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Can I feel 1/2" Shaft Change?


tom.lockhart

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Food for thought too, that too light a swing weight/total weight can accentuate the out to in/over the top tendency.

 

Perhaps Titleist used lighter heads to try to achieve the light swing weight/graphite with the shorter build?

 

Absolutely, reading this thread has me thinking it's less of a length issue, and more of a swingweight/weight and potentially a lie angle issue. I'm going to start with some lead tape and see where I will end up. I'm going to have to add a TON to it, because I believe my clubs are most likely in C7 range, reading about others experience switching to the steelfibers.

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Titleist TSi2 Hybrid 18* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist U510 21* HZRDUS Black Smoke
Titleist 718 AP1 5-GW i95 Steelfiber
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I thought I've read a few other posts where Steelfibers were designed to play closer to steel in SW? D2 to C7 would seem dramatic with all else being the same with only 1/2" change in length?

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I thought I've read a few other posts where Steelfibers were designed to play closer to steel in SW? D2 to C7 would seem dramatic with all else being the same with only 1/2" change in length?

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...ngweight-issue/

 

This post here is someone who had a set "built to spec" by Titleist but the swingweights were between c9 - d0. This was on a standard length iron. I can't say for sure until I take my sticks in to the shop I bought them from tomorrow to confirm what sw's mine came with.

 

The steelfibers play close to steel based on the flex/control but everything I've read the SW's are all over the place. Had I known this previously, I would not have made the move. This is proving to be quite the headache.

Titleist TSi3 10* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 15* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 Hybrid 18* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist U510 21* HZRDUS Black Smoke
Titleist 718 AP1 5-GW i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM7 52.8F - Jet Black
Titleist SM9 56.10S - Jet Black
2013 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2 (Black Mist) - 34"
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To anyone following this or wondering.

 

I took the irons in today and sure enough, all 7 of them came in at C6!!! Talk about LIGHT.

 

So this evening I will be adding a TON of lead tape to each one to get it up to a D1/D2 range and then going from there.

 

Needless to say i'm very upset with Titleist for not building the clubs to the D1 specified on the order.

Titleist TSi3 10* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 15* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 Hybrid 18* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist U510 21* HZRDUS Black Smoke
Titleist 718 AP1 5-GW i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM7 52.8F - Jet Black
Titleist SM9 56.10S - Jet Black
2013 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2 (Black Mist) - 34"
2021 Titleist ProV1

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Oh man! That sucks! I would be pissed too. Club champion can surely cut you a break to put in some tip weights can't they?

 

4 swing weight points is way over any acceptable range for new clubs ordered/built to spec. Asking a customer to put on 10g of lead tape on to new clubs seems to fly in the face of anything they claim to stand for or advertise.

 

I just had some 10g tip weights added and it's fairly straight forward. I know graphite is different slightly but should be doable?

 

I would definately try to contact them and see what can be done.

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Oh man! That sucks! I would be pissed too. Club champion can surely cut you a break to put in some tip weights can't they?

 

4 swing weight points is way over any acceptable range for new clubs ordered/built to spec. Asking a customer to put on 10g of lead tape on to new clubs seems to fly in the face of anything they claim to stand for or advertise.

 

I just had some 10g tip weights added and it's fairly straight forward. I know graphite is different slightly but should be doable?

 

I would definately try to contact them and see what can be done.

 

There is some 9 grams tungsten tip wgt for graphites, so the question is, are there any tip weights in use already and how large are they?, will changing to a 9 gram get those clubs to target?

DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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I would think you may have to use a combo of tip weights and possibly more length to get back to your target. Maybe go back to Std playing length or -1/4 then use the heavy tip weight too.

 

That's why I was questioning going shorter off the hop with expensive graphite. The fitter should have know/disclosed this... Your strikes where fine at std length, could have been easily fine tuned after the build.

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I would think you may have to use a combo of tip weights and possibly more length to get back to your target. Maybe go back to Std playing length or -1/4 then use the heavy tip weight too.

 

That's why I was questioning going shorter off the hop with expensive graphite. The fitter should have know/disclosed this... Your strikes where fine at std length, could have been easily fine tuned after the build.

 

Exactly.

 

I'm not very happy at the moment. I think to get these things to a D2 without using lead tape i'm going to have to have them extended and then the heavy tips. It's going to cost a ton more than just ordering them standard and having titleist build them at D2.

 

Will I have any negative effects to the playability of the clubs if I extend them? Obviously I will need to get the lies adjusted accordingly. How many swing weight points would moving up 1/2" provide?

Titleist TSi3 10* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 15* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 Hybrid 18* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist U510 21* HZRDUS Black Smoke
Titleist 718 AP1 5-GW i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM7 52.8F - Jet Black
Titleist SM9 56.10S - Jet Black
2013 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2 (Black Mist) - 34"
2021 Titleist ProV1

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Will I have any negative effects to the playability of the clubs if I extend them?

 

If the reasons for fitting you to -1/2" in the first place were valid, then probably.

 

How many swing weight points would moving up 1/2" provide?

 

About 3 sw pts.

 

C6 is a little surprising, even for i95's and -1/2" - unless you also have mid-sized grips?

 

With normal "standard" weight heads (not necessarily Titleist's standard), I would have expected more like C8 w/ 50 gm grips with no tip weights.

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Thanks for all the feedback.

 

To clear a few things up with the fitting, it was done at Club Champion and the progressions was something like this:

  1. Hit about 10 shots with my current 6 iron
  2. Measurements done on my current 6 iron (SW, lie, loft) and then on myself and that's when we began testing shafts, all were 1/2" short.
  3. Worked through about 20 shafts and it was clear there were 2 that were working out much better, the numbers with the i95 had us settled on that
  4. Then we worked through about 8 different heads and the AP1 head was producing the best results
  5. After this, he then was adding lead tape to the hosel to determine SW, we settled on a D1 swingweight
  6. After this we did the vertical line test to determine lie angle, I will say that when doing the vertical test we looked at both the standard shaft and the 1/2" shorter - coinincidentally, the strikes on the 1/2" shorter were a bit towards the toe, but lower on the face, the strikes with the 1/2" longer, were right in the center of the clubface but a little high on the face. The fitter determined that the 1/2" shorter was the choice for me.

I'm going to take the clubs to where I ordered them tomorrow and have the SW's checked, we clearly specified to Titleist that we wanted a D1 swingweight, but I've read a few other posts with these exact same shafts that sometimes Titleist won't be able to add enough weight to take the clubs to the specified SW. Which seems a little BS to me, but we'll see. I've had the sticks for about 3 weeks, if they weren't built at the proper SW is this something I could send back to Titleist?

 

Once I know what the actual SW is - I'm going to add lead tape to get them to where I believe they should be - D1/D2 SW. I'm going to play with them for a few rounds/range sessions and see if things change.

 

 

I'm not a fitter, but based on this I would say you are fine with adding the 1/2 inch back to get to std length. That's what you are used to playing anyway... That's why this whole thing sounds wrong from the get go.

 

I think it may be one of the only options to get your swing weight back to desired level without too much extra trouble. Imo the place you bought them from should do this and the tip weights at no charge since you bought from them. Or they can deal with Titleist direct and re order the set or get them to cover cost of adjustments. These were a lot of money and shaft up charge, and to get clubs that are not playable seems absolutely unacceptable.

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I thought I've read a few other posts where Steelfibers were designed to play closer to steel in SW? D2 to C7 would seem dramatic with all else being the same with only 1/2" change in length?

 

Weird! 3 swing points drop is normal per my experience and company response/acknowledgement.


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So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6. Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

 

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

 

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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I think I may owe you a virtual case of beer then! Diy driver tune up, putter tune up, swing weight, diy moi, etc. Your knowledge is what keeps me glued to the club tech threads. Cheers!

 

You are most welcome, i hope those DIY made a improvement for you?

 

i also hope the OP keep us updated on this irons, he is far from alone with a experience like that, and this is things that should not happen, but it does all the time and thats a big shame and makes players to question the whole golf industry. For Titleist this is bad, since they have made fitting a important part of their sale policy, but if they cant deliver the specs a fitting suggest, why go for a Titleist fitting then?

DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6. Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

 

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

 

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

 

I owe you a damn KEG!

 

Played yesterday and the irons are BACK, Was striping them like I normally would, the ball was flying higher and further. I now have to recalculate my yardages as I flew the first 4 greens of the day. I hit multiple 6irons about 160 carry, which is FAR for me. It's about 15 yards further than the 712s I had, not sure how much of that would be the 3* stronger loft and how much is the new head/shaft combo.

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

Now I just have to decide if I leave the lead tape on the clubs, or try to go a tip weight route, or go the lengthen route. I'm thinking now I may go the lengthen route, as the lower wedges, PW and 48* do feel a little bit short to me.

Titleist TSi3 10* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 15* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 Hybrid 18* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist U510 21* HZRDUS Black Smoke
Titleist 718 AP1 5-GW i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM7 52.8F - Jet Black
Titleist SM9 56.10S - Jet Black
2013 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2 (Black Mist) - 34"
2021 Titleist ProV1

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So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6. Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

 

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

 

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

 

I owe you a damn KEG!

 

Played yesterday and the irons are BACK, Was striping them like I normally would, the ball was flying higher and further. I now have to recalculate my yardages as I flew the first 4 greens of the day. I hit multiple 6irons about 160 carry, which is FAR for me. It's about 15 yards further than the 712s I had, not sure how much of that would be the 3* stronger loft and how much is the new head/shaft combo.

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

Now I just have to decide if I leave the lead tape on the clubs, or try to go a tip weight route, or go the lengthen route. I'm thinking now I may go the lengthen route, as the lower wedges, PW and 48* do feel a little bit short to me.

 

This is my suggestion if this ends up with that you would have to take care of this your self.

Most of us benefit from shorter long irons, but thats not always good in the short end, and you have already noticed that, but we can actually have both. You have also found that resistance and balance is highly important for you, and that leads me to suggest a 3/8" set up with progressive SW value to "poor mans moi match".

 

If the 3/8" route is new for you, spend some minutes to read about it in this tread where the issues was the same...going shorter like you starting out now, but there was options this players have not heard of before, but a few of them in the tread saw the idea and consept as interesting and did it.

 

In your case that means we can leave the longest iron as it is now, nd then add extensions to the others both for play lenght and SW reason, and since we are adding 1/8" then 2/8" then 3/8" vs how they are now, we add 0.75 SWP for each 1/8"

If your set up is 3-PW then a start from the #7 iron gives a #3 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)

if your set up is 4-PW then a start from the #8 iron gives a #4 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)

Both this set ups gives a short end in the area of standard play lenght, so you go longer vs now into the short.

 

Start with this post, and study the chart for starting points to see how the different 3/8" set ups looks like vs standard, we can get the short or long or both ends adjusted vs standard so our stance and ability to make a good impact is the best "all the way"....

Using Progressive SW with a slope of 0.5 SWP on 3/8" sets makes all clubs to be "identical" on actual resistance, so when we have tuned up our favorite club, and measured what SW value that club has when it works as we want it, we draw the SW slope both ways from that club to get target values for the others so they become just like the favorite club.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry17861876

 

Just ask any question, this is new stuff for many readers and it might sound very advanced but its not, its very easy and strait forward when we have found out what set up for play lenght thats the best for us.

 

 

PS! 3 degreeds stronger is 0.75 clubs longer or somthing in the area of 8-10 yards depending on club speed, so you improved impact and got a higher smashfactor and more ball speed, thats where the rest of the distance came from.

1 mph extra ball speed moves us on average 2 yards longer, so it seems like ball speed was up 2-3 mph vs before.

DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6. Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

 

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

 

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

 

I owe you a damn KEG!

 

Played yesterday and the irons are BACK, Was striping them like I normally would, the ball was flying higher and further. I now have to recalculate my yardages as I flew the first 4 greens of the day. I hit multiple 6irons about 160 carry, which is FAR for me. It's about 15 yards further than the 712s I had, not sure how much of that would be the 3* stronger loft and how much is the new head/shaft combo.

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

Now I just have to decide if I leave the lead tape on the clubs, or try to go a tip weight route, or go the lengthen route. I'm thinking now I may go the lengthen route, as the lower wedges, PW and 48* do feel a little bit short to me.

 

This is my suggestion if this ends up with that you would have to take care of this your self.

Most of us benefit from shorter long irons, but thats not always good in the short end, and you have already noticed that, but we can actually have both. You have also found that resistance and balance is highly important for you, and that leads me to suggest a 3/8" set up with progressive SW value to "poor mans moi match".

 

If the 3/8" route is new for you, spend some minutes to read about it in this tread where the issues was the same...going shorter like you starting out now, but there was options this players have not heard of before, but a few of them in the tread saw the idea and consept as interesting and did it.

 

In your case that means we can leave the longest iron as it is now, nd then add extensions to the others both for play lenght and SW reason, and since we are adding 1/8" then 2/8" then 3/8" vs how they are now, we add 0.75 SWP for each 1/8"

If your set up is 3-PW then a start from the #7 iron gives a #3 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)

if your set up is 4-PW then a start from the #8 iron gives a #4 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)

Both this set ups gives a short end in the area of standard play lenght, so you go longer vs now into the short.

 

Start with this post, and study the chart for starting points to see how the different 3/8" set ups looks like vs standard, we can get the short or long or both ends adjusted vs standard so our stance and ability to make a good impact is the best "all the way"....

Using Progressive SW with a slope of 0.5 SWP on 3/8" sets makes all clubs to be "identical" on actual resistance, so when we have tuned up our favorite club, and measured what SW value that club has when it works as we want it, we draw the SW slope both ways from that club to get target values for the others so they become just like the favorite club.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry17861876

 

Just ask any question, this is new stuff for many readers and it might sound very advanced but its not, its very easy and strait forward when we have found out what set up for play lenght thats the best for us.

 

 

PS! 3 degreeds stronger is 0.75 clubs longer or somthing in the area of 8-10 yards depending on club speed, so you improved impact and got a higher smashfactor and more ball speed, thats where the rest of the distance came from.

1 mph extra ball speed moves us on average 2 yards longer, so it seems like ball speed was up 2-3 mph vs before.

 

Thank you for that, I did read through that thread but my head is definitely spinning.

 

I'm confused on where to start, i carry 5-GW in the AP1. What would my ideal lengths and swingweight look like?

 

the lengths today are:

 

5- 37.5

6 - 37

7 - 36.5

8- 36

9- 35.5

PW- 35.25

GW - 35

Titleist TSi3 10* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 15* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist TSi2 Hybrid 18* HZRDUS Black Smoke RDX
Titleist U510 21* HZRDUS Black Smoke
Titleist 718 AP1 5-GW i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM7 52.8F - Jet Black
Titleist SM9 56.10S - Jet Black
2013 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2 (Black Mist) - 34"
2021 Titleist ProV1

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So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6. Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

 

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

 

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

 

I owe you a damn KEG!

 

Played yesterday and the irons are BACK, Was striping them like I normally would, the ball was flying higher and further. I now have to recalculate my yardages as I flew the first 4 greens of the day. I hit multiple 6irons about 160 carry, which is FAR for me. It's about 15 yards further than the 712s I had, not sure how much of that would be the 3* stronger loft and how much is the new head/shaft combo.

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

Now I just have to decide if I leave the lead tape on the clubs, or try to go a tip weight route, or go the lengthen route. I'm thinking now I may go the lengthen route, as the lower wedges, PW and 48* do feel a little bit short to me.

 

This is my suggestion if this ends up with that you would have to take care of this your self.

Most of us benefit from shorter long irons, but thats not always good in the short end, and you have already noticed that, but we can actually have both. You have also found that resistance and balance is highly important for you, and that leads me to suggest a 3/8" set up with progressive SW value to "poor mans moi match".

 

If the 3/8" route is new for you, spend some minutes to read about it in this tread where the issues was the same...going shorter like you starting out now, but there was options this players have not heard of before, but a few of them in the tread saw the idea and consept as interesting and did it.

 

In your case that means we can leave the longest iron as it is now, nd then add extensions to the others both for play lenght and SW reason, and since we are adding 1/8" then 2/8" then 3/8" vs how they are now, we add 0.75 SWP for each 1/8"

If your set up is 3-PW then a start from the #7 iron gives a #3 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)

if your set up is 4-PW then a start from the #8 iron gives a #4 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)

Both this set ups gives a short end in the area of standard play lenght, so you go longer vs now into the short.

 

Start with this post, and study the chart for starting points to see how the different 3/8" set ups looks like vs standard, we can get the short or long or both ends adjusted vs standard so our stance and ability to make a good impact is the best "all the way"....

Using Progressive SW with a slope of 0.5 SWP on 3/8" sets makes all clubs to be "identical" on actual resistance, so when we have tuned up our favorite club, and measured what SW value that club has when it works as we want it, we draw the SW slope both ways from that club to get target values for the others so they become just like the favorite club.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry17861876

 

Just ask any question, this is new stuff for many readers and it might sound very advanced but its not, its very easy and strait forward when we have found out what set up for play lenght thats the best for us.

 

 

PS! 3 degreeds stronger is 0.75 clubs longer or somthing in the area of 8-10 yards depending on club speed, so you improved impact and got a higher smashfactor and more ball speed, thats where the rest of the distance came from.

1 mph extra ball speed moves us on average 2 yards longer, so it seems like ball speed was up 2-3 mph vs before.

 

Thank you for that, I did read through that thread but my head is definitely spinning.

 

I'm confused on where to start, i carry 5-GW in the AP1. What would my ideal lengths and swingweight look like?

 

the lengths today are:

 

5- 37.5

6 - 37

7 - 36.5

8- 36

9- 35.5

PW- 35.25

GW - 35

 

Play length is easy, leave the #5 iron as it is, 0.5 shorter than STD, and ADD like this

 

#5 - No change, leave it 0.5" shorter than STD

#6 - plus 1/8" = 37 1/8

#7 - plus 2/8" = 36 6/8

#8 - plus 3/8" = 36 3/8

#9 - plus 4/8" = 36.00 or Back at standard play length

PW plus 3/8" = 35 5/8 or 1/8" shorter than std.

GW plus 2/8" = 35 2/8 (if you want it longer?)

 

 

Swing weight - This CANT be done before clubs are adjusted on play length like suggested.

Grab what ever club in the set that is your favorite, and tune it up with lead tape (never mind how much you add, DONT do any numbers during testing, just add until its to much, and step back until it feels right and works as you want it.

 

 

NOW, measure SW value on that club, and lets for the sake of example say that this was your #8 iron, and that club happens to work as you want it when SW was D2. Then we just make a slope both ways from the #8 iron with a progression of 0.5 SWP like this

 

GW D3.5 (if you add 2/8", if you leave it at 35.00, target value becomes D3.85 - shorter is UP on SW)

PW D3

#9 - D2.5

#8 - D2 your "fitting club"

#7- D1.5

#6 - D1

#5 - D0.5

 

So, we have to do some trial and error without caring about "values" at all, just add or remove lead tape until it works, THEN its time to measure and make the slope to see where the other clubs belong to be just like that "tuned up favorite club"

 

Its that simple, and works every time

 

PS! if your fitting of this set was by using the #6 iron 0.5 shorter than STD, and with a SW value of D1, we can take a short cut, and convert the values. Since we ADD 1/8" on that club (going longer is going DOWN on SW to match)

1 inch is 1.33 SWP / 8 ( 8 x 1/8" pr inch) = 0.16 SWP (we dont have to care when we go below 0.25 SWP), so if this is the case, just use the slope i wrote here, where you start with a #6 of D1, and the rest will have target specs as i wrote them up.

 

I know this sound strange for most players, but if your fitting club WAS the #6 iron and D1, your PW want feel the same before it has the value of D3 with the play length we found, and so goes for the others, the values you see DONT ADD resistance like those numbers seems to indicate, its only a correction factor we have to use to eliminate the error a SW scale makes since it cant see what play length we measure, and this "error" is 1.33 SWP pr inch. Thats why we need to use a progressive SW slope to get FLAT or equal resistance on the all.

 

EDIT.

*added your GW, and corrected a error on the PW length

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So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6. Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

 

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

 

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

 

A friend of mine is the former President of the Golf Ball Division at Achusnet, we are members at the same club and play 2 -3 times a week in the same group. Played golf with him and the local Titleist rep today, confirmed that they definitely weight sort the heads into light, standard and heavy.

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So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6. Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

 

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

 

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

 

A friend of mine is the former President of the Golf Ball Division at Achusnet, we are members at the same club and play 2 -3 times a week in the same group. Played golf with him and the local Titleist rep today, confirmed that they definitely weight sort the heads into light, standard and heavy.

 

Good to know, but did he tell you about what tolerances they was sorted by ?

(like DG sub flex, there must be some sorting standards)

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  • 2 weeks later...

If Howard or anyone can help me this will be great....

 

My main problem is a toe shot on an iron.

 

I'm 5'10, wrist to floor 34.5" (I fall in the standard category). Even my grip too (I can't recall my measurement but it was within standard), I haven't tried slightly bigger grip but I feel that may help.

Most of the time with my irons, Trackman/GCQ numbers are as follows:

 

Face Angle: 2~4deg open

Club Path: 3~8deg open

Face to Path: being slightly negative (-1~2 which is almost to the center of the target) due to face angle always being closed than club path.

Impact location: toe

Lie angle (GCQ): -3~-8 deg

Usual dispersion with current iron: draw shots

 

I currently use AP2 (62deg lie, normal length). I've recently got fit with PXG and Titleist and while the balls were more straight and better dispersed due to the clubs being forgiving (0311 & 0311XF and AP1), they were still hitting on the toe.

 

PXG suggested 1/4" longer length and 1deg flat, while Titleist said normal for all. Swingweight D1 for PXG and no mentioning from Titleist (just standard).

 

What I'm really wondering is, is this my swing flaw, or would there be some adjustments that I can make here? If I bend it more upright, then it contradicts because I'm gonna hit it more to the left. At the same time, current PXG fitting just resets itself since I'm making it longer and flattening that out again. I'm really lost here as to what would be the best solution here.

 

Thanks in advance.

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If Howard or anyone can help me this will be great....

 

My main problem is a toe shot on an iron.

 

I'm 5'10, wrist to floor 34.5" (I fall in the standard category). Even my grip too (I can't recall my measurement but it was within standard), I haven't tried slightly bigger grip but I feel that may help.

Most of the time with my irons, Trackman/GCQ numbers are as follows:

 

Face Angle: 2~4deg open

Club Path: 3~8deg open

Face to Path: being slightly negative (-1~2 which is almost to the center of the target) due to face angle always being closed than club path.

Impact location: toe

Lie angle (GCQ): -3~-8 deg

Usual dispersion with current iron: draw shots

 

I currently use AP2 (62deg lie, normal length). I've recently got fit with PXG and Titleist and while the balls were more straight and better dispersed due to the clubs being forgiving (0311 & 0311XF and AP1), they were still hitting on the toe.

 

PXG suggested 1/4" longer length and 1deg flat, while Titleist said normal for all. Swingweight D1 for PXG and no mentioning from Titleist (just standard).

 

What I'm really wondering is, is this my swing flaw, or would there be some adjustments that I can make here? If I bend it more upright, then it contradicts because I'm gonna hit it more to the left. At the same time, current PXG fitting just resets itself since I'm making it longer and flattening that out again. I'm really lost here as to what would be the best solution here.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

How was lie angles done? using a lie board? if thats the case, do a ball marker test on lie angle.

D1 ? was that a value that was dialed in? using what club?

DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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If Howard or anyone can help me this will be great....

 

My main problem is a toe shot on an iron.

 

I'm 5'10, wrist to floor 34.5" (I fall in the standard category). Even my grip too (I can't recall my measurement but it was within standard), I haven't tried slightly bigger grip but I feel that may help.

Most of the time with my irons, Trackman/GCQ numbers are as follows:

 

Face Angle: 2~4deg open

Club Path: 3~8deg open

Face to Path: being slightly negative (-1~2 which is almost to the center of the target) due to face angle always being closed than club path.

Impact location: toe

Lie angle (GCQ): -3~-8 deg

Usual dispersion with current iron: draw shots

 

I currently use AP2 (62deg lie, normal length). I've recently got fit with PXG and Titleist and while the balls were more straight and better dispersed due to the clubs being forgiving (0311 & 0311XF and AP1), they were still hitting on the toe.

 

PXG suggested 1/4" longer length and 1deg flat, while Titleist said normal for all. Swingweight D1 for PXG and no mentioning from Titleist (just standard).

 

What I'm really wondering is, is this my swing flaw, or would there be some adjustments that I can make here? If I bend it more upright, then it contradicts because I'm gonna hit it more to the left. At the same time, current PXG fitting just resets itself since I'm making it longer and flattening that out again. I'm really lost here as to what would be the best solution here.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

How was lie angles done? using a lie board? if thats the case, do a ball marker test on lie angle.

D1 ? was that a value that was dialed in? using what club?

 

They both only used a lie board and it was constantly hitting on the toe. The lie angle number above is just my average lie numbers (from my GCQ). I will try to do the ball market test with my current iron (AP2) as my fitting sessions are over now.

For the weight, no PXG just said my weight was standard and on the homepage standard weight was D1. I was only fitted with a 7 iron. Thanks in advance.

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If Howard or anyone can help me this will be great....

 

My main problem is a toe shot on an iron.

 

I'm 5'10, wrist to floor 34.5" (I fall in the standard category). Even my grip too (I can't recall my measurement but it was within standard), I haven't tried slightly bigger grip but I feel that may help.

Most of the time with my irons, Trackman/GCQ numbers are as follows:

 

Face Angle: 2~4deg open

Club Path: 3~8deg open

Face to Path: being slightly negative (-1~2 which is almost to the center of the target) due to face angle always being closed than club path.

Impact location: toe

Lie angle (GCQ): -3~-8 deg

Usual dispersion with current iron: draw shots

 

I currently use AP2 (62deg lie, normal length). I've recently got fit with PXG and Titleist and while the balls were more straight and better dispersed due to the clubs being forgiving (0311 & 0311XF and AP1), they were still hitting on the toe.

 

PXG suggested 1/4" longer length and 1deg flat, while Titleist said normal for all. Swingweight D1 for PXG and no mentioning from Titleist (just standard).

 

What I'm really wondering is, is this my swing flaw, or would there be some adjustments that I can make here? If I bend it more upright, then it contradicts because I'm gonna hit it more to the left. At the same time, current PXG fitting just resets itself since I'm making it longer and flattening that out again. I'm really lost here as to what would be the best solution here.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

How was lie angles done? using a lie board? if thats the case, do a ball marker test on lie angle.

D1 ? was that a value that was dialed in? using what club?

 

They both only used a lie board and it was constantly hitting on the toe. The lie angle number above is just my average lie numbers (from my GCQ). I will try to do the ball market test with my current iron (AP2) as my fitting sessions are over now.

For the weight, no PXG just said my weight was standard and on the homepage standard weight was D1. I was only fitted with a 7 iron. Thanks in advance.

 

Your Face to Path is CLOSED like it should be for a draw, but when we use a lie board, a closed face angle at impact gives sole marks on the toe, and mislead the fitter to go upright (or stay in standard when we should have gone flat)

 

Look at this illustration - LIE CORRECT - TOP ROW - CLOSED FACE (to the right) that makes toe side impact on the sole and misleads the fitter .

1 or 2* upright is not uncommon when standard or 1 flat should have been used

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-100881-0-21466600-1402816720.jpg

 

 

Take a snap shot with your phone of this label, and simply "eye ball" when you compare to actual test result on your clubs.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1355102-open-source-face-labels-for-lie-angle-diy-lie-angle-testing/

 

Start with that, it might move impact more to the center (when going flat) but also try to add a few grams of head wgt.

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Thanks a lot Howard. With that link my area is like more than 3 deg flat since most balls are way to the left.

 

One extra question: if the solution is to flatten my lie angle (assuming that will fix the issue) as it projects now, should I not bother lengthening my iron by 1/4” as what PXG fitter suggested? Because I cant clearly tell whether its the length issue or lie angle issue for my swing, I want to at least make sure I dont make things even more complicated by bringing in different parameters as they all are dependent of each other.

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Thanks a lot Howard. With that link my area is like more than 3 deg flat since most balls are way to the left.

 

One extra question: if the solution is to flatten my lie angle (assuming that will fix the issue) as it projects now, should I not bother lengthening my iron by 1/4" as what PXG fitter suggested? Because I cant clearly tell whether its the length issue or lie angle issue for my swing, I want to at least make sure I dont make things even more complicated by bringing in different parameters as they all are dependent of each other.

 

You dont read that label correct.

Its only the angle of the line itself we shall judge, it does not matter if impact is heel or toe side, but the trend its typical like the label is made, so expect impact to be toe side when lie angle is too flat, and expect it to be heel side when too upright, but then its all those exceptions.....

 

The system i started to work from was a label that was a bit to advanced, it was meant to be able to judge both length and lie angle at the same time, but we have to many error sources (like head wgt) who can move this impact patters in a different manner than expected, but since you question both lenght and lie, ill link to it so you can read more about how we can judge the impact, both the angle and position

 

Here is how it works:

If we set a vertical line at the center of the face, you have "point zero".

Then we simply measure the distance from point zero to the impact line

2/8" out = 1* on lie or 1/8" on play length

If you find the impact mark 4/8" against the toe, go 2 flat on lie from where it is.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1355102-open-source-face-labels-for-lie-angle-diy-lie-angle-testing/page__st__30#entry13850086

 

 

Hardly any player "need" full length long irons , so if that #4 is your longest club i would not go longer, but maybe you should consider a 3/8" set up?

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Another way to judge lie angle when you are on a launch monitor is to look at SPIN AXIS

If face to path is 1.0 * closed, Spin axis shall be 3* to the left

If face to path is 1.5* closed, Spin axis shall be 4.5* to the left

if face to path is 2.0* closed, Spin axis shall be 6* to the left

 

IF the spin axis is tilted MORE than this , that tilt comes from a Lie angle too upright

1* to much upright = 3* extra on the spin axis

 

Example

Face to path closed 1.5*, and spin axis is 7.5* to the left

It should have been only 4.5* so 7.5* minus 4.5* = 3* extra tilt or 1* to much upright on lie angle

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U sound similar to me. I do have my irons 1/4 length longer. But thinking of going back to standard. It really depends on why you are hitting on the toe. For me, it’s my swing and early extension of it, so making it longer didn’t make any difference. I’m currently just focused on working on my swing.

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