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Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.

 

Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time. A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope. He wasn't a pro golfer. AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know. Go play golf instead.

 

Goose has 2 US Opens.

 

From what I gather, he grew up in SA, distinguished himself, then played most of his early career in Europe.

 

He won 14 European events, Order of Merit 2 times.

 

Then, win 7 PGA tour events.

 

Including those 2 US Opens.

 

How you figure him going to the HOF is watering it down?

 

Its their honor he is there.

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Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.

 

Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time. A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope. He wasn't a pro golfer. AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know. Go play golf instead.

 

Goose has 2 US Opens.

 

From what I gather, he grew up in SA, distinguished himself, then played most of his early career in Europe.

 

He won 14 European events, Order of Merit 2 times.

 

Then, win 7 PGA tour events.

 

Including those 2 US Opens.

 

How you figure him going to the HOF is watering it down?

 

Its their honor he is there.

I think the issue with some is that they only look at PGA Tour wins while forgetting it's the World Golf Hall of Fame and not the PGA Tour HOF. Retief deserves to be there.
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The WGHOF is just as bad as the Rock & Roll HOF.

 

As a musician and a golfer, I don't care for either or, lol...

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Congratulations to Retief. He was a great, and influential player in his prime. Can't say that I care whatsoever who's in the HoF though. The only thing I like about it is that it memorializes the ladies who started the LPGA with nothing, and the minorities breaking into the PGA. As far as a legit HoF, it's hard to take seriously. Their legacy will forever be their "mistakes" and their lowering of the bar. Golf is also, unlike most other sports, one that doesn't forget about its heroes. We're reminded about them constantly. The real greats will never be forgotten, and we don't need a HoF for that, thankfully.

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Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?

 

If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.

 

I rate Wadkins above Couples. Hype Versus results

 

I think I appreciate Lanny's talent more now than I did when he was in his prime. His cockiness put me off then, but it doesn't now. Having been a California boy growing up in the late 60s/early 70s, we didn't see that type of passive-aggression in competition as much. Lanny was a stud though. I'm still surprised that he didn't win more.

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Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.

 

Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time. A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope. He wasn't a pro golfer. AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know. Go play golf instead.

 

Goose has 2 US Opens.

 

From what I gather, he grew up in SA, distinguished himself, then played most of his early career in Europe.

 

He won 14 European events, Order of Merit 2 times.

 

Then, win 7 PGA tour events.

 

Including those 2 US Opens.

 

How you figure him going to the HOF is watering it down?

 

Its their honor he is there.

I think the issue with some is that they only look at PGA Tour wins while forgetting it's the World Golf Hall of Fame and not the PGA Tour HOF. Retief deserves to be there.

 

Yep, many think Euro tour wins are a step below the US tour.

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Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.

 

Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time. A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope. He wasn't a pro golfer. AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know. Go play golf instead.

 

Goose has 2 US Opens.

 

From what I gather, he grew up in SA, distinguished himself, then played most of his early career in Europe.

 

He won 14 European events, Order of Merit 2 times.

 

Then, win 7 PGA tour events.

 

Including those 2 US Opens.

 

How you figure him going to the HOF is watering it down?

 

Its their honor he is there.

I think the issue with some is that they only look at PGA Tour wins while forgetting it's the World Golf Hall of Fame and not the PGA Tour HOF. Retief deserves to be there.

 

Yep, many think Euro tour wins are a step below the US tour.

 

They are, with the exception of a couple tournaments.

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The WGHOF is just as bad as the Rock & Roll HOF.

 

As a musician and a golfer, I don't care for either or, lol...

 

Similar to the R&R HOF, the golf HOF needs to induct people every year. So, naturally, the pool to choose from gets thinner and thinner.

 

Just visited the golf HOF last week and had a great time.

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The WGHOF is just as bad as the Rock & Roll HOF.

 

As a musician and a golfer, I don't care for either or, lol...

 

You can debate all day who should be in or out, and why. Fair enough. But both of these places are a great historical legacy of what they are about. It’s more than just a shrine to honoring a few people for being famous. Or almost famous.

 

Sure there are politics involved, but not everyone is Elvis or Arnie. Some people who aren’t call King need to be let in.

 

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Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?

 

If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.

 

I rate Wadkins above Couples. Hype Versus results

 

I think I appreciate Lanny's talent more now than I did when he was in his prime. His cockiness put me off then, but it doesn't now. Having been a California boy growing up in the late 60s/early 70s, we didn't see that type of passive-aggression in competition as much. Lanny was a stud though. I'm still surprised that he didn't win more.

 

He blew alot of tournaments down the stretch going for broke.Never saw a pin he didnt like. Uber aggressive but uber talented as well. people forget the day miller shot 63 at oakmont he shot 65 with 2 eagles and i think 2 bogeys. he was entertaining and rubbed alot of people the wrong way. Started missing alot of short putts in his late thirties as i recall. in the mix for alot of majors.When he was on hed win tournaments by 6-7-8 shots running away

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Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?

 

If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.

 

I rate Wadkins above Couples. Hype Versus results

 

I think I appreciate Lanny's talent more now than I did when he was in his prime. His cockiness put me off then, but it doesn't now. Having been a California boy growing up in the late 60s/early 70s, we didn't see that type of passive-aggression in competition as much. Lanny was a stud though. I'm still surprised that he didn't win more.

 

He blew alot of tournaments down the stretch going for broke.Never saw a pin he didnt like. Uber aggressive but uber talented as well. people forget the day miller shot 63 at oakmont he shot 65 with 2 eagles and i think 2 bogeys. he was entertaining and rubbed alot of people the wrong way. Started missing alot of short putts in his late thirties as i recall. in the mix for alot of majors.When he was on hed win tournaments by 6-7-8 shots running away

That '73 Open was interesting. Neither Miller not Wadkins was in the top 10 entering the final round.

 

Which brings up a question... Why is it that a final round comeback to win is heralded as a great achievement but a great final round to get into the top ten is derided as a backdoor top ten?

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HOF - what are the latest qualifications?

 

A good haircut, a few wins and the ability to do a card trick?

 

 

 

CASE IN POINT - Fred Couples

Like his game and loved watching him play but he should NOT be in the Hall.

 

He is about 54th on the pga tour win list. And there are 160 in the hall of fame. How does he not fit in? Masters winner. 62 professional wins.

 

Hes rightfully in the HOF

 

 

Only 1 major, that he barely won. Fred got in due to popularity.

 

Another guy to think about - if handsome Adam Scott retires with his current number of wins and only 1 major, I would say the same thing about him.

He stays out.

 

 

 

For player nominees, I think the HOF should be a minimum of:

 

2-majors with 15 wins minimum

- or -

1-major and 20 PGA wins

 

among the current Hall of Famers eliminated

 

Harry Cooper 31 wins 0 majors

Tom Kite 19/1 (Dustin Johnson would need one more win to qualify)

Tommy Bolt and Fred Couples 15/1

Jock Hutchison 14/2

Ken Venturi 14/1

Roberto De Vicenzo 8/1 (I assume it's 15 PGA Tour wins, these international players will clear 15 overall wins)

David Graham 8/2

Lawson Little 8/1

Chi Chi Rodriguez 8/0

Retief Goosen 7/2

 

You could take all of those players out of the Hall of Fame, and it wouldn't bother me a bit. They are all very fine players; but the Hall should be reserved for the very best. The qualifications should be, and should have been, higher.

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HOF - what are the latest qualifications?

 

A good haircut, a few wins and the ability to do a card trick?

 

 

 

CASE IN POINT - Fred Couples

Like his game and loved watching him play but he should NOT be in the Hall.

 

He is about 54th on the pga tour win list. And there are 160 in the hall of fame. How does he not fit in? Masters winner. 62 professional wins.

 

Hes rightfully in the HOF

 

 

Only 1 major, that he barely won. Fred got in due to popularity.

 

Another guy to think about - if handsome Adam Scott retires with his current number of wins and only 1 major, I would say the same thing about him.

He stays out.

 

 

 

For player nominees, I think the HOF should be a minimum of:

 

2-majors with 15 wins minimum

- or -

1-major and 20 PGA wins

 

among the current Hall of Famers eliminated

 

Harry Cooper 31 wins 0 majors

Tom Kite 19/1 (Dustin Johnson would need one more win to qualify)

Tommy Bolt and Fred Couples 15/1

Jock Hutchison 14/2

Ken Venturi 14/1

Roberto De Vicenzo 8/1 (I assume it's 15 PGA Tour wins, these international players will clear 15 overall wins)

David Graham 8/2

Lawson Little 8/1

Chi Chi Rodriguez 8/0

Retief Goosen 7/2

 

You could take all of those players out of the Hall of Fame, and it wouldn't bother me a bit. They are all very fine players; but the Hall should be reserved for the very best. The qualifications should be, and should have been, higher.

First, I disagree completely. This is the World Golf Hall of Fame not that of the PGA Tour.

 

Little won two each British and US Amateurs. Does that get him entry? Do Goosen's Euro tour wins help?

 

You seem to desire a hof with about 20 players. So we'll enshrine one every decade or so?

 

And if you cut it to 20 you still have the same problem though. Jack and Tiger are so far ahead of everyone else maybe a hof with just those two would be better?

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The WGHOF is just as bad as the Rock & Roll HOF.

 

As a musician and a golfer, I don't care for either or, lol...

 

You can debate all day who should be in or out, and why. Fair enough. But both of these places are a great historical legacy of what they are about. It’s more than just a shrine to honoring a few people for being famous. Or almost famous.

 

Sure there are politics involved, but not everyone is Elvis or Arnie. Some people who aren’t call King need to be let in.

 

I think the big difference is that if the golf HOF wanted to copy the RR HOF they would have to include curling, disc golf, archery and several equestrian events.

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HOF - what are the latest qualifications?

 

A good haircut, a few wins and the ability to do a card trick?

 

 

 

CASE IN POINT - Fred Couples

Like his game and loved watching him play but he should NOT be in the Hall.

Couldn't agree more!!

 

However if bein a "Playa" counts towards the hall, the Fredster's the creme de la creme of his generation, lol

 

The Ladies loved those dimples and smile😊
 

If he hadn't of givin Maddie his phone number on a ball(which I airmailed from our 1 tee out over #5 FWí ½í¸), I'd probably have a man crush on him, lol. I matured the following season and would've handled it differentlyí ½í¸í ½í¸

 

I'm really happy for Retief, Class Gentleman and he answered the bell í ½í´ twice in the toughest test of all!!

 

Stay well Fergs👊
 

My Best,

RP

 

 

 

Richard -

 

I almost dropped your name in my first post in order to provide my "opinion" with some sort of "foundation" But, I knew you would/could speak for yourself and chime in. Always liked Fred's game but couldn't stand his "lack" of work ethic.

 

 

Fred Couples - a player, not a famer.

 

 

Hmmmmmm - That would be an excellent title for a new thread.

 

"PLAYER OR FAMER"

 

 

 

As for me being an old guy. Sorry - just crossed into my 40's.

And from what I heard the 40's are the new 30's.

 

I had you pegged for early 60s! LOL

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HOF - what are the latest qualifications?

 

A good haircut, a few wins and the ability to do a card trick?

 

 

 

CASE IN POINT - Fred Couples

Like his game and loved watching him play but he should NOT be in the Hall.

 

He is about 54th on the pga tour win list. And there are 160 in the hall of fame. How does he not fit in? Masters winner. 62 professional wins.

 

Hes rightfully in the HOF

 

 

Only 1 major, that he barely won. Fred got in due to popularity.

 

Another guy to think about - if handsome Adam Scott retires with his current number of wins and only 1 major, I would say the same thing about him.

He stays out.

 

 

 

For player nominees, I think the HOF should be a minimum of:

 

2-majors with 15 wins minimum

- or -

1-major and 20 PGA wins

 

among the current Hall of Famers eliminated

 

Harry Cooper 31 wins 0 majors

Tom Kite 19/1 (Dustin Johnson would need one more win to qualify)

Tommy Bolt and Fred Couples 15/1

Jock Hutchison 14/2

Ken Venturi 14/1

Roberto De Vicenzo 8/1 (I assume it's 15 PGA Tour wins, these international players will clear 15 overall wins)

David Graham 8/2

Lawson Little 8/1

Chi Chi Rodriguez 8/0

Retief Goosen 7/2

 

You could take all of those players out of the Hall of Fame, and it wouldn't bother me a bit. They are all very fine players; but the Hall should be reserved for the very best. The qualifications should be, and should have been, higher.

 

Just speaking on RGs behalf.

 

Not an American. Goes from SA to the Euro Tour, wins 14 times and top money performer 2 times.

 

In 2001 wins order of merit and a US Open.

 

Won on both tours in 5 consecutive years.

 

Won 6 times on the PGA Tour in 5 years including a 2nd US Open.

 

Thats an excellent career. Cant judge him stricly on PGA Tour wins. If he was born in the US, hed have 2 Majors (or more) and over 15 PGA tour wins, no problem.

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Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.

 

Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time. A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope. He wasn't a pro golfer. AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know. Go play golf instead.

 

Goose has 2 US Opens.

 

From what I gather, he grew up in SA, distinguished himself, then played most of his early career in Europe.

 

He won 14 European events, Order of Merit 2 times.

 

Then, win 7 PGA tour events.

 

Including those 2 US Opens.

 

How you figure him going to the HOF is watering it down?

 

Its their honor he is there.

I think the issue with some is that they only look at PGA Tour wins while forgetting it's the World Golf Hall of Fame and not the PGA Tour HOF. Retief deserves to be there.

 

Yep, many think Euro tour wins are a step below the US tour.

 

They are, but for the purposes of the World Golf Hall of Fame they count the same. Also counting the same to get the total of 15 are wins on the following tours: Japan, Sunshine, Asian and Australasian.

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I guess I'll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1

 

Listen it was deserved.I think he won like 3-4 times in 18 months including the British and finished like 2nd or 3 in back to back US opens. If he could putt with any regularity hed have 3-4 majors and 15 wins easily

 

He got a bit lucky in that his 9.9 average points was enough (it usually takes > 10), but I don't have a problem with him getting to #1.

I just think that doesn't automatically make him a Hall of Famer.

 

I dont disagree with you on that premise, i was just saying he earned the ranking through his play.it wasnt a fluke

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Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?

 

If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.

 

I rate Wadkins above Couples. Hype Versus results

 

I think I appreciate Lanny's talent more now than I did when he was in his prime. His cockiness put me off then, but it doesn't now. Having been a California boy growing up in the late 60s/early 70s, we didn't see that type of passive-aggression in competition as much. Lanny was a stud though. I'm still surprised that he didn't win more.

 

He blew alot of tournaments down the stretch going for broke.Never saw a pin he didnt like. Uber aggressive but uber talented as well. people forget the day miller shot 63 at oakmont he shot 65 with 2 eagles and i think 2 bogeys. he was entertaining and rubbed alot of people the wrong way. Started missing alot of short putts in his late thirties as i recall. in the mix for alot of majors.When he was on hed win tournaments by 6-7-8 shots running away

That '73 Open was interesting. Neither Miller not Wadkins was in the top 10 entering the final round.

 

Which brings up a question... Why is it that a final round comeback to win is heralded as a great achievement but a great final round to get into the top ten is derided as a backdoor top ten?

 

Shil, back then nobody shot 63s in US opens let alone at oakmont let alone on sunday to win the whole thing. Not all top 10s are equal. Back door finishes are made by almost everyone so its not derided just that its pointed when the player never really contended. its a different pressure thats for sure. ask anybody whos played competitively.

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I think the criticism of the HOF is well deserved. If you think about if all the members were still alive and you were seating them for a dinner, do you sit Fred Couples at the same table as Ben Hogan, Gene Sarazen, or Tom Watson? I wouldn't.

 

What might possibly "fix" this low-bar travesty, is inserting a "Legends" category where candidates would have to clear a much higher bar to be nominated. That way, the committee can give a nod to the feel-goods and still have a reason for existing.

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Shil, back then nobody shot 63s in US opens let alone at oakmont let alone on sunday to win the whole thing. Not all top 10s are equal. Back door finishes are made by almost everyone so its not derided just that its pointed when the player never really contended. its a different pressure thats for sure. ask anybody whos played competitively.

I really wasn't discussing Miller's round, just using it as illustration of a great final round that is rightly applauded. You brought up Lanny's great 65. And it was a good round no doubt but based on your post it was easier because of a lack of pressure. Similar to the 65 of Steve Spray five years earlier.

Tour golf is four rounds. They all count. I have just never understood the backdoor comments because a guy has a good final round to finish ahead of the guy that is applauded for a valiant effort but fails in the last.

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I think the criticism of the HOF is well deserved. If you think about if all the members were still alive and you were seating them for a dinner, do you sit Fred Couples at the same table as Ben Hogan, Gene Sarazen, or Tom Watson? I wouldn't.

 

What might possibly "fix" this low-bar travesty, is inserting a "Legends" category where candidates would have to clear a much higher bar to be nominated. That way, the committee can give a nod to the feel-goods and still have a reason for existing.

So just to start... We have a table up front for Tiger and Jack... Then a big table off to the side with the next ten or so that are pretty equal... Then an even bigger table with the next twenty..... Then an even bigger table-and so on. Of course this is the World Golf Hall of Fame and not all are players but very important to the history of the game. What are they? Wait staff?

All Hall of Fames have this issue. Is it just the very very very elite or is it all the best? If you use 20&2 as a minimum what happens in a century? They're running out of room...I can see it now "we better change it to 30&3 to clear space". :)

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I think the criticism of the HOF is well deserved. If you think about if all the members were still alive and you were seating them for a dinner, do you sit Fred Couples at the same table as Ben Hogan, Gene Sarazen, or Tom Watson? I wouldn't.

 

What might possibly "fix" this low-bar travesty, is inserting a "Legends" category where candidates would have to clear a much higher bar to be nominated. That way, the committee can give a nod to the feel-goods and still have a reason for existing.

So just to start... We have a table up front for Tiger and Jack... Then a big table off to the side with the next ten or so that are pretty equal... Then an even bigger table with the next twenty..... Then an even bigger table-and so on. Of course this is the World Golf Hall of Fame and not all are players but very important to the history of the game. What are they? Wait staff?

All Hall of Fames have this issue. Is it just the very very very elite or is it all the best? If you use 20&2 as a minimum what happens in a century? They're running out of room...I can see it now "we better change it to 30&3 to clear space". :)

 

I like how the least important part of what I was talking about was all you understood from my post.

 

I have a sign laying around for you somewhere... ;)

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Shil, back then nobody shot 63s in US opens let alone at oakmont let alone on sunday to win the whole thing. Not all top 10s are equal. Back door finishes are made by almost everyone so its not derided just that its pointed when the player never really contended. its a different pressure thats for sure. ask anybody whos played competitively.

I really wasn't discussing Miller's round, just using it as illustration of a great final round that is rightly applauded. You brought up Lanny's great 65. And it was a good round no doubt but based on your post it was easier because of a lack of pressure. Similar to the 65 of Steve Spray five years earlier.

Tour golf is four rounds. They all count. I have just never understood the backdoor comments because a guy has a good final round to finish ahead of the guy that is applauded for a valiant effort but fails in the last.

 

Youve never played competitve golf then if you think all rounds are equal.ask any pro if a 65 in the last 2 groups is the same as a 65 when you start the final round T15-25th.Its an inescapable fact. Its not disrespectful to point it out. i think the 65 i noted of wadkins happened when he was 22- 23 and miller was what? 24-25 with his 63? it was a big deal considering the US open the year before was a bloodbath on sunday with the best score being i believe a 75?

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2 majors as a minimum should be the qualifying mark . Majors are Majors and are much harder to win . You might fluke one Major but you do not fluke 2 of them .

Now getting down to Retief 2 US Opens and has won all over the world and a true Gentleman to boot . What more could the Hall of Fame want ?

 

*cough* Andy North * cough*

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Shil, back then nobody shot 63s in US opens let alone at oakmont let alone on sunday to win the whole thing. Not all top 10s are equal. Back door finishes are made by almost everyone so its not derided just that its pointed when the player never really contended. its a different pressure thats for sure. ask anybody whos played competitively.

I really wasn't discussing Miller's round, just using it as illustration of a great final round that is rightly applauded. You brought up Lanny's great 65. And it was a good round no doubt but based on your post it was easier because of a lack of pressure. Similar to the 65 of Steve Spray five years earlier.

Tour golf is four rounds. They all count. I have just never understood the backdoor comments because a guy has a good final round to finish ahead of the guy that is applauded for a valiant effort but fails in the last.

 

Youve never played competitve golf then if you think all rounds are equal.ask any pro if a 65 in the last 2 groups is the same as a 65 when you start the final round T15-25th.Its an inescapable fact. Its not disrespectful to point it out. i think the 65 i noted of wadkins happened when he was 22- 23 and miller was what? 24-25 with his 63? it was a big deal considering the US open the year before was a bloodbath on sunday with the best score being i believe a 75?

That wasn't my point really though. Of course a 65 under the gun is better than a 65 to get the so called back door high finish. No disputing that. I was just pointing out that Lanny's 65 was the epitome of a good round with little pressure. US Open or not.

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Titleist TS3 19°  hybrid Tensei Blue/Titleist TSR3 24° Diamana Ahina

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Vokey SM8 50° F & 56° M SM9 60°M

Cameron Newport w/ flow neck by Lamont/ Cameron Del Mar

 



 

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I think the criticism of the HOF is well deserved. If you think about if all the members were still alive and you were seating them for a dinner, do you sit Fred Couples at the same table as Ben Hogan, Gene Sarazen, or Tom Watson? I wouldn't.

 

What might possibly "fix" this low-bar travesty, is inserting a "Legends" category where candidates would have to clear a much higher bar to be nominated. That way, the committee can give a nod to the feel-goods and still have a reason for existing.

So just to start... We have a table up front for Tiger and Jack... Then a big table off to the side with the next ten or so that are pretty equal... Then an even bigger table with the next twenty..... Then an even bigger table-and so on. Of course this is the World Golf Hall of Fame and not all are players but very important to the history of the game. What are they? Wait staff?

All Hall of Fames have this issue. Is it just the very very very elite or is it all the best? If you use 20&2 as a minimum what happens in a century? They're running out of room...I can see it now "we better change it to 30&3 to clear space". :)

 

I like how the least important part of what I was talking about was all you understood from my post.

 

I have a sign laying around for you somewhere... ;)

Reading your pay the first time had me thinking you agreed with a previous post that we should have very few in the hall. Seemed of.

 

Upon further review you're correct. I'll try to not rush replies.

 

Mea culpa.

Titleist TSR4 9° Tensei AV White 65

Titleist TSi3 strong 3w 13.5° Tensei AV White 70

Titleist TS3 19°  hybrid Tensei Blue/Titleist TSR3 24° Diamana Ahina

Titleist T150 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125

Vokey SM8 50° F & 56° M SM9 60°M

Cameron Newport w/ flow neck by Lamont/ Cameron Del Mar

 



 

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2 majors as a minimum should be the qualifying mark . Majors are Majors and are much harder to win . You might fluke one Major but you do not fluke 2 of them .

Now getting down to Retief 2 US Opens and has won all over the world and a true Gentleman to boot . What more could the Hall of Fame want ?

 

*cough* Andy North * cough*

 

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