesstimate of putt length, and mental score over actual score for each hole. Fairly easy to keep track. Entering all the data plus moving the ball positions around in the app is cumbersome though. Will try to do my next data entry on the computer to see if that's easier. Data entry takes about 30 minutes for me but will probably get quicker as I get more accustomed to it.

 

I'm not very far into the actual "program," but have started to implement the bigger themes of aiming for the fat side of the green and lowering expectations on putts outside of 5-6' or so. Resulted in a fairly good putting day for me yesterday in my US Am Qualifier even though I missed some shorties.

 

I do have a question about choosing round type. When do you guys pick the qualifying vs tournament option? Is qualifying only for team golfers who are playing to earn a spot on their starting roster? Or does it apply to local/sectional qualifying for events? US Am Qualifying seems like a "tournament" round to me. Although I guess it's not actually that important of a distinction.

 

I haven't done any work to determine my shot pattern like you guys have been discussing, but may seek out a Trackman eventually.

[Ty_Webb]

> @Shades234 said:

> Downloaded and signed up for Elite last week. Just entered my 5th round this morning. Been keeping track of club off the tee, all distances of approach shots (that aren't chips/pitches), guesstimate of putt length, and mental score over actual score for each hole. Fairly easy to keep track. Entering all the data plus moving the ball positions around in the app is cumbersome though. Will try to do my next data entry on the computer to see if that's easier. Data entry takes about 30 minutes for me but will probably get quicker as I get more accustomed to it.

>

> I'm not very far into the actual "program," but have started to implement the bigger themes of aiming for the fat side of the green and lowering expectations on putts outside of 5-6' or so. Resulted in a fairly good putting day for me yesterday in my US Am Qualifier even though I missed some shorties.

>

> I do have a question about choosing round type. When do you guys pick the qualifying vs tournament option? Is qualifying only for team golfers who are playing to earn a spot on their starting roster? Or does it apply to local/sectional qualifying for events? US Am Qualifying seems like a "tournament" round to me. Although I guess it's not actually that important of a distinction.

>

> I haven't done any work to determine my shot pattern like you guys have been discussing, but may seek out a Trackman eventually.

 

Re tournament vs qualifier I think at some point he talks about a qualifier being almost more important than a tournament. I think he’s talking about one round tournaments and how they’re not really anything to worry about. Someone asked him about qualifiers and he said that was absolutely not the case for a qualifier. They’re the most important thing. I’m pretty sure he means the sectionals and so on not team qualifying rounds for college kids.

[GolfTurkey]

I'm also finding the data entry for DECADE to be a PITA. If it had an import from Garmin golf devices it would make it soo much easier.

[wagsgt]

Data Entry gets faster..

 

Personally I don't even use Pin sheet at my home course. I do it the next morning on laptop with a mouse. I still can remember every shot and distance, Takes under 10 minutes if using mouse, little bit longer on the iPad

[QMany]

I was about to say the same thing. It goes really fast once on a PC once you get used to it. Start the with the pin position, then position putts, then pull back to position your approach, save, next.

[GolfTurkey]

One of the major hindrances for me is that the distances for my home course (in Australia) come up with the correct numbers but they are in yards instead of meters so I have to correct the distances on every hole. I'll contact their support...

[Deepy]

> @GolfTurkey said:

> One of the major hindrances for me is that the distances for my home course (in Australia) come up with the correct numbers but they are in yards instead of meters so I have to correct the distances on every hole. I'll contact their support...

 

Same here! I wrote a mail to the support about this issue a few months ago. Hopefully this gets fixed soon.

[wagsgt]

> @GolfTurkey said:

> One of the major hindrances for me is that the distances for my home course (in Australia) come up with the correct numbers but they are in yards instead of meters so I have to correct the distances on every hole. I'll contact their support...

Can you change under profile? I see option to change yards or meters?

 

[GolfTurkey]

> @wagsgt said:

> > @GolfTurkey said:

> > One of the major hindrances for me is that the distances for my home course (in Australia) come up with the correct numbers but they are in yards instead of meters so I have to correct the distances on every hole. I'll contact their support...

> Can you change under profile? I see option to change yards or meters?

>

 

Yep, approach shots in meters and putts in feet. It's the actual course that's reporting the incorrect length (total and per hole) when I select it.

 

[Deepy]

When you search a course, the length is displayed "correctly", meaning the total length and the hole length show the right numbers. My home course is 6100m long, the course selection shows 6100 (but DECADE thinks its yards).

As soon as you try to enter shots and have chosen metric system in your profile the hole length are converted from the "correct" numbers as if they were in yards into meters, so every hole is about 9% short.

[Shades234]

> @Ty_Webb said:

> > @Shades234 said:

> > Downloaded and signed up for Elite last week. Just entered my 5th round this morning. Been keeping track of club off the tee, all distances of approach shots (that aren't chips/pitches), guesstimate of putt length, and mental score over actual score for each hole. Fairly easy to keep track. Entering all the data plus moving the ball positions around in the app is cumbersome though. Will try to do my next data entry on the computer to see if that's easier. Data entry takes about 30 minutes for me but will probably get quicker as I get more accustomed to it.

> >

> > I'm not very far into the actual "program," but have started to implement the bigger themes of aiming for the fat side of the green and lowering expectations on putts outside of 5-6' or so. Resulted in a fairly good putting day for me yesterday in my US Am Qualifier even though I missed some shorties.

> >

> > I do have a question about choosing round type. When do you guys pick the qualifying vs tournament option? Is qualifying only for team golfers who are playing to earn a spot on their starting roster? Or does it apply to local/sectional qualifying for events? US Am Qualifying seems like a "tournament" round to me. Although I guess it's not actually that important of a distinction.

> >

> > I haven't done any work to determine my shot pattern like you guys have been discussing, but may seek out a Trackman eventually.

>

> Re tournament vs qualifier I think at some point he talks about a qualifier being almost more important than a tournament. I think he’s talking about one round tournaments and how they’re not really anything to worry about. Someone asked him about qualifiers and he said that was absolutely not the case for a qualifier. They’re the most important thing. I’m pretty sure he means the sectionals and so on not team qualifying rounds for college kids.

 

Got it. Maybe I'll come across this as I get further into the materials. Seems maybe they should be separated since it's easy to get into a mindset of having to go low to make it through in a 1 or 2 round qualifier vs a 4 (or more) round tournament.

[Shades234]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but can someone help me with decision making on a par 5? I'm very new to this, so I'm trying to learn how to apply DECADE to some more difficult situations that I face. The hole is #3 at Rancho Santa Fe Farms Golf Club. What do you think DECADE would recommend?

 

The shot in question is the approach shot from the fairway. If I hypothetically have 220-240 yards in from the fairway, can I even attack this green? There is water right. There are slopes left of the green. Depending on conditions (dry/wet), a ball missing left of the green could pick up enough steam to roll all the way across the green and into the hazard. However, sometimes the ball will land and end up near the middle or right half. The green slopes back to front and left to right with 3 tiers. The front tier is elevated, trough in the middle, and elevated in the back. There is typically wind hurting and off the left. Usually enough for a 1 modifier IMO. Reason I ask is that I've probably been in the situation where I think going for the green is a decent call ~10 times and I think I've probably put it in the water 6 of those times, hit it way left 2 of those times and the other 2 I've put it somewhere on the surface. The lie in the fairway is usually ball above your feet 4-8" for a right handed player.

 

Main question I would like some help with is whether or not to go for this green ever from that range. And if not, what is the layup that DECADE would recommend to various pin positions (front,middle,back) since the green is so long and skinny.

 

I'm leaning toward never trying to go for this, but I'm not sure if it's because my judgement has been clouded by failure. LOL I've always layed up behind the two fairway bunkers and am now wondering if I should be trying to hit it further up the hole for back hole locations. Honestly a really fun hole that I lose a lot of balls on. I hate it. LOL

 

The coords are: 32°59'18.2"N 117°10'29.8"W

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/32%C2%B059'18.2%22N+117%C2%B010'29.8%22W/@32.9883762,-117.1760294,479m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x80dc08272032918d:0x3bcb67a63b3899c9!2sThe+Farms+Golf+Club!8m2!3d32.988311!4d-117.177722!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d32.9883744!4d-117.1749375

 

Thanks!!

[Ty_Webb]

Good question Shades. I’m not sure, but I’m going to piggy back off it since I have a very similar looking hole to play in a tournament next week. Hole is here: https://goo.gl/maps/yYjtxX1YUs6NRnBn7

 

My inclination is to lay up. Based on what I read, missing the green left is no picnic because it slopes down to the water from there. I don’t think I can handle hitting an 8 iron to do that though. I will base it on how I’m feeling on the day, but curious what’s the “right” tactic.