Ryder Cup disappointment

[Caddykev]

Does anyone know where to find actual statistics from this past weekend? Fairways hit and strokes gained and driving distance and all that?

 

My impression from watching was that the Euro team was doing its fair share of spraying it around, but they seemed to be making a lot more putts.

 

I think the end of the FedEx Cup schedule had plenty to do with our guys demeanor and body language in France. Tiger looked notably tired, although he still played pretty well in my opinion. And by Sunday lots of the guys looked tired. Between jetlag and playing the 5th straight week of high stakes grinding golf I'm not surprised if they were out of gas at the end. PGA Tour didn't do the U.S. team any favors with their brainless scheduling.

I was thinking the same thing about the scheduling aspect. It will be interesting to see if the Fed Ex Cup ending at Labor Day will have any impact on the results for the US at home and abroad.

[IHFN]

In the end I think it's pretty simple that the US isn't going to do well on these types of courses. To expect the US to win this year was an unrealistic expectation. They didn't have the players, or the preparation in order to win. I don't think drastic changes need to be made. Just better dedication in preparing for the course and the type of golf that will need to be played. Combined with the fatigue of just finishing the Tour Championship, it was never in the cards for the US to win this year.

 

The best talent doesn't always win. We need to eventually learn that.

[JohnnyCashForever]

^^^^^I have heard of people who work like 5 days in a row, for at least 8 hours each day, and they do this for at least 48 weeks a year!

Pros do much more than an 8 hour day. Also dont forget theyre usually committed to a pro am, a couple of practice days plus the tournament days. Week in week out living out of hotels and travelling. I can see it being very wearing.

 

Tell that to a coal miner.

[JohnnyCashForever]

 

Play the event on American soil in the deep south. Get the NASCAR and pro wrestling fans to go. Get Europe thinking more about Deliverance than executing a proper golf shot.

 

Almost perfect. If I may, we need to somehow work in some type of cage match (ala a UFC Octagon or Mel Gibson/Tina Turner Thunderdome) into this mad scheme.

[SheriffBooth]

I think the end of the FedEx Cup schedule had plenty to do with our guys demeanor and body language in France. Tiger looked notably tired, although he still played pretty well in my opinion. And by Sunday lots of the guys looked tired. Between jetlag and playing the 5th straight week of high stakes grinding golf I'm not surprised if they were out of gas at the end. PGA Tour didn't do the U.S. team any favors with their brainless scheduling.

 

11 of the 12 US players played the same schedule but so did 6 of the Euro team, Rose, Rory, Fleetwood, Rahm, Casey and Molinari. Are they in better shape than their opponnets?

 

I don't think Rose, McIlroy, Rahm or Casey played particularly great either. Fleetwood was inspired the first two days, and Molinari was superhuman - credit where credit is due there for sure.

 

All I'm saying is our guys looked gassed and having the Tour Championship on Sunday couldn't have helped. It's not like in the off week they could all pop over to France and practice for the Ryder Cup. Both tours should want both teams as rested and fresh as possible - the PGA Tour schedule had something to do with this not being the best possible competition, in my opinion.

[Hawkeye77]

Don't care what side you were rooting for, needs and deserves a week in between, especially Tour Championship.

[Londoner]

^^^^^I have heard of people who work like 5 days in a row, for at least 8 hours each day, and they do this for at least 48 weeks a year!

Pros do much more than an 8 hour day. Also dont forget theyre usually committed to a pro am, a couple of practice days plus the tournament days. Week in week out living out of hotels and travelling. I can see it being very wearing.

Tell that to a coal miner.

I will tell a couple of ex miners down the club on saturday. Im pretty sure they already know. :swoon:

[tiderider]

^^^^^I have heard of people who work like 5 days in a row, for at least 8 hours each day, and they do this for at least 48 weeks a year!

Pros do much more than an 8 hour day. Also dont forget theyre usually committed to a pro am, a couple of practice days plus the tournament days. Week in week out living out of hotels and travelling. I can see it being very wearing.

 

Tell that to a coal miner.

 

what a GREAT comparison ... SPOT ON ...

[qtlaw]

The course set-up was fantastic. Loved the risk reward out there and the need to hit the FW.

 

Rules and conditions are the same for everyone; can't play in those conditions, don't play, or at least don't complain.

 

Its a home and home event, in 2020 its here.

 

Molinari was fantastic and Sergio and Poulter hit big putts like they have done in the past.

 

What was up with Tiger and the rain pants? Horrible, anti-team look. Big fan of JT now, he was nails.

[Gilmore-Happy]

As an Englishman this was a fantastic tournament to watch. The captain's picks were a huge difference maker but ultimately this comes down to two things.

 

1) Quite simply, the Europeans have a greater will to win. Individually, and as a team, they simply click into another level when it comes to matchplay & representing a banner.

 

2) The PGA tour is setup to only play one kind of golf - ultra long tee shots, ultra wide fairways, barely any penalising rough, then hit a wedge on. It is barely golf as we know it - these guys have little to no need for a long iron - it's just driver, short shot, ad infinitum. Now, there are a few exceptions - Spieth and Woods can handle a links course with the best of them, but as a rule, DJ etc are conditioned to only play boring long PGA courses. There is almost no variety to them whatsoever. They also have no ability to putt on anything that isn't a dead -13 on the stimp. They struggled to adjust to slightly slower greens all week. On the European tour they play exceptionally diverse courses from links through parkland and everything inbetween.

 

The USA needs to learn that whilst the PGA Tour is the daddy, golf is a sport played around the world in all its glorious forms, and until they learn to adapt, adjust and develop, they'll only succeed in Ryder Cups played on their specific courses. Europe have the ability to turn up in the USA and win, because of a willingness to learn and adapt.

 

I should add, I want the USA to succeed - the best Ryder Cups are the closely contended ones.

 

You took the words out of my mouth and I'm an American. The Euros literally live for the Ryder Cup. In my opinion, it just looks like the Americans are just "there". I knew it would be a blow out before the first tee shots. As someone else also said, the whole auto qualification thing is dumb on so many levels. Sure a player may be top 10, but that doesn't mean they are playing great golf running on all cylinders leading up to the Ryder Cup. I know everyone loves Phil, but cmon man. Someone that is known for being extremely erratic off the tee and you think it's a good idea to put him on a true links style course with 25 yard wide fairways? I loved seeing Tiger win the week before, but he just looked tired out there. Then there's EVERYONES favorite personality in Bubba (heavy sarcasm). He has made it known he isn't the biggest fan of playing in Europe (links golf). His game just isn't setup for it. Well and he hasn't exactly made the best of impressions the times he has played over there lol. I also think the Americans need to do a better job choosing captains. Bring back Azinger or Love. With all that being said, I do realize I am sitting here typing like a "keyboard coach" so don't get your panties in a wad lol. All just my opinion and how I see it.

[GolfChannel]

The first issue, the US team played like s***.

 

Second issue, the pairings should have been settled a while ago. Fleetwood and Molinari knew they were a team at the BMW while the US was didnât even know the night before they got on the plane to the Ryder Cup.

 

Third issue, this is a world of metrics. We could have picked a better team based on actual data then what was fielded. Some of the pairings were just absolute stupidity.

 

Despite all of this, the US played like s*** so would it have mattered?

[puttingmatt]

Does anyone know where to find actual statistics from this past weekend? Fairways hit and strokes gained and driving distance and all that?

 

My impression from watching was that the Euro team was doing its fair share of spraying it around, but they seemed to be making a lot more putts.

 

I think the end of the FedEx Cup schedule had plenty to do with our guys demeanor and body language in France. Tiger looked notably tired, although he still played pretty well in my opinion. And by Sunday lots of the guys looked tired. Between jetlag and playing the 5th straight week of high stakes grinding golf I'm not surprised if they were out of gas at the end. PGA Tour didn't do the U.S. team any favors with their brainless scheduling.

No they did not, years ago, the season was over for several weeks before the Ryder Cup.

 

 

 

Neither of these is true. The FedEx Cup has a 1 week break before the Tour Championship, this was not played after 5 straight weeks of high stakes golf by any means. It was the 2nd straight week of golf, for a bunch of guys built like linebackers this shouldnt be hard. Also, in the past the Tour Championship was in October, after the Ryder Cup.

I stand corrected, the tour championship was played after the Ryder Cup years back

[lazyjc4]

The first issue, the US team played like s***.

 

Second issue, the pairings should have been settled a while ago. Fleetwood and Molinari knew they were a team at the BMW while the US was didn’t even know the night before they got on the plane to the Ryder Cup.

 

And this is what the task force was supposed to "fix". The players needed more input so that they could be better prepared to play their best. No more surprises. No more hunches. A plan that would set the teams up for success year after year. Here we are one Cup removed from Hazeltine, and they've abandoned the plan, and they're right back to where they were after Gleneagles. Maybe listening to players who are only used to losing the Ryder Cup about how to win the Ryder Cup on a consistent basis wasn't the best course of action.

[Darth Putter]

Does anyone know where to find actual statistics from this past weekend? Fairways hit and strokes gained and driving distance and all that?

 

My impression from watching was that the Euro team was doing its fair share of spraying it around, but they seemed to be making a lot more putts.

 

I think the end of the FedEx Cup schedule had plenty to do with our guys demeanor and body language in France. Tiger looked notably tired, although he still played pretty well in my opinion. And by Sunday lots of the guys looked tired. Between jetlag and playing the 5th straight week of high stakes grinding golf I'm not surprised if they were out of gas at the end. PGA Tour didn't do the U.S. team any favors with their brainless scheduling.

No they did not, years ago, the season was over for several weeks before the Ryder Cup.

 

 

 

Neither of these is true. The FedEx Cup has a 1 week break before the Tour Championship, this was not played after 5 straight weeks of high stakes golf by any means. It was the 2nd straight week of golf, for a bunch of guys built like linebackers this shouldn’t be hard. Also, in the past the Tour Championship was in October, after the Ryder Cup.

I stand corrected, the tour championship was played after the Ryder Cup years back

 

For instance the 1983 edition in West Palm Beach, before the advent of the Tour Championship, had the Ryder Cup the week before the Walt Disney Classic.

[ClintDagger]

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

Rory is for sure. Probably also Rahm. After that I can’t call anyone else on their team prototypical bomb & gouge types. The US had at least 8.

[ssfranny]

As an Englishman this was a fantastic tournament to watch. The captain's picks were a huge difference maker but ultimately this comes down to two things.

 

1) Quite simply, the Europeans have a greater will to win. Individually, and as a team, they simply click into another level when it comes to matchplay & representing a banner.

 

2) The PGA tour is setup to only play one kind of golf - ultra long tee shots, ultra wide fairways, barely any penalising rough, then hit a wedge on. It is barely golf as we know it - these guys have little to no need for a long iron - it's just driver, short shot, ad infinitum. Now, there are a few exceptions - Spieth and Woods can handle a links course with the best of them, but as a rule, DJ etc are conditioned to only play boring long PGA courses. There is almost no variety to them whatsoever. They also have no ability to putt on anything that isn't a dead -13 on the stimp. They struggled to adjust to slightly slower greens all week. On the European tour they play exceptionally diverse courses from links through parkland and everything inbetween.

 

The USA needs to learn that whilst the PGA Tour is the daddy, golf is a sport played around the world in all its glorious forms, and until they learn to adapt, adjust and develop, they'll only succeed in Ryder Cups played on their specific courses. Europe have the ability to turn up in the USA and win, because of a willingness to learn and adapt.

 

I should add, I want the USA to succeed - the best Ryder Cups are the closely contended ones.

 

 

Euros have a chip in their shoulder since theyre looked at as inferior players and play on an inferior Euro tour. Not really true but what they think. Also, Im sorry no rational person compares Ryder Cup record to Majors. Think what you want Ian and Sergio.

[JohnnyCashForever]

2. How long ago did Captain Furyk know about the course set-up? Why didn't he pick players who are better suited for precision over power? Kisner perhaps? Why didn't he mandate that all potential team members play the French Open in 2017 or 2018? Justin played this year. He did well in the tournament. That must have helped considerably at the Ryder Cup.

 

 

He's got 4 picks in theory, but the reality is that he had maybe one.

 

Tiger and Phil were locks as long as they were healthy. BD played himself on by winning two FedEx tourneys.

 

So you swap Kisner with Finau? That's the fix?

 

The RC captain could have 12 captain's picks and he'd still end up with almost the exact same team as they end up with every year. There isn't some huge stable of dependable talent out there being overlooked that you could pick from and still be considered a legitimate team in the eyes of everyone in the world not commenting on this thread.

 

A team without TW is not legitimate. A team without the World's #1 is not legitimate. A team without the winner of the last two US Open's is not legitimate. A team without "Captain America Reed" would not have been legitimate.

 

Excellent point. No Captain is going to leave off current major champions, a player hot over the last several months leading to the RC, or the world's #1, for Kevin Kisner, or some other run of the mill tour player because they have some specific stat in which they are proficient. If a Captain where to do this and lose, they would be the laughing stock of the pro golf fraternity forever. Blackballed as a kook.

 

The whole reason they limit the Captain's pick and make the bulk of team qualify without human intervention is to keep some nut job from going off the rails. It is like leaving Lebron off the U.S. team in favor of Trevor Ariza.

 

Horses for courses. There's a reason Phil has never won a US Open (when they were still set up like US Opens).

He did finish second or T2 six times at the US Open

 

2nds don't feed the bulldog*.

 

 

 

*I have no idea what that means, but it seems appropriate.

[imakaveli]

Ditch one random playoffs event, I am sure nobody would even notice.

[jimb6golf]

Maybe they need to schedule the event where it's not directly after the Fed Ex Cup playoffs which is pretty tiring I would imagine. Beyond that the talk about who the captain is, etc. is kind of silly. I would imagine that anyone that played college golf would be familiar with this type of event and know when to give your opponent a gimmee or how best to play every hole, but it should be a team wide approach to the event and not left to the individual golfer. Ok maybe there is something to being the captain, they should be a team builder that firmly establishes the strategy of how the team will play the course and the various formats. They should pick someone who has won before and not just someone who is next in line and they should use the vice captains as stepping stones for the next captain as well. Have the captains take lessons from real team leaders from other sports about how to lead and organize their team. Overall just seems like they just show up and expect to win and don't really have any noticeable strategy or teamwork and that should change.

[VNutz]

Well the FedEx Cup moves to August next year so that won't be a hindrance going forward. It is somewhat ironic to me that they schedule a week off into the FedEx Cup for rest, but players have to go over to Europe week of. Poor planning. Not the reason they struggled but it certainly didn't help IMO.

 

In the end it doesn't matter. We can make excuses all day but the bottom line is the US team played like garbage, and the European team played very well. As an American I'm extremely disappointed in the team; this wasn't the 2006 team that had zero chance before it started, yet they performed about the same. But even more so I'm disappointed that we as fans didn't get the tightly contested Ryder Cup to watch and cheer for that we've come to love. I'm sure Euro fans enjoyed it, but I thought it was rather boring being so one sided and lacking drama.

[Pepperturbo]

Make Tony Romo and Larry Fitzgerald the RC captains. They are accustomed to team sports and pretty good golfers.

 

Though there's merit to that thought, "all" Ryder Cup members have to want to be part of the team and understand team nuances. A few as RC captains won't make the difference because those that don't get it, won't hear or adapt, as we just saw. :beach:

[Hawkeye77]

 

Second issue, the pairings should have been settled a while ago. Fleetwood and Molinari knew they were a team at the BMW while the US was didn’t even know the night before they got on the plane to the Ryder Cup.

 

 

Where do you come up with this BS?

[Hawkeye77]

Ditch one random playoffs event, I am sure nobody would even notice.

 

Most haven't noticed they've done that starting next year!

[imakaveli]

Ditch one random playoffs event, I am sure nobody would even notice.

 

Most haven't noticed they've done that starting next year!

 

Then ditch two! ?

[GolfChannel]

 

Second issue, the pairings should have been settled a while ago. Fleetwood and Molinari knew they were a team at the BMW while the US was didn’t even know the night before they got on the plane to the Ryder Cup.

 

 

Where do you come up with this BS?

 

Multiple golf journalists who reported it to be true, which was then confirmed on the NLU podcast.

[lowndes]

I simply think the US players don’t care that much about winning or losing the event. Everything about it seems manufactured. I can’t say I blame them. Out of all the golf events I simply don’t find the Ryder Cup (or President’s Cup) all that compelling.

[Londoner]

^^^^^I have heard of people who work like 5 days in a row, for at least 8 hours each day, and they do this for at least 48 weeks a year!

Pros do much more than an 8 hour day. Also dont forget theyre usually committed to a pro am, a couple of practice days plus the tournament days. Week in week out living out of hotels and travelling. I can see it being very wearing.

 

Tell that to a coal miner.

 

what a GREAT comparison ... SPOT ON ...

yep. Only coal miners can get knackered. I think you missed the point.

[BiggErn]

I may be in the minority but I honestly don’t really care about the Ryder cup or presidents cup. I pull for the US but couldn’t care less who wins. I just don’t view it as some sort of patriotic event like the olympics or anything and it’s hard to take golf seriously in that regard as well.

[tiderider]

^^^^^I have heard of people who work like 5 days in a row, for at least 8 hours each day, and they do this for at least 48 weeks a year!

Pros do much more than an 8 hour day. Also dont forget theyre usually committed to a pro am, a couple of practice days plus the tournament days. Week in week out living out of hotels and travelling. I can see it being very wearing.

 

Tell that to a coal miner.

 

what a GREAT comparison ... SPOT ON ...

yep. Only coal miners can get knackered. I think you missed the point.

 

was being sarcastic ...

[taporsnap17]

Given that, assuming all things constant, 8 of 12 are selected by rankings based on their results on courses where "bomb and gauge" is apparently the way to go, how does one avoid it?

 

I think USA just got plain outplayed this time around. A lot of players chose the wrong weekend to bring their C games.