Putting in 2019 - Flagstick in or out?

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  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Dave D wrote:

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    larrybud wrote:


    While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.



    That said, I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us, the closest was maybe 30 feet. I needed the pin tended, and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty. It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns, but overall mattered zero.



    I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in. It will happen... That will be fun...




    Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.




    funny you say this, I was playing a foursomes match the other day, we were 2 up through 10, and on 11 one of the opponents had a par putt on a shot hole, putting from the fringe he left the flag in, now this putt had some heat on it and was easily going 6 foot by, hits the flag dead centre but pops back towards him. He can't believe it, starts damning his bad luck, blaming the flagstick etc. "it hit the flag dead centre" he proclaims. My partner then rolls our birdie putt from the fringe perfect weight that it kissed the centre of the flag as it dropped in. "how is that fair" he exclaimed. Clearly oblivious to the fact he was lucky they had a 1 inch bogey putt rather than 6 foot, from then on his head was gone and we thrashed them



    I fear people may actually start putting worse if they just try and hit the flag firmly




    Would have definitely hit the back lip and kept going. Anything with enough speed to bounce off flag out of hole will not stay in a hole without a flag. I think literally only time a flag can hurt you is if it's crooked or you hit it on fly with approach.
    How to be in better shape for golf?
    Become a better athlete.
    Don't worry about golf specific.
    Compound lifts w/ linear progress
    Don't forget the mobility work.
    More results, more functional

    Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
    17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
    8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
    Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
    Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700
  • larrybudlarrybud Members Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    larrybud wrote:
    PingEye2 wrote:


    Because I'm not their personal caddy, and I don't really want other people touching my stuff. I live by the same rules in golf as in life, don't touch another man's balls or shaft. Works well in all situations.




    Lol. Seriously, if walking off a green and I get there first I typically grab a wedge if it’s laying there, especially if I have one laying there, too. Seems like common courtesy to me... which I do realize is disappearing quickly.




    I'm not doing that 10 times a round. Seems that some guys who leave their clubs on the stick never pick up the stick.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,283 ClubWRX
    pinhigh27 wrote:

    Dave D wrote:

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    larrybud wrote:


    While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.



    That said, I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us, the closest was maybe 30 feet. I needed the pin tended, and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty. It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns, but overall mattered zero.



    I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in. It will happen... That will be fun...




    Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.




    funny you say this, I was playing a foursomes match the other day, we were 2 up through 10, and on 11 one of the opponents had a par putt on a shot hole, putting from the fringe he left the flag in, now this putt had some heat on it and was easily going 6 foot by, hits the flag dead centre but pops back towards him. He can't believe it, starts damning his bad luck, blaming the flagstick etc. "it hit the flag dead centre" he proclaims. My partner then rolls our birdie putt from the fringe perfect weight that it kissed the centre of the flag as it dropped in. "how is that fair" he exclaimed. Clearly oblivious to the fact he was lucky they had a 1 inch bogey putt rather than 6 foot, from then on his head was gone and we thrashed them



    I fear people may actually start putting worse if they just try and hit the flag firmly




    Would have definitely hit the back lip and kept going. Anything with enough speed to bounce off flag out of hole will not stay in a hole without a flag. I think literally only time a flag can hurt you is if it's crooked or you hit it on fly with approach.




    More unsupported absolutes.
  • Mikey5eMikey5e Members Posts: 932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's a scenario:

    Joe golfer strokes the ball a bit firmer from 12 ft to take the break out of the line, it hits the stick and bounces off. Joe counts it as holed and says 'it would have gone in if it weren't for the flag stick', and then cards his par.
  • PingEye2PingEye2 Members Posts: 835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pinhigh27 wrote:
    Dave D wrote:

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    larrybud wrote:


    While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.



    That said, I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us, the closest was maybe 30 feet. I needed the pin tended, and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty. It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns, but overall mattered zero.



    I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in. It will happen... That will be fun...




    Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.




    funny you say this, I was playing a foursomes match the other day, we were 2 up through 10, and on 11 one of the opponents had a par putt on a shot hole, putting from the fringe he left the flag in, now this putt had some heat on it and was easily going 6 foot by, hits the flag dead centre but pops back towards him. He can't believe it, starts damning his bad luck, blaming the flagstick etc. "it hit the flag dead centre" he proclaims. My partner then rolls our birdie putt from the fringe perfect weight that it kissed the centre of the flag as it dropped in. "how is that fair" he exclaimed. Clearly oblivious to the fact he was lucky they had a 1 inch bogey putt rather than 6 foot, from then on his head was gone and we thrashed them



    I fear people may actually start putting worse if they just try and hit the flag firmly




    Would have definitely hit the back lip and kept going. Anything with enough speed to bounce off flag out of hole will not stay in a hole without a flag. I think literally only time a flag can hurt you is if it's crooked or you hit it on fly with approach.




    This may be true. This is what I was asking in the OP. I think it will interesting to see what happens when they get to Hawaii. I’ll probably do whatever Bryson does as I am sure he will have all done the statical analysis.
  • PingEye2PingEye2 Members Posts: 835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mikey5e wrote:
    Here's a scenario:

    Joe golfer strokes the ball a bit firmer from 12 ft to take the break out of the line, it hits the stick and bounces off. Joe counts it as holed and says 'it would have gone in if it weren't for the flag stick', and then cards his par.




    Well, if he isn’t playing for anything who cares. But he won’t be doing that if we are competing.
  • hybrid25hybrid25 michiganMembers Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    PingEye2 wrote:

    larrybud wrote:
    PingEye2 wrote:

    SNIPERBBB wrote:


    I’ll probably take it out anytime I bring a wedge to the green. I’m in the habit of laying my wedge across the stick so my dumba$$ doesn’t walk off without it.




    I hate when people lay clubs on the flagstick, almost never are they the first to finish the hole so you have to toss their clubs off it all day long.




    Why wouldn’t you just hand them to them rather than toss them off? Most everyone I play with will, at least a couple of times a round, pick up others clubs. Both to be polite and help assure none are left behind.




    Because I'm not their personal caddy, and I don't really want other people touching my stuff. I live by the same rules in golf as in life, don't touch another man's balls or shaft. Works well in all situations.




    Lol. Seriously, if walking off a green and I get there first I typically grab a wedge if it’s laying there, especially if I have one laying there, too. Seems like common courtesy to me... which I do realize is disappearing quickly.
    I can see both sides of the story, it is common courtesy to pick up the clubs and hand them 2 your partner, but it also is a pain in the rear as well. I always put my wedge by my putter cover which I never forget.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,620 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    pinhigh27 wrote:

    Dave D wrote:

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    larrybud wrote:


    While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.



    That said, I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us, the closest was maybe 30 feet. I needed the pin tended, and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty. It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns, but overall mattered zero.



    I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in. It will happen... That will be fun...




    Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.




    funny you say this, I was playing a foursomes match the other day, we were 2 up through 10, and on 11 one of the opponents had a par putt on a shot hole, putting from the fringe he left the flag in, now this putt had some heat on it and was easily going 6 foot by, hits the flag dead centre but pops back towards him. He can't believe it, starts damning his bad luck, blaming the flagstick etc. "it hit the flag dead centre" he proclaims. My partner then rolls our birdie putt from the fringe perfect weight that it kissed the centre of the flag as it dropped in. "how is that fair" he exclaimed. Clearly oblivious to the fact he was lucky they had a 1 inch bogey putt rather than 6 foot, from then on his head was gone and we thrashed them



    I fear people may actually start putting worse if they just try and hit the flag firmly




    Would have definitely hit the back lip and kept going. Anything with enough speed to bounce off flag out of hole will not stay in a hole without a flag. I think literally only time a flag can hurt you is if it's crooked or you hit it on fly with approach.




    Just don’t agree. I have my own putting green at home. Has a regulation fat style pin in the center hole for decoration I guess. I putt to it plenty and nearly every practice session one will bounce out off the pin. But plenty of balls traveling faster from pitches or chips rattle around and fall. A ball has to hit the back of the cup dead center to jump out. Or power lip. Other wise it will fall. But not if the pins in.
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  • PingEye2PingEye2 Members Posts: 835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pinhigh27 wrote:

    Dave D wrote:

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    larrybud wrote:


    While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.



    That said, I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us, the closest was maybe 30 feet. I needed the pin tended, and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty. It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns, but overall mattered zero.



    I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in. It will happen... That will be fun...




    Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.




    funny you say this, I was playing a foursomes match the other day, we were 2 up through 10, and on 11 one of the opponents had a par putt on a shot hole, putting from the fringe he left the flag in, now this putt had some heat on it and was easily going 6 foot by, hits the flag dead centre but pops back towards him. He can't believe it, starts damning his bad luck, blaming the flagstick etc. "it hit the flag dead centre" he proclaims. My partner then rolls our birdie putt from the fringe perfect weight that it kissed the centre of the flag as it dropped in. "how is that fair" he exclaimed. Clearly oblivious to the fact he was lucky they had a 1 inch bogey putt rather than 6 foot, from then on his head was gone and we thrashed them



    I fear people may actually start putting worse if they just try and hit the flag firmly




    Would have definitely hit the back lip and kept going. Anything with enough speed to bounce off flag out of hole will not stay in a hole without a flag. I think literally only time a flag can hurt you is if it's crooked or you hit it on fly with approach.




    Just don’t agree. I have my own putting green at home. Has a regulation fat style pin in the center hole for decoration I guess. I putt to it plenty and nearly every practice session one will bounce out off the pin. But plenty of balls traveling faster from pitches or chips rattle around and fall. A ball has to hit the back of the cup dead center to jump out. Or power lip. Other wise it will fall. But not if the pins in.




    This is not what Pelz says in his research. I’m not saying he is right, but passing on his opinion.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,283 ClubWRX
    edited Sep 3, 2018 #41
    LOL, replaying Hatton getting screwed by the flagstick!



    Yes, the odds were in his favor, but . . .
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,620 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 3, 2018 #42
    Ping eye-





    Big fan of Phil and Pelz mostly. But that one defies common sense. Most any flagstick where I’ve ever played will not let a ball drop all the way to the bottom of the cup with it in. How is it more likely to stay in with an obstruction like that in the hole ? We leave it in for chips ect down hill as a backstop. Not to help it go in.
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  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    Dave D wrote:

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    larrybud wrote:


    While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.



    That said, I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us, the closest was maybe 30 feet. I needed the pin tended, and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty. It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns, but overall mattered zero.



    I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in. It will happen... That will be fun...




    Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.




    funny you say this, I was playing a foursomes match the other day, we were 2 up through 10, and on 11 one of the opponents had a par putt on a shot hole, putting from the fringe he left the flag in, now this putt had some heat on it and was easily going 6 foot by, hits the flag dead centre but pops back towards him. He can't believe it, starts damning his bad luck, blaming the flagstick etc. "it hit the flag dead centre" he proclaims. My partner then rolls our birdie putt from the fringe perfect weight that it kissed the centre of the flag as it dropped in. "how is that fair" he exclaimed. Clearly oblivious to the fact he was lucky they had a 1 inch bogey putt rather than 6 foot, from then on his head was gone and we thrashed them



    I fear people may actually start putting worse if they just try and hit the flag firmly




    Would have definitely hit the back lip and kept going. Anything with enough speed to bounce off flag out of hole will not stay in a hole without a flag. I think literally only time a flag can hurt you is if it's crooked or you hit it on fly with approach.




    Just don’t agree. I have my own putting green at home. Has a regulation fat style pin in the center hole for decoration I guess. I putt to it plenty and nearly every practice session one will bounce out off the pin. But plenty of balls traveling faster from pitches or chips rattle around and fall. A ball has to hit the back of the cup dead center to jump out. Or power lip. Other wise it will fall. But not if the pins in.




    Do you understand the physics of what is going on. You're telling me it hitting the cup dead center is what you don't want? That's where it has the highest chance of going in. It is the largest diameter for it to slow down enough to stay in hole.
    How to be in better shape for golf?
    Become a better athlete.
    Don't worry about golf specific.
    Compound lifts w/ linear progress
    Don't forget the mobility work.
    More results, more functional

    Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
    17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
    8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
    Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
    Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,620 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 3, 2018 #44
    Please do give the physics lesson Mr wizard.





    Hit it 10 ft by dead center and it will hit the back and pop over or spit back out at you. If you hit it on the lip it will power off in the opposite direction. But there’s a chance of hitting it slightly off center and it staying in.



    Now add a flagstick there. It has almost zero shot at going in. If it hits the pin its coming out. Maybe won’t go by as far. But thats a poor lag putt strategy.



    I’m telling you that no good player who’s learned this game flag out is going to rewire his brain to putt flag in. Might as wel get used to putting your own pin back in. Because most arent going to do it for you.
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    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 , sound slot , tungsten sole weights 


  • McgeenoMcgeeno Members Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm gonna leave it in at every opportunity I can (That won't slow down play or disturb playing partners)



    I remember reading Pelz analysis when I was little in a golf book and my personal experience has show the flag helps a TON on helping balls stay in the hole.



    I like the visual aid of a straight vertical line too when eyeballing a long putt.



    Matter of fact, I was trying to get all in depth and decide if It would be poor etiquette to put the flag in on short downhill putts and leave it out for uphill etc. I'm working on figuring out how to make the rule help me the most haha.
  • 2putttom2putttom # 1 Oregon Duck fan Members Posts: 10,096 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    larrybud wrote:

    larrybud wrote:
    PingEye2 wrote:


    Because I'm not their personal caddy, and I don't really want other people touching my stuff. I live by the same rules in golf as in life, don't touch another man's balls or shaft. Works well in all situations.




    Lol. Seriously, if walking off a green and I get there first I typically grab a wedge if it’s laying there, especially if I have one laying there, too. Seems like common courtesy to me... which I do realize is disappearing quickly.




    I'm not doing that 10 times a round. Seems that some guys who leave their clubs on the stick never pick up the stick.
    What The **** Is Going On In MICHIGAN ?
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  • hybrid25hybrid25 michiganMembers Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    2putttom wrote:

    larrybud wrote:

    larrybud wrote:
    PingEye2 wrote:


    Because I'm not their personal caddy, and I don't really want other people touching my stuff. I live by the same rules in golf as in life, don't touch another man's balls or shaft. Works well in all situations.




    Lol. Seriously, if walking off a green and I get there first I typically grab a wedge if it’s laying there, especially if I have one laying there, too. Seems like common courtesy to me... which I do realize is disappearing quickly.




    I'm not doing that 10 times a round. Seems that some guys who leave their clubs on the stick never pick up the stick.
    What The **** Is Going On In MICHIGAN ?
    Very simple, the guy just doesn't want to grab the other guy's stick. Doesn't seem difficult to me.
  • LondonerLondoner Members Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?
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  • hybrid25hybrid25 michiganMembers Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Londoner wrote:


    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?
    I think you are over complicating the issue. What if, what if, what if...
  • LondonerLondoner Members Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    hybrid25 wrote:
    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball. A couple of questions. If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it? On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left? In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?
    I think you are over complicating the issue. What if, what if, what if...




    Its OK if you dont know.
    Mizuno mp h5. 4-W KBS tour stiff 2 iron modus 3 stiff.
    taylormade m2 Driver + hl 3 wood
    ping anser
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,620 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 3, 2018 #51
    hybrid25 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:


    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?
    I think you are over complicating the issue. What if, what if, what if...






    How so ? I think each of those questions are relative .



    I know a regular playing partner right now who is the “ speed demon “ player who prefers to give 5 footers vs finishing a hole etc . He will lobby till he’s blue in the face to have the pin in to “ save time “. I dread the argument already. But it’s unavoidable.
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  • PingEye2PingEye2 Members Posts: 835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 3, 2018 #52
    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?




    If you ask me to tend it then I am going to assume you wanted it removed after striking the putt. Otherwise, why tend it?



    If the question is can you have it tended and then decide, while the putt is rolling, what you want done then I don’t know the answer to that. I’d hope tending it means obligated to remove it. I don’t think you should be able to decide once you realize you’ve hit it way too hard to leave it in.
  • LondonerLondoner Members Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    PingEye2 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?




    If you ask me to tend it then I am going to assume you wanted it removed after striking the putt. Otherwise, why tend it?



    If the question is can you have it tended and then decide, while the putt is rolling, what you want done then I don’t know the answer to that. I’d hope tending it means obligated to remove it. I don’t think you should be able to decide once you realize you’ve hit it way too hard to leave it in.


    I agree on both points but I think it needs clarifying.
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  • PingEye2PingEye2 Members Posts: 835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Londoner wrote:
    PingEye2 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?




    If you ask me to tend it then I am going to assume you wanted it removed after striking the putt. Otherwise, why tend it?



    If the question is can you have it tended and then decide, while the putt is rolling, what you want done then I don’t know the answer to that. I’d hope tending it means obligated to remove it. I don’t think you should be able to decide once you realize you’ve hit it way too hard to leave it in.


    I agree on both points but I think it needs clarifying.




    I agree with you. I’m not sure they thought this one through. Why doesn’t that surprise me?
  • hybrid25hybrid25 michiganMembers Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Londoner wrote:

    PingEye2 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?




    If you ask me to tend it then I am going to assume you wanted it removed after striking the putt. Otherwise, why tend it?



    If the question is can you have it tended and then decide, while the putt is rolling, what you want done then I don⤙t know the answer to that. I⤙d hope tending it means obligated to remove it. I don⤙t think you should be able to decide once you realize you⤙ve hit it way too hard to leave it in.


    I agree on both points but I think it needs clarifying.
    oh, so it's you who doesn't understand it. Thank you for admitting it.
  • Mikey5eMikey5e Members Posts: 932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Londoner wrote:

    hybrid25 wrote:
    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball. A couple of questions. If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it? On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left? In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?
    I think you are over complicating the issue. What if, what if, what if...




    Its OK if you dont know.
    I think people are quite intelligent and we'll figure things out as needed. Our group often times putt with the flag stick in on the 1st putt but take it out on the 2nd putt. I don't think the situation should be overanalyzed, I think a lot of people look forward to the change.
  • LondonerLondoner Members Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    hybrid25 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:

    PingEye2 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?




    If you ask me to tend it then I am going to assume you wanted it removed after striking the putt. Otherwise, why tend it?



    If the question is can you have it tended and then decide, while the putt is rolling, what you want done then I don⤙t know the answer to that. I⤙d hope tending it means obligated to remove it. I don⤙t think you should be able to decide once you realize you⤙ve hit it way too hard to leave it in.


    I agree on both points but I think it needs clarifying.
    oh, so it's you who doesn't understand it. Thank you for admitting it.


    Oh dear, one of those.
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  • hybrid25hybrid25 michiganMembers Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Londoner wrote:

    hybrid25 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:

    PingEye2 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?




    If you ask me to tend it then I am going to assume you wanted it removed after striking the putt. Otherwise, why tend it?



    If the question is can you have it tended and then decide, while the putt is rolling, what you want done then I don⤙t know the answer to that. I⤙d hope tending it means obligated to remove it. I don⤙t think you should be able to decide once you realize you⤙ve hit it way too hard to leave it in.


    I agree on both points but I think it needs clarifying.
    oh, so it's you who doesn't understand it. Thank you for admitting it.


    Oh dear, one of those.


    Tee hee!
  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I admit to having skipped over most of the discussion. From what I've read, if a putt is going to go 3 feet or more past the hole, the flagstick will generally improve the outcome if you hit it. Not always, but over time you'll leave it closer, and make more. Less than 3 feet past the hole, its a wash, the times it will help you will about even out with the times it will keep a putt out. So for me, any time I have a putt that I might have trouble leaving close to the hole, I'll leave the flagstick in. And I'll ask my companions to put it back in for me if necessary. I think the impact on pace of play, for better or for worse, will be negligible.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,620 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 3, 2018 #60
    hybrid25 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:

    PingEye2 wrote:

    Londoner wrote:
    Definitely going to slow things, the flags going to be in and out like crazy in the wrong 4 ball.



    A couple of questions.



    If left, does the flag have to be free standing with no one touching it?



    On long putts, if you elect to have the flag tended, when do you have to elect it being removed or left?



    In the above, what if the person tending the flag leaves it in (or removes it) against your wishes?




    If you ask me to tend it then I am going to assume you wanted it removed after striking the putt. Otherwise, why tend it?



    If the question is can you have it tended and then decide, while the putt is rolling, what you want done then I don⤙t know the answer to that. I⤙d hope tending it means obligated to remove it. I don⤙t think you should be able to decide once you realize you⤙ve hit it way too hard to leave it in.


    I agree on both points but I think it needs clarifying.
    oh, so it's you who doesn't understand it. Thank you for admitting it.




    Still you sir.





    If you aren’t providing answers to the questions it’s still you too.
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  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 4,059 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Explanation for Rule Change for 2019 - Ball Played from Green Hits Unattended Flagstick in Hole



    Current Rule: Under Rule 17-3, if a player makes a stroke on the putting green and the ball then

    hits the unattended flagstick that was left in the hole, the player gets the general penalty.



    2019 Rule: Under Rule 13.2a(2):



     There will no longer be a penalty if a ball played from the putting green hits a flagstick

    left in the hole.

     Players will not be required to putt with the flagstick in the hole; rather, they will

    continue to have the choice to have it removed (which includes having someone attend

    the flagstick and remove it after the ball is played).



    Reasons for Change:



     Allowing a player to putt with the flagstick in the hole without fear of penalty should

    generally help speed up play:



    o For example, if a putt is long enough that the player cannot easily see the hole

    unless the flagstick is left in, the player currently needs to wait for another person to

    attend the flagstick even if it is the player’s turn to play or (in stroke play) if the

    player is ready to play and it would save time to go ahead and do so.

    o This change could also speed up play for short tap-ins, as the player could simply

    putt the ball into the hole without first removing and then replacing the flagstick.



     When the players do not have caddies, the current Rule can result in considerable delay, such as:



    o When the opponent (or the other player in stroke play) is raking a greenside bunker

    and will be delayed for a minute or two before coming on to the green.

    o When other players in stroke play are delayed in coming on to the green for other

    reasons, such as a ball search, indecision about what club to use or shot to play, etc.

    o When all players in the group have long putts and so will need to walk back and

    forth to the hole to attend the flagstick for one another (which sometimes produces

    uncertainty about who will or should attend for someone else).



     In match play, a player without a caddie will now be able to choose to putt with the

    unattended flagstick in the hole rather than ask the opponent to attend the flagstick,

    reducing the potential for dispute that can arise when the opponent attends for the

    player (such as when the opponent fails to remove the flagstick and the ball hits it).



     On balance it is expected that there should be no advantage in being able to putt with

    the unattended flagstick in the hole:

    o In some cases, the ball may strike the flagstick and bounce out of the hole when it

    might otherwise have been holed, and

    o In other cases, the ball may hit the flagstick and finish in the hole when it might

    otherwise have missed.



    http://www.usga.org/...olf for 2019 (1).pdf
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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