Who mills Byron Morgan heads

golfgolfguru · Feb 28, 2015

Who mills the heads for Byron? I know he adds the finishing touches but who actually makes the heads? I’ve searched and found nothing just thought it would be interesting to know.

ChronicSlicer · Oct 22, 2016

golfgolfguru wrote:

Who mills the heads for Byron? I know he adds the finishing touches but who actually makes the heads? I’ve searched and found nothing just thought it would be interesting to know.

I`d be curious who actually makes the heads for all the "custom" putter guys.

GolfWRX · Jan 1, 2005

Scotty1140 · Jul 1, 2011

Don’t quote me on it, but at some point I remember reading somewhere on this site that K-Tech milled (some? all?) heads for Byron.

LionGolfer · Sep 13, 2005

I'm interested to know as well.

Need4spd · Apr 16, 2008

In other words, they don’t do it themselves? Pardon my ignorance if this is the case.

golfluvzme · May 25, 2005

No, most putter companies do not operate a CNC machine, on-site. The cost would be prohibitive for most of them who operate on a small budget. Some have the backing of generous fund sources and are able to run that sort of an operation, but most are limited. Or, they have learned that out-sourcing to companies who specialize in CNC machining can be a huge benefit, cost-wise.

Some of the smaller companies are able to out-source what is needed for CNC models and still create completely hand-milled pieces using a Bridgeport vertical mill, or similar machine. I've heard that there is a guy in Arizona who is trying to blend this split-method, but that could be just a silly rumor.

One Mann's Opinion,

LaMont in AZ

tim583 · Jun 10, 2013

Ha that guy would be THE MAN

GolfWRX · Jan 1, 2005

LionGolfer · Sep 13, 2005

for someone like Lump where he has created some really unconventional head shapes, doesn't he mill in house? It can't be more cost effective to send a one off out to cnc.. cost of programming and setup for any oneoff can't be effective?

What about Nead? I think slighter milled his own heads as well? Any one know?

I can't help but define a true custom putter maker as one milling his own original designed heads from raw billets or at the very least designing his own head shapes even if cnc is outsourced. If one is using a blank designed by someone else, even if one rounds off the edge, puts his own face mill etc, it's in a way just a modification of someone else's original design?

This is a great topic and it'll be great to know who really makes putters from scratch.

Orlandogolfguru · Mar 2, 2014

golfluvzme wrote:

No, most putter companies do not operate a CNC machine, on-site. The cost would be prohibitive for most of them who operate on a small budget. Some have the backing of generous fund sources and are able to run that sort of an operation, but most are limited. Or, they have learned that out-sourcing to companies who specialize in CNC machining can be a huge benefit, cost-wise.

Some of the smaller companies are able to out-source what is needed for CNC models and still create completely hand-milled pieces using a Bridgeport vertical mill, or similar machine. I've heard that there is a guy in Arizona who is trying to blend this split-method, but that could be just a silly rumor.

One Mann's Opinion,

LaMont in AZ

This is the only answer needed.

ESP · Jun 27, 2011

Not sure about Byron but Bettinardi mills in house

ebrasmus21 · May 13, 2013

How much of an idiot does it make me if I thought the majority of putters were milled in-house? This has seriously kind of rocked my world, this thread.

NicholasP · Jan 26, 2006

ebrasmus21 wrote:

How much of an idiot does it make me if I thought the majority of putters were milled in-house? This has seriously kind of rocked my world, this thread.

One of the reasons I was so impressed visiting the Bettinardi Studio.....milled in house. Pretty sure I have heard the make other items for customers.....cant remember specifics though

GolfWRX · Jan 1, 2005

Big Ben · Apr 21, 2006

If the design is created outsourcing the machine work is no big deal. The programming is by far the hardest part. From a tolerance perspective a putter is very simple project for these machines. Has no bearing on the quality of the finished product which I’m sure is done in house. A CNC (or many which is usually the case in a modern machine shop) is a workhorse designed to run and run a lot or it’s loosing money. BB

LionGolfer · Sep 13, 2005

Big Ben wrote:

If the design is created outsourcing the machine work is no big deal. The programming is by far the hardest part. A putter is very simple project for these machines. Has no bearing on the finished product which I’m sure is done in house. A CNC (or many which is usually the case in a modern machine shop) is a workhorse designed to run and run a lot or it’s loosing money. BB

Yup. Agreed. I'm wondering in these instances, is the head design original in terms of weight,cg, moi,balance,face loft etc. If yes, outsourcing the grind work seems a no brainer.

That said, for a small boutique shop like xenon, I don't think he has the volume to realize the cost benefits of outsourcing. Maybe that's why lump does things off a small hand mill per an article on him a few years back. That adds to the charm of custom and part of a full custom definition for me.

Double Dodger · Jun 18, 2017

ESP wrote:

Not sure about Byron but Bettinardi mills in house

I’m thinking Bettinardi ‘quietly’ mills many outsourced putters.

golfluvzme · May 25, 2005

LionGolfer wrote:

for someone like Lump where he has created some really unconventional head shapes, doesn't he mill in house? It can't be more cost effective to send a one off out to cnc.. cost of programming and setup for any oneoff can't be effective?

What about Nead? I think slighter milled his own heads as well? Any one know?

I can't help but define a true custom putter maker as one milling his own original designed heads from raw billets or at the very least designing his own head shapes even if cnc is outsourced. If one is using a blank designed by someone else, even if one rounds off the edge, puts his own face mill etc, it's in a way just a modification of someone else's original design?

This is a great topic and it'll be great to know who really makes putters from scratch.

Lumpy is one of the good guys who mills a large percentage of his pieces, right on site on his manual mill. He also has out-sourced a model that is CNC milled as a one-piece head with a plumbers neck that makes it much quicker for him to build for guys looking for that design. Business-wise, it makes perfect sense. Guys who desire a truly hand milled putter can get it, while guys looking for a Xenon putter, but not looking to spend what a handmade should cost, can still support Lumpy's operation.

Tom Slighter was doing all of his CNC machine work in-house, for the last few years. He was very dedicated and invested a sizable amount into his machines and I believe that he had contacts that did some of his programming, when needed. He is an incredible craftsman and has earned his retirement. Truly, another of the good guys in the putter game.

Gene Nead? He is without equal when it comes to anything metal related. Welding, machining, fabricating and designing are just a few of his exceptional skills. I believe that the only thing that kept him from being the premier putter maker (which I believe he honestly is) to the masses, was the lack of having a rep to share his work and leave him to create. If you have ever seen Gene's Mokume' Gane' putters, you have to know that the workmanship and beauty of those putters far surpass anything that has been milled in the past ten years...........except the Byron Morgan Damascus DH89s.

You are correct in your reasoning with the CNC and one-off pieces. It is extremely rare that the cost of programming and fixturing for a single piece is offset by the sales price of a single putter head. I have to assume that there is such a putter, I just have no idea what it is, off the top of my head.

"I can't help but define a true custom putter maker as one milling his own original designed heads from raw billets or at the very least designing his own head shapes even if cnc is outsourced. If one is using a blank designed by someone else, even if one rounds off the edge, puts his own face mill etc, it's in a way just a modification of someone else's original design?" This may be referring to the constant making of the Anser-style heads, I am not sure. If so, yes, IMHO when you take an Anser head to a CNC shop and ask them to duplicate it, you are not automatically a putter maker. But, it happens with startling regularity and is always justified as "I have to in order to keep the doors open." I won't open that can of worms, but that was never my desire, just to sell putters.

Bettinardi has milled putters for a lot of makers, agreed. Cameron moved to him for reasons that were Scotty's own and left a SoCal machine shop that had been doing his work for a while. Bettinardi's machines, programmers and designers are some of the best in the business, although putters are still less than 50% of what RJB's operation produces, revenue-wise, I believe.

I hope that this sheds just a touch more light on a subject that is not exactly where this thread was intended to go, but I think we are still "on-topic" to a point.

Lots of stories have been told and re-told about how this putter world works. It is fun to hear them and quietly know a few cool stories, myself.

Have a great night/week all.

LaMont in AZ

Circaflex · Feb 3, 2015

I am so pleased we have LaMont here at Golfwrx. You sir are a legend and continuously spread knowledge.

GolfWRX · Jan 1, 2005

LionGolfer · Sep 13, 2005

Thanks for all the insights Lamont. Much appreciated and educational!

Betti mills for Scotty?! Wow!

benno_r · Jul 12, 2014

LionGolfer wrote:

Thanks for all the insights Lamont. Much appreciated and educational!

Betti mills for Scotty?! Wow!

He used to back in the Tel3 days and before. Hasn't for a while now.

Lajosi machines fully in house as well. Like Betti, I don't think it's his main stream of income.

rbj69 · Jul 11, 2016

I wonder who cnc evnroll putters with the different sized lines for the sweet spot

golfluvzme · May 25, 2005

rbj69 wrote:

I wonder who cnc evnroll putters with the different sized lines for the sweet spot

It is the same shop that mills Piretti, Whitlam and does some contract work for a maker out of Chicago.

The owner of that shop is an incredible CNC talent and has done some of his own putters that were absolutely incredible in the engraving.

LaMont in AZ

th6252 · Jul 10, 2005

benno_r wrote:

LionGolfer wrote:

Thanks for all the insights Lamont. Much appreciated and educational!

Betti mills for Scotty?! Wow!

He used to back in the Tel3 days and before. Hasn't for a while now.

Lajosi machines fully in house as well. Like Betti, I don't think it's his main stream of income.

pretty sure putters are a small side job for kari which would make sense as to why his custom putters take a while to make. worth the wait though.

GolfWRX · Jan 1, 2005

ChronicSlicer · Oct 22, 2016

Pretty awesome to find out your "custom" $1000 baby wasn`t likely built by the actual name on the putter. I hope they at least do the paint-fill in house. lol

golfluvzme · May 25, 2005

ChronicSlicer wrote:

Pretty awesome to find out your "custom" $1000 baby wasn`t likely built by the actual name on the putter. I hope they at least do the paint-fill in house. lol

You don't really want to know the truth to that, do you?

LaMont in AZ

ChronicSlicer · Oct 22, 2016

golfluvzme wrote:

ChronicSlicer wrote:

Pretty awesome to find out your "custom" $1000 baby wasn`t likely built by the actual name on the putter. I hope they at least do the paint-fill in house. lol

You don't really want to know the truth to that, do you?

LaMont in AZ

Sure, if you don`t mind sharing.

BYK · Jan 12, 2014

This thread gets better and better

please share more stories LaMont

ChristopherMcDonald · May 12, 2014

this thread is JUICY.

golfluvzme wrote:

rbj69 wrote:

I wonder who cnc evnroll putters with the different sized lines for the sweet spot

It is the same shop that mills Piretti, Whitlam and does some contract work for a maker out of Chicago.

The owner of that shop is an incredible CNC talent and has done some of his own putters that were absolutely incredible in the engraving.

LaMont in AZ

This thread is JUICY. Any chance we can know this maker in Chicago? Got a vendor friend (wood flooring industry) who's a golfer and does metal work, would love to get him a blank to play with

GolfWRX · Jan 1, 2005

LionGolfer · Sep 13, 2005

golfluvzme wrote:

ChronicSlicer wrote:

Pretty awesome to find out your "custom" $1000 baby wasn`t likely built by the actual name on the putter. I hope they at least do the paint-fill in house. lol

You don't really want to know the truth to that, do you?

LaMont in AZ

If you can share Lamont. At least for me, I'd like to know exactly what I'm paying for.

rbj69 · Jul 11, 2016

Basically just buy the under $400 putter and you get you money's worth I love my evnroll er 1.2 and it unseated some I never thought it would

tangojay · Aug 31, 2006

ChronicSlicer wrote:

Pretty awesome to find out your "custom" $1000 baby wasn`t likely built by the actual name on the putter. I hope they at least do the paint-fill in house. lol

Being a glass half full type, one thing I can tell you what is pretty incredible ,,,

To see your putter being shaped (Bombara) and stamped by the by the name (Byron) on the putter, and that name asking for your input,,

GolfWRX · Jan 1, 2005

delmer · Nov 13, 2018

This thread is interesting. For the people who drop big coin on a putter finding out who actually made it seems like finding out what is actually in a hot dog.

Who mills Byron Morgan heads

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