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Isn't the hammerhead technology their response to jailbreak?

 

 

if so they need to rethink it ... Rogue blows it away on off center ball speed.. i mean not even close

 

The only thing Rogue blows is Logan.

 

As far as the Rogue being head above heels better than the M3 or M4 on off center ball speeds unvaldiated. I've seen just as good of ball speed from the M3 and M4 on off center hits as I do with the Rogue Subzero, Epic, G400. All are the same.

 

Only validation I need for me was the 4 hours over two days of trackman data I produced testing the m3 m4 vs my m1. Then m4 vs rogue and rogue sub zero. Rogue whipped them all. Especially m3 and subzero.

 

Just remember, just because you experienced better ball speeds with Rogue on off center hits does not mean that its the case for everyone.

 

The Rogue SZ is back in my bag, I love it, but I had an M3 440 prior to that and it blew my Rogue out of the water on off center hits and distance. Only reason I went back to the Rogue is because I hit more fairways with it.

So in my experience, the M3 440 is much faster off the face but just not as straight.

 

I’m talking rogue . Regular old rogue. Subzero is right there with m3-m4 on off center hits.

 

I get what you’re saying. But I don’t think it’s true this time. Rogue and G400 max are head and shoulders above TM this time in forgiveness . You should give the rogue a try vs subzero. Unless you just can’t get spin down any other way , you’re giving up some with subzero. I’m a high speed high spin player who hits down on it. And we found a combo of loft and shaft that took me to 2200 rpm average coming from 2800 average with a tour 17 m1 Head.

 

Not dissing Tm. I’m playing their putter and the 17 m1 is the best 3 wood I’ve ever owned. But they have some ground to make up in my opinion on rogue in the Driver dept.

Callaway epic max LS 9* GD-M9003 7x 

TM Sim2 max tour  16* GD  ADHD 8x 

srixon zx 19* elements 9F5T 

Cobra king SZ 25.5* KBS TD cat 5 70 

TM p7mc 5-pw Mmt125tx 

Mizuno T22 raw 52-56-60 s400

LAB Mezz Max armlock 

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Tiger hit a draw today... The club promotes both ball flights!!!

 

But seriously, what the hell else can they fix or change and put into the driver?

 

Platinum or 24k gold

 

Typical Seattle citizen answer haha. That's pretty funny. All I can imagine is Taylormade really working on aerodynamics the same as Ping and Callaway.

 

You have twist face, adjustable weights, adjustable lofts / lie angles, and some what of an answer to "Jail Break" tech with their "hammerhead" slot. I'm really at a loss for what can be worked on.

That's why they're the engineers ?

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It does lead to a good question. TM ruled the metal woods roost for at least the last 10-12 years. Checking with my local stores (big box chains), the big winners the last two years were Callaway and Ping.

 

Do you guys think this is a temporary blip, or is TM in a bit of trouble - they definitely have to find some way to recapture mind-share.

 

 

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It does lead to a good question. TM ruled the metal woods roost for at least the last 10-12 years. Checking with my local stores (big box chains), the big winners the last two years were Callaway and Ping.

 

Do you guys think this is a temporary blip, or is TM in a bit of trouble - they definitely have to find some way to recapture mind-share.

 

The 2016 M1/M2 line was amazing. 2017 M1/M2 was also amazing, but the color scheme was funky, and no-one really had a need to switch. I personally feel like the M3/M4 hasn't done as well, but I think it's a temporary blip.

 

Personal anecdote, my 2018 M3 440 head has more spin on it than any titleist driver on the market. If next years driver still has the twist face tech, I'll probably go back to my Nike Vapor Fly Pro. Shouldn't have upgraded from the '17 M1 440, it was a monster.

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Hopefully they get rid of the twist face. Tiger basically proved that to be total crap.

Tiger doesn't miss the centre of the face, his face to path is just off now and again. Twist face is meant to help on off centre hits (rubbish).

 

To be honest despite all the noise it seemed legit to me. Gear effect is acknowledged as being necessary, so a bit more gear effect cant be a bad thing. Trouble is people expected yards rather than inches in correction. It might be those odd occasions you find yourself in the semi rough, rather than long grass, when TF has done its thing ?

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Hopefully they get rid of the twist face. Tiger basically proved that to be total crap.

Tiger doesn't miss the centre of the face, his face to path is just off now and again. Twist face is meant to help on off centre hits (rubbish).

 

To be honest despite all the noise it seemed legit to me. Gear effect is acknowledged as being necessary, so a bit more gear effect cant be a bad thing. Trouble is people expected yards rather than inches in correction. It might be those odd occasions you find yourself in the semi rough, rather than long grass, when TF has done its thing ?

 

I posted similar observations in the other TM thread. For whatever reason, the M3/4 range has been a massive flop for TM.

 

I believe there IS something to Twistface though. I hate the looks of the M4 but I game it because the dispersion is so tight it's untrue. Fractionally shorter on course than my old 17 M2 however but it's hard not to hit it straight.

 

I've noticed on the odd mishit the ball is still in play when I'm expecting it to be death. Trouble is it's hard to trust for lots of players, especially those with much higher SS. If a club does something you're not expecting it puts you off. The vast majority of players I know didn't test it on course so they couldn't quantify the results or visualise what this bizarre ball flight would actually mean.

 

I tested it over three rounds and the first mishit I'd thrown the club thinking that's three off the tee but the flight changed and it held on. Playing partners were puzzled, I couldn't explain it. So there is "something" to it but because it's not really measurable and involves taking a risk nobody is interested.

 

If it was dead straight everytime in dry ball testing or the vaunted "20 yards further" people would be all over it. The fact that the average Joe has to admit they don't hit it as well as they believe to accept it works isn't good marketing. It's not a positive that sells.

 

It'll get dropped this year I'd imagine same way Cobra did because it's not sexy, it's hard to measure and staying in play vs outdriving your mate is not something folk will ever pay for.

 

After that ramble point is I think it "works" but not in a way that sells units.

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Hopefully they get rid of the twist face. Tiger basically proved that to be total crap.

Tiger doesn't miss the centre of the face, his face to path is just off now and again. Twist face is meant to help on off centre hits (rubbish).

 

To be honest despite all the noise it seemed legit to me. Gear effect is acknowledged as being necessary, so a bit more gear effect cant be a bad thing. Trouble is people expected yards rather than inches in correction. It might be those odd occasions you find yourself in the semi rough, rather than long grass, when TF has done its thing ?

 

I posted similar observations in the other TM thread. For whatever reason, the M3/4 range has been a massive flop for TM.

 

I believe there IS something to Twistface though. I hate the looks of the M4 but I game it because the dispersion is so tight it's untrue. Fractionally shorter on course than my old 17 M2 however but it's hard not to hit it straight.

 

I've noticed on the odd mishit the ball is still in play when I'm expecting it to be death. Trouble is it's hard to trust for lots of players, especially those with much higher SS. If a club does something you're not expecting it puts you off. The vast majority of players I know didn't test it on course so they couldn't quantify the results or visualise what this bizarre ball flight would actually mean.

 

I tested it over three rounds and the first mishit I'd thrown the club thinking that's three off the tee but the flight changed and it held on. Playing partners were puzzled, I couldn't explain it. So there is "something" to it but because it's not really measurable and involves taking a risk nobody is interested.

 

If it was dead straight everytime in dry ball testing or the vaunted "20 yards further" people would be all over it. The fact that the average Joe has to admit they don't hit it as well as they believe to accept it works isn't good marketing. It's not a positive that sells.

 

It'll get dropped this year I'd imagine same way Cobra did because it's not sexy, it's hard to measure and staying in play vs outdriving your mate is not something folk will ever pay for.

 

After that ramble point is I think it "works" but not in a way that sells units.

 

Almost positive cobra still has the “twistface” tech on the drivers, they just don’t market it

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I find the m4 stupid straight as well

Ping G400 LST 11* Ventus Black TR 5x

Ping G400 3w 15.1* GD AD IZ 5x

Ping G400 7w 19.5* Ventus Red 6x 

Ping G425 4h 22* Blueboard HY 80x

Ping i210 6i & s55 7i - PW Steelfiber 110s

Ping Glide Wrx 49*, 54*, 59*ES, Tour W 64* SF 125s

EvnRoll ER9
 

 

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I tested the M4 today against the new Titleist TS series drivers. I was blown away by the straight flight and distance. My carry was easily 15 yards farther with the M4. I used the Tensei white in stiff flex. I know my Ping G400 Max might get the boot!!

Callaway AI Smoke Max 10.5* Diamana GT 60 S
Callaway AI Smoke Max 3W & 5W Tensei Blue 60 S

Ping G430 4H RDX Red 6.0

Mizuno JPX 923 HMP 5-GW DG 105S (bent 2* weak)
Cleveland RTX6 54 & 58*
TM Spider HB DB 34”

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I tested the M4 today against the new Titleist TS series drivers. I was blown away by the straight flight and distance. My carry was easily 15 yards farther with the M4. I used the Tensei white in stiff flex. I know my Ping G400 Max might get the boot!!

 

I'm gonna go ahead and say it was your swing / strike and not the driver. But, whatever floats ya boat!

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It was completely the driver. The M4 clearly was a better fit for me out of the two. Like all equipment nowadays, if it's a better fit, it performs better. It's all great equipment if it fits YOUR swing. No matter what brand it is it can be fit optimally for your swing and everybody here knows that.

Callaway AI Smoke Max 10.5* Diamana GT 60 S
Callaway AI Smoke Max 3W & 5W Tensei Blue 60 S

Ping G430 4H RDX Red 6.0

Mizuno JPX 923 HMP 5-GW DG 105S (bent 2* weak)
Cleveland RTX6 54 & 58*
TM Spider HB DB 34”

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Hopefully they get rid of the twist face. Tiger basically proved that to be total crap.

Tiger doesn't miss the centre of the face, his face to path is just off now and again. Twist face is meant to help on off centre hits (rubbish).

 

To be honest despite all the noise it seemed legit to me. Gear effect is acknowledged as being necessary, so a bit more gear effect cant be a bad thing. Trouble is people expected yards rather than inches in correction. It might be those odd occasions you find yourself in the semi rough, rather than long grass, when TF has done its thing ?

 

I posted similar observations in the other TM thread. For whatever reason, the M3/4 range has been a massive flop for TM.

 

I believe there IS something to Twistface though. I hate the looks of the M4 but I game it because the dispersion is so tight it's untrue. Fractionally shorter on course than my old 17 M2 however but it's hard not to hit it straight.

 

I've noticed on the odd mishit the ball is still in play when I'm expecting it to be death. Trouble is it's hard to trust for lots of players, especially those with much higher SS. If a club does something you're not expecting it puts you off. The vast majority of players I know didn't test it on course so they couldn't quantify the results or visualise what this bizarre ball flight would actually mean.

 

I tested it over three rounds and the first mishit I'd thrown the club thinking that's three off the tee but the flight changed and it held on. Playing partners were puzzled, I couldn't explain it. So there is "something" to it but because it's not really measurable and involves taking a risk nobody is interested.

 

If it was dead straight everytime in dry ball testing or the vaunted "20 yards further" people would be all over it. The fact that the average Joe has to admit they don't hit it as well as they believe to accept it works isn't good marketing. It's not a positive that sells.

 

It'll get dropped this year I'd imagine same way Cobra did because it's not sexy, it's hard to measure and staying in play vs outdriving your mate is not something folk will ever pay for.

 

After that ramble point is I think it "works" but not in a way that sells units.

 

Almost positive cobra still has the “twistface” tech on the drivers, they just don’t market it

 

Possibly, which is my point. It didn't sell five years ago and it won't sell now. Tell people what they want to hear. That's the road to massive sales.

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I had similar results to Bladehunter. I went to my local AG store on saturday morning. I had a g400 max but hated the sound so it had to go. Having had an M4 earlier this season and liking the looks and sound I decided I was going back to get another. The only reason I sold my M4 was that low strikes on the face felt horrendous and didn't perform at all for me. I asked to try the M4, M3, Cobra F8 and the Rogue. I dont hit demo drivers as i want to buy the one i hit so i asked him to grab each off the rack 10.5° with the stock stiff shaft and tape the faces up on them. I hit the M4, M3 and Cobra all very similar. Good strikes getting out to around 255 yards carry. I'd decided on the M4 due to price and performance was as good as the others... I then remembered id not hit the Rogue. First swing with it carry was 272 yards which was the best of the session. I'd had a 267 with the M4. The next couple of swings were high 260s and low 270s again. Then i hit one right out of the bottom, it felt like a total miss hit really low on the face. Carry was mid 250s which was up with the good strikes of the cobra and M drivers. At this point I tried the M4 again and was getting high 250s to mid 260s with it. I'd decided I preferred the looks of the M4 over the Rogue and it was £100 cheaper so i was willing to sacrifice a few yards... but then I picked the Rogue up again, First one went 279 carry, next 276, next 277... low mishit 256... I had to bite the bullet and buy the Rogue. It's the best performing driver I've ever hit. I've struggled with Callaway drivers for a while as i found them to be hook machines. I played in the comp an hour after buying the Rogue and shot -1. I hit 9 out of 13 fairways with it. The few misses were first cut with only one finding the long stuff.

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  • 2 months later...

I wonder if TM will come out with crazy yellow/green colors like Cobra and Callaway are doing.

 

I sure hope not. That color scheme is a deal breaker for me no matter if I carry the ball 5-10 yards further. Terrible color scheme in my mind by Callaway. At least Cobra is offering the Avalanche White which looks sexy. Maybe Callaway will offer another color scheme as well. One can dream!

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I would like to the same driver with an all black crown and the TP LOGO out on the crown toe. Yeah baby.

 

Wk

Titleist TSR3 Diamana White Stiff

TM Stealth2 Plus 3, 5Wood Ventus Black TR 7S

Titleist T200U 2 and 3 iron Mitsubishi Tensei Whte 8S 

Titleist T100 4-PW AMTWhite S

Vokey SM10 50, 54, 58  AMT White

Scotty Super Select NP (ordered)

Scotty Tour Rat

PROV1 Left Dash

 

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I would like to the same driver with an all black crown and the TP LOGO out on the crown toe. Yeah baby.

 

Wk

 

I miss the old TP logo...

 

You would think they’d bring it back sooner or later. Here’s to hoping it’s this year!

 

I heard rumors that the TP logo is dead. Evidently, the new brass at TM do not like it...

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Pretty sure it will have a twistier face

Twistier face that goes 17 yards longer?!

 

rocket twist.

Driver: Paradym 3D Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood: Paradym 3d Ventus black TR 7x

19 degree UW: Ventus black TR 8x

Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility Hazrdus black 90 6.5 X

5 -PW: Callaway Apex MB, KBS $ taper 130X

Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

Putter- Mutant Wilson Staff 8802 with stroke lab shaft
BALL; Chrome Soft X

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I'm looking forward to see what the TM driver line up looks like this season. I seem to get along with their drivers. However, they haven't improved on the m2 yet, imo. Both the 2016 m2 and 2017 m2 still rule the roost for me, with the 2016 being slightly better. I have 2016 and 2017 tour issue heads that I rotate in the bag. Honestly not sure I'll make a change this season either, unless they are big time. I did own a g400 max and g400 LST this season, but they couldn't unseat the m2s. I really like the g400 lst- it's right in there with the m2s- so I still have it. The max didn't impress me as much. For me, maybe it was a touch more forgiving, but was shorter than the others, due to higher spin....

Callaway Paradym Triple 💎 10.5* Ventus Blue 6X/TR 6S
Titleist TSR2 16.5* (Set to 15.75*) Tour AD DI 7S
Titleist TSR2 18* Hybrid Tour AD IZ 85S
Titleist u505 4i (21*) Tour AD DI 95S

Srixon Zx7 MK II 5-PW, 51* AW - Modus 105S
Callaway Jaws 56*-Jaws Full Toe 60*-  DG 115 TI S200

Toulon Garage Custom Las Vegas H7 35”

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It does lead to a good question. TM ruled the metal woods roost for at least the last 10-12 years. Checking with my local stores (big box chains), the big winners the last two years were Callaway and Ping.

 

Do you guys think this is a temporary blip, or is TM in a bit of trouble - they definitely have to find some way to recapture mind-share.

 

Big box stores all removing Callaway #1 driver signage...

New Bag in the making...

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2016 M2 driver and fairway were the best clubs they have made. Low spin. Set up perfect. Wish I still had mine.

 

I’m still playing my 2016 M2 driver. I’ve debated on giving the G400 max a whirl but haven’t yet. I have a buddy that is a touch longer than me and he hit some pretty drives with his 2016 M1. He has a Rogue now and I’m right there with him or past him a fair amount of the time. I told him he needs to go back to the old M1.

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Whatever TM does do, they need to do something big because I just could not get M4 woods or driver to be as fast as Rogue. I'll admit, I liked the sound/feel better... but a few hits that I pumped with M4, just did not have the speeds that Rogue was getting me.

 

Now that they are owned by a different company, I really wonder the direction they'll be taking over the next 2-5 years. With companies like Cobra, Srixon and even Mizuno releasing really good offerings, they have their work cut out. It may not be enough to just toss millions of dollars at PR and marketing and hope people buy in.

 

 

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2016 M2 driver and fairway were the best clubs they have made. Low spin. Set up perfect. Wish I still had mine.

 

I’m still playing my 2016 M2 driver. I’ve debated on giving the G400 max a whirl but haven’t yet. I have a buddy that is a touch longer than me and he hit some pretty drives with his 2016 M1. He has a Rogue now and I’m right there with him or past him a fair amount of the time. I told him he needs to go back to the old M1.

M2 may go down as one of the best of its era but as a prior M2 owner I can tell you 100% that newer offerings are better on miss hits. If you hit center or at least high toe all the time, don't bother switching. But if you have any low hits or anything even >2mm heel of center... look into new stuff. The Srixon 785 blows the M2 away on ball speeds below the center line, so did G400.

 

 

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