Golf is Not a Team Sport

[Naptime]

On a different note, post Brexit will the UK players still be playing under the EU flag? Or do we go back to the previous RC paradigm. Then we'll have 3 competitions, US v UK, US v EU, and the President's Cup. :golfer:

[Lennon Mccartney]

Team sport or not the main reasons Americans don't care about the Ryder Cup is:

 

1. As kids growing up they probably never heard of it.

2. Nobody really wants to watch golf in late September, especially if it's happening on the other side of the planet.

3. And probably the biggest problem, even among golfers, nobody understands the scoring and whats at stake. And the media doesn't seem to care to create easy to folllow scoring charts.

Agreed...the American's simply do not care...that is not a brag or an excuse...that is just a fact....Take a look at the body language on Dustin, Brooks, Tiger, Phil and Bubba...they don't care...i am no fan of Bubba...but the guy is etched in history with two Green Jackets...Brooks has more majors in two years than Sergio, Stenson, Westwood, Ian Poulter, Luke Donald, Colin Montgomerie, Sam Torrance, Thomas Bjorn, Paul Mcginley combined...enough with the non sense...we get it...

[gvogel]

Scanning through this thread there's some reasonable points but also a lot of tripe too.

 

I guarantee though there would be none of the negativity had the US team won. They were big favourites and blew up big style. Phil, Bryson and Tiger - not a point between them. There are some class acts on the US team though. I like Rickie Fowler more every time I hear or read something about him. JT and Speith also went up in my estimation (I'm not ordinarily a Speith fan - he's good but a bit of a fairy when things don't go his way).

 

Pretty sure that the RC means a lot to those 12 guys and Furyk - they wouldn't have enjoyed getting their ar$es bared like that. They weren't just beaten, they were hammered.

 

Although for the majority of the time golf is an individuals sport, the RC is a team event. Get over it. It's just that in recent times the Europeans are more adept playing this format. Prior to the mid 80s the US team won it virtually every time.

 

Times have changed though and although the US do their best to make golf another American sport (most of the Majors and the richest Tour) it is not. Someone posted somewhere about having Majors in other countries and that's something I'd endorse. Keep the US and British Open (too much history to change those) keep the Masters too (even if its not a true Open - its too big and has a history now) but trash the USPGA and add a Major in another continent, Australasia / Far East would be my pick. I wouldn't even object if more Majors were added so that at least one could be played in each continent. It's not right that one country has 3/4s of the major events for what is a global sport and whilst the best players obviously play on the richest tour, that doesn't mean that the US owns the game.

 

There's already a rich crop of players coming through from the Far East where the game is massive and arguably that's where the future lies. Wait til the Chinese properly get their hands on it - the best players won't be American for long. Will you all stop watching when your boys aren't racking up the majors on your backyard courses?

 

Just as there would be negativity if the Euros lost. Winners get to drive the conversation, and that's fine. They've earned the right.

 

I'd welcome another major outside of the US, but it likely would not change the majority outcome. The Open Championship has been dominated by Americans for the last hundred 58 years, so they can obviously play over there. European countries are a distant second. Despite this past weekend, American golf is as young and as strong as ever.

 

Fixed it for you. The Open Championship might have been dominated by Americans in the 1920's (thank you Bobby Jones, Walter Hagen), but it was dominated by Peter Thompson in the 1950s and Henry Cotton and others before that. By the way, since Tom Watson won in 1984, non-Americans have won 19 out of the next 34 played. Hardly domination by Americans.

[Dave230]

I don't know who (or what a) Shipnuck is.

 

Alan Shipnuck is an American writer, who wrote this

 

https://www.golf.com/knockdown/2017/11/09/so-long-ryder-cup-euro-stars-fade-balance-power-shifting-fast

[Konklifer]

Scanning through this thread there's some reasonable points but also a lot of tripe too.

 

I guarantee though there would be none of the negativity had the US team won. They were big favourites and blew up big style. Phil, Bryson and Tiger - not a point between them. There are some class acts on the US team though. I like Rickie Fowler more every time I hear or read something about him. JT and Speith also went up in my estimation (I'm not ordinarily a Speith fan - he's good but a bit of a fairy when things don't go his way).

 

Pretty sure that the RC means a lot to those 12 guys and Furyk - they wouldn't have enjoyed getting their ar$es bared like that. They weren't just beaten, they were hammered.

 

Although for the majority of the time golf is an individuals sport, the RC is a team event. Get over it. It's just that in recent times the Europeans are more adept playing this format. Prior to the mid 80s the US team won it virtually every time.

 

Times have changed though and although the US do their best to make golf another American sport (most of the Majors and the richest Tour) it is not. Someone posted somewhere about having Majors in other countries and that's something I'd endorse. Keep the US and British Open (too much history to change those) keep the Masters too (even if its not a true Open - its too big and has a history now) but trash the USPGA and add a Major in another continent, Australasia / Far East would be my pick. I wouldn't even object if more Majors were added so that at least one could be played in each continent. It's not right that one country has 3/4s of the major events for what is a global sport and whilst the best players obviously play on the richest tour, that doesn't mean that the US owns the game.

 

There's already a rich crop of players coming through from the Far East where the game is massive and arguably that's where the future lies. Wait til the Chinese properly get their hands on it - the best players won't be American for long. Will you all stop watching when your boys aren't racking up the majors on your backyard courses?

 

Just as there would be negativity if the Euros lost. Winners get to drive the conversation, and that's fine. They've earned the right.

 

I'd welcome another major outside of the US, but it likely would not change the majority outcome. The Open Championship has been dominated by Americans for the last hundred 58 years, so they can obviously play over there. European countries are a distant second. Despite this past weekend, American golf is as young and as strong as ever.

 

Fixed it for you. The Open Championship might have been dominated by Americans in the 1920's (thank you Bobby Jones, Walter Hagen), but it was dominated by Peter Thompson in the 1950s and Henry Cotton and others before that. By the way, since Tom Watson won in 1984, non-Americans have won 19 out of the next 34 played. Hardly domination by Americans.

 

So you cherry picked a number like 58 to support your argument and by doing so, eliminated Bobby Jones and Walter Hagen??? Riiiiiight.

 

And if one country wins the same event 19 out of 34 times (essentially winning it every other year), an event comprised of players from all over the world, that's kind of dominating.

[Eyesore]

if u play in a team and you under preform you have to look at your team mates in the eyes and that makes you feel bad inside, more so for some and less for others, you also feel you have let your COUNTRY down, the fans and the flag, thats a different kind of pressure, some feel it more than an individual pressure, a sense of not just letting yourself down but your team too

 

its also very normal for people to look for reasons when their team, especially a national team loses, some americans like the comfort of saying our guys just don't dig the ryder cup, but unfortunately they do but the US team now has a hangup about the ryder cup, they badly want to win it but are unsure of how to exactly do this

 

Americans are very patriotic and love their country, except golfers it seems, don't think so

[Naptime]

I don't know who (or what a) Shipnuck is.

 

Alan Shipnuck is an American writer, who wrote this

 

https://www.golf.com...r-shifting-fast

 

LOL, I think he was being sarcastic.

[Darth Putter]

I don't know who (or what a) Shipnuck is.

 

Alan Shipnuck is an American writer, who wrote this

 

https://www.golf.com...r-shifting-fast

 

LOL, I think he was being sarcastic.

 

Oh he doubled down yesterday

 

 

https://www.golf.com/the-knockdown/2018/09/30/united-states-ryder-cup-future-remains-bright/

[Darth Putter]

Thank goodness golf isn't a team sport, I never would of picked up the game had it been.

 

As I told my high school golf coach my senior year, "the only reason I joined the team was to play other golf courses."

 

I'm 48 and have hit my fairways at a 29% clip this year, where's my Ryder Cup Captain's pick?

[FKA HB]

You don't have to play (lose?) the Ryder Cup to know that there is a huge team dynamic in golf with a partner. Has the OP never played in any team events at the club level?

[third-times-a-charm]

I think team golf is stupid and I dont understand the scoring at all. I have no idea what "3 UP" means when all year long I'm hearing scores like "MINUS 5" or "5 UNDER".

 

I watched every single PGA event since January, and I put the Ryder Cup out of mind this year without issue.

[Naptime]

You don't have to play (lose?) the Ryder Cup to know that there is a huge team dynamic in golf with a partner. Has the OP never played in any team events at the club level?

 

No, I don't belong to a golf club. Just a regular hacker on public and resort courses. :golfer:

Have played informal four ball matches. Not denying that a partner changes the dynamic. Just noting that if golf were fundamentally a team sport it would not be mostly singles play and singles scoring. By analogy, professional hockey is not played 1-on-1, American football is not played with 1 guy on each side, and on and on.

 

I enjoy playing four balls etc. because it compensates for my hacker level skill set (and my twosome can shoot 74) which typically means a hole is ruined by a crappy shot here and there.

[Gmack1973]

On a different note, post Brexit will the UK players still be playing under the EU flag? Or do we go back to the previous RC paradigm. Then we'll have 3 competitions, US v UK, US v EU, and the President's Cup. :golfer:

 

We are not leaving Europe mate??? We are just leaving the EU......unless there is a plan to tow us out into the Atlantic that im not aware of?

[puttingmatt]

The sunday singles match play

proved to be the deciding fate

for the americans. The Europeans were just better at winning their singles events.

[Naptime]

On a different note, post Brexit will the UK players still be playing under the EU flag? Or do we go back to the previous RC paradigm. Then we'll have 3 competitions, US v UK, US v EU, and the President's Cup. :golfer:

 

We are not leaving Europe mate??? We are just leaving the EU......unless there is a plan to tow us out into the Atlantic that im not aware of?

 

My comment was specifically about the flag you'd play under. Absent a parting of the tectonic plates you're still in Europe. Was in Scotland last year, had a great time and I actually like haggis. Does that help?

[naval2006]

I don't know who (or what a) Shipnuck is.

 

Alan Shipnuck is an American writer, who wrote this

 

https://www.golf.com/knockdown/2017/11/09/so-long-ryder-cup-euro-stars-fade-balance-power-shifting-fast

 

Classic media guy who wants to shine more than the stars he writes about. Clownish.

[Naptime]

The sunday singles match play

proved to be the deciding fate

for the americans. The Europeans were just better at winning their singles events.

 

This is an excellent point. The US players were bad in the "team" events and in the singles. They fundamentally were outplayed and the "team" play wasn't the dagger in the heart. They would have lost if it were all singles.

[duffer987]

On a different note, post Brexit will the UK players still be playing under the EU flag? Or do we go back to the previous RC paradigm. Then we'll have 3 competitions, US v UK, US v EU, and the President's Cup. :golfer:

 

We are not leaving Europe mate??? We are just leaving the EU......unless there is a plan to tow us out into the Atlantic that im not aware of?

 

My comment was specifically about the flag you'd play under. Absent a parting of the tectonic plates you're still in Europe. Was in Scotland last year, had a great time and I actually like haggis. Does that help?

You do know that continental European players joining the Ryder Cup predates the European Union right?

 

The previous 'paradigm' of which you speak did not exist. Continental Europeans simply had the week off.

[BearQ]

It seems to be a team sport on the other side of the planet tho :)

[naval2006]

I think team golf is stupid and I dont understand the scoring at all. I have no idea what "3 UP" means when all year long I'm hearing scores like "MINUS 5" or "5 UNDER".

 

I watched every single PGA event since January, and I put the Ryder Cup out of mind this year without issue.

 

Then you must be new to golf if you can’t follow a match.

 

By the way, match play was the original and main competition format until the Open started as a medal competition. And match play was how golf was played among professional golfers, very often fourball matches. And older pros would say they’d earn more many on a weekday match than winning a tour event. Guys like Palmer, Floyd, Trevino or Snead developed their competitive instinct through match play.

 

Match play is the ultimate thrill in golf, you play a match for your division at the Club Championship and you feel the same pressure as a guy closing to win the Open.

[Naptime]

On a different note, post Brexit will the UK players still be playing under the EU flag? Or do we go back to the previous RC paradigm. Then we'll have 3 competitions, US v UK, US v EU, and the President's Cup. :golfer:

 

We are not leaving Europe mate??? We are just leaving the EU......unless there is a plan to tow us out into the Atlantic that im not aware of?

 

My comment was specifically about the flag you'd play under. Absent a parting of the tectonic plates you're still in Europe. Was in Scotland last year, had a great time and I actually like haggis. Does that help?

You do know that continental European players joining the Ryder Cup predates the European Union right?

 

The previous 'paradigm' of which you speak did not exist. Continental Europeans simply had the week off.

 

Yup. But I don't recall what flag they used back then. The current gold star circle on a blue background is specifically the EU flag, not a generic European flag. If a Norwegian or Swiss citizen etc. played in the RC, it would be a bit interesting to see how that would be perceived in the player's home country etc.

[Lagavulin62]

I don't know who (or what a) Shipnuck is.

 

Alan Shipnuck is an American writer, who wrote this

 

https://www.golf.com...r-shifting-fast

 

LOL, I think he was being sarcastic.

 

 

 

I didn’t know who he was. I don’t much golf though.

[widow-maker]

The truth of the matter is that these two teams were reasonably evenly matched and somebody was going to win and somebody was going to lose. The Euros just played better. They could play again next weekend and have the opposite result. It's sports and the unpredictability is what keeps us interested.

 

Now, having said that, if you go back 25 years and look at the results over a long period of time, it's obvious that there's been something wrong on the American side. I guess we'll see how the Americans do in 2020. We did win at Hazeltine, so it might be premature to lump the current young American players into the same bag as Mickelson and Woods can be lumped into. Until then, there will be a lot of opinions about the why, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[aiyyer]

So doubles in tennis is individual?

Few good singles players made good doubles plAyers- with exceptions of course.

[Lagavulin62]

I think team golf is stupid and I dont understand the scoring at all. I have no idea what "3 UP" means when all year long I'm hearing scores like "MINUS 5" or "5 UNDER".

 

I watched every single PGA event since January, and I put the Ryder Cup out of mind this year without issue.

 

Then you must be new to golf if you can’t follow a match.

 

By the way, match play was the original and main competition format until the Open started as a medal competition. And match play was how golf was played among professional golfers, very often fourball matches. And older pros would say they’d earn more many on a weekday match than winning a tour event. Guys like Palmer, Floyd, Trevino or Snead developed their competitive instinct through match play.

 

Match play is the ultimate thrill in golf, you play a match for your division at the Club Championship and you feel the same pressure as a guy closing to win the Open.

 

 

 

 

 

And you must be a golf snob? Not every golf fan was raised at the club and grew up playing matches with daddy and gramp’s buddies. They learns to play in a park and the city courses. So hard as it is for you to understand they really don’t unterstand this RC Match Play business. And on tv they really don’t undersrand one up etc. How do teams score a point and what is this half point stuff? Oh what about who played and won these matches previous days? Try finding answers to those questions in real time on the internet.

 

This is not an argument. This is how it is and if they want this to even get close to mainstream casual fans they better get better at this. The networks suck.

[Bingo1976]

I think team golf is stupid and I dont understand the scoring at all. I have no idea what "3 UP" means when all year long I'm hearing scores like "MINUS 5" or "5 UNDER".

 

I watched every single PGA event since January, and I put the Ryder Cup out of mind this year without issue.

 

Then you must be new to golf if you can't follow a match.

 

By the way, match play was the original and main competition format until the Open started as a medal competition. And match play was how golf was played among professional golfers, very often fourball matches. And older pros would say they'd earn more many on a weekday match than winning a tour event. Guys like Palmer, Floyd, Trevino or Snead developed their competitive instinct through match play.

 

Match play is the ultimate thrill in golf, you play a match for your division at the Club Championship and you feel the same pressure as a guy closing to win the Open.

 

 

 

 

 

And you must be a golf snob? Not every golf fan was raised at the club and grew up playing matches with daddy and gramp's buddies. They learns to play in a park and the city courses. So hard as it is for you to understand they really don't unterstand this RC Match Play business. And on tv they really don't undersrand one up etc. How do teams score a point and what is this half point stuff? Oh what about who played and won these matches previous days? Try finding answers to those questions in real time on the internet.

 

This is not an argument. This is how it is and if they want this to even get close to mainstream casual fans they better get better at this. The networks suck.

 

The Ryder Cup is probably (in my opinion) the biggest draw in golf for non golf and casual golfers. You get a match turning event on each hole, rather than 4 days of watching people holing random putts that may or may not change the result on a Sunday.

 

Matchplay rules are really not difficult to learn if you spend a bit of time to learn them.

 

I grew up in the UK, and now play in Asia, but matchplay is widely played in both continents, both at club level and also informally. It's a very good game for all levels of play as one blow up hole only costs you one point rather than 3 or 4 (stableford) or infinity with medal play.

 

The Ryder Cup app let you very easily find the previous days scores - it took me about 3 seconds to find them.

[FIRs&GIRs&3-Putts]

So doubles in tennis is individual?

Few good singles players made good doubles plAyers- with exceptions of course.

 

Fully aware, the point is that tennis is both an individual and team sport (depending on what you are playing) and golf can be too, just because it is predominately an individual sport it doesn’t devalue the Ryder Cup.

[Tim Sherwood]

I refuse to believe there are people that play golf but don't understand matchplay scoring. Nice try.

[MarkAJones]

When it was just Britain and Ireland, the Ryder Cup was a non-event both in terms of competitiveness and media interest. The US won it every time because they had the best players. Growing up in the 70s, golf wasn't really my main sport but I was a sports fan so was aware of the who the big names were. They were mainly American. I first got into playing and watching more when Lyle and Faldo were having success.

 

Having "Team Europe" made the Ryder Cup. It's way more competitive now. I think the issue is that as golf is predominantly a solo sport, there's naturally a mentality of single-mindedness in players. When you then try and transpose that to a team setting, well I guess it just doesn't work for some. They're just more used to being in it for themselves. I'm not knocking that - you need that to be successful on tour. Case in point is Tiger Woods - individually the greatest of all time (OK Jack, 2nd) but just doesn't look up for the Ryder Cup. Why? My guess, it's not a major. Winning doesn't add another notch to his tour / majors record. Personally, it's only worth playing him in the singles and if so, why bother taking him?

 

I think the Europeans love the Ryder Cup because it gives them collectively a chance to show that although the US tour is the big one and although US players mop up most of the majors, European golf is just as good. It's a cliche but they really do want it more. Of course there are exceptions on the US team. I'm no Patrick Reed fan (sssshhhh) and he didn't have a great week but I 100% admire his fiercely competitive nature. He hates losing. He'd sulk if you beat him at naughts and crosses.

 

As for flags, I don't think the Europeans care too much what the collective flag is. The EU is a political and economic behemoth and we'll be out of it soon. The players all wore their own nationality flags anyway.

 

Anyway, can't wait til Whistling Straits. I'm sure the Task force will have a new plan by then.....

[Zz24hours]

Golf is a team sport!

 

While I like playing the game on my own, trying to achieve my best, I sure enjoy playing our team competitions more - sadly I don't have the time or talent to be a part of our clubs teams that often, but I wish I could be.